The AM Forum

It is with great sadness that I must report the loss of a good friend and a brother in the AM community.

Dave Wenger K3ZRF moved on into the ether at 6:08 this morning.

God bless Dave and his wonderful wife Pam. My heart is saddened and hurts for her loss.

Gary/W2INR

Dave was one of the funniest, most intelligent and generous people I have ever met. His passing leaves a great big empty in our lives that cannot be filled. It is an honor to have been allowed into his life.

- Paul and Maggie, W2JTD

Very sad to hear.

Been torn up since I got word.

I'm very lucky to have known you these many years.

I will be thinking about you.

I'm shocked, I didn't know Dave was sick. but been wondering where's been.
Will miss him, my condolences to Pam, and the family..   

Chuck-W3FJJ

I cant say it any better than it has allready been said. I have been torn up since getting the news the other day.

Dave was someone that you could'nt not like! ! ! He was always happy and always had kind words and something funny to say.

Dave, you will be SEVERELY missed. God bless and Godspeed. We love you both.

                                                       Frank & Carol
                                                    KB3AHE & KB3OMT

...and how.

We've lost a hugely generous, funny, and intelligent friend.

Last time I saw him was my going away pharty before I left for Greece, at Fells' Point in Baltimore.  What a lot of fun.

 :'(

Wow.........  :'(

All my best to Pam.

I'm speechless............

We've lost one if the best. He will always be with us though - lots of good memories.

My thoughts and prayers are with Pam and the family.

I'm truly shocked by this! Buddly said it correctly! I am completely dumbfounded and at a loss for words. My sincere condolences to Pam and his family. This is extremely stunning!

I go way back to 1967 with Dave.  When I was a new Ham, he would come over and visit.  I was just a kid trying to get a big signal with good audio on the air.  He always called my mother, “Mrs. Fell” and she liked the respect and gentlemanly manner he showed.  She told me after he left during the first visit, “Dave is a nice polite boy and he is welcome back here anytime”.  I relayed what she said to Dave many times and he always got a kick out of it.   

Back when I was a kid and first met Dave, he was using his original Valiant with modified audio and sounded great on AM.  I think his receiver was from Lafayette.  Latter, he followed Bill’s, W3DUQ footsteps and put an upside down final circuit in a Valiant to allow for extended positive peak modulation.  His QSO’s were commonly heard with, Bill-W3DUQ,  Mark-K3VVG (SK), Roger-WA3FLE (SK), George-W3YAM  / W3OW (SK), Harry-W3FDY(SK) and of coarse many others. 

During the notorious Thomas Point Lighthouse radio event that Paul, WA3VJB organized, it was great to spend a weekend out at TPL with Dave.  We had a blast and the memories are lasting.  That is where I introduced Dave to my Dad’s hot pepper recipe by bringing some cooked jalapeno peppers with me.  Dave was hooked on that recipe from that day on!   

Bert –WA3JYU along with his wife Pat came along with Martha and me during our visit to see Dave at the Hospice Center in Lancaster on April 16th.   We had a short but good visit with him and it was evident that for Dave, the end on this earth was near.  Rather than take flowers, I wanted to do something a little bit different for him as a gift.  I bought a flower pot and planted an Eimac 1000T tube in it.  Around the base I put some Jalapeno peppers which Dave and I talked about often over the years. Even though he was very ill, when I walked into his room with that it got a smile out of him. 

Dave was a very accomplished individual and I am glad that we were friends and I will really miss him and I know those others that got to know him will sorely miss him as well. 

Pam, Dave’s wife who was always in the background when he was on the air will need lots of support to endure the difficult days ahead.   

Joe, W3GMS             

This is sad news indeed.  I have talked to Dave dozens of times but only met him face to face once 18 years ago.

Dave was such a long time part of the AM group, it's hard to comprehend that he's gone now.  He will be missed.

My condolences to his family.

Eric

  
   RIP old friend, I missed you on the WFD afternoons with "Things" 15000
   watts boosting your AM from the speakers attached to the R4B, SX 28
   or TS 440 in the shack here.   I'll be seeing you on my trip out there one
   of these days, I'm sure...

   Pam, what can I say other than my deepest heartfelt condolences... I'm
   sure it was a great trip so remember; this load of heavy grief will soon lift
   a bit and you will hold on to the good times you two shared...


    

      Hang in there Pam. Sure miss both of you getting on the air together in the early 70's.

73 & 88 John, K1DEU

Dave Wenger was a true gentlemen.  He will be in my heart and my mind forever.   My heartfelt condolences to Pam and the rest of the family.

Dave and I stayed in touch after my move to Virginia Beach and my exile from the airwaves.  We talked on the phone and exchanged emails about birds, food, bugs, our grownup kids, and a lot of other stuff that was both interesting and funny.  Truly a gentleman and a joy to know and when I learned recently from Pam of his illness I was floored.  Dave was such a force of nature and so full of life that it just didn't seem possible.  

I didn't have the pleasure of knowing Dave as long as some of you, but I can honestly say I enjoyed every moment that I got to share his company.  Pam is very much in my thoughts and I hope that she will gain some comfort from knowing that the man she loved was so well liked and so highly respected by his friends.  

I'm in Shock reading this. Does anyone know what happened to him.
I saw him at Deerfield last.

Frank,

Dave has always been a very private person and the details are not being offered for public discussion. This was one of Dave's wishes and we are honoring his wishes.

I have answered your question in a PM.

Gary/W2INR

My condolences to Pam and the family.  Dave was a class act. Always enjoyed his company on the air and at the fests.

R.I.P. Dave.

Tom, K1JJ

Like many people here, I'm completely blind-sided by this news. I had no clue that Dave was ill. A few months ago he mentioned to me that "We're all in the 4th quarter of the game, so you've got to make sure you enjoy yourself now and then." Those words have echoed in my head a few times, and now they have even more meaning. Dave has always been one of my favorite people to hook up with on the air. His sense of humor and straight talk have always made it pleasant to share a frequency with him.

My condolences to his family. Dave's friendship will always be remembered.

Gary, thank you for informing us.

Rob W1AEX

Wow! That was an unexpected shock.  I first started working Dave over the air when I used to live in Cambridge, in the mid 1970s. If he was recently ailing, I wasn't aware, but then it might have been something unforeseen. None of us is even guaranteed to-morrow. Don't recall if I ever met him in person, but talked to him on the radio many times over the years.

R.I.P.

Hard to comprehend, much less accept. Dave was one of the nicest, most genuine folks you could ever hope to meet. Very laid back, great sense of humor, a big part of the crew who leaves a massive hole in our lives.

I don't think I'd seen Dave since your party either, Johnny. Maybe at NEAR-Fest once, can't recall. But he was in typical 'ZRF form at Fell's Point that August, like all the rest of the gatherings.

My thoughts and prayers too are with Pam, as well as Paul & Maggie, Gary, Steve, Johnny and the rest of that extended family. What a great bunch of memories he leaves us with....

My thoughts to Pam and all his buddies !
I remember the Elmira and Nearfest shows chatting with him, K2ORC and the gang ! Plenty on the AIR too !
Rest in peace my friend.
Bob
WB2FOF

I am shocked and broken hearted. I remember when I meet Dave and Pam at their house in Denver. He was such a funny guy and a great story teller! I will always remember the good times we had on the WFD net.
73 Dave, we will miss you!

Al/W3GD

I can't seem to add anything to what has been said about Dave in the previous posts except that this leaves a big hole in the world where he used to be.
My prayers are with Pam and the rest of his family, related by blood or by radio waves.

RIP my friend.

Bill KA8WTK

Dave was one of the first AM'ers I ever met.  We joked at Hosstraders that we met there in NH and we only lived up the road from each other in PA.  He's been a great friend, and a great AM elmer.  He seemed the most excited about radio when he was helping someone else out, improving an antenna, rewinding a choke, or giving expert audio advice, etc.

Dave was a very genuine guy and a great ham.  He looked at you and smiled and you knew you had a new ham buddy.  There was also mischief in that smile  We're a lesser community with his loss.

That's one 15,000 watt signal that I will never forget, and will very sorely miss.

Karl, KD3CN

WOW....Very sad.  I will miss his him and the fun at Deerfield and the "Whats for dinner Net" Pam please take care.


Best Wishes
Brent W1IA

I can hardly believe it. Just a few months ago he was on the air and as feisty as ever.

Dave was one of the first 75 meter AMers I ever heard -- back around 1971, I think -- and one of those who inspired me to get my ticket the next year.

I met him for the first time at Bill, W3DUQ's place in 1975, and saw and worked him many times since. He was funny, kind, caring, and a master at creating both an audio experience and a fun experience whenever you worked him. He also gave generously of his knowledge and time.

I always remember him signing off, in the true 'AM mob' fashion that many have forgotten today: "Rawk, tweet-tweet, bye-bye..."

See you on the other side, Dave.

Kevin, WB4AIO.

Dave was a very interesting character and highly intelligent.

He had a wide range of skills and interests.

Always fun to converse with.

Dave and Pam were some of the folks who made a point of checking how I was doing throughout this past year which was rough for me. That's the kind of person Dave was.

I'm glad to have known Dave.

73 OM R.I.P.

I just read this about Dave.  What a pity to lose another great AMer.  I used to get a kick out of just listening to him as well as working him.  My condolences to all his friends and his family.

Herb

I'm shocked too.

First thought it wan't Dave, couldn't see the 'ZRF call clearly,...
but then saw 'INR's call as some sort of verification, waded into the thread and suddenly felt very despondent.

Oh, my very best to Pam and all of Dave's family.

...just no words.

Dave just seemed so sympatico to me..   a fellow traveler.  I'll sure miss his mustachio'd gusto and humor.

Horrible, horrible news. I knew Dave from meeting him in person at Frank's (KB3AHE) party every year after the Timonium Hamfest.

Rest in peace.
Phil K2PG

I guess other people's parents liked Dave too. Some audio from the late 60's with K3ZRF and K3VVG.

Here is the Lancaster (Penna.) newspaper obituary that has now been published.

Something pushed me to call his old cellphone number this morning.
Hoping he would answer.

I spoke with Pam and told her as much. We went on from there.

She wants me to tell you she feels all the love and prayers you've been sending her way. She's got a heavy burden to work through, since she and Dave were so invested in one another -- far more so than most couples I have ever known.


http://obits.lancasteronline.com/index.php?p=2692879

---

David L. Wenger       Dec. 9, 1948 - Apr. 25, 2011

David L. Wenger, a visionary electrical and acoustical engineer, died Monday, April 25, at Hospice of Lancaster County after a brief battle with cancer. He was 62.

Mr. Wenger's company, DLW Audio Consultants of Stevens, PA, supplied leading recording studios, touring acts, television facilities and Olympic stadiums with critically accurate loudspeakers and custom public address system installations. His signature line and near-field studio reference loudspeakers, the Wenger/ALS 1104, are used around the world by recording engineers/producers, by audiophiles, and in mastering labs, post production facilities, flight simulators and even planetariums.

Since 2006, DLW completed several noteworthy renovations for NBC television at Rockefeller Center in New York. Along with his wife and business partner, Pamela S. Wenger, David personally rewired Studio 1A, home of Dateline NBC and The Today Show, Studio 6B, home of Late Night with Jimmy Fallon, Studio 3A/3C, home of MSNBC Live, and Saturday Night Live, the studio used for offsite coverage of the 2008 Summer Olympics.

This was not the first time DLW contributed to the Olympic stage. In 1992, the Wengers delivered more than 1,500 hand-made loudspeakers to BOSE Corporation for use at the Calgary and Albertville Winter Olympics, where they performed flawlessly in temperatures as cold as -20°F. And on July 17, 1976, at Olympic Stadium in Montreal, Canada, it was a custom public address system from Wenger's first small shop in Blue Ball, PA, that entertained an audience that included Queen Elizabeth II of England.

"Disco was a big thing and we were doing club installations in '76 when we got the Olympics," recalls Dave's partner at the time, Tom Lalley of 20th Century Fox Studios. "But Dave was fearless, not afraid of anything, and he was so savvy with acoustics and was really confident in his ability to build something that big and powerful. He was the brains behind it."

Pamela Shirk (nee Enloe) Wenger joined DLW as an electrical technician in 1982 and married Dave in 1986. She is President of the company today.

"Everything about Dave was expressed in his loudspeaker designs," she said. "He had brilliant ears and he would define and redefine a product until it was what he wanted and expected, and he wouldn't settle for anything less. He was ahead of his time, for sure."

Other significant milestones for the company included a 1984 installation of 1104 monitors in a Comanche Attack Helicopter flight simulator for the Boeing Company in Ridley Park, PA, and three planetarium installations in the mid-1980s in Mexico and France for Spitz Space Systems of Chadds Ford, PA.

Born in Lancaster, David Leeds Wenger was the son of Jane L. Wenger, a resident of Denver Nursing Home, Denver, and the late John A. Wenger.

Growing up, Mr. Wenger was profoundly influenced by a family friend who exposed him to the world of amateur (ham) radio operation. An insatiable interest in big signals and clean audio circuitry was born, and at the tender age of fourteen, David obtained an FCC license for station K3ZRF.

Nightly radio chat around the world became his favorite recreational pastime, and he spent 49 years on the air staying connected with many of his closest friends in life.

A graduate of Warwick High School, David earned a bachelor's degree in biology at the University of Miami (FL) in 1974, where he hosted a program at the student radio station. Upon returning to Lititz, he was asked by a neighbor, Roy Clair, co-founder of Clair Brothers Audio, if he could read an oscilloscope. He could, and David was hired to the technical staff of Clair Brothers in Brickerville, where he became a design engineer working on crossover designs within PA systems. He left in 1976 to form DLW Audio Consultants in Blue Ball.

His survivors include his wife of 25 years, Pamela S. Wenger of Stevens; a son, Joshua D. Wenger of Biloxi, MS; a stepson, Jeffrey L. Shirk, husband of Andrea Shirk of Sharpsburg, GA; a sister-in-law, Jill Enloe Papa, wife of Larry Papa of Bend, OR; a niece, Jackie E. Christensen, wife of Brent Christensen of Bend, OR; a nephew, Jere Eshelman of California; two grandchildren, Zachrey L. and Bryan L. Shirk; a grand-niece and a grand-nephew.

A memorial service will be held Saturday, May 7th, at Roseboro Stradling Funeral Home, 533 Walnut Street, Denver, PA at 11:00 AM with Pastor Dennis Trout officiating.

The family requests that memorial contributions be sent to Hospice of Lancaster County, P.O. Box 4125, Lancaster, PA 17604-4125.

Arrangements by Roseboro Stradling Funeral & Cremation Services, Inc., Denver. For additional information or to send a condolence to the family, visit: roseborostradling.com [/b][/size]

I'd give my eyeteeth to go, but obviously I can't... however my wife, who was enchanted by Pam and Dave's joie de vivre, will go in my stead.

Same here Johnny. unfortunately, i have yet another funeral to attend.
This has not been a good week for me. 2 dear friends lost.

Steve,
Great recording!  It was a blast hearing those guys.  It sounded like Dave's voice had not changed yet!   I need to try and contact Tony, WA3CAO who was in the recorded QSO.  We all sure had a blast on the air back then.  Mark, K3VVG (sk) was just how I remember him.  Very laid back sounding like a progressive rock DJ from the 60's.  Back then dead air between words was the typical style. 

Paul,
Thanks for publishing the earlier picture of Dave while out at TPL.  Great shot indeed.  The obit was done in fine style as well. 

I just spoke to Pam on the phone and she is doing as well as can be expected. 

Joe, W3GMS

About ten days ago I got a call from one of the guys,a close friend of Daves . He had all he could do to tell me about Daves sickness of which I was unaware of.The news hit me like a ton of brick. Dave ,as I saw it ,would be one of the last of our generation to leave the scene. I have known Dave since I was a boot, in the Summer of 1966.I was a piss weak jn-ny kind of beginner on am with a 1x3 boot call, my home brew rig, the "crapbox 40" tied to an ineffectual antenna system. I tried incessantly to break into a qso on 75 on a static laden late evening weekend night beween Bill W3DUQ and Dave K3ZRF. Finally Dave heard me. I was so excited.About a year later I upgraded to a general in Sept of'67.In November of '67 Bill was having his famous "Sign off party" ,as a result with a little altercation with the FeeCCee. Everyone was invited. I found my way down. I met very many interesting people as well as familiar one that I had known from New England who made it down.Later on in the evening I wound up hanging out in Bill's hamshack with Dave,K3ZRF. He exuded an atmosphere of total coolness.  He made me feel very welcome in his presence. From that time on, Dave and I had many good times when I could make it down his way. I am much saddened by the loss of Dave , I grieve for Pam's loss as well.He will be missed terribly. I always looked forward to seeing him at the fall Nearfest. The obit a few posts ago was very well written                   
With due respect,
Tim WA1HnyLR

Was this the party, Tim?

Steve,

I hope Tim, HLR chimes in but I bet that was the one.  That was the NAAAM XMAS card if I remember correctly.  I have the same card around here somewhere. 

I was several years younger than those guys and my parents restricted me from attending Bill's parties!  I was at Bill's once during those days, but Dad was present :)

Joe, W3GMS

Very sad thing, my condolences and prayers to Pam.
Unfortunately I was not privileged to have known him personally, but Dave was clearly a very interesting and well respected gentleman. Had no ideal of all of his accomplishments until I read the obit, a deep loss.

I'm also sadden to hear of Dave's passing. What an accomplished man! I know I have heard him on the air but not sure if I ever talked with him. In his later years at NBC he must have been very busy and I remember when he was working there with his wife.

What is shocking to me is the fact that he was on this board this month and now he gone.

I'm sure he'll be missed by all who knew and loved him.

RIP


Terry

Oh no, I just saw this.

I met Dave on 75 meters back around 1967, and then met him in person at Bill W3DUQs sign-off party in December 1967.  Yes Steve, that post card picture is from the party, Bill and his friends, hams and non-hams.

I remember Dave talking about his early days at Clair Brothers, where they gave him a task of fixing a high power solid state amplifier that had a parasitic problem, to test his skills when they were hiring him.  Dave fixed it by redesigning it - he said the solution was a single point ground.

I had seen Dave many times at Bill's place, I had been to Dave's home in Lititz in the early 70s, and talked on the air many times over the years.  The last time I saw Dave was at the Gaithersberg hamfest in 1997, I think.

This is terrible, terrible.  I can't believe it.  RIP, Dave.

Here it is Sunday afternoon. This is when Dave and Pam could be found relaxing on the radio with us. Excellent memories.

On the particular afternoon below, Gary, INR checked in and was unusually pissweak.  Jay, WWL, was unusually able to strap him. Bill, DUQ was the moderator, and Dave, ZRF for some unknown reason thought we all were running a game on him ... (Pam can be heard in there too, providing counsel)

I just found out from a very good friend a little while ago; and my wife Jocelyn and I are still beside ourselves. Our prayers are out to Pam. Dave was a lot more than just a terrific guy, to say the least. I just read his obit posted elsewhere in this thread, and had no idea of his accomplishments. I knew of his interest in hi-fidelity speakers, etc but had no idea that he took it to the level that he did.

He'll be missed by all who had the pleasure of knowing him, and both my wife Jocelyn and I are still in shock over the news of him passing.

Hi Joe,
Sorry you did not get the word.  I just assumed you saw it when Gary posted it.  We are going to the service this Saturday at 11AM.  Hopefully a lot of the AM'ers will be present. 

Very sad indeed and I am still dealing with the great loss. 

Joe, W3GMS

See you there, Joe.

Pam also has booked the Franklin House Tavern for a "Celebration of Dave's Life," the event suitably named because the location is where Dave had partyed-in his 60th birthday.

Cool looking place.
http://franklinhousetavern.com/tavern.html

Festivities begin after the memorial service at the funeral home in Denver, Pa.

Franklin House Tavern
101 Market St./Rt. 897
Schaefferstown, Penna.

Paul,

Glad your making it tomorrow.  We were aware and are planning on attending the event after his service. 

What a great picture!  JTD with short hair!  Never saw that before :)

I am hoping that Bill makes it tomorrow.  I sent him an e-mail, but did not receive a response back.

Joe, W3GMS   

   Joe,

   I just got off the LL with Bill and he said he just isn't up to the task
   for tomorrow, pitty...
 
   I'm going out to the car and program the repeater into the 2 meter CB.
   That should be useful up that way tomorrow on my trip to the memorial
   service and for communications in route to the Pub.   

   I will have to follow someone to that location and am looking forward to
   seeing all the AMers at that get together (a wake perhaps? Didn't realize
   Dave had any Irish back ground...)

    Whatever, see all you guys tomorrow...

   

For anyone coming tomorrow to the service, my repeater in Parkesburg covers the area pretty well. 

Frequency 146.985 (-) 600 Khz offset
PL = 100 hz

Joe, W3GMS

A wonderful radio wake is occurring right now on 3733 kHZ AM for Dave K3ZRF.  Many of the "local" AM'ers are at Dave's shack operating his station in Denver Pennsylvania.

NOTE - The K3ZRF Wake/What's For Dinner Net has just QSY'ed to 3725 KHz.

Will Miss Dave, Great to hear all honoring him today.. here's a recording I made while chatting with him, and hope it puts a smile
to your face too.. ;D

Chuck, your recording pretty much sums up what was going on, tonight.

And actually, Dave was there, this whole time, listen:

Amen schonny.

Fitting and proper.

Just read this and can't believe it. Just one heck of a guy and a great AM'er, rip Dave....

Wifey went and scheduled me during my next trip back home in June....

Around 6 or 7 years ago, a pretty well known local vintage radio collector (I am not identifying him because I'm not sure how his family would feel about my doing that) revealed in a local 75 m. roundtable that he had been diagnosed with colon cancer after he went in to see his doctor about chronic indigestion.   He battled it for the following 18 months but the cancer won.   He was in his mid to late 50s at the time, and at one point in the ensuing months told those of us who would gather to chat on weekends on 75, that his doctor told him if he had gotten a colonoscopy when he turned 50, they would have found that tumor and nipped it in the bud.   I didn't need any more motivation and got my first one a few months later.  I'll be due for my second one in 2 years.   He was one of those hams who owned or had owned just about every piece of vintage gear ever made and knew it all from the power cord to the mic or speaker jack and was a walking encyclopedia of boat anchor information and we still miss him.

My sister died at age 40 from Colon Cancer.  They normally do not start screening until age 50.  She left a Husband and 3 small children behind.  We had never before had any history of Cancer in our family.  She was in great health until that occurred.     

So I made sure I got checked out.  I have to thank my wife Martha for bugging the crap out of me to have my first check-out done.  Due to my family risk I have to have one every 5 years.  Normally its once every 10 years.  Fortunately every checkup shows no problems. The worst is just the cleaning out process the day and evening before the exam. 

Don't think, "it can't happen to me".

Great Paul on you getting your check-up today.

Joe, W3GMS   

No need to be apprehensive about a colonoscopy, with the sedation you never know what happened.   Also get an annual PSA test.   They have saved my life, been cancer free for 11 years.

Good input on the PSA test which is nothing more than part of your yearly blood work.  Finding a problem early is the best way to beat it! 
Joe, W3GMS 

I did mine about a month ago. They found five polyps and all turned out to be non cancerous. There was no pain and other than some discomfort during the examination, it wasn't all that bad. I added some detail just to let others know that it's not a big deal to have it done.

Like Larry the cable guy says, "Get er done!"   

I felt the same way: Nah, not me........... While I was in the horsepistol past year they cornered me into getting one (I was 54+) The worst part was the cleanout. The actual procedure was absolutely no big deal. They knocked me out, and when I woke up it was over. ABSOLUTELY no big deal, especially for the peace of mind that it gives you. A good insurance policy!!

Dont be a wimp, just "Git er done"!!

6/2/11 @ 7:45 am

G

Man, this is beginning to sound like 75m slopbucket on a weekday evening!

I agree regarding the colonoscopy.  I had my first one about 10 years ago and they found some polyps, including one that was suspicious in nature.  All were safely removed, and I have been on a 3-year regimen ever since.  Each time, although the count has always dwindled from the previous time, they have removed more polyps, including another one that looked "suspicious".  The Dr. told me they normally take about 8 years from when they first appear to become cancerous, and while most are completely benign, that would put me now well past the 8-year mark from my first exam.

They say have your first one at age 50 if everything seems normal.  I had mine well into my mid 50s as a result of an unrelated issue that turned out to be OK, but it was something I kept putting off, planning to have done "a little later".

The procedure itself is not a bad experience.  He always sedates me to the point that I fade completely out, and it seems like only a couple of minutes till I wake up, even though the exam actually takes the better part of an hour. My wife had her first one done several years ago, and her Dr. didn't give her enough anaesthesia, and she had a lot of discomfort. Since then, she has gone to the same Dr. that I do, with no discomfort at all. 

What really sucks though, is the preparation the day before.  No solid food, only clear liquids all day, and then in the evening start downing a large volume of yucky liquid stuff over a period of 2-3 hours.  Don't even think about getting on the radio.  You might be able to use the computer if you have a laptop and wireless router, and your loo is within signal range.

Don,
Well the prep is better than not doing it and having a problem! 
I guess you can tell we are all getting up there.  This kind of stuff nobody talks about earlier in life.  Then again, we you see someone you know become a silent key from the big "C" it wakes you up.  Its a shame that it works that way but it does.

Gary,
Good deal on your scheduled date. 
It was good chatting when you were down. 

Joe, W3GMS   

That dadgum stuff they make ya drank, they got it down ta 1/2 gallon now & it tastes like gateraide

Hope it went well Paul. I had my "7 year" checkup last week and all was well. As others have mentioned in the thread, the day before is quite crappy, and the 64 ounce "Miralax mixed with Gatorade" regimen was not terribly pleasant, but the actual procedure is a breeze. This time around they gave me propofol, which is the anesthesia that Michael Jackson had administered every night at sleepy time in never-never land. It puts you out completely, and when you wake up, it feels like you've had the best night's sleep ever. I can understand why Jack-o mandated this every night. At any rate, no one should avoid this test. It's painless and it could save your life.

The secret is to schedule the procedure early in the morning.  That way you do the prep the night before, go to bed, wake up and get it over with, then eat breakfast and get on with life.

You should always do that for any procedure.  The doctor or surgeon is fresh and ready to go, and no delay has accumulated over the course of several appointments, some of which inevitably take longer than anticipated.  Most importantly, the odds of something going wrong are much less with an early morning appointment, versus one late in the day.

http://www.bottomlinesecrets.com/article.html?article_id=40276

Well, here we are...it's now US who are P&Ming about our prostates and colon health...

Yeah the "Fleet" colonoscopy prep is not much fun, but I agree, you do feel great for the rest of day the when you wake up afterward! 

We have a friend who was diagnosed with colon cancer in his early 40s ...way before they usual 50 year rule of thumb for starting screening...luckily they seem to have got it all and he is in remission now.

Chris,

See my posting a few threads up.  My sister died at 40 of Colon Cancer.  Your right, normal screening does not start until 50.  Well since its in our family my daughter had her first screening at 32.  All was fine.
I hope your friend continues to do well.

Joe, W3GMS 

this thread has gotten off topic, but you know, this is actually a good thing.

I allready miss Dave severely, and have been torn up pretty badly since getting the news from Pam, he is not someone you can replace. Things will never be the same on 75 without him. But.................

If this thread's discussion of colonoscopies, and colon cancer saves just one person out of all that read this thread, at least he didn't die in vain! ! ! ! ! 

Right on Frank!  I miss Dave as well.  I want to give a call to his widow Pam later today just to check in and see how she is doing.
Joe, W3GMS
 

Well put Frank.

I had my first colonoscopy 3 years ago.  I didn't know what it would cost and didn't care what it would cost me.  I was going to have it done as I was overdue by the age standard.  It turned out that the charge was $1000, but all was paid by my insurance plan, not a penny out of pocket.

As the guys say, the prior 24 hours of preparation is hell (at home) and the procedure is real smooth where I went.  I think I had an i-v of Valium or something like that to start with.  I never felt more relaxed and comfortable in my life.  My gurney was wheeled into the procedure room and the anesthesiologist doctor asked me something and the next thing I knew I was waking in my bed back at the curtained spot where I started the day.  I asked myself "When is this thing going to get started?"  Then as my head cleared I figured out it was all over!  This is the first time I've been knocked out since my tonsilectomy in ~ 1958.

They kept me there a little while to re-gain proper sense.  They fed me some food and drink.  You are not allowed to drive yourself out of there.  My wife picked me up.  I would say that I was a bit out of it yet when my wife and I walked out of the facility.

Tom,

When I had mine afterwards I had a big craving for a Turkey sandwich.  Normally I can't stand turkey!  We went to a local deli and I had that Turkey sandwich.  Never had one since!

Your right about the sleep cycle.  I wish I slept that well on my own.  When I was somewhat awake, the Dr. told me the results saying things looked good.  He did snip a few polyps and they were benign. 

I just talked to Dave's widow Pam on the phone.  Its a tuff day for her as I knew it would be. 

Joe, W3GMS   

The gastrointerologist (sp?) who does mine once said "there is no excuse for anyone dying of colon cancer".

We are fortunate to live in an exceptional period in history, with modern day medical technology, as inadequate as it often seems.  Out of the 100,000 years or so that modern humans are believed to have existed on the planet, even as recently as 35 years ago, the routine colonoscopy was not an option. The best option was a "procto" exam with a rigid tube, that only checked out the bottom (descending) end of the colon.  That still was worthwhile, since something like 80% of the problems occur in that part.  But it wouldn't have helped me; my "suspicious" one was located way up at the far end, where the large and small intestines join. It was safely removed, but a "proctoscopy" would not have detected it.

I don't know what type of cancer led to Dave's demise, but my sympathies go out to his wife Pam and family.  I'll miss the on-air presence of the man from "Li Titz".

Don,

Yes, technology in the medical field has really come a long way.  We are lucky in that respect.  The insurance companies are another story. 

The next time I call Pam, I will certainly pass along your kind words.  She may be checking this site, but not sure on that. 

One of my favorite times with Dave was when we were out on Thomas Point Lighthouse operating as a special event station with vintage AM gear.   

We had some of the local AM'ers in a few years back and Dave and Pam made the event.  Of coarse, I had some of my hot peppers all cooked up and we had hot wings as well.  The enjoyment of seeing Dave eating those hot peppers and the hot wings was something I will never forget. 

The memories are strong and hopefully lasting...

Enjoy every day we have and forget the small stuff.  One of my sayings is "You can always make money but you can't buy time".

Joe, W3GMS   

 

i am in total shock - nothing creeps me out more than sk with a callsign

Guys

Age 40 is a good age to have both baselines done.  I have a brother-in-law (age 54) who is going in for a prostactomy 27th of this month. The prognosis does not look good.

Remember, it's a baseline check so the doc can see if there is any change.  Don is especially right about CC.  There really is no excuse to have an advanced case, but the baseline needs to be there.

Never met Dave - but I think most hams are just great people to be with

Al

I don't think I knew that, Joe, what a pisser.  Well, Josh, Dave's son, pictured below, is already well aware that he's got to pay attention to his health.  He's in his 30s now.  I first met him at the Gaithersburg hamfest in 1977, a babe-in-arms.  Some of you have seen a snapshot I took at the time.

Look at him now !  Quite the strapping lad.

Same insouciant look as his old man ...

Paul said:
He's missing the 'heavy duty mustache!'  ;D

Well, having just crossed the ole 'fifty laps around the sun' myself, I had my PSA done at work. My family Dr. will set up the colonoscopy check. Probably in August. Dave is probably beaming down at us for the fact that we are remembering him by 'people looking up our behinds.' I'm certain he would be snickering with approval. God Bless Ya Dave!

Having seen baby pictures of Dave at the funeral, I can verify he was not born with that mustache, even though most of use have never seen him without it! Pam says he grew it at age 19 and never shaved it off.

Some of Dave and Pam from 2007.

Paul,

We had a nice chat with Josh at the restaurant and enjoyed hearing the stories and his plans.  He was in the Marines over in Iraq and it was interesting hearing the stories. 

You could tell Josh has a lot of respect for his Dad.

Joe, W3GMS 

Steve,

Great audio clip!  I am sure I have Dave in the early days somewhere on my multiple 7" real to real tapes.  I need to dub those off soon before they are not able to be played anymore.  Bert, WA3JYU has been doing a great job doing that with his old tapes.

Joe, W3GMS

"It's good when you can hear the other guy smile."

Dave, commenting on some good band conditions one afternoon, in a recording made and distributed by Bert, WA3JYU.

Finally found the fortitude to slip it in the dash CD player this morning on the way to work.

Sigh.

I just wanted to say thank you to all of the individuals whom came to see my dad in the hospital before he passed. Every little quip and quote brought a smile to his face. He loved the radio and all of those whom he regularly talked with. Thank you for all of your support. Josh

Josh, thanks much for checking in.  Your dad was sure proud of you and spoke of you often on the radio. 

Josh: We were lucky to have known your Dad and have him as a friend. He will be missed.

Joe: I have some stuff on tape too, but it only dates to the early 90's. I'll post more of Dave soon.

Josh,
It was nice meeting you at your Dad service and afterwards when we had time to chat. 

We were so glad the we had that last visit with your Dad at the Hospice center.  It was a tuff visit, but we were glad that it happened and the smile on his face when I brought him that big tube in the flower pot was a smile I will never ever forget. 


Steve,
I look forward to hearing those tapes!  Hopefully this winter I will be able to start dubbing my tapes from the 60's, 70.s and 80's onto CD.  Time marches on and those need to be preserved along with the those others folks have been working on. 

Anyone check-in with Pam lately?  I called last Wednesday and it was a tuff day for her.     

Joe, W3GMS

Hey Josh,

Considering the circumstances it was good hanging with you the two trips I made down to Lancaster county. The visit before had to be one of the toughest and gut wrenching things I have ever experienced in life.  I never new what sad was until this happened.

Your father was a good friend and a great man. He will be missed but he will always be alive in our hearts.

Be cool

Gary

Yeah Joe, I talked with her Monday. She was hangin' with Paul and Maggie at the shore. Seemed okay, but sure, there's this awful emptiness coming through.

JOSH -- I will email to Pam the photos you took with my camera of friends and family when we met up.

Paul,

Thanks for the update on Pam.  Glad she is with good friends. 

Joe, W3GMS

In my mind, Dave will be always young, always funny, always kind, always insightful, always alive. And he'll always have that twinkle in his eye.

Kevin, WB4AIO.

This is a difficult struggle I'm having. I think many here have had other friends/family passed due to some form of consumption, (cancer, but I call it what it really is!). The struggle is it best to comfort and console friends as they pass on and always live with those final snap-shots or to shy away and remember them being vibrant and full of life? I'm kind of ambivilant to it all. My lasting memory of Dave will be when Frank hosted the last 'get-together' after Timonium. He and his big mustache, and hardy handshake will be the lasting memory of the ZRF-man.

Some years back, I had to go to 7 funerals of close friends and family members. I was pretty yellafied and bummed out about the whole thing. I was just learning to cope with it when a close friend and co-worker left me with a thought that has stayed with me for many years.

He said: (this is an exact quote) " You know that you are getting older when you find that you know as many MFs as you do live ones"

That saying has stayed with me ever since. We are all getting older and find ourselves loosing many of the ones that are close and / or dear to us. Now, especially after checking out twice myself and returning to be able to think about it. It never gets any easier, but you just gotta learn to push on. I have learned to cherish every minute that I am able to spend with those that are close to me. I look at every minute that I get to stay on this rock as a gift and a blessing!

Just always remember, no matter how bad it seems, someone else has it worse than you and would give anything to be in your shoes! ! !

ANY DAY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE GRASS IS A GOOD DAY! ! ! ! ! ! !

I allready miss Dave terribly!! The WFDN just isnt the same without him! ! ! !

I said it before, and I'll say it again, Dave was one of those special people that you just couldn't not like! !

I often think what would Dave say if we could communicate with him directly? 

He was a very humble person with a zero ego factor. 

One vision I get is seeing Dave twisting his mustache and saying "shit happens" but keep eating those hot peppers!  He would probably go on and said look at how many experiences I had in my life.  Did a hell of a lot but shit happens....Enjoy the ride...

Joe, W3GMS 

And in my case:  It's been one hell of a ride! ! ! ! !

Josh has his Dad's eyes and maybe the same smile if you could see through the forest.

Unless you're a naturally bitter and negative person, the memory tends to round off the harsh edges and lighten up the dark spots.

The value of your comfort and support is vital to the friends and loved ones, real time.

And in moving past what happens, the memories then help return to how you best remember that person and the times you've shared.

I dialed in and retrieved my lab results this morning.  "Entirely benign," the doctor said in the recorded message.   The two nodules they found and retrieved were "natural growth tissue," and as a result, he lowered my assessed risk and put me on a 10-year recheck timetable instead of the "average" category that recommends checks every 5 years.

Thanks, Dave !  I can't help but think he made some arrangements for me, and I'm all watery as I try to see to write this, dood.

Paul,
Great to hear that your results were good!  As they say. "see you in 10 years" for this kind of stuff is great news!
Joe

Just a bump, and in the keeping of the spirit of ham radio where you discuss all health problems, wifey and I had this done together today.  No issues, but since my father had colon cancer I gotta go back every 5 years.

Vy glad to hear this for the both of you, John.
Really don't feel like losing any more good folks if there's a way to prevent / intervene.
Getting ready was probably the worst -- but then the process is amazingly simple and you get a real good nap.

Now go have a hi hi FB meal somewhere and get caught up on your intake.

FWIW,

There is a 'mail in' test that one can get from yer doc.  Its not as definitive as the 'bend over buckweat', but is better than nothing.


My doc sends me home with a  "Seracult", 'mail in', every year.


   >>>   Serial screening test for fecal occult blood  <<<


• These Seracult® guaiac tests are a qualitative aid in the diagnosis of colorectal cancer. They are designed for use in routine physical exams in doctors´ offices, hospitals, clinics and laboratories. Tests are available in single-slide, triple-slide or tape design and in kit form for mailing.

• Reliable detection of 90% of the colorectal cancers that bleed.


http://www.medplususa.com/list-product_info-p-Seracult_Fecal_Occult_Blood_Test_Single_Slide_100_Bx-pid-117.html


klc

Why mess around.  Have the real test done.  The mail in could be used in addition to the real test, but not as a substitute as far as I am concerned.   The next time I am at my Doc, I will ask about the mail in test but I bet I know what will be said! 

Joe, W3GMS

Datz Right!! Once they hit you with the "joy juice" You sleep like a rock!!
Not to mention that "sigh of relief" you get when you find out all is good!

As part of the family cancer study program here at The Cleveland Clinic my last looksee was done with imaging. It is amazing the level of detail that was accomplished.

All clear for another 5 years!

The 'mail in' is so you don't have to get the lunar probe every year. People with a history have a different shedule.

klc

After my last screening in March, my doctor informed me that there is a strong push within the AMA to reduce the 10 year screening period to 7 years, even for those who are classified as being in the level one (lowest) risk category. The feeling is that this would catch fast growing aggressive cases earlier and result in a significant increase in successful treatment. In fact, some are pushing to reduce it to 5 years, to assure even higher success rates. From the viewpoint of the doctors who are tasked with defeating colon cancer, this makes sense. Unfortunately, the procedure costs between 1000 to 2000 dollars and those on the accounting end are squawking. Should be interesting to see where it ends up. Even though I had no issues, his office put me down for another screening in 7 years, and they will call in 5 years to suggest a screening at that interval. Since I love the 64 oz Miralax cocktail, I'll go in 5 if my insurance will pay for the ride!

Rob W1AEX

You're lucky, Rob! I had to down a full gallon of this crap called "Go Lightly". I was told that it is better "served chilled or on the rocks". Kinda tasted like green Gatorade, YUK! !
It was supposed to replenish your electrolytes while emptying you out. That was the worst part! !

Well Rob, my guess is within the next 7 to 10 years the imaging procedure being developed here will work it's way to the better hospitals in the country. You still gotta drink the cocktail for best results but after that it's a walk in the park...... with your clothes on!

Yah Frank, keeping your electrolytes in balance during the "clean-out prep" is extremely important. It's my understanding that many of the deaths attributed to the widely used "Fleet Oral Enema Prep" (sodium phosphate) were a result of dehydration with subsequent organ failure. The lawsuits are still flying over that one!

 example - http://www.vlaw.com/DangerousDrugs%2Ffleetenema-content.html

At any rate, when using the new kinder and gentler preps, such as Miralax, mixing it with Gatorade is a really good idea to help keep your electrolytes somewhere close to normal.

Buddly, are you describing the "virtual colonoscopy" procedure? It's available at the affiliated hospital of the smaller facility I went to, but my insurance would not pay for it. Their explanation was that if the virtual colonoscopy detected an anomaly then it would need to be supplemented with a regular colonoscopy procedure to remove the polyp(s) or inspect the area of concern, which would mean 2 procedures instead of one. I guess, according to their math, one procedure was cheaper than two?

Years ago I had a sigmoidoscopy, it is like a colonoscopy but they only go half way and don't give the drugs.   It can be done by a nonspecialist.   It is painful, as you are completely awake and if they find a polyp, you have to get a colonoscopy anyway.   If your doctor suggests this procedure, refuse it and get the real deal instead.

Yes Rob, that is what it is being labled as. Being in the family study program it's a free procedure for me as would be a follow up trip to remove any "anomoly", as you put it.

With the many instances of cancer in my family on both sides we were asked to participate in the study primarily to see how genectics play into the chance of cancer in individuals.

I didn't want to  resurrect an aging topic but I need to give credit where credit is due. I just returned this morning after having the proverbial 'exhaust port' scoped due in part to completing 50 laps around Ol' Sol. The doctor said I'm clean as a whistle and that I shouldn't need another for about 7 years. If it wasn't for the tragedy that had befallen of this thread, I probably would have kept putting it off. Thanks Dave!!!!!

Mikey, excellent post.

It means a lot to have followed through.