The AM Forum

Ok, so I like to look at old transmitters. Epically broadcast transmitters that are now in Armature radio service, and although I am biased towards my RCA MX that I have thought I would open up the floor to allow others to post pictures of what they have and are using. Keeping in mind that to qualify it has to have been produced for commercial service and retrofitted for armature use and has to be functional. Don’t know how but maybe we can have a pole of best looking and perhaps worst looking transmitters.
The idea would be that you post a picture and a description. I will start out with my transmitter. It’s a RCA BTA1-MX built in 1955 and was installed at WLAN 1390 in Lancaster Pa. It currently operates at around 375 watts carrier on 1.885 Unlike many of the huge box transmitter of the same time like the Gates BC series this transmitter has a foot print only just larger then a nineteen inch equipment rack and I think the square shape and limited use of chrome make it appear way better looking than the rounded oversized Collins transmitters.

Among the RCA, the shutter door BTA-1M series is a serious æsthetic rival.

All those little slots of glass showing off the 833A !
Can't be beat.

I don't have a shot handy of the 1M, but here's its big sister.

The doors have verticle slats that are hinged and roll back, retreating into the left side of each cabinet, just like a rolltop desk (but vertically arrayed)

(http://www.rossrevenge.co.uk/tx/bta5h.jpg)

I'd hafta pick Robert's 20V.

'nuf said!

Budley,

I certainly agree!  Love those round corners chrome and windows!

Joe, W3GMS

Tough to beat the 300G for overall visual appeal in my opinion. Though there are plenty of others, like that big 50kw RCA rig out west with the cobalt blue highlights. The WE that the Vortex had or has is pretty nice, too. And the 20V family is definitely easy on the eyes. From the days when your transmitter made a visual statement about your station and overall operation.

This one came out of a station in Colorado via Barry Wiseman, N6CSW/0. The matching audio companions came along separately. Still needs a few small pieces, though the last year has provided several.

Can't say what would be the best looking transmitter, but I would probably choose something with plenty of black wrinkle.  Maybe the pre-WW2 Collins with the C-300 tubes. A lot of transmitters of that era were "composite" (homebrew), so you might find a wide variety, like with ham transmitters.

But my vote for the worst looking transmitter would have to be the Gates BC1-T. It's as ugly as they come, with the sloping meter panel along the side and the silly little triangular shaped viewing window, but what takes the cake is that stupid ventilation grille at the bottom under the door, that bulges out away from the cabinet.  The thing looks more like a soda machine than a transmitter.

However, I can't look a gift horse in the mouth. The radio station gave it to me for removing it from their premises, and it has performed well on 160m for over 6 years now. I guess I can put up with the ugly considering what I paid for it.

Well, if we all had to see each other's rigs it would be ham television, but fortunately (in my case at least) what matters is only what they sound like.  I'm glad no one has to see the ugly pile of cr*p I have.

Don, I wonder if the Gates door can be replaced or modified with more glass in it.   I wonder if an automobile body shop could cut out the sheet metal and line the square with some kind of chrome strip and glass holder.  I guess that might cost you a few bills though.

I have entertained the idea of cutting out the hole to make it rectangular. The odd shape makes it difficult to view all four 833As if you are not right in front of the transmitter, as for example, from my operating position. But it would be expensive to have done professionally, and way too much work to attempt myself. I am not interested in doing a hack job.

I would replace the protruding grille at the bottom with a flat panel, maybe louvred. Besides looking ridiculous, that grille sticking out at the bottom sometimes gets in the way and makes the transmitter take up more footprint than necessary.

That was always something that made it a treat to visit another ham's shack back when I first got my start around 1960.  You never knew what someone's homebrew rig looked like until you saw it.  But when most hams started to use commercial equipment, even stuff like DX-100s, Rangers, Desk Kilowatts and KW-1s, everybody's rig began to look familiar because you had already seen dozens of other identical ones or at least pictures in the ads.

no, this is an ugly transmitter, the original Gates Vangaurd
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Vanguard-1a.jpg (http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Vanguard-1a.jpg)

this is my favorite old broadcast transmitter.
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Collins/Collins_300E.jpg (http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Collins/Collins_300E.jpg)
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Collins/Collins_300E_rear.jpg (http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Collins/Collins_300E_rear.jpg)
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Collins/Collins_300E_open.jpg (http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Collins/Collins_300E_open.jpg)

if you want to go into higher power than what you use on the ham bands, the old (pre 1960s) RCA 50 kw sets look nice, along with this Collins
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Collins/Collins-21B.jpg (http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/Collins/Collins-21B.jpg)
shelby

I beg your pardon Shelby. The Vanguard-1 is not ugly at all. It's a matter of perspective.

By the way, your links aren't working.

pick one...

i have no idea what is up with linking to pictures on oldradio.com. don's pic he posted doesn't display right, it should  be of a gates bc-1t. anyway the other two rigs i tried to pst links to were the Collins 300E and the 21B.

I have to pass along an ad in the latest ER posted by Sam, W6HDU.
Sam has always had some primo sounding AM rigs on the air.And beautifully restored.

Collins KW-1. Perfect condition- $20,000 (ouch!. My car payment)
Collins 20V-2 BC transmitter on 3870- $4.500
Collins TDO shortwave transmitter, 1940s- $5,500
Collins 21E- 1 to 5 KW on 3870, 1950s vintage, $4,500. I think Gary has one of these.
Western Electric 451A-1 250 watt AM box, made from 1930s to 1940s, "Tubes behind an etched glass window, in front of a blue anodized background- on 160 meters"- $10,000.

These are all instant woodie transmitters, out of the range of ordinary mortals. All perfectly restored, I've worked them many times.

Just for grins, kids.

Any Western Electric, any vintage, any power level--they eats the others' lunch, IMHO. :D

As far as looks go, that is. 8)

Keeping one running today may be a real challenge, 'specially if you want to run factory tubes. :-\

73DG

ps...They were built into the early 50's, then the line was sold off to Continental in Dalllas.

That's what shows up here. What do you see there?  Agreed the quality is poor, but it still displays on my screen and shows how the BC1-T is constructed.  I probably have a photo of mine which I could attach, or I  could take one if that one  doesn't display right.

The RCA BTA-250L is a very good-looking transmitter. No windows but the art deco look is very respectable.

Maybe you have to have an account on oldradio.com for it to display... here's what I get...

Barry's got his oldradio site locked against links to his images, that's all.

He wants visitors to see the site and its pages, not just the pix.

Also cuts down on theft.

Vortex Joe, N3IBX has one of these, I think i've seen.
Yes, probably the prettiest of them all.

Wonder why Sam's selling down?  He had a house full of great gear last we spoke on 10m.  Hope he's okay.

The pictures look like a broadcast station....All of the TX's lined up and on the air

Amazing how this hobby explodes.........

Hmm, that rig looks familiar.  AHA It reminds me of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ultimate_Computer

Fixed it (scroll back up to reply #5).

Strangely, the image displayed OK on my Win7 laptop, but I got the logo when I viewed the posting on my XP desktop. I created the link to the site using the laptop, so maybe that had something to do with it. His site just happened to be the first one I found showing an image of the BC1-T.

Clear your cache and you'll see what everyone else is seeing, Don.

" Hmm, that rig looks familiar "

I don't have a pix, but the WE unit KK4BO used to have was the coolest looking TX, BC or otherwise.

I know there are a lot of bc rigs out there (maybe not enough but a bunch) but what is a mystery to me is that I hear a few guys running them who fire them up regularly and operate but for every one of them there are probably a dozen that only come out of the wood work on heavy metal night.   I wonder if there is something about a bc rig that causes some owners to not want to run them much.  Except maybe in the hottest days of summer, I'd run one all the time if I had one to run.

Hi,

I've Noticed that as well.............

73
Jack
KA3ZLR

There is much to be said for a stylish or future-retro computer console if it is really functional. Computers today would have limited benefit for register and address lights, having so many virtual registers and other non-hardware structures, but I/O and other functions could be sampled and would make a nice and even a relatively meaningful 'load' display.

Maybe most people do not care in which way the computer is 'stopped up' -compute bound, disk bound, etc. but I care and if I know where a bottleneck is going to be, I can plan what I am doing to get the most from the machine.

The objection that the lights would flash too fast to see can be overcome by sample and hold. That nice round "CRT" on the Mk.V was really a rear projection screen, but there was an interactive art project in the early 1990's inspired by the MK.V to use a ruined NCR399 computer for its keyboard and console, and to the left its tape console and card cage replaced by a 22" round color TV CRT and pattern generators that would be connected to points inside an IBM PC/XT, which is a very simple and easy machine to access and hack.

The scheme was to have the CRT do the CGA video when the machine was displaying an answer or waiting for the user, but any time the prompt was unavailable (machine busy with something as an XT always is), the patterns of colored blocks would be displayed in sizes and positions depending on peripheral activity, and indeed the addresses and memory contents were to occupy several scan lines on the CRT with one for for each byte.  Unfortunately the funding vanished and I ended up with the massive NCR399 in my lab. The machine had to go, was 'dead' and unable to ever get working again, and I was only able to save the boards. The NCR399 was reputedly hated by its programmers but I found no fault with its appearance. Pics of the NCR399 are still here:
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/ncr_01.htm
Some of my one time huge computer collection, at the time planned for a museum, can be seen here, It is what I did before deciding to get on the air.
http://www.montagar.com/~patj/indexcughcps.htm

OK - -back to pretty transmitters! - There are many styles but one thing that fires me up more than anything is a really industrial appearance where someone would have to look at it a while before trying to start it. many large meters 4" or more, meters with wide deflections more than 90 degrees, like 180-270, dozens of controls and lamps. It also should have a dignified trim and powerful finish that says in a manly sort of way, "I am the King Transmitter" or "I am the Grandfather of BC Transmitters"


I appreciate those who might not have enough a/c or power budget to keep that sort of thing up. A BTA250 uses 1600W at carrier, how much for a KW unit at carrier? 4KW? What about having to move 20-30KC? I was under the impression BC units are narrowly tuned and can be fussy to move.

GPT 10K by TMC


[/quote]
Opcom said.......
OK - -back to pretty transmitters! - There are many styles but one thing that fires me up more than anything is a really industrial appearance where someone would have to look at it a while before trying to start it. many large meters 4" or more, meters with wide deflections more than 90 degrees, like 180-270, dozens of controls and lamps. It also should have a dignified trim and powerful finish that says in a manly sort of way, "I am the King Transmitter" or "I am the Grandfather of BC Transmitters"

I have to agree with Mike his Vanguard is a thing of beauty.

John N8QPC

The thing about the Gates Vanguard was they were reportedly horribly inefficient, ran hot and cooked PA tubes, which had a short life.There's some old Gates 1 KW plate modulated iron still in service at radio stations, Chinese 833s are still available for them, but I haven't heard of a single Vanguard still being in service, even as a backup.The only few that still exist are in ham shacks.

W-E and Continental always ran low level modulation. I think Continental produced some Doherty amplifiers in their later transmitters, but AFAIK, neither W-E nor Continental ever built any high level plate modulated rigs. Continental made it a point in their sales brochures that the difference in efficiency between classic methods of high level and low level modulation is inconsequential when considering overall efficiency, i.e. the ratio of power drawn from the a.c. power mains to r.f. input to the antenna. For ham use, the primary advantage of plate modulation is ease of tuning up the transmitter and of QSYing.

Here is an interesting discussion of various AM modulation techniques, including Doherty, Kahn and PWM.

http://pasymposium.ucsd.edu/papers2006/1_1RaabPAW06.pdf

yup. GPT 10K by TMC. That is the deal.. The manual would be a good read on that monster.

I'm with KL7OF on this one.

If you want to consider a radio transmitter as an object d'art, I think the heavy TMC transmitters rank right up there, even if they are not broadcast rigs in the literal sense, although some GPT-40Ks were used as HF SWBC rigs in DSB inserted carrier service. Perhaps the GPT-750 and GPT-10K were used for this purpose as well; of this I am not certain.

Please also consider the GPT-10K's baby brother, the TMC GPT-750D-2:

I want one ;D ;D ;D

There was a Vanguard in use in central NJ still running about ten years ago. Maybe a super snoop could find this transmitter? I think it was over in Bound Brook.

The TMC GPT 10K  Has the oscillator(s)/exciter taking up the entire 6 ft rack on the left side...This rack produces a 1 watt signal at the desired freq and mode.....that one watt then moves over to the right side to drive a 6146 that drives a PL 1000(IPA) that drives a 4CX5000 (PA)...Built in antenna tuner, balanced 600 ohm or unbalanced 50 ohm out......  any freq between 1.5 and 30 Mhz  Takes about 8 days to effect a QSY...:) The manual for this TX weighs about 10 lbs...I have used a ricebox to drive the IPA and bypass the entire left rack....but it is not as much fun as firing up the entire radio...over 100 tubes...

Rather a Busy looking little transmixer set up there But I Like it.. :) it has that HOMEBUILTNESS look
to it Ya Know.....Most Excellent.

73
Jack
KA3ZLR

The GPT-10K  is a great rig,  but,  for looks I still prefer the Collins 21-E.

This pic is K6OR,  Mike,  in front of his beautiful 21-E.

http://amfone.net/Gallery2/v/stations/k6or-1/mikexmtr-2.jpg.html?g2_GALLERYSID=8faa729b5c3a6e77ffe0483605ed93b7

Vic

Yup.  And in that picture, the Globe King looks like a little exciter module, yes ?

I had the great pleasure of helping move a 21-E from Virginia to New York a number of years ago.

An amazing adventure.  The components and cabinets were so much the rental truck nearly blew an oil filter. We stopped somewhere near Godforsaken, VA on a Sunday afternoon trying to buy some oil after MOST of the sump capacity had leaked away.

The transmitter went on to a new life on 80 meters, bringing many, many hours of pleasure to listeners and the Chief Operator alike.

hey Paul,

Yes,  the GK is a bit over-scaled by the Collins.

Think that I recogize the 21-E in your photo ...  I did "help" move Mike's 21,  as well,  but the rental truck had a lift-gate rated for 2000 Lbs,  so it would take each bay with no real sweat,  altho,  the move was not as memorable as yours.

Sorry for the postage stamp photo,  mabe I can fix that.  That is the first image ever posted,  am a Novice.

73,  Vic

That 20v2 in the beginning of the thread is most beautiful. Are those 4x1's?? Holy Strap Batman.

That Vanguard looks cool and much smaller, but I get the feeling I should be getting a pack of Marb's out of it at 12:30 in the morning in some downtown dive.

How did all these TMC's get in here? The title of this thread is "best looking broadcast transmitter", not "What's the best transmitter ever made by mankind??"

(http://amfone.net/Amforum/gallery/1019_25_06_07_10_16_07.jpg)

BC TX only? ok sorry to have fouled the thread with a desire for meters and controls..
I'm no expert but the appearance of certain transmitters reminds me of other equipment and some I just don't like. It does not mean I wouldn't have them. So don't take it the wrong way because these are constructive comments.

The RCA BTA1-MX reminds me of an industrial RF furnace. Open the door and remove the crucible.
The BTA-5 there looks like an uncle of the 11/780 or VAXbar.
The 20V - I have never liked transmitters that have the tubes mounted on the side walls. The view could be corrected by putting a V-shaped mirror in the center so the tubes could all be seen from the front.
The 300G looks best overall because the tubes are out front.
The Gates BC1-T reminds me of an imposing 50's robot.
The Vanguard reminds me of a 'Quad machine' That is a piece of video equipment for men. It didn't remind me of the MK.V.
The 451A-1 is one of the best looking with the tubes in front and the large round meters.
The 21-E is great looking, the problem is that when they get that large, the 'knobs and meters density' falls below a certain level.

That was supposed to be the best hi fidelity AM transmitter around. I always enjoy the Gates or Harris sound......I do not know how GE got to be so big with their 50KW during the WABC heydays......Reports were that when they switched to a Harris MW-50 that the sound was not the same as the GE's..........okay broadcast radio chatter..........
Fred

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One of the most attractive features of the RCA for me is the ease of maintenance and modification. Front half of the transmitter provides access to all tubes and the back half to all components. The Collins 20V stuff is a maze of chassis and boxes that are a hassle to work on along with the strange plug in coil assemblies. The old Gates BC series had steel boiler plate sides that weighed a lot and were a problem to remove and had the fun feature of having exposed plate voltage on each side for the power control and metering.
The TMC stuff is great but once you allow that in it opens the door to T-368 and BC-610 transmitters and shortly no more broadcast stuff and people would be posting pictures of the stupid blue flex box. Ok, so it does everything, it’s a wonderful box and all that but what fun is a radio without one knob or meter?
The Vanguard is truly a strange looking thing, anyone have a picture of what's inside it? I have been doing broadcast stuff for a while now and never seen anything like it. When was it produced? Must have been what was between the Gates/Harris BC series and the MW series.

What?  ;D This thought pattern throws me for a loop! Are you suggesting that if we want to talk about non BC rigs that we take it to another thread? I like all of it, BC Military, Class E and yes Flex radios!! Except for the Smug operators and not the transmitter itself, all is great! Ok, now I am going back into the AM closet ;D ;D ;D

 

The 300G is laid out nicely with tubes, coils, crystal oscillators in front behind a large door, and the iron and other goodies in back. The only PITA issue with it is the feedline arrangement, which requires removing one of the side panels to service. The side panels are actually two separate pieces which must be the better part of 200 lbs or more, and close to 7 feet tall. And the clips used to hold them in place at the front are interesting, too. Fortunately the side panels shouldn't need removing too often.

I'd say the TMC 10K or any unit built for SWBC would be in the same category as BC transmitters, unless you throw in the HiFi aspect. Not sure they were designed for that, though are probably capable of decent fidelity. Johnny's GPT-750 sounds nice on the air. Wouldn't surprise me if they had been used for broadcast purposes at some point as there are numerous stories and examples of the KW-1 being pressed into service for broadcasting in different banana republics, as well as by at least one bible thumper group for SW use (they actually had two of them). But neither fall into the BC category beyond incidental.


Yep. They used Fo-FoHunnerts originally, but Robert's rebuilds take the term 'Voice Modulated Carrier' to new levels. Hey, if you're gonna do it, do it big!

I drew a response from Mike in a similar thread a couple years back when I nominated the Vanguard as ugly duckling. So I refrained this time because Mike is a great guy who's done well to get his Vanguard into top shape by the looks of it. It's a pretty cool concept actually, I think the execution was just off a bit. Heard different stories from the economical design being made primarily for small stations with low budgets or as back up transmitters.

But the visual still nagged at me, couldn't nail it down beyond one of those 60s jukeboxes in a backstreet bar. Then while traveling recently, it hit me: it looks remarkably like the ice machine in a hotel I stayed at. Just a tad smaller.

Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder. Just ask some of the wooden radio guys what they think aesthetically of those gray and black boxes we call receivers. "Too industrial looking", "too cold", "no personality" "no style" are just a few that I've heard over the years. Kinda how I feel about plastic radios, go figure.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Technically, the BC-610 might legitimately be classified as a broadcast transmitter. More than few were said to have been commandeered into broadcast service by US forces shortly after V-E and V-J day, to provide news and entertainment for members of the occupation forces, the embryonic stage of AFRS. That supposedly was the reason for the 1.0-1.5 mc/s and 1.5-2.0 mc/s BC-610 coils. The original military coils nominally reached down only to about 2.0 mc/s. Hams used them with the 50 pf fixed vacuum padder in place to cover 160m.  I came upon a box full of those MF coils at a hamfest years ago. Re-built a couple to make a 160m grid coil for my homebrew HF-300 rig, and let Roger, N4IBF(SK) have a  couple for his BC-610. He used them on 160 without the additional plug-in fixed vacuum cap. I still have 2 or 3, intact, in my parts collection, if the plastic supports for the air-core windings haven't completely self-destructed.

Maybe there are still some WW2 vets around who could tell more of the story, or perhaps some our military radio buffs?

w0vmc Collins 20V is my favorite.  The Western electic at Ni6Q is also high on the list.

http://www.qrz.com/db/NI6Q

The western electric certainly is pretty! But I still stand by the straight forward design of the RCA; The Western Electric almost looks too fancy for a broadcast transmitter, maybe like it should be in a drug store?
I got into radio when I was in high school back in 77/78 and at that time the FCC had removed the requirement for the control operator to be able to see the transmitter while on the air. It was before my time but have been in old stations where the air studio looked thru a window on the transmitter room and maybe when the FCC removed the requirement to see the transmitter that put a end to the pretty boxes like the Western Electric, chrome like on the Gates and RCA and huge rounded body panels like the Collins? Almost surprised the Collins twenty series did not spout fins and tail lights.

Funny Todd, I have no idea how many of those motel ice machines I have seen in the past 28 years of business travel and I never put that together myself. Your right! All it's missing is a pull handle in the middle and a scoop.  ;D I thought it looked like a slot machine missing the pull handle and the window for the spinning drums.

I have to admit the Vanguard-1 isn't a slam dunk for a ham conversion but at the end of the day it is a kick a$$ AM or SSB amp. Think of a Henry 8K on steroids and add another few extra db.  ::) But of coarse all that extra power goes to waste because we have rules to follow here, right?

Sure, it's ugly but it's in my basement so I have to defend it. I wish I had a picture of the original for a side by side comparison so you could see the beauty treatment it received. Some would say lipstick on a pig.... but it is one of a kind for now. I don't know of anyone else that has given a Vanguard-1 a try so it must be given just a bit of respect, right?

I'm going to have to PM Steve and have him add a line in the AMFone rules "And don't dis Mikes Vanguard-1 or your out on your but!" Something like that.

I think I have told this story here before; certainly a few times on the air:  when I was a kid, maybe around 13, I got my parents to stop in Cairo IL on one of our trips south to see the grandparents.  The reason was a small radio station by the side of the two lane highway going into town.   They had an unlamped unpainted tower, probably R25, 90 degrees and fed with RG8.  At the age I was, I did not know all this but put it together later from memory.  They had to be up high on the bc band for they had an unpainted stick.  I somehow recalled they were a 250 w. daytimer. 

The whole operation was in a small one story building--a reception area, room with a wire service printer clanking along, one basic announce booth with a small board, mic and turn tables and another studio with a piano.  You could see everything through windows and there wasn't much going on but they were on the air with something, maybe a tape.  I don't recall talking to anyone but I remember I was able to open the front door and walk in and see the transmitter.  It was a BC-610.  I did not realize it at the time, but later I remembered that's what it was.  I didn't hang around long; only a few minutes unfortunately. 

The 300G is pretty hard to beat. I tend to like the 30s and 40s BC rigs with their art deco styling to the 50-60 item which appear plain and industrial looking to my eye.

It was for selling air time too. Clients would come visit a station and look at the Art Deco and think that it was a real high class radio station......Everything in even today's b'cast environment is flashy with extra lights and pretty sliders and wood trim. I'm sure a station today pays big dollars for the "studio furniture".

To Mike/BAC..

Just thumbed through your webpage and I have to say, VERY nice equipment. What I didn't see was the time machine you used to fetch this awesome 212b? I want to get one of these before I die. Love that console.

(http://www.w8bac.com/images/shack/console.jpg)

At least you have a sense of humor about it, Mike. Always a plus. I will say that yours is the nicest one I've ever seen. And let's keep in mind that there are plenty of other rigs out there that are well-regarded but wouldn't win any beauty contests. The R-390 family, T-368, late model BC-610, and KW-1 come to mind. Very industrial looking. So long as you like it, that's what counts.

The Vanguard is in a class all its own. I bet there weren't many sold. So the one you're preserving is important to the overall picture with the 20Vs, Western Electrics and so on. Besides, as Jared points out - the 212B more than offsets any perception of the uglys.

Hmmm......a Vanguard clause.....something to think about. Invoked in defense of the Obscure, Unheard of, Ugly ducklings, etc. Could be fun. ;)

With the state of public education these days that doesn't sound good! ;D

The Vanguard ought to go over big with the Good Buddy crowd. It already operates in leen-yar service, and has just the look that would appeal to the chickenbander. That one big tube and power supply would make a CBer cream in his jeans, basically needing only to replace the MW tank and grid circuits with something that would work on 11m, plus adding a SO-239 somewhere on the rear of the cabinet to accept the rf from the radio.  Operating class-A, a normal 5-watt good-buddy rig should have sufficient output to fully drive it.

two probs for CBer:
1:
<<basically needing only to replace the MW tank and grid circuits with something that would work on 11m,>>

2:
Stock it's not class C.  CBer won't be happy until it is putting out 5 to 10 KW as a class C PA. "Linear" is only a name on 11.  (and in some cases on the ham bands).

Hi Jarid, and thanks for the compliments. The 212B-2 works so well and looks really nice inside and out. It is a real pleasure to use. Originally every balanced input and output had to be hardwired to a terminal strip inside the cabinet. Any changes required clearing the desk and pulling out the mixer which wasn't much fun so I built an XLR breakout box. Now if I want to add a mic or move audio around it is a breeze.

I found it in the K7YOO bat cave. I think Skip has the time machine. I'm always blown away when I walk through his collection. Skip had two Collins boards at that time. One was a 60's vintage which I almost bought. Than I took a closer look at the 212B-2. I never regretted the change.

It took quite a bit of work to iron out a few power supply and relay problems and fix some wiring problems. Thanks again.


Any Chickenbander with messy jeans that could figure out how to put a Vanguard-1 on the air on 11 meters (regardless of the class of operation) would be welcome at my place, after he changes his clothes. Gates used an SO-239 originally. I think our hypothetical CBer will need a bit more than a 4 watt driver  to tickle the 4CX3000A to rated output on 11 meters however.


Hay Buddly, I found myself sitting in the principals outer office many times waiting to find out how much trouble I was in. In a way I was in a class of my own doing.  ;D

Hay Todd, You just keep on stirring up the pot, don't you?   ::)

It's looking like being a Vanguard owner is a bit like being a Studebaker enthusiast. Since my friends with R-390's, T-368's, BC-610's and KW-1's are thought of in the same way I'm going to have to start an ugly duckling support group. As a matter of fact we are already talking about making terms like "Very industrial looking" and "Ugly Radio" illegal Hate Speech.

Looking forward to hearing all of you on this fall

Mike

Being on the football team saved me many times. That's where I learned about perks!

Maybe for the same reason that 160m is usually sparsely populated, even on winter weekend nights when conditions are excellent. Yet, whenever there is a 160m QuaRMtest on, whether CW or slopbucket, big, strapping signals seem to come out of the woodwork to create at least as much congestion on that band as we ever hear on any of the HF bands, often packing solid the lower half, and sometimes a large part of the upper half as well. Those guys must not only be running a lot of power; they have to have excellent antenna systems as well, and had to have put a lot of work in their stations since it takes a lot more to put a strapping signal on 160 than it does to put out one on the higher frequency bands. But they appear to fire up those stations only a handful of weekend nights out of the entire year. What are they doing the rest of the time?


I couldn't imagine putting that much effort into a station, and then rarely using it.

(One possible explanation) Maybe the rest of the time, they are pecking away at the computer keyboard visiting ham radio message boards.  :D

Good Buddy Crowd huh..? I don't think so not enuff channels and they don't go Above..  :-*


73
Jack
KA3ZLR

I put a lot of work into the radios but only use them occasionally. I was sufficiently inspired by that comment to fire up the RCA and call a couple CQ the other night and then the night after there was a conversation going on but never got the opportunity to get in. Never been one of those Hams who gets on and talks for twenty minutes solid, myself run out of things to say after giving QTH, type of rig and the like. Maybe if it's another technical person will talk transmitters but that’s it for me. Good thing were not required to operate a cretin amount of hours per month to keep the license. One look at the shop and you can see there is no shortage of radio projects. But maybe I have a shortage of things to say.

You can always get on 75m slopbucket. You'll have plenty of opportunity to expound on the condition of your prostate, the results of your most recent colonoscopy, your blood pressure and cholesterol numbers, and any recent or anticipated surgeries.

If you carefully zero-beat, you might even be able to sneak into the conversation with AM, and they won't know the difference. Ask Ken, W2DTC.   ;D

Takes the right QSO.
 
As with any conversation, some just don't catch fire like others.

Firing up the station is a good first step. You can't play at all when the tubes stay dark. And now, with this cold front coming in, that hot-dust-on-glass aroma may inspire you.

That is a really nice looking shack Ray. I look for fun factor and I'm sure I would have fun twisting dials and flipping switches at your place. Nice job!

Mike

Yeah I'm sure that's why so many were set up that way, because the overnight jock with a 3rd Class endorsed (element IX) would have to take transmitter readings.

But I don't think the transmitter manufacturers crafted style into their boxes just to entertain the jocks.

Some old-time engineers I used to work with told me station SALES people, those who sold commercial air time, would often provide tours to potential advertisers. They could see, and hopefully be impressed by, the formidable, tangible thing called radio. 

It was a problem to compete against newspapers, since a client could SEE and hold the ad.  Radio ?  Not so much.  SO an impressive transmitter facility indicated a station's commitment somehow.

That's well put Paul. The styling of the early transmitters was done for a reason and the notion of increased ad sales has been touted for as long as I can remember but the concept, considering newspaper advertising vs radio ads puts it into perspective for me. For those business owners of the time looking through a window at what must have seemed like impossibly large tubes lit up brightly must have (hopefully) made an impression. The average person of that era might have an idea of what a radio receiver looked like and the look of a kilowatt transmitter, studio and antenna might have been very impressive.

By the way, I haven't voted yet. My favorite BC transmitters are the early Western Electrics as mentioned above and the 20V, -1, -2 and -3. You can't beat seeing the Eimac 4-XXX's rf and modulator tubes and the 4 mercury vapor tubes pulsing to the music.

Mike

Here are a few pictures of my Absolute Favorite Transmitter. I found it in Hermitage,PA at WPAC. It is a Western Electric 443A-1. Eat your hearts out!  

A few more shots. Notice the heavy nickle plated door pulls in the center and lower middle and the round portholes at the mid section for viewing the MV tubes.

Major wood on the Western Electric.........WOW those pubes...

Looks like still in a TX site..........Hermitage Pa.....hmmmmm 20 minutes away from me.

I thought I had seen that one before. Barry's site !
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/we.htm (http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/we.htm)

Notice how it was built into the wall in that picture, extending all the way to the right. There's also a framed photo to the right side of the transmitter showing, what else, the transmitter !  Maybe that was taken when it was nearly new, and here you were, watching the loyal soldier still on duty.

I've seen one in person, for a few years, every day.

I may have told the story about how a guy who was an assistant to the assistant part-time engineer was allowed to store one of these in the back transmitter room at the radio station where I first worked.

I was extremely impressed at the huge round meters, the "teardrop" needle indicators, the barn doors with observation windows, and the overall mass of the thing.  I never saw it lit up, and I don't think it had a set of tubes, but wow, was it massive.

That same guy, the assistant to the assistant, later threw a Raytheon RA-1000 at us from another little station near here. That was the infamous wife-on-the-front-lawn, blocking the way as we tried to sneak it into a certain someone's basement in the rain and under cover of darkness.

Hi Fred, Meet Mr Wes Boyd (picture below). He is the CE for WPIC AM and WYFM as well as a dozen others in the area and a good friend of Barry Mishkind. The transmitter is headed to a museum if it ever leaves the site so long as Wes and the GM have anything to say about it. I had to endure 6 months of emails and phone calls to just take pictures of it. It was a memorable afternoon at the studio. Radio history in every direction.

Yup.  You first saw Ser. No. 33 at WUST in Washington, D.C., when you, Fred and I were trying to figure out how not to bust a nut getting it out of the projection room in the loft over the movie theater.

Then you saw Ser. No. 22 here at the house, that I got from WYRE Annapolis a year or two later.  Never did get that one tuned up right and on the air.

Here's Ser. No. 147, the one from WFOY St. Augustine.  It's been on the air from the museum, but I'm still strugglin' to get a receive station up. LOTS of generated electrical noise around the site, uncontrollable, with power lines at the street, ugh. 

What do you use the 11/23 for? Real computers is something to talk about..

The PDP-11 project is one of those things that serve no purpose beyond just wanting to do something. Back around 79 or so I had a PDP-8 that I got in a trade and traded it for something else, think maybe an S-100 system. Over time keep thinking about the old PDP so one day decided I want to build up a pre DOS computer system. With the PDP-8 systems selling for stupid money ended up building the 11 instead. That system has the five Meg RL-01 hard drive using RT-11 operating system along with two eight inch floppy drives. Spent around two or maybe three years buying parts, building cables, repairing drives and maybe the hardest part for me learning assembler and RT-11 but now can do simple things like copy and format disks along with loading my copy of Dec Basic and running basic programs. The web page on the 11 is:
http://staff.salisbury.edu/~rafantini/pdp11.htm
Have a couple YouTube videos of it up also, think maybe I will do a quick YouTube video for the RCA transmitter this weekend. Although some may think it looks like an industrial furnace, have to admit that I do think the Western Electric transmitters are something to look at. Not just the outside but the insides and construction techniques are incredible. If I had to pick a favorite of what's been shown it would have to be the WE stuff.
Wasn't I supposed to send you some HV cable? Do you still need it? Can go over to the TV transmitter at lunch today and pull it out and send it.
Ray F

I miss Fortran IV.

I'm kinda partial to the Raytheon RA-250 and RA-1000.  Built like the proverbial brick outhouse!

At one time the FCC did not allow remote-controlled unattended transmitters, so smaller stations had the studios at the transmitter site, allowing the announcer/DJ to serve as control operator.  I have seen photos of early BC stations where the transmitter and announcer  were all in one big room.

That wouldn't work very well with most BC rigs.  For one thing, they are too noisy.  Transformer talk-back/acoustical feed back, acoustical hums and buzzes, clanking relays, etc. Not to mention the heat  they  give off that would make the announcer's studio unbearably hot to sit for long shifts.  So they put the transmitter in a separate room with its own ventilation system, with the large sound proof plate-glass window to isolate the transmitter with its noises and heat from the rest of the studio.

When I got the BC1-T up and running on 160m, I found it almost impossible to use because the mod reactor talk-back sounded like a small speaker inside the transmitter cabinet, the contactor relays buzzed like a chain saw and the fans sounded like a vacuum cleaner, all running at the  same time.  I eliminated the talk-back by replacing the stock open-frame reactor with a potted one. The relay system was converted so that the coils operate on DC. I took the fans off 230v and connected them to the 115v tap; they run OK at reduced voltage and still run fast enough to cool the transmitter, but are barely audible.  In addition, I added a toggle switch in a blank hole in the front panel that allows the fans to be turned off entirely. Most of the time I operate the beast without the fans.  With intermittent amateur type operation and normal ambient temperature in the shack, convection cooling is plenty sufficient for the 833As.  About the only time I use the fans is on rare occasions when I fire up the rig in summer months.

Even though they look "cool", I doubt that I would bother with a Continental or W-E transmitter running in linear or grid modulated service, since I QSY a lot, and low level modulated finals are more complicated and critical to tune up than are those running in plate modulated class C service that just require a few dips and peaks. 

I recall taking transmitter readings in the early 80s when I was DJing, Don. Can't remember how many times each night (I did a 4 hour show unless the next guy didn't come in, then it was a loooong night), but I do remember the clip board and form with columns for specific meter readings, time taken, etc.


No sir, not me. Making an overall statement of opinion on rig beauty vs utility, actually. In fact, I don't think 'ugly' is a fair term for the Vanguard. Perhaps a better description with be 'Transmitter that looks the least like a transmitter'. It actually has a rather stylish 60s look to it. I like the BC-1T too, triangular window and all.

Having owned or currently still owning all of the above except the Vanguard, it never bothered me. I always figured we were all a little whacked for hauling home someone else's trash and making a hobby out of operating something that most folks only listen to. ;)

It's all good. And I agree, Jay - those Raytheon transmitters are things of beauty with the tu-tone paint scheme, banks of meters, and all that heavy duty chrome. Viewing windows are nice, but as you and others have found out - not a requirement for enjoyment. Your closed circuit TV monitoring arrangement was far cooler!

In the old days you were required to take meter reading every three hours and do a full proof every year. Also to have base current readings taken at the base of the tower that involved pulling big switch at the ATU that was  hot to insert the base current meter in line with the tower then switching it back out when finished. I have done this myself with one and five thousand watt AM stations and it can be hairy but often wondered what it was like for the engineers who had to do this on the 50 kW stations. There was a requirement that the control operator had to be able to visually see the transmitter while on air so that resulted in the windows into the transmitter room but all that went away when the FCC decided you no longer needed a first phone and later allowed you to run in unattended mode. By the time I started working in radio most of the rules were gone and now you don’t need a commercial license, third class permit or anything, anyone can go in and be an engineer. About the only thing the FCC gets worked up about are tower lighting and EAS compliance and the stupid, useless public file. In thirty years I have never heard of one case where someone came into a station and asked to see the public file but that's always is the first place the field inspector goes. Speaking of inspections I have not seen anyone from the FCC in about five years now, we have a thing where the corporation hires a outside expert to come in and do the inspections and gives us a letter that we are supposed to give the FCC if they did show up. The private inspections are way more detailed and exact then the FCC ever was.

That was a major problem for us at the little 3 KW ERP FM I worked at around 31 years ago.

It was a small commercial property in Mississippi just south of Memphis on 95.3.  We were out in the country with a 300 foot guyed tower, and a 3 bay circularly polarized dipole antenna side mounted.  Our tx was a Gates; don't recall the model but I think it put out 2.5 KW with a single tube, 2500 or 3 KW dissipation.  We had a box fan on top of the cabinet to help pull air up and out.   Announce booth on the other side of a window from it.  Small board, two turntables, couple of cart machines, tape deck and processing rack.  That was about it.   Feedline was 3 inch heliax with nitrogen.

I was told by the GM that the whole expense of getting a firm to do the engineering, handle the CP application, cost of building the site, i.e. everything to sign on, was around $250K.  That was in 1979.  Then we had to start making money, which we did, sort of, barely.   (While our non-com listener supported brothers down the road below 92 had the most lavish setup you could imagine, but that's another issue.) 

It was incredibly difficult to get small business owners who were new to broadcasting, to understand the difference between print and broadcast radio, and take on a schedule of spots.   Our worst competition was newspapers, not other stations.

That has to be one of the hardest sales jobs there is, selling radio time to small business owners who can get half a page in the local newspaper for what your break-even rate is.  And that was before the internet, etc we have today.

It's surprising there are still small stations on the air.

Actually, the control operator at the physical transmitter site requirement was eliminated first, allowing remote-control operation from a studio usually located downtown while the unattended transmitter site was out in the country or somewhere at the edge of town. The control operator, usually the DJ/announcer who was  required to have a 3rd class FCC radiotelephone permit, was supposed to take the remote meter readings every 30 minutes IIRC and record them in the transmitter log (but usually he simply took a reading or two during his shift, and faked the rest). The station was still required to have a first phone chief engineer on the payroll, on standby duty at all times when the station was on the air.

Sometime in the early 1980s while the government was on one of its deregulation kicks, the first phone CE and 3rd class control operator requirements were eliminated, allowing anyone to walk in off the street and be hired as a "technician" at a broadcast station.  Most stations got rid of their CE, and depended on a "contract engineer" (usually living out of town) to come get the station back on the air whenever something major crapped out.

To-day's solid state transmitters, unless they get zapped by lightning, are much more reliable than the older tube types and require less routine maintenance, so the chief engineer on duty has largely gone the way of the dinosaur.

Hey man.. :)

 The bestest looking transmitter is the one that's Paid for...Yessum  :)


73
Jack
KA3ZLR

Don, The modulation reactor in my BC-1G was a potted one when I acquired the transmitter.  The contactors produce very little audible buzz operating on AC, so I left them alone.  Since the original fan was shot, I replaced it with a whisper fan running on 120V.  Everything runs quite cool at 350 W carrier.  Jeff W9GY

Ah but I almost forgot to nominate the General Electric BT-20A, the "refrigerator transmitter" with a pretty chrome handle just like their premium kitchen line.

Sorry I don't have a shot with the door closed, but you can clearly see how this fine transmitter enhances the decor of any home.

Here, an appliance salesman prepares the unit for delivery to a new home.

(the real estate agent agreed that in this case "appliances do not convey")

Paul,
A classic picture for sure.  Those pictures mean more and more as time goes buy.  We tend to collect those audio files but the pictures are FB as well.
Joe, GMS 

Hello Ray,

Thanks I am good on the HV cable. I used "outdoor luminous sign" cable. I had asked for more flexible wire because the head has to be easily picked up and moved by hand, but it has turned out that once the cooling hoses, control cable, and these wires are all shoved into an outer nylon web, the 'stiffness' of the HV wire is only a small part of the overall umbilical. However it turned out to be flexible enough, so all is well. I made it longer than necessary so the part than hangs down can form a 'loop' about 18" diameter with no stress. I'd wanted a 8" loop but that was not realistic.

Thank you,
Patrick

Yer right Joe.  My earliest radio pictures include Roger WA3FLE, now gone, Dave, K3ZRF, now gone, and of course the Derb, above.

Not to be too morose but yes, it makes me appreciate the time we have left. It's hard for me to square that up with the feeling I'm still 34, or so.