The AM Forum

In case you missed the live web tour of W1AW back on 2/12/12, here it is in all its glory: http://www.awecast.tv/channels/arrl/
Where are those AM operators  ???


I hope this isn't the antenna farm!!

(http://www.quick-tech-news.com/images/wiring/crazy-wiring-4.jpg)

sure just thow a wire and tune it in with the tuner!   :D

Watching that video you'd never know there was a vintage AM station to operate.

Impressive none the less.

Yeah who wants to see all that other stuff.

Where's the AM ?

The first part is not even a video. It's a slide show.

Get me some wholesome AM sound and glowing vacuum tube MOTION PICTURE footage.

Bah !

What exactly do they show?

Does W1AW look the way it did in the photos on the cover of my 1970 operating guide?  There's a montage of black and white photos of W1AW--interior photos; not antennas. 

The ham station shown in those photos has the slightly eerie look of a historic home on exhibit, in some place like Colonial Williamsburg.   Racks of gear, looking like they are never actually operated, are shown in between floor to ceiling curtains.  Men in suits and ties, looking obviously posed for the camera, are shown twiddling knobs but they look as if they have never operated a radio transmitter before.   No one who operates a rig does so by bending over at the waist with an arm extended holding a knob between thumb and forefinger as if he were daintily arranging a flower in a vase.   

Some rigs are recessed in desk panels angled slightly so the operator, a man wearing a tie and jacket pretending to speak into a microphone, can look down at them and out over the desk.    I can't get over the curtains.  I wonder if they automatically come out on ceiling tracks to surround and cover the gear following the end of every transmission.  Maybe they're there to hide the rigs when the FCC shows up.   ;D   "Nothing to see here fellas; just some curtains..."

Did the link not work for you?  Maybe you had the same reaction I did -- the site makes you suffer with the video, in that you cannot fast forward by grabbing the crawl marker to move it along.

I gave up after the uninteresting parts.

Years past, the ARRL abandoned the use of hammy hambone gear for its broadcasts on 7290 and elsewhere, and went commercial like so many of the AM community, in their case with some pretty good Harris (Harris-Intertype is a descendant of Gates Radio) equipment.  

It replaced the sort of thing you described, with a lot of it behind sliding glass doors like you would use to your back porch.

Carcia, who is kin to one of our friends on here, was told never to run the gear on AM as part of the ARRL broadcasts on 7290Kc.   That directive came from Dave Sumner, CEO-for-life in the administrative office (he's the station trustee). In fact, he once told me the transmitter wasn't capable of AM.  

It's probably all been replaced by now anyway.

Well of course for broadcasts, the ARRL can't lower themselves to use just any old ham rig driving an amplifier -- how ordinary.  

With Dave, I'm surprised there are any non-CW transmissions at all.

I never tried the link.  My ISP connection is so slow videos suck too much time and I refuse to pay Comcast $60/month; I'd rather spend that on radio stuff.

I'd like to see more behind the curtain. On the surface, it looks a real hodge-podge
of gear stacked in racks behind glass doors.  I'm sure there's some sense to the mess,
but a technical rundown of their main gear would have been interesting. Maybe
they did?  I feel asleep halfway through the presentation.

OK I watched the video. I had control of the slider and was able to skip around. The only thing I saw in there I would really lust after is the R&S transceiver. Harris amps were mentioned but I didn't see them. The MFJ amps were not that interesting, but I can see why they would not want to run AM on 6 bands for their broadcasts as there may not be enough power and or plate/collector dissipation or air conditioning to do it properly.

I thought there was going to be at least one operational vintage AM/CW station but maybe there is no room for that. It would be nice if visiting to have a CCS-rated legal limit AM station available.

(Has everyone sent their letters to representatives, c/o the ARRL, about HR607? )

When I toured W1AW about 30 years ago they had some boring commercial gear set up for code practice transmissions and guest use.  But when the staff member heard that I was into old radios, he showed me the retired big old black crinkle home-built transmitters stored down the basement. That's probably one of them int the background early in the video.  I bet the others are still down there.

Let's home someone with technology prejudice didn't scrap them out or rent a truck and haul them to a landfill.

 

Master Jeff, WA1MBK, the previous station manager, took me for a tour into the W1AW basement too. It was back around 1980? I think.  It was loaded with trays of old QSL cards and the black homebrew big rig racks.  A haunting environment to be sure.

However, there was an article in QST about cleaning out the cellar in prep for the W1AW renovations maybe 12 years ago?  They found a new-in-box Ranger kit and published that. They inferred much of the stuff was being moved out. Maybe they held on to some for the museum. W1AW Carcia would be the guy to axe about it.

T

For those that may or may not remember, here is the 2004 QST article installing the vinage AM station at W1AW: http://p1k.arrl.org/pubs_archive/105474

The ARRL also has a "Historical Committee" that has been engaged in ongoing projects for at least the last 6 to 8 years. Check the Board of Directors Meeting Minutes and look under "Committee Reports". Contacting the Chairperson might shed some light on the storage or disposition of some of the older equipment that was used and/or showcased in glass cases in the lobby years ago. It's also possible that some of the vintage equipment stored may have appeared in ARRL's annual on line auctions.

Joe Carcia seems to be a decent guy and has been around electronics for decades.. I doubt he would approve of trashing the stuff. Maybe auctioning it to find good homes. Would not hurt to ask on the other hand he's probably very busy.

I see in the file, a Valiant and NC300 looks like. That would be worth a spin! My problem is distance, it would be a looong drive. Myabe in a year or so, for a road trip.. LST-325, Fair radio, Mendelson's, Mock..

Have not been North of Virginia in a while and last time it was a flight to Teaneck New Jersey. That place was a was horrible experience. Bums and streetwalkers checking out the rental car as if it were a valuable item..

And it was totally ignored in the video! OH, they made sure the digi and contest modes were alive and well. ::)

When that amount of neglect continues to happen time and again it's no wonder many of us remain skeptics. (not to mention non-members)

Both activities are very popular with today's amateurs. "Modes" are just a position on a switch. Fuzzy logic 90's thinking that "AM" should be treated as a some sort of specialized or unique amateur radio activity. It isn't! It's a mode, no different then SSB or CW, and should not be awarded any "special" treatment or review. The only real neglect or sadness I see is the pervasive myopic thinking that many amateurs have towards the ARRL. But, as in real life, amateurs have choices; so, don't like the water; stay out of the pool. Many others are having fun in the pool.

Nice Troll job!  You could not be more wrong my friend--SSB is a mere mode of emission; CW, maybe vintage RTTY and definitely AM, are cultures and a way of life.  But go ahead and try to devalue AM as another plug and play mode if you want--good luck. 

 

I'm with ya, Buddly, some of the rulers in Newington are afraid of the water that includes the Tall Ships of AM, so they stay in the baby pool where the water is kinda hyellowee, ya know ?

Seems to me that folks like to keep AM presented as an "Old Timey" or "Vintage" mode.  Now it can be, but so can a lot of modes, except for the digital stuff. 

Frankly I think that's a disservice, AM is certainly NOT restricted to Vacuum Tubes and Crystal sets, it is certainly as main stream 21st century as anything else, just ask those Smug Flex Ops. :)

Mebbe, and now I'm just sayin', someone could do a nice AM focused, modern technology Flex or  Class E rig article for QST or the technical pub (I forget the name).  Show em how to process audio etc.  Show folks that putting out a good sounding strong signal on AM is in the realm of the modern home brewer.

that surely would dispel the Myth of Ancient Modulation being the realm of vacuum tubes and Old Buzzards, er, not that there's anything wrong with either of course.

SSB is AM where the transmitter is malfunctioning.
AM is SSB where the transmitter is amlfunctioning.

AM is a way of life where reverent and irreverent paths meet at many crossroads. It has devotees, pilgrims, acolytes, deacons, ministers, and high priests, some of whom have been industry giants and important government officials. It has rituals, incantations, decantations, many disciplines, weighty tomes of ancient knowledge, forbidden practices, two completely different types of 807's, and more secrets than you can shake a stick at. It has hot glass, cold steel, and warm iron. AM often has a color temperature between 900 and 4000 degrees K. Many forms of incense are burned by devout practicioners, Carbon and a Nichrome-sand mix being two of the most common while various dried forms of '-o-lene, a closely guarded mixture, are reserved for important occasions. Lately, black epoxy-like resins and flakes of impure Silicon have been found acceptably oderiferous. AM frightens some people a little at first and does no harm, but it drives those who are ignorant and self-important to a level of self-destructive wrath matched only by their own indolence and impotence. Sometimes a transmitter operator will feel the power. AM -is- the man behind the curtain. From time to time a larger transmitter may miraculously change Oil of Puissance into Oil of Brisance, with an internal annointing immediately to follow as proof. AM has blowers, but SSB has suckers.

I might make a poster out of these incantations and hang it next to the transmitter.  Thank you.

_{¹ CWA? perhaps huh-ha !}

Hmmm... wonder who wrote that?  Pretty slick.   With the reference to "olene" my guess is someone here in the northeast.

Yes, the man behind the "curtain"  [transmitter] indeed.   ;D

T

Fine prose.

A strapping creed !

All kidding aside, the same could be said for other modes and operating interests (QRP, contesting, etc.) AM is unique but so are other parts of the hobby. The snob approach will send more away from AM than it will attract.

I am among those who observed AM was not included in the video tour of W1AW. That omission alone can send people away from the ARRL, where the club otherwise had a chance to draw support. 

A subsequent comment on here defending the coverage of other modes and activities in that video prompted additional attention to the missed opportunity the video suffers against AM.

In my opinion, the proud, perhaps boisterous flag-waving for AM on here was a response, not an initial parry. That's hard to interpret as snobbishness.

Flag waving is fine. Statements like this come off a little snobbish to me.

AM is a way of life....

AM has blowers, but SSB has suckers.

SSB is a mere mode of emission; CW, maybe vintage RTTY and definitely AM, are cultures and a way of life.


Being trite and unnecessarily combative or inflammatory are not legitimate recruiting tools. It might make those of us already into AM feel better but looks silly and insular to outsiders. We can promote AM without putting down other modes or operating styles/tastes.

As for the ARRL, who cares? They represent a small minority of amateur radio. We can and have thrived without their help and will in the future of we play are cards right. You're not even a member, so why do you care?

That's not inflammatory or any of those other negative descriptions. It is called "humor". It was not a jab against the ARRL or anyone else. As for the ARRL I like the monthly magazine and find membership to have benefits not the least of which is access to articles.

We should all remember that disparaging remarks meant to be humorous, may be humorous to some, but may also be injurious or insulting to others.  Realistically, disparaging remarks should not be humorous to anyone.

I agree with the first part.

As to the second part, that's a good summary to question why an ARRL sub-page is on this site.  

The information on here is so miniscule as it relates to our part of the hobby that relevant postings could be better placed within the QSO section.

All this brings us back to the original point -- the people in Newington failed to include AM in the "web tour of W1AW," and that does not serve the constituents the club claims to represent.

I really don't read much from the ARRL.  I can buy old handbooks used pretty cheap and they are all I want. If they choose to 'ignore' AM, well, IF it bugged me that much, I would sign up and run for one of those director or whatever positions they have and then work to "fix" the organization from the inside.  Quite frankly, there's no good reason for any member based organization to listen to non-members, their constituents pay the dues and operating costs so they get first go. 

As for the rest, Honestly, The best way I can think of to 'promote' AM is to always be a first class operator. Be an AMbassador while on the air and at fests etc.  Encourage the new and inexperienced op with good old fashioned Elmering.  Nothing encourages participation like a group of folks obviously having a good time (most AM QSO's), and being openly friendly towards new comers (many but not all AMers). 

I know most folks mean well, but when a newbie flips the mode switch and breaks in, the last thing we should do is launch into a 20 minute dissertation about how bad his audio is, or what he really needs to do to make a good AM station (I've heard this exact scenario more than a few times).   Be kind and tolerant.

Amen. That approach is in sharp contrast to a conversation I heard recently on 75 AM where a casual mention of sideband immediately degenerated into "those idiots" and "slopbucketeers" .... nice  ::)  



Amen again.  As long as the station is audible, save the lecture.  Most folks want to improve their station and will do it on their own or solicit opinions at some point.  Ever walked into a restaurant for the first time and the staff you met made a bad impression ?  You probably said "well that sucked, I'm not coming back here again".  :)

The question of serving the constituents makes the devil's advocate and bean counters ask what % of constituents either use, or are interested, in AM?
I think those "curtains and glass doors" stations there can do AM whether they do it well or not. Their likely worry, if there is one, is if there is an amplifier on those SS transceivers, can it be used for AM and not explode in the hands of an inexperienced guest operator?

The other half of the question relates to keeping a vintage AM/CW station around, and how many constituents would even want to try using it. (By vintage, I mean plate modulated).

I want the ARRL to keep a decent plate modulated AM station around and I wanted them to show it on the video. It could also be used for CW, no doubt. I concede that some "show me how to work it" would be necessary for many guest operators and that would take W1AW staff time, but the benefits would outweigh the cost because it would give new people a hands-on experience they might not otherwise get. I'm paying dues, they ought to go for something cool, not just new snazzy stuff.

Someone posted previously that when they asked to use the old AM station, they were asked questions about their qualifications to do so. That should not offend anyone.

The fail on the video is that they did not show the old station (assuming it still exists). I would have at least rather seen the setup in the basement, and am not offended by a lack of curtains and glass doors, or basements in general. Maybe the thing to do is ask them to include it in the next revision of the video or to do a few takes and edit it in.

I'm sure it's no fun repairing that Valiant when a guest op forgets or isn't familiar with how to run it.

Maybe Pete can make up some laminated cheat sheets?

That seems like a fine idea, and send a couple of them to Mr. Carcia!

How would one mistake-proof a transmitter like that? Too small for spark gaps isn't it? Here's an idea for protecting the modulation transformer which is probably the most expensive thing in the rig.

A bridge rectifier across the mod trans secondary clamped by a series string of a 300 Ohm power resistor and stack of VR tubes or Zener diodes at 1.5x the plate voltage? It would only need a few of the devices if the 150v ones were chosen. The resistor would limit current to about 225mA peaks.

If the secondary peak voltage is normally a +/-  B+ swing, so about +/-650V, the 900-1000V clamp would never conduct in normal operation, only when the modulator was unloaded and the transformer secondary swung too far either way like when the RF stage was drawing little or no current. It need not be invasive using 5KV test lead wire out the back, there is always a hole or two, or just put it inside.

That arrangement could even be optically coupled via a series lamp to a photocell to flash an indicator at the staff console so the staffer would know the guest was having technical difficulties with the rig.

Just my abstract idea of the week.

Maybe it is just one of a wide variety of choices we have as an amateur radio operator, but those who choose AM as one of their primary operating modes have long and clearly demonstrated a greater tendency than those who mostly operate the "popular" modes, to build, modify and service their own equipment, display knowledge and curiosity about the technical facets of radio and interest in how their station equipment works; IOW one of three¹ basic divisions of the fundamental essence of amateur radio:

§97.1 Basis and purpose.-

The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.


This is not to suggest that AM enthusiasts have any sort of monopoly on these facets of AR. But compare the overall percentage of AMers who show interests in those areas to that of the mainstream AR community.  Now, compare the percentage of AMers to that of the mainstream AR community, of those whose status as an AR operator is essentially that of a "consumer"; i.e. whose activity beyond on-the-air communication is limited to purchasing toys from AES and HRO, and whose conversations over the air regarding station hardware, are dominated by what's in the ads, the latest products, and personal experiences with retail sales, commercial products and factory/retail repair service.

As AMers, we are one of the remaining vestiges of the original, fundamental essence of amateur radio. Of course, anyone with a modern day transceiver can turn the mode switch to AM, and some can put out pretty good sounding AM signals.  But does merely turning a control knob on a black-box make one a genuine "AMer"?

There is no clearer manifestation of the overall decline in technical interest and expertise in the mainstream amateur community (despite the decades-old promises of Incentive Licensing), than the decision by the League to move most of the in-depth technical topics out of QST and into a speciality publication, available only as an additional paid subscription even for full members.


¹ The other two would be emergency communications and international good-will.

I wonder if they'd do a video or photo shoot of Joe taking his donations back home? ::)

?

The Question Mark (Polygonia interrogationis) is a North American nymphalid butterfly.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Question_Mark_Polygonia_interrogationis_Wings_3008px.jpg/220px-Question_Mark_Polygonia_interrogationis_Wings_3008px.jpg)

And then there is this Question Mark:

(http://www.96tears.net/littleQ2.jpg)

I'm sure someone will figure out how to weave the post into the W1AW web tour video.

Let's get rid of this website.  It's giving AM "'special' treatment."  Or maybe just turn it into something called QSO.com or CQ.com where folks can flame each other on how to put on a PL-259. 

 

As you know there are plenty more fault conditions on a Valiant beside the crummy mod xfmr being unloaded. Your solution would most likely confound the average repair person although it might work well.

How many people can walk in off the street ant tune a Valiant without reading the manual?

Even some hard core AMers would be scratching their heads.

?

I could :)   but then it's been my AM mainstay for 10 yrs (Oh-My-God!).

and...

How soon some forget!

I wonder if they'd(ARRL) do a video or photo shoot of Joe (Walsh) taking his donations (A.M. Station) back home?

They really used the PR generated when the donation happened. Then this video comes out and there's no sign of it.

I really didn't think I'd hafta explain the post. :-\

Hello Ladies and Gents.

I'm an old AM'er but new to here. I'd like to add to this old thread one tid-bit of information; or two...or three.

I was there when the "Tour of W1AW" was recorded. It was a live webcast. The reason why Joe Walsh's AM station was not shown was because of logistics. At the time, the AM station was located on top of Hiram P. Maxims very own roll top desk, in the foyer of W1AW: a place of great honor! This desk is located in the the area where the video started. Tucked in front of the desk and AM equipment was lighting equipment, cables, and many other trip hazards. In order for the camera person to do their job, the camera movement had to be unimpeded as no editing was possible for a live webcast. We had to bend to the production companies wishes during this session; there was no practical way around it.

May I please ask all who read this forum that the ARRL does not disregard AM these days. In fact, it celebrates it. Now, how can I qualify myself as saying this fact? Please read on.

After 28 years as a TV BC Engineer, I became the Test Engineer for Product Review at the ARRL Lab in April of 2008. At no time in my relatively new career have I ever encountered any anti-AM sentiment. Besides myself, there are others staff members in the building who operate AM. What is really important to me is, the ARRL Board of Directors have supported my efforts in creating a nice vintage radio exhibit in the ARRL Laboratory. I invite all AM'er to please visit it.

Inside the exhibit, is Joe Walsh's equipment. I wrote Joe to tell him about or new exhibit too. The Johnson Valiant and the National NC-303 is an active display and is put on the air by me and by visitors to Headquarters from time to time. Naysayers, pleae rad on.

Unfortunately, the AM station, while at W1AW, was not used by visitors. It had always been available for use, but very few AM'ers ever showed up to use it. It was my idea to move this equipment to our new exhibit (a small museum) where in a very comfortable environment, the station could be used by vistors to the Lab, under the callsign, W1INF. In this location, the station is now used by me and other staff members occasionally. There have also been visitors to the Lab who have enjoyed putting this station on the air too. I have created an atmosphere where when you close the doors to the museum while inside, you have a hard time determining what year you're in as there are no modern references (except for the modern coax switch for the three operating positions). This exhibit could not have been completed without the support of the management and Board of Directors.

Please consider this good news. Please consider myself as someone who is dedicated to the hobby and dedicated to the preservation of the history of Amateur Radio. As I said, our Board is also committed to this too and we now have an active Historcal Committee, which I am staff liaison to.

I would like to ask all of you to come visit the Lab and, please, let's move forward. What has happened in the past with the ARRL and AM is a memory and is not of solid form. Come see our solid AM station and enjoy it. It's real and it's there, for all of us to use.

I've been a ham since '74 and an AM'er since 1980. Remeber that guy in Glastonbury, CT, in a barn with his ARC-5's? I used to operate Collins equipment then; 75A1, 75A4, 32-V3, + 6 meter AM. Today, at my home in Coventry, I have my ARC-5's still, a TCS set, DX-100, Johnson Ranger, Gonsets G-28 and G-50, lunchboxes galore....I can go on; please do not consider this bragging; I'm only qualifying myself. I get on infrequently, due to my many committments these days, one of which is as a Board Member of the Vintage Radio and Communications Museum of Connecticut, of which is a volunteer positon. Come by Saturdays; I am also a volunteer tour guide. 

Comon all you old buzzards! Come to the Lab and visit, please.

Bob Allison
WB1GCM

Thanks for the post, Bob.
It is appreciated.

Oh -- and your credentials are FB OM --

(http://www.arrl.org/images/view/Technology/ham_shack_012a__2_.jpg)

Hey Bob, Welcome aboard. Happy to have you as a member. Now if you can get RFI back here too, we can all dance around the technical tree.

Is this the small museum you mentioned in your text. I'm trying to picture where in the building this is:

(http://www3.arrl.org/nl/al/image/AndreaLabMuseum.JPG)

The "museum" is located right off the Lab. Imagine you're entering the main entrance to the Lab; it's at the first door on the left, which was formerly used to store our parts and extra lab test equipment. In 2011, we had to have our floor replaced in the Lab. Unfortunately, the floor tiles contained asbestos, which meant a full abatement with men in spacesuits. Once completed, we condensed the parts etc., and moved them into our machine shop, leaving this new room open for a new display of vintage test gear and Amateur Radio related equipment.

The BoD liked the idea and financed the antique furniture (Mallard's Nest Antiques in West Stafford, CT), oriental rugs (cheap at Ocean State Job Lot). We have three operating positions; a really old spark station from 1907 (not on an antenna, but it sparks!), the Joe Walsh station and an average Novice station of the late 60's. Also in the museum is a Collins 75A4 (serial number ONE) and other gear we all know of and love. Interestingly enough, we have Major Edwin Armstrong's Super Regen Receiver prototype and one of three Oscar 1 satellites built in 1961. (One went into space, the other at the Smithsonian and ours transmits "HI" too). There going to be more items removed from storage soon; so it should get interesting. We also converted our old chemical etching room into a restoration room, which has a sink, vented paint booth and metal storage racks.

BTW Joe and I checked out the W1AW basement during my last visit. There was still a bunch of stuff down there but mostly rice boxes from the past. He told me the fire dept. was bugging them to clear it out. I know a bunch of the rigs went on epay. I think they found the Ranger before my visit.

Hello all, I can vouch for Bob GCM's AM credentials, having shared countless 6M  AM QSO's, some 75M, and gallons of Spaten Dark. I think we got 10 miles and more out of his converted CB 1 watt 29.0Mhz walkie talkie on various occations too. I will put in a plug for Joe Carcia as well, we go back to before he was licensed.

...........Larry

I'd give it a whirl, but it would be a long drive! It's up to you yankees to use that station!

The lines blur. Out here on the fringe of civilization, vintage SSB is much like AM, with nice, long QSOs, no VOX, plenty of technical expertise, great stories, a comraderie just like the AMers, and yes, two types of 807s. The only thing different is the audio stinks and of course, the signals hold up better.

Indeed, I hear the same exact people on Wednesday night on 3870 AM and on Tuesday night on 3895 vintage SSB. They just sound better on Wednesday, louder on Tuesday.