The AM Forum

Wow,

Hamfest in Richmond (Va) this weekend there are two CY-979A cabinets for the R390(A), asking $500 and $600.  That's EACH, for the CABINET !

And an "Imperial" contract R390A was asking $600, for the radio itself, NO cabinet !  Also a Collins contract there, price tag face down.

I may have to review my inventory and move some things along.

The real question, of course, is did they sell at that price?

People can ask any price they want but the real proof is if they sell at that price. It's instructive to use the advanced search function on Epay and search for completed auctions, you can see what sold and what didn't for the last 30 days.

I ran into a guy a couple of years ago in northern Wisconsin who had disposed of two large garages that were full to the walls and ceilings with old electronics. He had NO idea what he had there and an 8th grade education. He scrapped about 90% of the stuff and started putting some stuff on Epay. He was getting about $750 each for R390As and all he could tell you about it was that the lights came on. He had about a dozen that he was selling, but at least twice that many went into the dumpster. He crushed the large tubes so they'd take up less space in the dumpster. If I would have been offered the deal he had, I would have retired and spent the next couple of years selling on Epay. The new owners of those garages, who bought the land from the SK, were scared of the liability issues and paid him $32,000 to clean out the garages.

I bought a pair of R390As from him for $450 since I didn't try to screw him over or talk down to him. By the time I got in touch with him the damage had been done. That's not the first horde of stuff that I've seen hit the dumpsters.

Isn't it amazing how paranoid people are these days?  The lawyers say "jump" and folks ask "how high"?  And then they have the gall to try to tell you that you are "prohibited" from pulling stuff out of the dumpster.

Prohibited, my arse.

I guess a lot depends on who owns the dumpster.

Geeze. My heirs will hate me when I go. All the old Military Vehicles, Radios, 3 unrestored WW2 Vintage German Howitzers. They'll have the Bomb Squad, police,Fire Dept and Alphabet soups here! Wish I could be around to see it and LAUGH!

I would hope that someone who may not have any interest in the hobby and has no need of a garage or storage building full of electronics would consider taking an inventory and just sell it 'as-is' 'buy--it-now' at a Hamfest price ( 1985 prices) just to move it on. Remember when a T368 was $700.00 from Fair Radio??
And not a generalized "cleaning the shack' eBay sale with a zillion pictures.
I understand that if there is health issues, that the interest in giving electronic equipment a new home and gaining some extra cash, may not be of any concern.

Those paranoid yuppies could have saved $32,000 by simply giving the stuff away to anyone willing to take it ALL and haul everything off the premises.  That's how I acquired two broadcast transmitters.

Actually, one was $400 and one was $500. The R-390A was in great shape and priced cheaper than others that have sold on ebay for more.

Were you there Paul? There was a large AM contingent there. If so, you must've kept a very low profile. Someone mentioned seeing your brother there, maybe they were confused?


No more amazing than the amount of time some people spend online commenting on it or posting paranoia about things like the NFL.

Nah, didn't make it, that's all I would have "needed" is to see an R390A of that caliber and have it follow me home.

What gets me is the price of those cabinets these days in relation to the valuation of the receiver itself. Chris called me from the hamfest to ask if I wanted him to pick one up, yeah right, ha ha.

I've got a really rare CY-919 that has the box-square corners matching the rear rails of the R390. I can only imagine what that would bring.  But I "need" it so it's not going anywhere.

Hope someone took snapshots of the AMers contingent and will post ...  

What with Timonium losing stature, and Gatihersburg gone, looks like FrostFest and maybe Winchester are the ones to hit anymore.

I was there and saw the big money R-390 along with the two rack cases for $400 and $500 and the side band adapter for the 390 for $500,  It appears that if you want to be a serious AM or Collins person these days you have to have a 390. Having worked on and owned one twenty years or so ago don’t think I would want to go back there but imagine  that’s just because in the high powered word of AM or Collins collecting I am  just a rank armature. There was a HRO-7 there with all the coils, power supply and speaker there for $300 or so and that was tempting along with a pre war Halicrafters receiver that was under $100 but only had one set of plug in coils and they were broadcast band. Was going to go back and offer money for both but got distracted by the gun show next door but that turned out to be a problem, found a couple nice Springfield 1903 that I liked but nether dealer would sell to me because I am from Maryland. One told me he won’t deal with anyone from a communist state like Maryland or New Jersey and the other once we settled on a price and found out I was from Maryland told me he would not sell to me and he was sorry because I seemed like an OK guy until he found I was from Maryland. Don’t mind that as much as being grouped in with the New Jersey people, don’t know if you can even look at a gun in that state.
 

Well if that really was an R390, that would really have been a jewel.

There aren't very many low-mileage originals out there anymore, compared to the younger, more plentiful "A" variant.

Think it was a 390A and not the 390, but not 100% cretin. What's so great about the non "A" version anyway? Think all I ever worked with or on were the A versions with the mechanical filters, from what I recall the IF deck was the only difference. So is that the drill?  In order to be the complete AM operator it has to be just a straight 390 and not a 390A, next you'll tell me it has to be the Collins built 390 and not one by Motorola or Stewart Warner? 

It gets kinda silly after a while.

I think I drew the line among examples of the 390A when I caught myself debating whether I wanted a "mongrel," with a mix of modules from various contractors, or a "purebred" where all the modules match the main chassis maker.

Functionally there's quite a lot of difference between the 390 and the 390A, and I use the 390A more often.  The 390 sounds better because the selectivity is established more gently than with the mechanical filters, so bandpass edges sound better. But it takes uncongested conditions to enjoy that kind of slope, and they rarely happen.

What I end up with, in practice, is to use a Hammarlund SP600 with the same sort of sound as a 390, PLUS the nice flywheel tuning.  Otherwise, it's the mechanically filtered 390A to make the most out of whatever spot on the dial happens to be The Place.

Yo'

   The 390 also has SQUELCH, AM nets lend themselves Nicely
to that.

73

/Dan

Well actually, Steve has posted a shot of the radio at FrostFest.
Beware the non-standard replacement meters.  That's all I can say (inauthentic).

On the other hand, I see he's got the Chuck Rippel series of R390A repair and tune-up videos (red boxes). It was a really comprehensive narrative of how Chuck approaches this receiver, what to look for, and how to get at the various points of interest.

For a spotter's guide, the quick way to tell the 390 from her younger sister is the knob top dead center on the 390A.  The 390 has only the serial number plate, or a spot where one would go. (many were taken off as part of government surplus protocol)

About meters...The two I got in Wisconsin had those radiation warning stickers stuck to them. I checked them both with the survey meter and only one of them is actually "hot".

At some point they must have changed from the radium dials.

They're not so "hot" that I'd worry about it but I wouldn't put one of those meters under my pillow.

Far greater risk from the ART-13. I understand the front panel contains radium paint in the dial markings, unprotected.

Just a reminder that the 390A was NOT contracted primarily as a performance upgrade from the 390.  Per the Signal Corps, it was released as a cost-cutting measure. Analogous to the Gates BC1-F kw built-like-a-battleship broadcast transmitter vs the cheaper and lighter BC1-T.

I believe a special version of the 390A was also produced, retaining the non-mechanical filter 390 i.f. strip, for certain applications where the phase-shift characteristic of the mechanical filters would have been unsatisfactory. The non-mechanical filter selectivity is not quite so good as the one with the mechanical filters, but there's not that much difference. Evidently the mechanical filters were cheaper to produce than satisfactory L-C i.f. transformer coupling.

The 390A really needs an intermediate choice of selectivity between the 4 kc/s and 8 kc/s filters.  For typical congested ham band condx, a 6 kc/s filter is closer to optimum for AM.  The 4 is too narrow, and the 8 is too wide.  For less congested condx,  however, the 8 sounds much better than the 6.  I have several outboard filters added to my 75A-4, giving me a choice of 300~, and 3.1, 4, 6, 8 and 16 kc/s.  I also have a nominal 9.7 kc/s mechanical filter, but the selectivity characteristic is identical to that of the 8, so I suspect it is the same filter, rated at a different shape factor standard. Some of the selectivities in my A-4 use adapted 390-A filters. Being able to instantly switch between them, I find a big difference between the 6 and 8.  Under certain kinds of congested condx, using the Sherwood sync detector, I find the 8 results in better intelligibility than the 6 despite the QRM.

The 390A power supply weighs a lot  less than that of the 390, and it doesn't have the 6080 regulator tube and runs cooler.  There are a  number of technical improvements with the 390A, but those were incidental to the main objective: lower cost.

If you think the dial markings on the ART-13 and the meters in the R-390 series receivers were hazardous, what about the radium dials on wrist watches and alarm clocks that were so popular in the 40s and 50s?

Not on any I've ever owned or seen. Just good ol' silkscreened white lettering and white painted lines on the knobs. ARC-5 dials and control boxes are another matter.

Yeah, did a search to refresh my memory on the ART-13, Not finding it. Thanks. 
I know where there's one, too, and I decided not to get it because of what I thought was the case with unsealed radium paint.

6082 but who's counting.

I dunno, there's more difference than you suggest between 8kc on the 390 and 8kc on the 390A. 
I should power them both up and make a recording of a given station to illustrate.
My impression is that the 4Kc LC-defined selectivity sounds a lot closer to the 6Kc you'd get from a mechanical filter.

Paul, the meter paint isn't radium, it's Tritium. It's still safely used in things like gun sights and watches. In any case, the half-life of the stuff is about 12 years, so any left in a meter made in the early 1950s is going to be down to 1/8th after 48 years. The beta radiation from the stuff is incapable of passing through human skin.

I was once going to post a question as to whether *anyone* with a 1950s 390 or 390A could still see the meters glow in darkness. It's all dead by now.

http://www.uniquewatchguide.com/tritium-watches/

Bill

http://www.uniquewatchguide.com/artya-tesla/

dumpster diving? It is not only against the law in many places but it may also be stealing. Now is the cutoff for all telephone companies to remove all relays having mercury, and although ATT has a fence around dumpsters to protect their reclamation program, but GTE has not generally been doing so. Modern day roving bands of gypsies are going from small town to small town emptying dumpsters and making $4K per garbage scow, er, loaded pickup, at scrapyards for the reclamation of gold and mercury and whatever else is on the boards. $4 per pound for the boards I am told. These scavengers will send someone to watch the facility and when the trashing beging - the horde is called in for night work. I had asked him about mercury relays because I prefer them for small signals such as in speech amps, as they don't seem to go bad.

They may not glow any more, but my survey meter reads them just fine, and it's not beta it's reading. I'm reading gamma from at least 3 inches in front of the hot meters. Same with the couple of old aircraft instruments I've got on the shelf.

The Navy came and got the nice brass shallow depth gauges off my old boat, the USS Torsk SS-423, about 20 years ago, claiming that they were unsafe. If they were so hot, I want my disability payments since I spent a lot of hours sitting in front of them when I ran the bow and stern planes. More bureaucratic nonsense; nobody sits in front of those things any more, just tourists passing through.

The only way you would get hurt by those things is to scrape off the paint and breath the dust.

The tritium in gunsights and stuff is sealed in glass vials.

We used to have to leave our glow in the dark watches behind on the Sub tender when we went on Polaris patrols since the ones that had radium could set off the tritium detectors on the boat.

All of my original meters still glow, some longer than others. Oddly, one of them actually glows blue instead of the usual green/yellow. It's a newer meter and I'd love to find a mate to it. The needle and numbers appear more white than the brownish-yellow of the older meters.

A number of green radios from the late 40s/early 50s are pretty hot.

Blue !   

As a kid I had glow-in-the-dark stuff, and one item was a little plastic light bulb that glowed blue in the dark.  I used to "recharge" it with a penlight flashlight. Very cool. Haven't thought of it in years.  Wonder what I was exposed to.

I had an R390 done-up by Howard Mills a number of years ago, and part of his restoration sequence includes TAKING APART the meters.  He blasts and repaints the outer covers.  For a period of time I guess the dial and needle are exposed, but I never heard him mention taking any special precautions against friable particles.

But the "meter removal order" is legend among R390(A) lore, with visions of barrels full of meters headed to a radioactive dumpsite somewhere. Tried to find the order somewhere -- instead I saw a response from Tom, KA3KRT about the level of radiation that supports what our Bill KD0HG just posted here.

------

[R-390] ( Meters That Gloweth) was -Re:Meter Spotting Guide

At 11:10 AM 11/28/97 EST, Paul Courson wrote:
>Most of the meters carry no markings to identify the vendor. An
>exception is found on certain units from the Stewart Warner contract, c.
>1960. A unit confirmed as having been manufactured in 1962 contains
>meters with the larger viewing window such like you have noted on one of
>yours, and a logo-script brand "DeJur," which was a company known for
>motion picture equipment

Now, my 1960 EAC has DeJur meters, each with the 59.xxxx date code.
My 1963 Imperial has "INTERNATIONAL" above the scales of each meter.
No other markings. Both receivers appear original. The Dejur meters are
the "older" yellowish type.

>
>There is another case style to be aware of, typically found on R-390A
>units from the Amelco contract, c.1962. The outer dimension and
>thickness of the meter are identical, but the metal face of the meter
>will feature an indented circle, within which the viewing glass and upper
>opening curve are situated. Also, the unit markings and typeface are
>different than the size and typeface of scales found on other meters.
>

My 1963 WeCo R-392 has this type of meter. This is its original
as well, as it was gotten "new in the crate". Same type as on my
CV-278 RTTY demodulator, and my '63 WeCo T-195. My older 1952
Stewart Warner '392 had an International, almost identical style as
the one on my 1963 R-390A.


>Now, back to "correct" issues. Years after the end of production for
>these radios, a demilitarization project ordered the removal of many
>meters prior to government surplus auction (also known as Defense
>Reutilization).
>

For fear of being flamed: "Oh NO! Radiation! We're gonna DIE! Run! Run Away!
[ Making fun of the folks who declared 390 meters and GI compasses
RadHazMat! ]

As a rule- the radioactive meters will not be harmful if still sealed. Do
not inhale
or eat the paint flakes if you take one apart and ALWAYS wash your hands after
handling the meter faces. Clean up any paint flakes with a damp cloth and
dispose
of properly. The problems with the radium meters come about with prolonged and
repeated exposure, so cleanup is a must. Avoid taking the meter apart if
you can help
it.

The meters on my R-390A's measure between 2-6 mR/hr beta, or 2000-5000
counts /min
alpha emission at the meter face, none above background at a normal
operating distance -
say 4-6 inches.

So, avoid handling the bare meter faces as much as possible, but dont be
afraid to
stay in the same room as your radio. And avoid carrying one* around in
your pocket
on a daily basis.... :-)

On replacement meters -- there was a guy that put together some kits
earlier this year
with replacement faces that matched the standard 390/390A style. I have
emailed him
and will pass the word on to the list if still available. The kits were
around 30.00, DIY
type - take the meters apart, apply adhesive scale, reassemble.


73

Tom
KA4RKT



* either a whole 390 or a radioactive meter!!