The AM Forum

The past few years I have increasingly heard slopbucketeers use the expression "the working conditions here are..." when describing the operators station set up and NOT the conditions of propagation or one's employment. I have never heard the expression used on AM.

Some have suggested that this is an example of "phony operating" and although it does seem to have that ring to it, I am not so sure. Back in the late 60s at the peak of Cycle 20, I operated a good few times on 10m from East Africa using SSB (I was at the mercy of another operator's station that had no AM capability). I often QSOed in French with French amateurs, and the most commonly used expression for describing the station equipment was "ici les conditions de travail, c'est...." Translating to English,  "The working conditions here are..."  I suspect the expression found its way into English from French-speaking amateurs, perhaps as they worked DX using English, translating the French expression word-for-word. Hearing the expression often enough, English-speaking hams picked it up and began to use it. Contrary to widespread belief, I don't think the expression originated from CB. To my ears it definitely has a "phony" ring to it in English, but sounds perfectly normal and acceptable in French, probably long existing in French-speaking amateur radio jargon.

Similarly, I recall the French expression (on phone) for giving one's name, "Le nom de l'opérateur est..." (The name of the operator is...). Eventually, that worked its way into English CW usage.  To-day, it is very common to hear "OP" followed by the first name, rather than "my name is" or "NAME HR IS..." OP is short and to the point. The first time I ever heard it on CW I immediately knew exactly what the sender meant to say. If I hadn't already been familiar with the French expression it might have taken me a little while to catch on.
 

I can't remember when I first heard the phrase 'working conditions".  However I find it to be quite apt.

There is no question that I first came across "Name hr is" in ARRL study material sometime in the mid to late 1980's.  It struck me as odd phrasing and never came up in contacts before then.

b.

heheheh....   Yep, "The working cornditions here are..."  is a very common phrase when working European DX.  The eastern Europeans use it a lot as well as the Italians and many of the other non-speaking-English countries.  Of course most DX speaks English on the air and look for easy phrases.  It has become an automatic riff of recognition. I sometimes axe DX guys what their rig is. They often axe for a repeat. Then I'd axe about their working conditions, getting an immediate response.

When working DX, Huzman and I have some fun and say things like, "The working conditions here are very bad, since I'm still in prison doing hard labor. I'm operating the inmate club station. My parole is coming up soon, so working cornditions will improve then - thank you for axing."   ;D    

T

On AM I just say: "The call here is KB3AHE, and my name is Frank."
"the rig here is a Homebrew 4-1000 and the receiver dujour is xxxx"
And then carry on the QSO as if they are sitting in the room with me.

Why the hell bother with all of all of that "hamspeak" crap when you are on phone.
Especially if signals are big and the copy is good.

To me, "operating conditions" I would expect to hear something like
"got a 30 over noise level and 40 over static crashes"

"Working Conditions" might be OK when communicating with someone who has very limited English since it may be one of few phrases that they understand. Otherwise SSB DX hamspeak tends to get nauseating after a while. ...


QSL!
My name Sam.
Working conditions here, 100 whiskeys and G5RV.
You are five and nine in New Jersey my friend.
Big signal here.
I will say 73 my friend, many calling. Enjoy the pileup.
Microphone to you my friend ...
QSL?


 ::)

aside from cw terms, that have crept into the jargon, i dont understand, why some hams speak the way they do...would you, meeting someone in person say " the name be jim ", etc?...

..sk..

A CB speak that you hear quite frequently on the higher HF bands lately, usually by new operators form down south is "The personal here is Chris" instead of "The name here is Chris"  or "The handle here is Chris".  "Handle" of course used to be big on CB, where it came from earlier ham use, and I believe, orignally came out of land line  telegraphy, where messages were actually "handled"....I never have heard anyone actually send the word "handle" in lieu of "name" on CW though...no doubt because "name" is shorter to send.

I would have thought "working conditions" referred to the guy's shop where he builds stuff.  Maybe it's because that's what's on my mind now.

BTW I looked at the phony op qrz thread and I see gibberish over there I don't understand, that's in a lot of posts.  example:  IB4TL X2????

what the **** does that mean?  are these people hams? 

when I first got back on the air "radio" for rig drove me nuts.  To me a "radio" is the bc rx in the bathroom.  Now I am using it to refer to a rig also, much to my annoyance when I catch myself doing that.

The latest thing to annoy me is calling a feedline jack, usually a UHF female on the back of the rig, the "antenna port."  I think that comes from the computer world.   

Don, you have your balanced antennna port on your 75  m. radio.

IB4TL is an acronym meaning "In Before The Lock." In Don's case, the same type of thread topic was locked once before, hence the "X2".

Ah, you have given me two more items to add to the list.  I'll eventually re-post the complete revised edition once new ideas cease to come in and I can't think of any more myself. The total count right now is exactly two dozen items.

Another one that I just thought of, is when "dot" is used instead of "point" to describe decimal fractions, as for example, the AM calling frequency on 20m is "fourteen dot two-eighty-six" instead of "fourteen point two-eighty-six"

Before I can actually use the new OWL, I have to design and build a new matching network to go between the transmitter(s) and the line, and revise the tuners out in the dawg house for 450Ω (actually 438Ω) balanced input instead of 50Ω unbalanced.

I run across that "my personal is" crap a lot on 10 and 6 AM and SSB from the no code Techs. My reply is "Only my girl friends know my personal but my name is Carl" ;D

The dot usage in that context most probably has evolved from the dot com world of the Internet. 

The military typically uses "decimal" and "tack" as in "fourteen decimal two eight six, or "fourteen tack two eight six".  For some reason tack seems to be common in the Navy when reporting things like compass bearings.

Yeah Chris, hearing the Coast Guard using "tack" all the time in GPS coordinates.

I just got a visit on board one of their cool little rubber boats.  Excellent ride.

Loc:
38*58.9, 076*20.5

http://boulter.com/gps/?c=38+58.9++-076+20.5#38%2058.9%20%20-076%2020.5

It is one thing to hear a foreign operator using such broken English, as English is not the world's easiest language to learn. For an American to speak that way is inexcusable. I did encounter the expression "working conditions" on AM a couple of years ago. Someone in W9-land asked me about my working conditions and I replied that I have a decent boss, the pay is mediocre, and my workload varies from day to day.

The best practice on any of our voice modes is to simply speak plain English. If you want to describe your station, just do so. "My name is" sounds better (and much less dorky) than "my first personal is", which totally reeks of CB. And Q signals belong on CW, where they save a lot of time and facilitate communications between operators who speak different languages. But on 'phone, they just sound dorky.

Many foreign operators try to learn English by contacting American, Canadian, and British stations. By speaking horrible, broken English on the air, you are doing them no favors.

K2PG said:
2 I have no problem with are; You're Q5 here unless it's followed up with, "I missed you name." The second is "QTF Man??"
 

Or to say "you're five-nine" but then have to ask for a repeat on everything.  QuaRMtesters are notorious for that nonsense.

I suppose "working conditions" could work its way into amateur radio jargon if enough people started using it after hearing it in DX contacts.  That's the way language works, especially English.  We have adopted a  lot of foreign words and expressions into our language when there was already a perfectly good Anglo-Saxon word.  Some examples: pig/pork, cow/beef.  Notice that "pig and cow" are the rough unrefined word used for farmers tending the live animals while pork and beef are the refined use of the meat served at the tables of the upper crust who could afford to eat butchered meat back in those days.

Another one of my pet peeves is the jargon word "elmer", which sounds kind of dumb or retarded to me, in place of the perfectly good, elegant English word "mentor".

The one expression that I hate above all other is "Near Miss" and is used often to describe airplane that almost came in contact with or almost collided with another. People with masters degrees in English think this is perfectly exceptable. To me it make no sense >:( >:( >:(

close proximity


co-conspirator



i really get upset with the above two words they dont  make sence to me like isnt' close and proximity mean the same thing and the co and conspiritor kinda apear redundant so why not like just say conspiritor and the same with close and proximity and i dont' reely get upset like it just be irritating that they like talk that way in the newspaper maybee we need an ap to fix this things JMHO


klc

I suppose it could be taken to be an expression of degree. For example, if there were a fire in "proximity" to your house, you might be inconvenienced by the smell of the smoke and the fire engines blocking the street.  If the fire were in "close proximity" to your house, the firefighters would be hosing down your house to prevent the exterior walls from igniting from the heat.

I agree, "co-conspirator" is like "frozen ice", "wet water" or "hot heat".

 I refuse to have that term associated with me. It reminds me of Elmer Fudd ::) or some bib overall wearing redneck  ;D

Or some guy with double-digit IQ sporting horn-rim glasses with coke-bottle lenses.

..don..."irregardless"...? ...

..sk..

From the Department of Redundancy Department:

>>Hot water heater<<

73DG

..that's a good one...at the local beer store.." black round tire gauge"..ok, cant say of the last time, i saw a tire that was neither black, nor round...

..sk..

How about "This is W6XYZ, for ID".  Why else would someone speak their call?

White tire:

(http://www.everybicycletire.com/shopping/images/PRODUCT/medium/2558.jpg)

..i still cant figure out the american hams...NO dis-respect when i say this...but WHY is it, that guys who ARE NOT transmitting, feel the need to announce their call signs?..i know, you guys have to state your call every 20 mins., but....if you are over at the bench, in the head, or making coffee, HAVE to put out your call?...ok, you made some comment some 20 mins ago, but now you are tending to fido...dumb..

..sk..

Ot the one I'm known for: "KB3AHE, 'cause it's been a while".....................

its every 10 minutes, but what i normally do if i'm doing break-in, every couple of times i make a transmission, i give my call, i may end up doing it about 2 or 4 times in 10 minutes. if i'm in a roundtable, i just give it after each transmission, that way if there are any whiners out there, they can't say  didnt identify, because i did after each transmission, its not like i when on for a few minutes, then someone else had it for 20, then i came back and gave my call, in that case it would have been longer than 10 minutes, and illegal by the fcc's rules.

Amateurs operating in the US need to identify every 10 minutes.  I think the operators who id every ten minutes whether they've been talking or not tend to be guys in sideband groups that dwell on one frequency every day for hours at a time.  I believe the primary reason is just so that they don't forget to id and perhaps run afoul of the 10 minute rule.   There usually seems to be one or two guys who are the timekeepers and when they identify everyone else chimes in. I operate out of Europe occasionally and I think that identifying every 10 minutes is much better than some of the guys I hear over there who show up on a frequency, BS for hours and then disappear without ever having identified.

I think another reason is that there are always one or two guys in each of these sideband groups that tend to monopolize the conversation and its a way for the other operators to say "hey you bozos, there are other people here"   :)
  

like i said....dumb.....some clown has not transmitted at all, BUT...it's 10 mins..a whole pile of guys suddenly have to transmit their call?...i guess you are in violation of you fall asleep, or answer the door, or whichever..

..sk..

During a big break in session people just jump in and don't spill their callsigns every time.  Usually there's one guy that keeps track of the time and IDs, so everyone in the session takes the opportunity.  It serves to announce who's still in the QSO, as people drift in and out.  Someone could have been sitting back for 15 minutes not saying anything, but announcing his call lets everyone know he's still there.

Dumb?   No, not at all.

Or, if you are in one of those God-forsaken "old Buzzard" roundtables with a handful of long-winded others making 20-minute monologues, and you dont ID at the end of your transmission, it could be an hour or better before you get another chance. This alone would put you in violation of the 10-minute rule.


I guess that is just another one of the reasons I like break-in so much.............................  ;D  ;D

and i've lisened in on some of those extended transmissions and even the guys making them don't ID at the end of it, and they had been going on for something like 10 or 20 minutes.

<<<Or, if you are in one of those God-forsaken "old Buzzard" roundtables>>>

That's why God gave us CCS Old Buzzard gear.   ;D  That fast break-in stuff must be an extra-midwest thing (thank God).

What's even worse is when you fall asleep and wake up some time later and the same guy is still yacking away  :o

OR


If Don is giving a dissertation about transformers  ;D  ;D  ;D

<SNIP> "That's why God gave us CCS Old Buzzard gear.     That fast break-in stuff must be an extra-midwest thing (thank God)." <SNIP>


Rob,
       Break-in is good exercise tor the for the fingers, keeps the mind sharp and the hand well-exercised. Just ask Ralphie (W3GL), he's got the fastest finger in the east! !   ;D  ;D

I have to admit Slab, that fast breakin does force one to build and perfect sequencing circuits (another thing I badly need to do).

There's old buzzard and there's old buzzard.   

Bad:  Guy running 50 watts to G5RV 20% copy talks for 20 minutes.

Good:  Strappers like Don and a few others who boom in with great audio.   I have no problem cranking up the p.p. amp and kicking back in rx mode.  But the difference here which I forget about is that the house is so small it is essentially a giant live-in ham shack so I can get up and go around the house doing things with the speakers in the basement booming away.  Under those circumstances the problem is usually that these guys in a roundtable don't talk long enough.

rob...that's what i like too...good audio, crank it up, and "listen" to nice clean b'cast type voice...not "quack-quack"..

..sk..

<snip> "Bad:  Guy running 50 watts to G5RV 20% copy talks for 20 minutes."<snip>

Rob,
       That is more commonly known as "the first rule of the piss-weaker".

Running break-in also gives the incentive to build a big strapping transmitter..........

Which is, The weaker they are, the longer they talk.

It's a little known fact that there is a US Government FCC dude on  every street in all towns and cities in the US.

That's why we ID so often.

And if it's not one of your neighbors, it could be you...

Really depends on the context, Tim. I'm guessing you mean 'during a conversation in progress', in which case I'd agree with Johnny's explanation. At least, that's when/why I do it. Sometimes the group gets rolling along and you get busy with something else, sometimes the group gets large and it doesn't get back around to you for a while. It's mainly a way of letting others know that you're still there, even if you're not participating at that particular moment.


Still working out that one myself, 2 mod transformers later.  ::) It can also be a good test of your patience.


Just like there's break-in and there's break-in. I think it was Ken/'DTC who once said to me "Have you ever noticed that the guys who complain the most about roundtables are the ones who talk the most and longest during break in?" Maybe they forget they're in a group or think that everyone else is expecting a reply only from them. I'm selective about joining break in sessions just for that reason: it seems to result in more repeats due to stations transmitting at the same time which gets tiresome before long. Not unlike a roundtable that grows to enormous size.

OTOH, getting in with a more balanced group(not necessarily mentally, mind you) results in a spirited conversation that moves along and yields a lot of enjoyment and entertaining moments. And as Slab sez, Ralphie is also known as 'Quick Draw' for his ability to key up before the carrier drops!  ;D

Frank said:
I had that happen once while in a QSO with Ozona Bob!  ;D

Me too.  I didn't fall asleep, but had to work the next day, so I left the station running while I went down and took a shower and laid out my clothes and stuff for the next day.  Returned to the shack about 45 minutes later and he was still talking. I figured someone else had called him after I left and continued the QSO. I decided to stick around long enough to sign out and say good-night. After listening a few minutes, I realised he was still making that same transmission to me.  I just picked up on a few things he said right at the end, commented on them, and signed out telling him I had to get the bed. He never knew I hadn't been sitting there listening to the whole transmission.

I most often work O.B. roundtable style, but also work fast break-in when the occasion arises. What I hate is those who finish a transmission in an AM QSO that is NOT operating fast break-in, then just drop the carrier with no prior warning like IDing or saying "over", "go ahead", etc., leaving the other operator(s) wondering if they lost power or the rig crapped out.

<<<Running break-in also gives the incentive to build a big strapping transmitter..........>>>

It does?   I don't see the connection between the two.   No offense, but fast break-in seems to lend itself more towards plastic radios driving leenyars (like what I have now).   

Big strapping tx makes me think of big relays settling in, a heavy maulish carrier faintly modulated by breezes wafting over the mic that are clearly audible before the OB begins his 45 minute transmission.

Its so you can strap Ralph, who has the reflexes of a cat when it comes to exploiting a dropped carrier in a breakin session  ;D

He woulda been outstanding at getting the hole shot in a drag race.

And then they can't remember who to turn it over to.

Sam, the SSB guys do that to "hold the frequency" so that no one takes it away....the bands are so crowded these dayzzz

I kinda agree.....The break-in is fine for some groups....I like the roundtable and there are some that make a nice transmission for a couple of minutes and turn it over to the next guy. Some even take notes for the rotation, (I try).
Break-in is fine for good condx and everyone easily heard. But someone is always going to get left out and will eventually leave the group. One benefit of 160M is that it is not always everyone hearing each other perfectly. The op who put the time into a good antenna build and running legal limit will have a better chance to be heard.
I would suggest "breaking in" after looking for a clear freq, and announce you are leaving the group and are QSYing and start another QSO. I don't think anyone would be offended.There may be others listening and will move also to join in YOUR new QSO.
Fred

Yeppir!! Thatz when you just "drop the maul" on them, strap them and get the QSO going again!! "BANG, lookie here; squashed just like a bug! ! ! "  :o  ;D


Sure, the connection is that if you have a big signal, you can sneak in a comment and be heard!! You cant do that with a piss-weaker, no one will hear you. All of my transmitters run full break-in capability including the 4X1 rig.


OOOooooooo! I hate that! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! they call themselves "rotationally challenged"
they talk so long that they forget who gets it next. Usually ending with something like
"You know who you are, go ahead and take it". That just nurks my nanny! ! ! That usually makes for a good time to bust the roundtable into a good break-in session! ! !  :o  ;D  ;D

With the 75m east-coast crowd (I include myself), all it takes is the right comment at the right time and all hell breaks loose and the fun begins  ;D  ;D

I find break-in works best in a one-on-one, or at most a three-way, when all parties have a specific topic to discuss, and you can toss it back an forth like a real in-person conversation.

A large break-in QSO is as bad as a large roundtable. With fast break-in, usually two or three members dominate the conversation, while the others just sit by listening, maybe injecting a comment every now and again, and inevitably two or more stations will end up transmitting on top of one another.

Regardless of whether it's break-in or roundtable, once the QSO grows beyond three or four, it's time for two or more of the participants to QSY to a near-by frequency and start a second conversation.  That keeps both groups reasonable in size, plus it makes for more AM presence on the band.

I can recall a group of about three who used to operate fast break-in back in the early 70s on 75m AM.  Don't remember who they were, but they had it perfected to an art.  Everyone had a good quality, strapping signal, and once they got going, it reminded me of a well-adjusted machine, with hardly an audible break in the carrier between transmissions, and rarely did they "double".

Another example of "phony" operating is someone who uses VOX with slopbucket, and makes "ahhhh" sounds between words to prevent the rig from dropping out of transmit mode.

I cannot understand why people want to make a 45 minute transmission in the first place. Perhaps I have a short attention span.It seems to me, the longer a transmission goes, generally the more boring it becomes. Some people are naturals at it. They must be very relaxed and most likely live to be 100. How old was Ozona Bob when he passed away? Probably 168? I only heard him a few times and I mean no disrespect to old Bob. Now in our area we have a few that can O.B. but only one comes close and that would be MTZ down in CT. HLR might be a close second but it's a toss up between him and Bob K1REC.

I guess the situation could be worst if it was someone you didn't like. When was the last time anyone was assassinated for making an old buzzard ;D ;D ;D

Terry,
         you're forgetting about 51w Phred. He can go on indefinately. I have strapped him many times just to shut him up. Him at the mike was a good time to go off and make coffee or something to eat. (or other things)  ;D  ;D

I sometimes try to make sense of these things and come up with scientific rules and formulas to fit... ;D

Here's one that may apply:

"The percentage of time spent by others replying to our comments is inversely proportional to the length of our transmission."


Example:

We ask a short, direct question - we get a comment back that relates 100% to what we just said.

We make a 20 minute transmission - if they're still awake, we get back a general patronizing reply that comments on <1% of what we just said - and then the subject gets quickly changed to something else.

Has anyone noticed this pattern?    ;)

T

YES! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

I have never in my life found a VOX circuit that worked okay.  I hate VOX.   there have been maybe three times in my life when I have tried it (usually for something to do) and the experiment lasted around 5 minutes before giving up on it.   It's like a restuarant you go to every 10 years.   After 10 years you forget how bad it is and go back, then re-learn how bad it is then it takes 10 years to forget....

Fast break-in must be hell on synch-detector receivers.

Most of the time I don't fault anyone for going on too long.    If I had a big rig my attitude would probably be summed up by, "I didn't park no 1 KW bc rig in here to make a 30 second transmission."  (or anything else that weighs more than 300 lbs.)  ;D   Also, in winter a lot of basement shacks need the OB heat.  You can't warm anything up with them fast break-in QSOs.   :D

If everyone is on or very close to the same frequency, no.  If one or more stations is on a different frequency, yes.  The Sherwood has an added feature called "AR" mode, which allows the BFO to lock more quickly to an off-frequency carrier.  Without that feature, you have to manually re-zero each time. But even in AR mode it can take up to several seconds if the station is far enough off  zero-beat, and in extreme cases, lock never occurs. With fast break-in, sometimes it takes the BFO longer to lock than the transmission lasts, or else you miss half the transmission waiting for the BFO to settle down.

I sometimes have a problem after calling CQ and someone responds with a half-second transmission, off frequency. I totally miss the call because the BFO never had time to lock. I usually stay in envelope detector mode when  calling CQ.

AM ops should be as conscientious as slopbucketeers about staying zero-beat with each other.  Exceptions: (1) when operating xtal controlled, and one or more xtals is slightly off frequency, and (2) the "exit stage left" strategy is engaged to dodge slopbucketeers deliberately trying to piggy-back ride the AM carrier.

Fun thread, waded through it all.

Don, you've mentioned sync det. playing havoc with roundtable break-in before too.  But the remedy of exact freq. sync flies in the face of using VFO's or SS equivalent as 'real' hams.  ... ahh, we can't have it all.  ;D

Besides, I like hearing the converging whistles for each participant, in my case from a SDR. ;D

-and another post intreagued me:

It's done as a courtesy to the other operator.

During a transmission that exceeds ten minutes, when the ID is given as above, it is a method to to inform the other operator that you are merely ID'ing and not preparing to hand it over to the other operator immediately.  The other operator might be busy sipping his Coke and you don't want him to spill it as he hurries to get into position to start his T/R switching sequence. He might even be soldering at his workbench, and  start to put away his soldering iron needlessly.

Perhaps we should get into the habit of saying "This is W6XYZ for ID "only" or "This is W6XYZ, over", rather than the generic "This is W6XYZ". That way, everyone might understand that there is a reason to specify you are ID'ing within a transmission or at the end of a transmission.

It's all so very complicated. That's why I'm giving up amateur radio.  No one operates the way I think they should.

I solved this problem years ago. I stay out of big roundtables (more then 2 stations), always keep my transmissions to 10 minutes or less, and try to stay away from stations who constantly ramble, mumble, and require the use of an unbelievable amount of words, phrases, jargon, etc. to explain/discuss even the most simple subjects. No wonder I like contests and VHF.  :D

Hey Pete!  You would get along great with JT-65HF :)

Half the time when I call CQ, I get a fast on the trigger one-call no repeat answer and if I am lucky I catch the last letter or the carrier as I am bringing up the receiver.   the assumption that everyone is instantly in full receive lightning fast is irritating. 

I try to give a two minute warning (two minutes in AM time is more like 5 minutes) when I'm about to throw the frequency back to the other station so that he has time to get back to his mic.  There's a local ham I work fairly regularly (except this summer the wx has been a significant disruption) and we often give each other these advance notices as a courtesy.   If I don't have to operate with cans on my head, I might be upstairs heating something in the microwave, or looking at something someone referred to on the internet, or looking up a circuit in a handbook and if I suddenly get called I have to dash back to the basement which I don't particularly enjoy.  If I wanted to stay glued to the operating desk I wouldn't have any speakers.

Another thing I try to do if I don't forget, is give an ending time in my CQing.  This is to let someone waiting to call me know that the CQ is going to really end and when.  My CQs usually run about 2 or 3 minutes.    This is to increase the chance of band cruisers hearing me when they tune across.   But people are so impatient they want a CQ to be over in a red hot second.  Saying "This transmission will end in sixty seconds" and eying the clock keeps them from losing patience and moving on (I hope).

I personally prefer break-in operation myself. One thing both am and ssb can both use is an infusion of "normal speech patterns". Talk to people like your in the room with them talking face to face. Radio replaces nothing but distance. If we were in person, and I hand you a beer that's 38deg, I don't need a 40 minute lecture on how you prefer your beer at 37.5deg. Tell me it sucks, and lets move on. Dominating the conversation is a form of narcissism and its unfair to the others who may have something to say. The speaker goes on so long and covers so many points in one transmission, that you lose your train of thought and forget what you wanted to say in the first place, so the entire transmission was a waste of everyone's time. It's not really a conversation, but more of a memory test.  Having to take notes is crap. I mean seriously, if your having a conversation with your family, do they all whip out note pads? Just talk to people like you would talk to their face. Some of the jargon I hear is unbelievable. Websters pretty much has it all covered, so we don't really need any home brewed words. (Destinated comes to mind. ::) )

Maybe Burts cynicism is wearing off on me a little.   

What has to suck the most is when someone uses VOX with full carrier AM, so that the carrier keeps dropping out with a "thump" between words and pauses.

I'm real impressed with "people" who join a QSO and then spend the next 5 minutes tuning up while everyone else listens to a dead carrier and the occasional mumbles, growls, or some other nondescript sounds.

And then there's the amateur who says he's signing off and then spends the next 5 to 10 minutes rambling on trying to find where to put the period to end. Reminds me of posters who seem to be "mind void" of any punctuation knowledge.

Whatever do you mean Pete

You should really live a little Pete.  Worrying about all the little things other people do or don't do and allowing it to ruin your fun must really suck.

Don, I had someone come back to me once on AM with the VOX engaged.  That was strange.  I told him he should probably disengage the VOX on AM and went on to have a pretty good QSO.

Well Put! ! ! !   OOOOOooooo........... I hate the term "destinated" and the phrase "how copy?"

I guess that's why we dont hear you on much, Pete.  ;D  ;D

Good one!!!! You do not need a microphone either!!!

I understand your point and this always comes up about break-in mode and roundtable. Both have good points and bad.
Roundtable, sometimes, not always, encourages endless blabbering and testing the Webster dictionary
Break-in mode excludes folks who cannot step on the PTT fast enough to get their $ .02 cents in and encourages the sound effects of bodily noises, which sound unprofessional on the air.
Sorry my opinion. I like the way it used to be from my early days of listening to AM Ham radio ops.

Fred

Digital modes can be great fun on VHF/UHF frequencies for working stations that you couldn't possibly hear if they were using phone. You also don't find very many wannabee comics operating those frequencies.

As I said in some previous post, I'm on almost every day but 75 and 160 were never high on my love list and even less during the summer months.

I have very little tolerance for amateurs who use the airwaves for their own personal stage of ramble or comedic nonsense or tend to act like idiots whenever they're on the air. My fun in the amateur radio arena can be measured in many ways. Zero tolerance for these types of people makes that go a long way.

With a good break-in group, If you have the right miscreants in the group, all it takes is the right comment at the right time and the QSO implodes into a massive free for all! Kinda like a scenario from the old computer game - "Doom"!  (Where you have to get through a whole room full of "monsters" and you put one shot over their head and they all kill each other)

All hell breaks loose and then the qso just explodes. Then the fun usually begins as the qso digresses into "another night in the trenches". By then I am usually ROTFLMAO! ! ! !  

But, you know, everyone had a lot of fun! !  (Including myself!)  ;D  ;D

Typically a few years ago a QSO would start on or about 3.885 just around dinner time. A few people in a round table. Then as the group started getting big, someone would suggest "the group's getting big, why dont we go break-in?" Then you would get a huge group doing break-in till the later hours. As the croud was thinning out and people were leaving for bed, it would slowly return back to a "somewhat" orderly roundtable format. Usually ending up in the wee hours as "the late night Frank & Gary show" or "The dead brain cell net", and rolling on till way way into the wee hours with different ones popping in from all over from time to time.

That was some fun operating.

My wife enjoyed listening to the carrying on of the break-in group so much that it prompted her to get a general ticket! ! !

The real shame of it all is that poor operating conditions, jamming, qwerming, and infighting basically brought it to an end.  

Pete, I thought  personal attacks were not allowed here. You described my operating skills or non skills right down to where the tire meets the road. That said,I wonder if there is a place where I can hide my shame :'( :'( :'( :'(

TO THE Hamster Hall of Shame!!!!

Pete, for Pete's sake, lighten up friend!  I can't help but notice lately how many of your posts are defensive.  Tolerance goes a long way towards personal happiness, especially when dealing with a diverse population such as amateur radio operators.

If you do not like "hamspeak" why say, the call HERE is", does it change when you go THERE?

Been enjoying personal happiness in the amateur radio arena for a long time. However, amateurs who act childish, foolish or moronic on the air will never get a "thumbs up" from me.  No "thumbs up" either for those amateurs who use amateur forums for their personal soap-box agenda as well as those amateurs who take to the air for their own personal gratification at the expense of others. Clowns should be in a circus not on our amateur radio bands.

I agree Pete.  Of course a worthy cause to many may seem to be someone on a "personal soapbox" to others.   If not forums, then where?

But if you go " THERE",  you'll still be "HERE".   ;D

Everywhere you go, THERE you ARE!

This is getting hard to follow.....geeesh

Just remember, "Where ever you are,,,,,,,you're there!"  ;)

Burt,
       Obviously, you have never been in QSO with me or even listened to me operate.
I will usually say "the call here is" or simply "the call is" and chase it with my first name.

You also obviously haven't listened to many (if any) of the AMers, most pretty much talk like they are sitting in the room with you. You obviously must hang out with sidebanders (which are a lower form of life). But.................If you are so offended just spin the VFO dial, or even better yet, the on/off switch. This is definately one time you arent going to be able to "stir the pot" with your sarcasm.

We do have fun on the air and anyone is welcome to join us. Most of us are like a big extended family, and that is something that many of the other groups resent.

As far as the here / there thing goes................. I give thanks everyday that I am still "here" because a year ago back in december I was "there" and somehow by the grace of God was able to make it back "here".

And you know................. It's good to be here! !  ;)  ;)

I'll talk the way I want to. If you don't like it there's the door!

And Frank, If you don't where you're going you may end up somewhere else!

Hmmmmm......................

I've left, and gone to find myself.
I dont know if I'm coming or going.
If I should return before I get back,
please ask me to stay................

 ;D  ;D  ;D

You know, kinda like stopping in to see what condition your condition is in..............

 ;D  ;D  ;D

You think a Johnson Kilowatt Matchbox is a "2.4 KW Tuner"

You refer to a DX 60 or a Yeasu FT 101-E as  a "Boat Anchor"

You refer to a rig like the Yaesu FT-901, Kenwood TS-820 or Drake TR-7 as "vintage" or "antique".

You refer to one's name as the "first personal" or just "personal".

You end a QSO with "Seventy-Thirds" or just "Threes".

You try to break into an ongoing QSO by shouting "Contact".

You finish an AM transmission in a QSO that is NOT operating fast break-in, and just drop the carrier with no prior warning like a callsign or saying "over", "back to you", "go ahead", etc., leaving the other operator(s) wondering if you lost power or your rig crapped out.

You pronounce QRZ.com as "CUE ARE ZEE dot com"

You "laugh" on phone by saying "High High" or worse still, "Aitch Eye".

You tell someone with a strapping signal he is "wall to wall, treetop tall".

You refer to switching over to AM  as "Going to the AM side".

You "ratchet-jaw", not ragchew.

You refer to a microphone with a built in preamp as a "Power Mic"

You try to whistle up your RF power level when running FM.

You insert "there" between every two or three words in your conversation.

You refer to the phone bands as the "SSB bands".

You refer to your home station as a 'base station'.

You call your transmitter or transceiver a "radio" instead of a "rig".

You believe the reflected power returns back to your final and makes the tubes run red.

You refer to standing wave ratio as "SWRs" [plural]

You use the word "dot" in decimal fractions instead of "point".

You call a feedline jack, usually a UHF female on the back of the rig, the "antenna port".

You report renewed sunspot activity when it is only sporadic E.

Your idea of calling CQ is to just say your call, then pause.

You use "QRZ?" in place of "CQ."

You test by uttering "audio, audio, aaaaaaudio".

You operate SSB using VOX, and make "aaaah" sounds between words to prevent the rig from dropping out of transmit mode.

You try to use VOX while transmitting on AM.

You refer to every RF power amplifier as a "linear" regardless of Class A, B, or C.

You pronounce linear "LEEN-YAR"

You think the ideal horizontal antenna is the G5RV, and the ideal 160m vertical is 43 ft. tall.


What others can you think of?

Are you telling me this ISN"T TRUE??? ::)

<snip> "What others can you think of?" <snip>

You use coax for your HF antenna feedline because you heard that ladder line radiates..........................  ;D  ;D

 It can't  ???

...or causes TVI.

Of course that one is now outdated, but widely circulated back in the day when TV was analogue and everyone picked up the signal from a rooftop antenna.

  Well,Burty  yes. When I operate  "here" at my station the call is KG8LB. When I operate "over there" at my buddy Sam's  station the call of course is different. The call there is AA8WL. When Sam is here operating my station, the call is again KG8LB. So he too says the "call here is..." Depends upon just where is here and where here is.



  Sounds like a soapbox worthy statement  ;)

Wait a minute.... back to this red tube stuff.

How come my tubes stopped turning red when I got my SWRs to go away, Don?

I don't use ladderline cause I don't want no criminals climbing into my winder!

But; but; but, you gotta hold the connector facing up when connecting or switching connections or all of the swrs will spill out of the end of the coax............ ;D  ;D

Red tube? ? ...........  ;D  ;D  ;D


www.redtube.com            

..i agree with don..but i actually heard  guy on ssb, say he would hold down the ptt (talk button) harder, " so maybe you will hear me better.."...

..sk..

Working conditions here:  shorts, a Tee shirt, an 807 and a soft chair ... Hi HI.

Don said, "   You might be a phony operator if... (v2.0)"

Doing a search on this forum for "leenyar" brings up 4 pages of posts.
Doing a search for "swrs" brings up 1 page of posts although at least 3 of them were posted by you repeating some of the same stuff you have on your list.

Also tried several other of your phases with similar results.

I guess by your measure, "might be a phony operator" even resides on this forum.

Of course, other places that might generate localized colorful AM-type expression and word lists, might consider AM'ers to be "phony", "mentally inept", or English language challenged.

See you on the flip side. It's also time for another hammer-down QST vs QEX discussion.

Bloom where you're planted  :P

about the only thing i can see that i hear over the air that kinda makes me go wtf. is a guy to whistle in the mic... its like i can see them, eyes glued to the watt meter, saying come on baby. 

I do not know if I worked you on 3885 or 1885 as I never heard of anyone with the name Bacon Slab. I have been on both frequencies plenty, ask WA1HLR. I believe in efficency in communication. Adding "here" or "For ID" are two examples of absolute waste of words. I highly respect most AMers, they are far above the usual breed of boring hams although I do not like the burping and the testing by yelling yea, yea, yea but whatever. I listen more than I transmit as I am different than most hams, that is if I have nothing to say I don't try to say it anyway.

While I was ratchet jawing on my ft-101 boat anchor the other night, I thought I saw the toobs in my leenyar turning red from the high swr's i was getting back off my g5rv. So I checked the connection to the antenna port just in case something was loose, but I didn't find anything wrong. I tried a couple nice long aaauuudios's into my base stations' power mic, but it took a nice loud whistle to really make the 500z's glow. I thought it might have something to do with the ssb bands, so I flipped it over to the AM side and turned the veefo to 3dot885 and yelled "CONTACT!". Another base station came back and said his first personal was Mark in Indiana. I took a look at the sunspot report to see if this was E skip or what, and I checked que are zee to see who the other station was. I told him I was having trouble with too much swr's on my antenna, but he told me that my g5rv was wall to wall. treetop tall into his vintage TS-820, hihi. I couldn't copy him well because he was using VOX and to keep from dropping his key, he would say a lot of "ahhh's" and "there's" which I found hard to copy. So after a couple more minutes I told him "three's", and I would talk to him later. Maybe I'll try a few whistles on FM just to see if there's still too many swr's on that band too.

Seventy Thirds,
Jared, "     " <<<Call sign should be inserted here, but wasn't used.

Burt,
      You are just a downer, man. All you do is bellyache about other hams. If you would get on a little more often, your opinions just might change a little. I probably listen more than you do. If I dont have much to say, I will usually shut the transmitter off, so I can get some work done on the bench. But.............. I dont consider it a waste of words to do a quick "drive by" and say hello to my friends before going back to the bench.

As far as the "Slab Bacon" thing goes, I have carried that monicre since the days of the old "AM Window" bulletin board. Everyone knows who I am, Timmy (HLR) was one of the ones that hung me with it years ago when myself and Derb were cuttin it up on 75 one night. For your records My name is Frank, and my call is KB3AHE. I have even put my home phone and cell phone number out over the air and posted them on this BBS. Could you comfortably do that? ?

In the last 2 years, I have stared death in the face twice, been through tremendous family turmoil and tribulations, and I still manage to stay upbeat, and light-hearted. (And still a bit ornery)

You expouse nothing but negativity to everything, especially ham radio. You are a downer, man. If ham radio bothers you that much, you should find another less stressful hobby, like watching paint dry. ;D  ;D

IF my late friend DERB could be reading this...........James Brown would be proud.

Don, what is the "exit stage left" strategy? I know well the tactic of "riding the wave".

Kinda like "Get the hell out of Dodge"   ;D  ;D

I believe that's a term of Timtron origin.

What it means is when you are in an ongoing AM QSO, and a nest of slopbucketeers decides to zero-beat the AM carrier frequency and attempt to carry on a conversation right on top of you, you QSY a kc or so, just enough to make a big fat heterodyne in the SSB passband with your carrier.  On 75m, most slopbucket is LSB, and most receivers tune lower in frequency as you rotate the dial to  the left (anti-clockwise), hence the term "exit stage left". I have heard the tactic used multiple times in a single QSO, and the slopbucketeers re-zeroed each time, until the operating frequency had shifted downwards 3-4 kc/s. Then everyone in the AM QSO quietly slipped back to the original frequency, leaving the slopbucketeers down the band, boasting of how they had "run the AMers off the frequency".   ;D ;D


You got me on that one.  You'll have to explain what it means.

or you can be like timtron and build an SBE which takes care of the slopbuckets automatically, since it would be impossible to zero beat a randomly changing frequency.

Good points about the receiver, Don.

Just to be sure - it's important to know that when listening on LSB, a carrier ABOVE the freq will not be heard because of the ssb filter attenuation. However, if a carrier is BELOW the freq, it will appear as a loud hetrodyne on LSB.  It's the opposite on USB.

This does not occur when listening on a standard receiver in the AM or CW mode with the BFO on - the carrier will be equally strong on either side.

The point is, I have heard ssb stations intentionally QRMing AM 75M QSO's  and the AMer's move up a kc to get in their face. On LSB, this is not "effective."  This results in no carrier heard on ssb. Even the audio is muted if the AM station is more than a few kc away up the band.  The AM station needs to be BELOW the freq to have an effect on LSB.

I'm not advocating Wally and Richard / AM conflicts - just want to give a head's up for informational purposes only... ;)

T

I don't advise walking round with a chip on your shoulder either, daring anyone to knock it off, but if we tolerate bullying by wimpily going away in the presence of deliberate heckling,  the QRMers have won and it will only get worse.  The best reaction is to simply ignore the offenders, but if they persist, defensive measures are in order. Exit Stage Left, for example.  Or strap softly and turn up the wick (and the audio to go with it).

The problem with the SBE is that the signal is even crappier to listen to than slopbucket.

That depends on the receiver, Don.
He sound quite tolerable on the Scott RCH and Hellismashers S38C.
The Drake R4A however doesn't handle it well and forget about using the SDR w/ stink detector.

..frank..i think burt's comment about never hearing if you, basically closes the case...he clearly does not listen...and by the way, seems to me there is more AM activity than the freqs he listed...hope to talk with you soon frank..

..tim..

..sk..

My location is easily found by looking up my call. My phone number is almost as easily found on Switchboard using my zip code.
You say I expose negativity? What do you know? Most of my ham videos are POSITIVE like Field Day and NearFEST. I have watched paint dry, but you call it contesting. I admire you however for what you have gone through. You are a better man than I.
Burt

I was thinking the same thing.

Happily, "Going through" just happens sometimes. Trying to get a loved one through is another matter.

I never paid attention to ssb vernacular, but heard "conditions here are" a few times today Thanks for bringing it to my attention so I can be annoyed by yet one more thing.

Is it really an annoyance or amusement? It is wrong use of speech, but a listener solely has the choice of being annoyed/amused or not. I chose to be annoyed then quickly relented and ignored it. It is no different for SSB users to make these things up that for others to make up words like pissolene or say "strap them" or whatever.

Just disregard them. People do that with posts all the time, maybe with this one as well.

I liked your post. I do not get annoyed by the rig HERE or the weather HERE is, there are important things in life to get annoyed about, nothing in ham radio rises to the level of that importance.
Burt

That's a great question Patrick! Personally, I find that at this point in my life I laugh about things I hear on the air more than ever before. It's very amusing (to me) when I hear some pompous ass using protocols and buzzwords to make every worthless transmission sound like "official high-priority traffic".

Jared's parody sounded very similar to some guy I heard on 20 meters several days ago. Every other word was a "radio-slang-buzz-word" from the "nonsense" category as he endlessly switched from "pross-ess-errrr on" to "pross-ess-errrr off". It was fascinating as he described the effect on his "A.L. Seeeeees", which were "swang-in' the meter to the max range" in both "wurk-in cun-dish-uns". I found that I couldn't tune away until he finally uttered that he had to "tur-mine-ate this contact to opt-oh-mize his wurk-in' cun-dish-uns".

Very amusing. Maybe W2OY had it right?

Rob W1AEX

Aitch-eye!  ;D

Okay i guess i'll be the curious one who bites:  what did he have right? 

Rob

Add to the list

Repeats everything two or three times.

Smacks lips

That sounds more like "Geezing"  ;D  ;D

Conditions can may it reasonable to repeat info HOWEVER on CW how about the ham that sends back to you everything you sent him such as, "FB ON UR FT=817  RUNNING 4.556 WATTS, OK ON UR WX WID LITE FREEZING DRIZZLE ES TEMP OF 31.223 F, FB ON UR AGE OF 77.2, AND BEING A HAM FER 45 YEARS, 10 MONTHS 4 DAYS OK ON UR XYL HAVING CANCER BUT UR SIG CAME UP TO 589 THAT MAKES UP FOR IT HI HI"

"Okay i guess i'll be the curious one who bites:  what did he have right?  "


w2oy

lids, kids and space cadets


klc

Kevin has part of it. The original W2OY (Mike Premus) was famous for his litany while calling CQ, which typically included the following disqualifiers to consider for anyone thinking about responding:

"No lids, no kids, no space cadets, no phonetic fanatics, no school bus riders, only class A operators please."

There is a tribute page to his cantankerous demeanor, complete with 2 sound clips caught by members of this forum, at the web page below:

http://hamgallery.com/Tribute/W2OY/

(Note: I incorrectly typed W9OY instead of W2OY above, so I edited the post to correct that. Apologies to Lee - W9OY who is a "fine business" smug Flex operator)

I'm not sure what his nationality was, but his name was originally spelt Primus. He reportedly changed the spelling to make it appear more "Anglicised". So therefore, even his name meant "Class A".


*Hence the term "Phony Operator"

There was a story about Mike written in The AM Press/Exchange by Richard Haungs, W2UJR (SK). According to Dick, who lived near him and had long known him personally, that was 90% put-on, and he was a nice guy in person who was actually friendly to local "space cadets".

He wouldn't talk to me because he said I was a "long talker" and he wanted "short talkers". IOW, he didn't like old buzzard transmissions.

i know all about W2OY but Rob mentioned W9OY.

 looks like w9oy dont' like no skool bus rider eather

klc

Don, I neglected to explain. "Riding the wave" is the CB term for exactly what the SSBers were doing by zero-beating, except in this case the SSBers were in the right because the AM operator was jamming with a carrier and no modulation.

On CB, there is only a channel switch so if there is some idiot keyed down to jam the channel, one can go to SSB on the same channel and let his carrier do all the work. Anyone listening in AM mode (99.9% of the users) will hear your SSB transmission just as if it was AM because the carrier is supplied by the dead-keyer. Because it is channelized they have nowhere to run, no KC's to move off.