The AM Forum

There is a net that meets at or around (I think - now I can't remember exactly - maybe someone will help me!) 3835kHz on Sunday mornings called "The AM Carrier Net".  Anyway, I checked into the end of it yesterday...

Some guy on SSB was mildly harassing the net telling everyone to "go back to the AM window" and that the net is violating a "gentleman's agreement" and so on.

Ok, first of all we can operate AM anywhere we want and the SSBers can do the same.  We all know that.... but that's not the issue at hand.

Anyway, I engaged the rather agitated "gentleman" about this, and stated that the "windows" (such as the "DX window" or others) are there to protect the users of the window from incompatible activity and not the other way around.  For instance, I pointed out that many people work DX outside of the "DX window", but that people (by agreement) do not conduct casual local QSOs or nets within the  "DX window" - even though it is perfectly legal from an FCC rules standpoint to do so.

Further went on to say that the "AM window" is the same - it is there to "protect" (so to speak) the AMers from other incompatible modes such as CW and SSB, but AM activity (like DX) is not confined to the "window".

The rest of the band is "unallocated space", and available for any legal mode or activity.  There are probably other "windows" as well.

I have certainly heard these sort of comments from SSBers in the past, and have put forth the same answer.  The "Window" is there for the benefit of the AM stations (or DX operators, etc.) and is not there to restrict the "protected" activity solely to the confines of the window.  The SSB guy sure didn't like THAT answer  ;)

C'mon Steve how long have you been licensed now?  Variations of this "back of the bus" sniping have been around ever since SSB's struggle for acceptance.

Not to mention that there never really has been an AM window or any gentlemen's agreement. Those are/were figments of fertile imaginations.

What was the name of your site again HX Steve ;D

Exactly - the site exists in the virtual world, not the real world.

Those going around beating their chest about defending the AM window need to get a life.

How about  "AM Oasis on 75?"  ...  ;)    I can price out turbans with custom call letters.

ChannelMasters get to wear the more elaborate garb:

T

Radio Rug Merchants.

Pure nonsense, and a moot point to anyone not into operating AM or being boxed in to a small sliver of spectrum. These SSB folks have taken your argument for a protected AM area to heart, and expect you to use it, not use the rest of the band. It's a losing argument, along the lines of referring to AM as a 'Specialty' or 'Legacy' mode. Such things paint us into a corner and do nothing but long term harm at the expense of some false sense of security or ownership.


And many of us who don't agree certainly wish you'd preface these responses with "I prefer.." or "some of us prefer this approach" rather than in a way that would speak for the entire mode. My understanding is that it was simply a place to likely find AM activity.

I recently heard one of the regulars on 3870 lecturing the SSBers by saying "We only use this small part of the band, you guys have all the rest of it to use, to stay away from here". Thanks, but if you want to confine yourselves to a box, by all means - feel free to do so. But don't presume to speak for the rest of us, please. The AM Window obviously appealed to someone feeling the need for frequency ownership, the same as it does to the 'I have a net here' crowd/mentality. It has never been respected in the nearly 30 years I've been licensed. Just listen up there most any night.

As long as such things are propagated, these conflicts will continue. Jesse Jackson is living proof.  ;)

Well there's a law of unintended consequences that I broke with "Specialty."  
(The word "Legacy" is an insult and I've never used it in a favorable way.)

For years I tried to portray AM as a specialty because it seemed to accomplish two things -- a distinctive interest group within the hobby, and  deserving of consideration on a par with other such specialties like Dog-Xray, Contesting, and CW.

But yes, for the same reasons Todd and Steve both have repeated here today, it painted my characterization into a corner, where expectations were such that AM was supposed to be in a certain area, and certainly not generally distributed among the "mainstream" modes and activities.  Back of the bus syndrome.

So out the window went that idea, as far as I was concerned, and I also discarded the notion of constraining our part of the hobby to certain spots on the dial.  There was little payoff, and plenty of risk from an "AM Window" that was supposed to be a goodwill gesture of coordinating our mode and activity with those that are incompatible.

It's much better for us, and more consistent with how the FCC views us, to NOT consider our part of the hobby any different than the other modes and activities available to us.

AM now is doing the same as SSB did in the late 40's - early 50's, enroaching on the majority mode as it continues to grow.

At some point the ARRL will demand (bribe) FCC restricted bandwidths as they forced on AM rig manufacturers starting in the late 40's. Listen to the difference between a bone stock HT-9 and any Heath, Johnson, Collins, etc.

At the other end of the dial there are QRP and digi modes all clamoring for more of the general CW segment.

Carl

Precisely. Wasn't meaning to point fingers Paul. Mainly saying what you've summed up: we do better being seen as just another, accepted mode, without special privileges. Steve's confrontation is more proof of the folly of trying to seem different, better, protected, or whatever else.

Think how ticked off the CW-preferrers would be if their favorite mode were referred to in a way that indicated it was not mainstream or that it was somehow 'less' because is is older. I feel like that about AM. It is not antiquated or lesser. It takes more skill in most cases to do it right.


"At some point the ARRL will demand (bribe) FCC restricted bandwidths"

There was some gibberish proposed to the FCC trying to do something like ^that ^ not too long ago. The FCC didn't seem to be fooled at the time and most comments were against the suggestion. Vigilance..

Unfortunately they fought that battle and lost when the FCC reapportioned the mode subbands on 80 and 40 to more accurately reflect levels of use.  it wasn't that the mode was older, just that it was, uh, more of a specialty than the amount of reserved space warranted.

It would not be surprising to see someone point to the "AM Windows" and say that's where we all ought to be, by regulation.  So I no longer persist in defending those areas.

Well, it wouldn't actually hurt to spread the AM Ghetto out over additional frequencies, particularly somewhere below 3800 and 7290, just to maintain more widespread AM presence on the bands, but I have to say that some of the AM guys are just as bad as the dead-air slopbucket groups when it comes to visions of frequency ownership.  I have heard AM stations actually break in and scold SSB operators who happened to start a QSO in what is perceived as the "AM Window". I am not talking about the 1875, 1868, 3892 and 3878 bunches and their ilk, but unsuspecting hams who just happened to find a clear spot and drop their riceboxes somewhere within the range of usual AM operating frequencies.

Not exactly the best way to win over the "hearts and minds" of the general amateur radio community.

To me, the concept of "AM Window" (or Ghetto if you prefer) is for our convenience.  More like the concept of "calling frequency" as stated in the ARRL band plan.  It gives us a spot in the band to listen where we will likely find AM activity, but any unused frequency in the phone band is fair game.  Sometimes, when the QSO I'm in accumulates 7-8 people, I move out and QSY to another spot to start a one-on-one QSO, or invite one or two members of the large QSO to QSY with me in cases where we  have something specific we want to discuss that wouldn't interest other members of the large group.  Sometimes I just want to get away from the large group.

I tend to listen and fire up on 160m or "down below" on 75 in the early evening hours when 3870-90 is crowded with activity, but move back up to the "Ghetto" later at night when that's probably the only place where other AM operators will listening. In rare cases when I do ham radio during daylight hours, I always listen first in the vicinity of 7160 before tangling with the No-Traffic Net or  large AM groups at the top of the band.

It helps to have enough frequency agility to be able to work all the way across the entire band with any band I work, instead of being limited to only a small portion of the band due to narrow band resonant antennas or other alleged reasons I often hear why one "can't" spread out a little.


I never heard of the FCC forcing any kind of bandwidth restriction on any kind of manufactured AM equipment.  That was something the manufacturers voluntarily did themselves when they climbed onto the "communications quality" bandwagon.  Compare the sound of an early KW-1 to that of one of the late serial number models, and the frequency limitations added to the audio section of later models of the 75A-4.  The FCC has always maintained a policy of unspecified bandwidth limitations, based on "good engineering practice".

I do recall a statement published by the FCC in response to one of their docket proposals in the 1970s, in which they said amateurs were "strongly encouraged" to avoid using full carrier double sideband "except in cases of emergency".  This was about the time when all the anti-AM "Docket-a-Month" crap started coming down from the FCC in the mid 70s after Johnny Johnston assumed the position of head of the amateur radio rulemaking division or bureau within the FCC, although as I recall, that statement pre-dated Johnston's ascent to power.

Or the CW community yelling and screaming at any suggestion to expand the phone bands on 40m and 20m, even though there is a wide gap with sparse activity between the segments low in the bands where most of the cw/digital stuff is heard, and the bottom ends of the phone bands.


OTOH, I doubt that the FCC is interested in expending more of their resources to further micro-manage something they consider as unimportant as the internal affairs of a group of hobbyists, i.e. the amateur radio community.

Hmmmm... somehow my entire post must not have displayed on some folk's browsers, although I can read it all here  ;D

If I read the words that I wrote, I said the so-called "window" is there for the benefit of the (in this case) AM mode, but by no means does the window restrict, in any way, where one can operate AM.  I fail to see, unless the words were not actually displayed for some reason or were otherwise unreadable, how I construed, implied or stated in way any that AM should operate only in the so-called window, or should be restricted in any way to the same.  ::)

My point, which I will reiterate, which was made to the "gentleman" who was harassing the AM Carrier Net is that AM is NOT restricted in any way to the so-called "window", and the so-called "window" is for the benefit of AM and NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.  Any implication or suggestion that anything other than this was stated is inaccurate.

Whether the "window" should or does exist is the subject of another conversation.  But even if it is a reality, the "window" does not restrict, in any way, where AM should operate and this is what I actually said.  If I simply told the guy the "window" is not real or does not exist, he would not have believed me.  At least in this way, I gave him something to think about.

I didn't take it that way... I figure the guy is misinformed about what a "window" is for (like the DX window) and I attempted to provide some sense of reality.  Again, whether the "window" exists is not what the discussion is/was about about.  A lot of SSBers think it does exist.  Most respect it, some don't, and some like the one I encountered today have a defective idea as to what it means entirely.

Defective. I got that word!  ;D

I was there at the time and the term "gentleman" does not apply in my view.  Individual? Yes.  Gentleman?  NO.  I asked in a polite way several times as did Steve for him to identify his station and he repeatedly ignored our requests.  It was as though he was reading from a script.  He left me with the impression that he was ashamed to attach his ID to his comments and so, in my mind, his comments were completely invalid for the sake of dialogue.

The only thing this individual conveyed to me was that he was ashamed to attach his commentary to his personal identification and that he might even be a disturbed individual.  Such behavior is unacceptable on the amateur band.

I prefer to consider certain frequencies as places where we of like mind and interest can congregate.  After that, we could remain on the frequency we find ourselves or arrange to "QSY" so that the frequency could be used by others.  Most of the time I just sit there and enjoy the conversation going on at the time.  The rule of gentlemanly behavior is really the underlining operational rule.  Paul Segal 9EEA wrote The Radio Amateur's Code way back in 1928.  I offer them for your consideration.

The Radio Amateur is

CONSIDERATE... He never knowingly operates in such a way as to lesson the pleasure of others

LOYAL... He offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, te IARU Radio Society in his country, through which the Amateur Radio in his country is representated nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE...He keeps his station up to date. It is well-built and efficient. His operating practice is above reproach.

FRIENDLY ... He operates slowly and patiently when requested; offers friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kind assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are marks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED ... Radio is a hobby, never interfering with the duties owed to family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC ... His station and skills are always ready for service to country and community.

I think most friction between individuals could be avoided if we all adhered to this code of conduct.  I am proud to associate myself with AMers and for that matter, SSBers as long as each individual conducts himself in a gentlemanly way.

Al

Explaining it as if it exists only reinforces their view, defective or otherwise, that AM belongs *there* not here. The DX window is different. DX is an activity. AM is a mode. Does SSB have a 'window'? If not, why would we want to represent one in any way for AM? Other than perhaps dismissing or explaining it as a flawed theory.  ;)

Even what Don and I both mentioned isn't terribly relevant these days, that it's merely a place where AM activity can be found. More and more it's found anywhere in the band where other phone modes are found. It's becoming more the mode it once was, used by many instead of the few. The 3.885 calling frequency is the only thing I'd acknowledge since it appears the ARRL has published it. Aside from that, I just respond to such inquiries with bewilderment. "AM is allowed anywhere SSB is, in fact SSB is actually AM" usually gets them headed back in the right direction (assuming some technical competence). Having anyone respect a specific section of a band for preferred operation is an invitation to complain when we show up elsewhere, as you witnessed.

Kudos for trying to be decent about it though, Steve. There's no need to crawl down into the gutter with them as some enjoy doing. As we've seen, folks with that attitude are as set in their ways as hard core political types. Far better to win them over with the pleasing audio and good ol' fun operating that has worked so well. Things like the AM Transmitter Rally, HMR, and other opportunities to showcase what we enjoy and see as another mode for folks to try.


I'm not aware of such a thing either. In fact, the few pre-war Collins transmitters I've heard sound pretty nice. They were out years before the HT-9, HT-4, or even the HT-1. Art decided to restrict audio quality himself, in favor of more communications-quality punch. As you mention, the KW-1 is a prime example, as documented by several folks including Skip 'YOO I believe. The extra response was considered wasted energy. It's possible that the experiences of WWII helped shape this approach for Collins and other manufacturers. Fidelity wasn't an issue for folks back in the 50s or even 60s like it is today. More, not better, modulation was the objective.

Perhaps I could have written that a bit clearer so that everyone could understand it ;D
I was referring to the ARRL doing the forcing and there was nothing voluntary if the manufacturers wanted to advertise.
The 75A4 audio was aimed at the SSB user as AM was already considered obsolete by Collins for ham use, the 32V3 was their last gasp, there was no 32V4. The AM filter was an optional afterthought to make a profit on dinosaurs ???







Had to change to an ancient browser compatibility mode to be able to edit as this site doesnt like IE8, at least here.
JJ was an interesting Radiokit customer, usually ordering serious QRO parts ;D

Carl

Another who misunderstood poor old me ??? Thats why I mentioned the HT-9 earlier as it has a 15kc bandwidth and its early postwar; the HT-20 was castrated. The 32V1 came out after the ARRL pressure was on and you could also read between the lines why the Viking I took so long between first announcement and actual deliveries. Read some of those early ads and draw your own conclusion.

I Googled "Don't argue with" and got a fine collection of apropos hits including

Don't argue with a (fool, idiot, me, Spiderman ...) and my personal favorite

Don't argue with a goat

When a wise man starts to argue with a fool, it doesn't take long before no-one can tell the difference.   ::)

A wise man also checks his references before becoming a fool.

Here's what I go by.

Sec. 97.101  General standards.


    (a) In all respects not specifically covered by FCC Rules each 
amateur station must be operated in accordance with good engineering and 
good amateur practice.
    (b) Each station licensee and each control operator must cooperate 
in selecting transmitting channels and in making the most effective use 
of the amateur service frequencies. No frequency will be assigned for 
the exclusive use of any station.
    (c) At all times and on all frequencies, each control operator must 
give priority to stations providing emergency communications, except to 
stations transmitting communications for training drills and tests in 
RACES.
    (d) No amateur operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere 
with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal.

Sec. 97.3  Definitions.

    (a) The definitions of terms used in part 97 are:
….

    (8 ) Bandwidth. The width of a frequency band outside of which the 
mean power of the transmitted signal is attenuated at least 26 dB below 
the mean power of the transmitted signal within the band.


….

   (c)(5) Phone. Speech and other sound emissions having designators with 
A, C, D, F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2 or 3 as the second 
symbol; E as the third symbol. Also speech emissions having B as the 
first symbol; 7, 8 or 9 as the second symbol; E as the third symbol. MCW 
for the purpose of performing the station identification procedure, or 
for providing telegraphy practice interspersed with speech. Incidental 
tones for the purpose of selective calling or alerting or to control the 
level of a demodulated signal may also be considered phone.

Sec. 97.301  Authorized frequency bands.


    The following transmitting frequency bands are available to an 
amateur station located within 50 km of the Earth's surface, within the 
specified ITU Region, and outside any area where the amateur service is 
regulated by any authority other than the FCC.
    (a) For a station having a control operator who has been granted a 
Technician, Technician Plus, General, Advanced, or Amateur Extra Class 
operator license or who holds a CEPT radio-amateur license or IARP of 
any class:

(b) For a station having a control operator who has been granted an Amateur
Extra Class operator license or who holds a CEPT radio-amateur license Class 1
license or Class 1 IARP:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                                    Sharing
                                                                                               requirements. See
         Wavelength band             ITU--Region 1       ITU--Region 2       ITU--Region 3       Sec.  97.303
                                                                                                  (Paragraph)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
               MF                         kHz                 kHz                 kHz

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
160 m...........................  1810-1850.........  1800-2000.........  1800-2000.........  (a), (b), (c).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
               HF                         MHz                 MHz                 MHz

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80 m............................  3.50-3.60.........  3.50-3.60.........  3.50-3.60.........  (a).
75 m............................  3.60-3.80.........  3.60-4.00.........  3.60-3.90.........  (a).
40 m............................  7.0-7.1...........  7.0-7.3...........  7.0-7.1...........  (a).
30 m............................  10.10-10.15.......  10.10-10.15.......  10.10-10.15.......  (d).
20 m............................  14.00-14.35.......  14.00-14.35.......  14.00-14.35.......  ..................
17 m............................  18.068-18.168.....  18.068-18.168.....  18.068-18.168.....  ..................
15 m............................  21.00-21.45.......  21.00-21.45.......  21.00-21.45.......  ..................
12 m............................  24.89-24.99.......  24.89-24.99.......  24.89-24.99.......  ..................
10 m............................  28.0-29.7.........  28.0-29.7.........  28.0-29.7.........  ..................
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sec. 97.305  Authorized emission types.

    (a) An amateur station may transmit a CW emission on any frequency 
authorized to the control operator.
    (b) A station may transmit a test emission on any frequency 
authorized to the control operator for brief periods for experimental 
purposes, except that no pulse modulation emission may be transmitted on 
any frequency where pulse is not specifically authorized and no SS 
modulation emission may be transmitted on any frequency where SS is not 
specifically authorized.
    (c) A station may transmit the following emission types on the 
frequencies indicated, as authorized to the control operator, subject to 
the standards specified in Sec. 97.307(f) of this part.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                Standards see Sec.  97.307(f),
 Wavelength band       Frequencies            Emission types authorized                   paragraph:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MF:
    160 m         Entire band..........  RTTY, data........................  (3).
    160 m         Entire band..........  Phone, image......................  (1), (2).
HF:
    80 m          Entire band..........  RTTY, data........................  (3), (9).
    75 m          Entire band..........  Phone, image......................  (1), (2).
    40 m          7.000-7.100 MHz......  RTTY, data........................  (3), (9).
    40 m          7.075-7.100 MHz......  Phone, image......................  (1), (2), (9), (11).
    40 m          7.100-7.150 MHz......  RTTY, data........................  (3), (9).
    40 m          7.125-7.300 MHz......  Phone, image......................  (1), (2).
    30 m          Entire band..........  RTTY, data........................  (3).
    20 m          14.00-14.15 MHz......  RTTY, data........................  (3).
    20 m          14.15-14.35 MHz......  Phone, image......................  (1), (2).
    17 m          18.068-18.110 MHz....  RTTY, data........................  (3).
    17 m          18.110-18.168 MHz....  Phone, image......................  (1), (2).
    15 m          21.0-21.2 MHz........  RTTY, data........................  (3), (9).
    15 m          21.20-21.45 MHz......  Phone, image......................  (1), (2).
    12 m          24.89-24.93 MHz......  RTTY, data........................  (3).
    12 m          24.93-24.99 MHz......  Phone, image......................  (1), (2).
    10 m          28.0-28.3 MHz........  RTTY, data........................  (4).
    10 m          28.3-28.5 MHz........  Phone, image......................  (1), (2), (10).
    10 m          28.5-29.0 MHz........  Phone, image......................  (1), (2).
    10 m          29.0-29.7 MHz........  Phone, image......................  (2).

Sec. 97.307  Emission standards.

    (a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than 
necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted, 
in accordance with good amateur practice.
    (b) Emissions resulting from modulation must be confined to the band 
or segment available to the control operator. Emissions outside the 
necessary bandwidth must not cause splatter or keyclick interference to 
operations on adjacent frequencies.
    (c) All spurious emissions from a station transmitter must be 
reduced to the greatest extent practicable. If any spurious emission, 
including chassis or power line radiation, causes harmful interference 
to the reception of another radio station, the licensee of the 
interfering amateur station is required to take steps to eliminate the 
interference, in accordance with good engineering practice.
    (d) The mean power of any spurious emission from a station 
transmitter or external RF power amplifier transmitting on a frequency 
below 30 MHz must not exceed 50 mW and must be at least 40 dB below the 
mean power of the fundamental emission. For a transmitter of mean power 
less than 5 W, the attenuation must be at least 30 dB. A transmitter 
built before April 15, 1977, or first marketed before January 1, 1978, 
is exempt from this requirement.
    (e) The mean power of any spurious emission from a station 
transmitter or external RF power amplifier transmitting on a frequency 
between 30-225 MHz must be at least 60 dB below the mean power of the 
fundamental. For a transmitter having a mean power of 25 W or less, the 
mean power of any spurious emission supplied to the antenna transmission 
line must not exceed 25 <greek-m>W and must be at least 40 dB below the 
mean power of the fundamental emission, but need not be reduced below 
the power of 10 <greek-m>W. A transmitter built before April 15, 1977, 
or first marketed before January 1, 1978, is exempt from this 
requirement.
    (f) The following standards and limitations apply to transmissions 
on the frequencies specified in Sec. 97.305(c) of this part.
    (1) No angle-modulated emission may have a modulation index greater 
than 1 at the highest modulation frequency.
    (2) No non-phone emission shall exceed the bandwidth of a 
communications quality phone emission of the same modulation type. The 
total bandwidth of an independent sideband emission (having B as the 
first symbol), or a multiplexed image and phone emission, shall not exceed that of a 
communications quality A3E emission.
    (3) Only a RTTY or data emission using a specified digital code 
listed in Sec. 97.309(a) of this part may be transmitted. The symbol 
rate must not exceed 300 bauds, or for frequency-shift keying, the 
frequency shift between mark and space must not exceed 1 kHz.
    (4) Only a RTTY or data emission using a specified digital code 
listed in Sec. 97.309(a) of this part may be transmitted. The symbol 
rate must not exceed 1200 bauds, or for frequency-shift keying, the 
frequency shift between mark and space must not exceed 1 kHz.
    (5) A RTTY, data or multiplexed emission using a specified digital 
code listed in Sec. 97.309(a) of this part may be transmitted. The 
symbol rate must not exceed 19.6 kilobauds. A RTTY, data or multiplexed 
emission using an unspecified digital code under the limitations listed 
in Sec. 97.309(b) of this part also may be transmitted. The authorized 
bandwidth is 20 kHz.
    (6) A RTTY, data or multiplexed emission using a specified digital 
code listed in Sec. 97.309(a) of this part may be transmitted. The 
symbol rate must not exceed 56 kilobauds. A RTTY, data or multiplexed 
emission using an unspecified digital code under the limitations listed 
in Sec. 97.309(b) of this part also may be transmitted. The authorized 
bandwidth is 100 kHz.
    (7) A RTTY, data or multiplexed emission using a specified digital 
code listed in Sec. 97.309(a) of this part or an unspecified digital 
code under the limitations listed in Sec. 97.309(b) of this part may be 
transmitted.
    (8 ) A RTTY or data emission having designators with A, B, C, D, E, 
F, G, H, J or R as the first symbol; 1, 2, 7 or 9 as the second symbol; 
and D or W as the third symbol is also authorized.
    (9) A station having a control operator holding a Novice or 
Technician Class operator license may only transmit a CW emission using 
the international Morse code.
    (10) A station having a control operator holding a Novice Class 
operator license or a Technician Class operator license and who has 
received credit for proficiency in telegraphy in accordance with the 
international requirements may only transmit a CW emission using the 
international Morse code or phone emissions J3E and R3E.
    (11) Phone and image emissions may be transmitted only by stations 
located in ITU Regions 1 and 3, and by stations located within ITU 
Region 2 that are west of 130 deg. West longitude or south of 20 deg. 
North latitude.
    (12) Emission F8E may be transmitted.
    (13) A data emission using an unspecified digital code under the 
limitations listed in Sec. 97.309(b) also may be transmitted. The 
authorized bandwidth is 100 kHz.

why, because they always "butt" in?

"Sec. 97.305  Authorized emission types.

    (b) A station may transmit a test emission on any frequency
authorized to the control operator for brief periods for experimental
purposes, except that no pulse modulation emission may be transmitted on
any frequency where pulse is not specifically authorized and no SS
modulation emission may be transmitted on any frequency where SS is not
specifically authorized."

No pulse might be a problem with those amplifier-pulsing tune-up boxes that seem do just that.. Or is that confused with a series of dits?

SS - spread spectrum?


"sec. 97.307
    (2) No non-phone emission shall exceed the bandwidth of a
communications quality phone emission of the same modulation type. The
total bandwidth of an independent sideband emission (having B as the
first symbol), or a multiplexed image and phone emission, shall not exceed that of a
communications quality A3E emission."

For: ISB when it includes SSTV. (rarely used) I think the Harris ISB RF-301 has a 3KC or 3.3KC per sideband. - -but it is not an AM set so to speak. The wording is odd. "communications quality A3E". Is not an ISB voice +SSTV an A8W (A9W?) signal, not A3E. Or do they mean that it should not be wider than a communications quality AM signal?



========

Type of modulation
N    Unmodulated carrier
A    Double-sideband amplitude modulation (e.g. AM broadcast radio)
H    Single-sideband with full carrier (e.g. as used by CHU)
R    Single-sideband with reduced or variable carrier
J    Single-sideband with suppressed carrier (e.g. Shortwave utility and amateur stations)
B    Independent sideband (two sidebands containing different signals)
C    Vestigial sideband (e.g. NTSC)
F    Frequency modulation (e.g. FM broadcast radio)
G    Phase modulation
D    Combination of AM and FM or PM
P    Sequence of pulses without modulation
K    Pulse amplitude modulation
L    Pulse width modulation (e.g. as used by WWVB)
M    Pulse position modulation
Q    Sequence of pulses, phase or frequency modulation within each pulse
V    Combination of pulse modulation methods
W    Combination of any of the above
X    None of the above

Type of modulating signal
0    No modulating signal
1    One channel containing digital information, no subcarrier
2    One channel containing digital information, using a subcarrier
3    One channel containing analogue information
7    More than one channel containing digital information
8    More than one channel containing analogue information
9    Combination of analogue and digital channels
X    None of the above
Types 4 and 5 were removed from use with the 1982 Radio Regulations. In previous editions, they had indicated facsimile and video, respectively.

Type of transmitted information
N    No transmitted information
A    Aural telegraphy, intended to be decoded by ear, such as Morse code
B    Electronic telegraphy, intended to be decoded by machine (radioteletype and digital modes)
C    Facsimile (still images)
D    Data transmission, telemetry or telecommand (remote control)
E    Telephony (voice or music intended to be listened to by a human)
F    Video (television signals)
W    Combination of any of the above
X    None of the above

Details of information
A    Two-condition code, elements vary in quantity and duration
B    Two-condition code, elements fixed in quantity and duration
C    Two-condition code, elements fixed in quantity and duration, error-correction included
D    Four-condition code, one condition per "signal element"
E    Multi-condition code, one condition per "signal element"
F    Multi-condition code, one character represented by one or more conditions
G    Monophonic broadcast-quality sound
H    Stereophonic or quadraphonic broadcast-quality sound
J    Commercial-quality sound (non-broadcast)
K    Commercial-quality sound—frequency inversion and-or "band-splitting" employed
L    Commercial-quality sound, independent FM signals, such as pilot tones, used to control the demodulated signal
M    Greyscale images or video
N    Full-color images or video
W    Combination of two or more of the above
X    None of the above

Multiplexing
N    None used
C    Code-division (excluding spread spectrum)
F    Frequency-division
T    Time-division
W    Combination of Frequency-division and Time-division
X    None of the above

I looked up the actual statement I was quoting from memory:

A wise man once said, “Don’t argue with a fool for too long, because after a while, no-one can tell the difference between you.”

http://betterlifecoaching.wordpress.com/2011/03/08/arguing-with-fools/


Ah yes.  The revised emission designators. Once that system was adopted, AM, which had long been one of a half dozen or so emission types used by amateurs on HF, suddenly became "insignificant" as merely one of over 1300, according to the geniuses at the rulemaking division at the FCC as they continued to push their anti-AM crappola back in the 80s, and the non-technical lawyer type commissioners failed to see the deception.

Must have been written in Fort Fumble, aka DC.

I'll bet he said it more than "once"...seems like it was shortened. didn't it end with" between you and the fool?

Tat's all folks!

Actually it ends something to effect of;

"Once he (the fool) gets you down to his level he beats you up with experience!"

 ;)Maybe we should just move AM activity down to the "so-called" DX window.  Some nights there is little activity there. ;) ;) ::)

K1KW has been known to blast thru the slopbuckets down there on AM, JJ also I bet.

Yes, it does poke a hornets nest at times but oh well...

Sometimes the DX station doesn't even realize you are transmitting AM.

A couple of times I did that on 40m, then told the DX station what mode I was running, and he switched his ricebox over to AM; we carried on a 2-way AM conversation for 20 min. or longer, with the DX station running only about 20 watts.

On a popular DX window on 40M there are QSO's taking place and most users know that there are times that folks are going to start listening for DX to role in using the grey line propagation. Many times the QSO will break and allow anyone who is trying to call DX to use the freq. There aren't any wars going on there.

   I've got just enough country boy left in me to poke one every now and then... ;D ;D

A couple of times right after the broadcasters moved out, I was working AM on or about 7160, when a slopbucket came on and told me to "get that trash up to 7290 where it belongs. This is DX territory".  My response was, if he didn't think there was enough room in this part of the band for DX and AM activity, then he should petition the FCC to expand the phone band down to 7100, so US amateurs could actually use that sparsely populated segment of the band between 7100 and 7125 that CW stations rarely use.

Hi Don,
I understand that the demand to get out of the DX window was not what you wanted to get in reply to a CQ, BUT the folks trying to use the freq from other parts of the world would like to use the freq and try some grey line work. It's not like they can go to another clear spot and waste time calling when there is only about an hour in THEIR morning or THEIR evening to call CQ DX.
That part of the band is very usable in SE Asia and Down Under. They are very close to high power SW stations not too far up from that window. The USA is pretty tame on 40M and it is very useable.
While we were visiting the Philippines there was CW and voice all mixed up from other countries. Hams talking over CW QSO's, etc. There was some yapping taking place from some Aussies, but when one of them heard me calling the USA station, they broke off their QSO to let me take a crack at it. I was almost able to talk to a Ham in Fla using 100 W using grey line propagation. But noise levels were increasing and the time slipped by and I missed him. So it was really a Whirl Wide Gentlemen's agreement to keep 7160 clear during grey line conditions.
Fred

Maybe Don was trying to "take a crack at" some AM DX! 

It's so silly to hear "get out of the DX window" when I hear domestic SSB stations sitting there chatting for hours with maybe an occasional VK or ZL joining, this all over the lower portion of 40 (7.125 through 7.200) during dark hours.

I've been known to break a few windows in my time!

But they have the full range of frequencies between about 7060 and 7200 (everywhere except in USA), including loads of space below 7125 if they want to avoid Yanks.  And when propagation permits, you DO hear a lot of domestic slopbucketeers ragchewing in the lower part of the band, even during prime DX hours. Granted, DXing is a popular facet of 40m operation during the evening hours when propagation is good into Europe now that (most) broadcasters have vacated, but the DXers don't own the entire band.

If there is a "DX window" on 40m in the US, I would say that it lies between 7125 and 7150, and/or maybe somewhere between 7175 and 7200 to allow the Generals to participate.

I don't believe there is a SSB/phone "DX Window" on 40 meters.
40 bandplan: http://www.bandplans.com/index.php?band=40

I wasn't around when these gentlemen, whoever they are, made their so called agreement.

There is no window and I've never heard of any gentlemans' agreement on 7160. I've been very active on 40 meters in that frequency range since 2009 (approximately 4000 contacts).

Considering that the broadcasters only vacated that part of the band in March of 2009 it seems dubious at best. As I recall, 7.160 was an AM gathering spot some years ago as well, long before any DX claims. So any 'agreement' is between DXers and no one else. They should expect no more special treatment than anyone else gets. This 'I get special treatment to enjoy my favorite aspect of the hobby' is only as valid if everyone else gives up their right to use that portion of the band. Right up there with the 'this is out NET frequency' BS.  :P

you did not get the memo that said chasing dx is the single most important thing in ham radio?   has priority over everything else  ;)

No, I thought QuaRMtesting was.

In the months after the FCC reapportioned the 80 and 40 meter bands, I had fun saying I thought the new regulations said only full carrier DSB AM was allowed in the expanded phone segments.

Maybe it's time to bluff that again with encounters around 7160Kc.

I like it!  ;D

but what do you do with it after you catch it? ? ? ?

It's catch and release. The DX doesn't like being held prisoner.

Being that yous guys weren't in SE Asia and did not experience what I did, then my words have a tiny bit of truth to them.
The grey line is not a guaranteed 10 over S-9 while it is taking place. Many times an Aussie or someone from Indonesia may be an S-3 with noise. That WINDOW of opportunity is about an hour twice a day. So the DX window that apparently someone recognizes, whether it was a "Gentleman's agreement" or in the ARRL grand scheme band plan, was appreciated that I had a slight chance to show what my hobby was about to my brother-in-law. He thought it was kinda neat to talk, even briefly, to somebody from another country / continent. Ya the boring "name here, rig, antenna, barefoot, 599 etc etc" can be a nice change / challenge from a stateside QSO.
The "gentlemen's agreement" was my term, sorry it did not get passed around in the memo.
Fred

Fred, most Dog X-ray operators are not shy, based on my encounters with them.  SO if there's a grey line or other propagational opportunity at hand, you KNOW they would speak up and ask for a chance.  I'd be glad to stand by and help listen, sort of like when someone asks a repeater QSO if they can make a call.  QSO then resumes.

It's very hard to warrant a full time, permanent exclusion of some segment of a band, where people seldom show up to claim their reserved table.  When someone is expected, or may already have been heard, then fine by me, stand back a while.

Vast areas where no one was operating was why the FCC scaled back the size of the subbands set aside for CW.

In our case, it could send the wrong message to federal regulators if we were to voluntarily leave portions underutilized.

I suspect your time in SE Asian wasn't spent enjoying a leisurely hobby like amateur radio, Fred.  

IMO, having such gathering spots is not a bad idea, nor is recognizing or respecting them. It's the arbitrary declaration by some, without any consideration of the rest of the people who don't pursue the same interest, that most object to. At the very least, they should have done their homework before proclaiming some new reservation for the 40m band on a frequency previously known (at least as well as their DX window idea) to be an area used by AMers.

Then again, if AMers aren't using the area with any regularity, it makes it easier to assume nobody cares. Doesn't make it right, just easier. In the end, any agreement recognized and/or known only to the few who participate in it (like Nets) has no bearing. Within the limited exceptions outlined by the FCC for emergency use, nobody owns or has exclusive rights to any frequency(s). It's first come, first served. End of story.

No one is disputing what you experienced Fred. If others stood by for your to make a contact, awesome. If there is a gentlemen's' agreement in that part of the world for 7160 and gray line propagation, awesome! I've never heard anyone in the USA or Europe make any such claim about 7160. It's not even exclusively for DX in the USA. I've worked VKs on the long path gray line many times on 40 meters. According to my log, only three times has it been on 7160.

I actually like not having a DX Window on 40 meters. If I want to rag chew with a DX station, I don't have some Kilocycle Cop ranting at me about "tying up the window."

I don't do windows!

You're a MAC man???
Did you mean Windoze? Budly?

The Lids are everywhere. To recite the noble preachings of the K4KYV, "Strap and Ignore." I was on 29100 with a buddy of mine in a nice 3hr qso. He's running a hot rodded Kenmore and a linyar and I'm running my J500/r390a. Inside that three hours or so, no less than a half dozen dimwits showed up to try and interfere. Yeah OK, we're like 10 miles away from each other, so good luck with that. The only one that was interesting was a no-ID'er who said we were running an "illegal mode" and "we're being recorded", then insisted we give him our calls. I tapped out my call at 25wpm on a little tone box which infuriated this problem child enough to make him clear the frequency.

Sometimes the nutjobs can be entertaining. 

I love it!! What an elegant way to id during a QSO.  Have you ever noticed these mode police are complete cowards and hardly ever ID?

I think they are fair game for messing with their minds

Al

I would've told him he was just as illegal as he claims you supposedly were for him to not give out HIS call, bet he never would've tought of things that way.

kb3ouk:

That precise point was made at the time.  However, it was as though he was reading from a script.  I wonder if any thought was given to the "speach."  He certainly had the opportunity to identify himself and join the QSO through gracious invitation.


Any intelligent person would have behaved quite differtly.  It's sad but this is a common occurance these days

I'm proud of who I am and my callsign.  This person is not

Al

Losers are not usually not proud of themselves.

You've properly identified what sort of person you were dealing with.

No, Phred, I mean windows. Operating windows in the ham bands. I don't do them. They don't exist. For instance, my AM operating on 40 meters can be from 7.125 to 7.300 MHz. If you want to call that a window then fine by you.

Why do we do this to ourselves?