The AM Forum

I just received my order of electrolytics from JustRadios to recap my Valiant. Now I am hearing that others have received very substandard parts from these folks; ie imported from China. Has anyone else had problems?

I am now hesitant to install these caps. I'll check the branding when I get home, but they're black with silver/gray writing.

I don't want to damage something that will be very difficult to replace by a self-destructing "new" part.

Philip
KA4KOE

IF they dont have a brand name on them or have some phoney name such as "Wong Fat Pyrotechnics Ltd"  then Id use them at half voltage in an old radio ;D  Those are likely rejects sold out the back door before the plastic skins are put on and Wong Fat has his own made or the "universal" black/gray and blue/black that mimic the major brands. 

Stick to well known name brands from major distributors and not basement, garage and hamfest operations.  Even top brands such as Nichicon and Panasonic are being counterfeited by the Chinese sweat shops while the big distributors and their suppliers have QC on site and in the US.

Hams are known suckers for "Cheap is best". Next they will be buying knockoff tires and maybe remove themselves from the gene pool ;D
You want to see some of the sorriest examples of humanity, go to Dayton ::)

Carl

That's probably another good reason not to go.

I went with 630V rating on the larger ones from the listed 450V in the manual due to my solid stating the HV supply.

Philip

If I was doing work for paying customers, or for my most valuable/historic radios, I might pay top dollar for top dollar brands.

However, I have made a habit of checking each of their components as I install them, and they have been very tight on tolerances.  I haven't had any problems with their products.   

Just Radios has a reputation to uphold and I've found their customer service to be excellent.  If they we selling shoddy products, I think we would hear about it quickly given the tight knit restorer community.  (I know Carl says he has had two or three failures).

Nonetheless, buy whatever product gives you peace and happiness. ;)

a few more points:

-Just Radios has increasingly been listing the manufacturer names for their lines.

-Even bargain brand components are probably going to be more reliable than 50-75 year components.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

Keep in mind there are other quality types of filter, coupling, and bypass caps out there.

Non-electrolytics are making great strides in miniaturization, cost, and usability.

Remember, at one time most pro gear used paper-in-oil caps in HV applications.

These are new production, and I have used them and been very happy...install & forget.

51uF @ 1.5kV $39:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/51-F-1500-V-DC-SCR-SOLEN-NEW-Polypropylene-MKP-Audio-Capacitor-211-845-GM70-/261195457835?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd076652b

33uF @ 400V $5:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Solen-33uF-400V-MKP-FastCap-film-capacitors-/281092382458?pt=US_Speaker_Parts_Components&hash=item4172695efa

Various types and sources:

http://eis.apitech.com/power_film_capacitors.asp

http://www.ecicaps.com/pdf/capacitors/pt12-series-polypropylene-plastic-film-wrap-epoxy-end-fill-type.pdf

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?dsNav=Ntk:Primary|Polypropylene+capacitors|3|&mkwid=sjHf0BsAk&pcrid=20346933139&pkw=polypropylene%20capacitors&pmt=p&gclid=CJnOp6rA0rYCFSU6Qgod6wQA3Q

http://www.specap.com/

Some will undoubtedly chime in and say this is foolish to go to such diligence ferreting out the 'good stuff'.  Oh well, make your own call here.

73DG

Well, I have used JustRadio parts for several years now without incident.  I do check each part but have never found a "reject".

I realize it is just another opinion but the parts have always worked fine.

The service has been excellant and the only complaint I have is that Canadian customs seems to guarantee that the shipment takes a week longer than necessary to Oregon.  Plan accordingly.

Tom

I have been using JustRadio for parts for a long time,no problems ever.for an extra 2.00 they ship airmail, much faster.

The caps are all MIECs, which I understand are very good.

Philip

Mouser and Digikey are the only two I use for any caps.
Antique Electronic Supply in AZ. sells very expensive high voltage caps that were questionable. I had one fail.  A multi-unit @ 500vdc failed in a stereo tube amp with only 2 years of use. The seal blew loose and steam and crap spewed inside the amp.

Just Radios of Scarborough ON used to just accept order payment in US funds up to a few years ago, but apparently they have changed that now.

I can find the name brand caps over the counter in the Greater Toronto area, so I've never had to think about dealing with them, the $7.90 shipping charges and the $20 minimum order amount.
If I had to mail order, I would go with Electrosonic, Digikey or Mouser.

Al VE3AJM

Be cheap and pay the price. Excellent electrolytic capacitors are readily available and at low cost with much better characteristics than the old parts that you are replacing. Why even consider any brand outside of the major manufacturers?

Buy from Newark, Mouser, DigiKey and other reputable elctronics parts supplier. I find that named brand parts are often as cheap as junk parts from small ham business stores.

Just Radio is not one of the above. They can't buy reputable capacitor much,  if any,  cheaper than you can.

The world of electonics parts is not like it used to be. There are no parts jobbers in every town, because there is no market for them. There is no electronic repair market, only OEM outside of an extremely small hobby business for repairing vintage equipment.

Hate to say it - but if its a predominately Ham Radio business - I would not buy electronic parts from them outside of NOS old parts. I go with a large national parts house.


I had the same problem mentioned above with a $34 Antique Electronics Supply cap for a Dynaco Mark 3 amp. Failed in a few weeks and made a mess. Should have re-stuffed the can with mini high temp Panasonics or Chemicons. These guys are small potatoes and stock what they can get - often surplus and rejects.


N4LTA

I wonder why your "MIEC" caps are not listed on their web site?

http://www.frc-cap.com/

Carl

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?dsNav=N:4294943785-4294887054-4294943829-4294959544

They are

http://www.justradios.com/axialelectrolytics.html

I was stating they are NOT even mentioned on MIEC's site. Plus no reputable large distributor carries them, just one of the audiofools. Maybe Wong Fat strikes again?? It seems audiofools and the antique radio crowd are real suckers for low quality crap anyway.

Carl

"What" are not mentioned on Miec's site?

You are being too spare with your words, which makes your partial statements totally unclear, Carl.   bill

Bill,
It is perfectly clear to the OP which is what counts  ;D  ::)

If you need to know what is going on read the OP's Valiant thread.

Carl

Ok guys. This thread is going nowhere. Let's move on.

Bottom line is pretty simple:

Don't buy caps that are store branded, don't buy caps made by small companies, don't buy caps that are named "Orange Dips", don't buy caps that look like Cornell Dublier 100s but aren't labeled Cornell Dublier, Don't buy caps that are called Orange Drops but that are not made by Vishay. Don't buy electrolytic caps that are rated 630 volts - that is not a normal  standard voltage.


Don't buy caps from radio, ham, audio, or guitar amp stores unless they are name brand.

Buy caps from Mouser, Allied, Arrow, Newark, or Digikey.  If you want really good one - get the ones rated at 105 degree C or better.

If you buy the other stuff, don't come around looking for an OK - they can be anything - Maybe good - likely bad


N4LTA

Wow, this is really helpful. Incredibly helpful.

Unfortunately there are more counterfeit, re-branded seconds, and look alike components showing up.   I first noticed some of these components being sold by big vendors at hamfests nearly 10 years ago but I expect the problem has grown with increasing growth of the number of manufacturing sites in Asia.  I stick with Mouser for just about everything, Fair Radio and Max Gain Systems for surplus/industrial parts, and I have bought a few stuffed electrolytic cans from Hayseed Hamfest. 

As N4TLA noted buy the 105 degree rated caps; they aren't much more.  Also note that some of the more compact electrolytic caps are NOT rated for high ripple service but that is the typical environment found in much of our gear.  These low ripple service caps may appear OK but will heat excessively in high ripple service; "energy storage" caps are one example where a cap run at well below its voltage rating will fail in normal service.   

Re-labeled components are nothing new and there was a great article in the 1950s detailing the cooperative investigation conducted by the security departments of several of the major tube makers which resulted in the conviction of a tube re-brander who was buying duds and seconds for both warranty return and resale.

Folks:

A slightly different story....

From Mouser, I bought some Panasonic EEU series caps to replace some 20 year old Sprague 502 series caps in a piece of equipment.  I used a cap checker and found that many of the new Panasonic caps measured lower than marked capacity, while the 20 year old Spragues were just fine. So I did not replace the old caps. Note the Panasonic caps from Mouser did not have a Panasonic logo or marking, and I checked the Panasonic web site for an image match-they looked the same as on their web page. I think that Panasonic is buying their caps from someone else.

Dan

What did Mouser have to say? Ive never seen a Panasonic cap without their name.

Also what was the tolerance spec and did it measure within it?

Carl

I am sure that Mouser would have replaced them. Panasonic is the brand name for Mashusita, one of the largest component manufacturers in the world. The large distributors will replace them if they don't meet specs. I have never seen a Panasonic cap without the name either.

Pat
N4LTA

All electrolytic caps replaced. This did NOT happen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCPXckfT-6g

Philip

Folks:

I have not taken the time to contact Mouser yet, and wonder if I will. The caps were a little low in value, within a standard -20%, +80% variance. From my memory, I think they were something like 42uf out of a rated 47uf. The markings on the caps matched the Panasonic data sheet, but neither the cap or the datasheet show that the cap having a Panasonic logo. To me, I wonder if Panasonic is buying generic caps. The original 20 year old Sprague cap had more capacity than the new Panasonics at the same published value. I get the feeling the old caps may eb manufactured with a tighter window than the new Panasonic caps.

Hope this clears up some confusion.

Dan

Modern caps are usually +/- 20% as the standard with 10% available; construction is different than the old Atoms which go back to pre WW2 where you could blow a rectifier if you got the +80% one and were pushing the tube specs a lot.

After a couple of million caps produced on the low side of bogey the money adds up.

Carl

Go here to see what is available where and how much:

http://octopart.com/

73DG