The AM Forum

And to think that this was the state (errr Colony) that hosted the Boston Tea Party!

  The downfall of Atlantis was that people became excessively civilized.

With a little adjustment for our less advanced technology ways.

Such as a forced collective tax burden for;

private garbage pick-up.
roads and highways of multi layer design.
health care for the obese.
health care for those who refuse to exercise.
health care for those who refuse to alter what they eat or drink.
auto body care for autos without studded snow tires.
vanity protection in the civil court system.
traffic lights when not necessary.
no tort maximums.
Military action outside our country!

And many more!    73    John,K1DEU

Rite on Mike;  I clearly remember the "Live free or die"  magnet that New Hampshire put out there so New Hampshire ites would have better public schools and highways.  Quite a large chunk of Massachusetts residents kept their businesses in Mass but built new residential homes nearby in the clean low populated State of New Hampshire.

Eventually with lax septic regs many new residents of NH polluted their-selves. And also found that its so expensive to build and maintain your own water and septic individual systems that there wasn't any money remaining for better public schools from the States Income tax. With no property tax.

IT is always a never ending dilemma for each individual wants their taxes to be used differently.  73 John, K1DEU

Mike,
        I have seen this happen here in the state of Md. Some of the larger festers have actually had people from the sales tax division going around to hamfest vendors at some of the larger fests and forcing them to sign up for sales tax accounts. This has happened at both Timmonium, and West Friendship (Howard County) in the past. One year it dramatically reduced the amount of participation of hamfest and flea market vendors.

I have asked a few friends that are hard core hamfest vendors about how they dealt with it. Apparently, there is some kind of loophole that does allow them to get around it in this state. I dont know what it is, but only the vendors that have business selling similar merchandise are the only ones collecting sales tax at hamfests. Pete might be able to shed some light on this.

I believe, in this state tailgating is considered like having a yard sale at your home. You are allowed to have a limited number of them (maybe 1 or 2 a year) without having to charge sales tax. I guess they figure that the "income" from taxing them isnt worth the collection costs.

I do remember that when they tried to go after the tailgate vendors at some of the fests they just packed up and went home. They must have gotten it figured out, because it no longer seems to be an issue. I did attend the Timmonium fest this year for the frst time in many years, it was barely 25% of what it used to be!! But the West Friendship (Howard County) and Westminster festers seem to be slowly growing!!  

The bottom line is that with all of the give away programs the guvmint has in place, the money to pay for them has to come from somewhere....................

Back in its prime, the hamfest at Gaithersburg (MD) was canceled by the organizers one year when the state announced that sales tax would have to be collected by everyone who was selling.  This was a very big deal, because of implications for ALL such fleamarkets in the state, beyond radio merchandise.

The state apparently saw G'burg as a high visibility way to implement the new policy.

They didn't count on killing the event, nyah nyah.

As Frank points out, somehow in the time since then, the state has relaxed or otherwise distinguished between commercial vendors with a business license and individuals selling small-scale.

Here in Ct. it is all about providing high paying government jobs for your pals while you tax businesses out of the state.

Up until this change, it was legal to hold flea markets at hamfests because there was an exclusion in the definition of a "promoter".  Excluded were those who hold 3 or less events per year and less than 7 consequetive days.  These exclusions were removed.

Hey, I didn't vote for ANYONE who is currently in the Mass state government.

On another matter, in recent years, New Hampshire has SIGNIFICANTLY tightened their septic requirements, to where they are as strict as Mass.  The septic requirements are probably one of the few laws I've seen that actually make sense, and I live in a house with a private septic system and private well.

As "Old Buzzard George" (W1GAC) used to say.....................

"I live in Framingham, in the state of Taxechusettes"     

I got hit with this at Timonium.  I sent the great state of the Peoples Democratic Republic of Maryland a check for $10 based on sales of $200 or so and they were happy.

Yes, the tax guys were out in force at Timonium walking around signing people up. It's sad how greed can kill events like this. Somebody spends $50 in gas to come to a Hamfest and sell $100 worth of stuff and then has to pay a setup fee AND taxes besides. No wonder attendance was way down this year. At this rate the club will not be able to rent all the facilities one of these years and that leaves the Fairgrounds free to book other shows at the same time. I remember what that was like in the eighties. If you didn't get there by 7am you could not park anywhere nearby. I was there once when there was a Hamfest/Computer show, horse show, and flower show all on the same day. What a mess.  :(

One could argue that people who attend these events provide taxable revenue to local stores and restruants, not to mention hotels. All these places are taxable.

I was there for that. As they went table to table shutting down people who didn't have the required 'papers', a large angry crowd began to follow them about. They were making noises about shutting down the hamfest. They eventually fled to an office in the dome building, with a bunch of us out in the hallway shouting questions and comments. Two uniformed state troopers came and stationed themselves at the door to the room to keep the crowd back, probably now over 100 people between the angry and the curious.

About a half hour later, the troopers got a radio call, and opened the door to show an empty office and disperse the crowd. The two tax men had been evacuated out a window into a waiting trooper car and driven off the site!

People were just Yellified!

My understanding was that the festival promoters aggressively went after the tax people for over zealous enforcement and IIRC, had the effect of getting at least one of them dismissed from his post. In later years, they had forms for you to get and the deal was it was between you and the state to take care of the tax stuff, but I don't recall any other times when they had enforcement on the site.

But it took a toll on the hamfest. Before that year, it was second only to Dayton. After that year, it was a shadow of itself and seemed never to quite recover and eventually got so poor it wasn't worth the drive from Ithaca. I hear it's doing better in it's new incarnation at the new site. I may give it a try this year.


I recommend a nice bubbling cauldron of fresh black tar near the entrance marked "Free", with complimentary feathers available at various vendors.

Net result- more stuff to ebay or the dump.

Maybe time to set up the Hosstraders net again

Every state and every local government in the country as well as the federal government is effectively broke and looking for new ways to suck more revenue out of the public. 

A prime example is the "spectrum auctions", where the FCC extracts exorbitant fees that go directly into the general treasury funds, thousands of times beyond what it costs them for administration, licensing and enforcement of usage of that spectrum, which they never owned to begin with. Where do you think the corporations ultimately get that money to pay off those successful auction bids?

I would expect this to get worse before it gets better. In the meantime,  politicians will keep the TV-addicted public distracted and confused via sensationalist media reports of their high-profile campaigns to enact insignificant revenue-saving measures like shutting down WWV and NPR.

I think Dayton has been requiring you to fill in some kind of tax form to go with the purchase of a flea market space, but it would be up to the vendor to keep track of what they actually sell, and I doubt if many state agents have a clue what most of the stuff would sell for. This may apply only to regular vendors who actually do it as a business.

Besides, the state (or some state) has already collected tax on this stuff once, when it was first sold as new. Looks like double-dipping to me.

float dem bonds we need everything.
So government can skim the system for their cut to manage the stupidity

Bring the shows to NH but keep all those damn residents living down in MA or wherever. ::)

The 2010 census says my little border town grew 18% the last decade and most all those a-holes want to do is spend, spend, spend and raise taxes.  Luckily many lost their homes and hopefully returned to their welfare states. ;D  Windahm grew 28% thanks to I-93 running thru the middle of it.

Heck, the MA papers have even photographed their politicans shopping in NH! ;)

Carl

Another thing to think about is whenever you set up and sell something.  Does this throw a flag into the state income tax side of things because you are selling something that could be considered as a gain.  Lets say you bought a piece of Collins gear back in the 1970's for $500 and sold it for $600 this year.  If you failed to report this on your state income tax would the state income tax people get crappy enough to force you to show what it originally cost you and what it was sold for?  Remember a capital gain through the sale of property is never indexed for inflation.  It also makes me wonder how many tax agencies have their people monitoring PayPal accounts on EBay.

1 - Feel free to come up to NH and spend/buy anything you want :)

2 - Then Go back to Taxachusettes and deal.  The problem with the migration north is the first thing people do is want to put in all the allotments and entitlements etc that they had 'down south' or put that farmer out of business because of "nusinces" like noise, or smells etc.  Eventually you end up with the same crappy conditions as down there.  Salem NH is known as "Northern Lawrence" cause of that.  
Maine is a great example of this, everything from Portland south was filled with folks from Mass, who promptly outweighed the rest of the state in votes, so the state did a gradual sliiiide to the left and now they are stuck, with the working folks up taxed out of employment.

On a side note, Massachusetts actually tried to collect Sales taxes on purchases made in NEW HAMPSHIRE (tires to be exact).  The case ended up getting resolved that was just a lil-bit ILLEGAL and NH actually stepped up and defended our small businesses.  

 

In Maine and Vermont, it's called "use tax".

If you buy something via mail order, or online, you are supposed to report it and pay taxes on that purchase.
( if it is an item you could have purchased, and would have paid sales tax on in State.)


Look at all the regular vendors at any hamfest.
75% of them should be collecting sales tax.

Of course they should all be reporting their income too, but I bet that doesn't happen  :-)

Not wanting to incite violence but I do support moderate disobedience,  I WILL go out of my way to attend a show as a seller that I know will come under scrutiny by the Mass DOR. Hopefully a few other fellow  Tax,,, Errr...AM Miscreants with some balls would join me in telling the DOR (In a chant) !!.. Yes, this has me pissed! What would W2VJZ (RIP IRB) say..?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZd2NsO7aD4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZd2NsO7aD4)

Steve  >:(

Im sure if you live in NH and sell in MA that you can just throw away the paperwork. Now if you live in the remaining socialist NE states you are probably screwed. ::)

I used to sell at Dayton for many years and every show the D0R clowns handed out paper work which went right into the trash. Every other year I registered under another name, address and phone #.  After about 10 years of that I just got fed up with the Dayton Hamfest...period.

Arkansas has a use tax law along with the sales tax statute.  They audited my business for use tax and after paying their auditor for 3 days of her time, she said I owed 258.00 for three years of use tax.  Now, how the heck do they justify paying the auditor for three days time and she only collects $258.00?  Talk about deficit spending....

You don't understand. It isn't about collecting money, it is about getting high paying government jobs with all the perks for your buddies.

Yep.  And appointing some of the most incompetent people on the planet  as "commissioners"  for specialized high level jobs is corrupt. They need to stop that practice.

What gets me is watching the drunken sailors raise the local school budget for the tenth year in a row. After they thin out the local taxpayer ranks thru defaults, where do they go next for mo money?  Muni bonds are next to get wasted.  Gut the Board of Ed and all the buro-fat and phase in internet class learning. Reduce our property taxes by 80%.  


T

The REVENOOERS !

Great story !

Reminds me of the movie "Ghostbusters" where the government guy orders his workers to release all the evil sprits the good guys had captured in that vault, because they're being contained in an UNAPPROVED grid of some kind.

Reaction of the workers and the government guy is priceless.  We can hope they soiled themselves at Rochester that year too.

Soiled, what an interesting PC term

Here I thought the downfall of Atlantis was that it fell into the ocean?
Who knew....

  "   Soiled, what an interesting PC term.   "


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5742933797940084418#


klc

Ummm.... wasn't Wonder Woman from Atlantis too?


T

I wasn't there that year, but I remember the story.  Also heard that it pretty much shut down the hamfest anyway, as many of the vendors packed up and left.  A big waste of time and money for those who had travelled long distances to attend.



All hamfests seem to be down these days, including Dayton. I attended Rochester a couple of times back in the 70s, and I remember then it had a huge flea market that probably had more of the kind of stuff I always look for at a hamfest per square yard than Dayton.  One of those years I rode along with some other guys from the Boston area and missed most of the goodies, because the other guys in the crew wanted to hang around the hotel room that morning and watch Saturday morning cartoons on the boob tube while their hangovers dissipated, so by the time we got to the hamfest, everything was well picked over. Speaking of the urge to kill...

It's almost a moot point, in 5 or 10 more years we won't have any hamfests.
I see a lot more interested in selling than buying now a days.

Not all, Don. NEAR-Fest continues to thrive and even expand. We set a new attendance record last spring, in fact. No, it doesn't happen every event, and we're not as big as Dayton, but it goes to show that the reports of the demise of ham radio are greatly exaggerated.

I see a distinct parallel between the mentalities of those on air who call CQ to make activity happen, and those who listen around waiting for it to happen. With NEAR-Fest, a group of dedicated folks who wanted to continue the tradition of an event dear to them stepped in and made it happen. The enthusiasm is contagious, just as a group enjoying an AM round table pulls folks in.

No doubt there are many events that have folded or devolved a bit, something that is bound to happen since it seems nearly every club had a hamfest at some point. But a natural correction looks a lot different to those of us who have been at this for several decades vs. how it probably appears to a newbie collector type licensed during the ebay era who is expecting the world to be laid before them, for example. Quite often their only reference point is the shopping they did online to buy their collection, no concept of what's involved beyond that. To this type it probably seems like the sky is falling, amateur radio will be dead in a few years, etc. Then again, we have several new hams involved with the 'fest who understand what's required for a successful event and really take to the work at hand rather than avoiding it. It's all in the mindset and understanding that you get out what you put in.

Come up to NEAR-Fest next fall, Don. You'll see an event that will take you back to the 'fests you remember from the past. Plenty of gear, parts, and a good group of folks who enjoy making it happen. AM, homebrewing, and the spirit of radio in general are alive and well here.

Here's a local county commissioner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aifas6SzyYk
Why do they even keep their jobs? because idiots keep them in power.

Hateful people (no matter what or whom they hate on) who do not have enough class to keep such beliefs to themselves have no business in any public forum. Those who point at others who are different always think they know better than others and think themselves better than those they hate, yet if inspected closely their own mental or other irregularities will shine clearly.

Pretty pathetic, but that's the brave, new PC world we live in.

Fortunately the flea market/hamfest scene is at least, a bit more civilized. Even if it is populated by some rather interesting and entertaining types.  ;D

I'd love to, but it's so damned far from here.  Maybe I'll try to make it some year, but if I travel with anyone else, I'll make bloody sure they are serious about the hamfest.  I don't want to watch any more Saturday morning cartoons while a hamfest is going on.

After my wife retires, if I'm still kicking and Deerfield is still happening, maybe we could co-ordinate a visit with her parents (or whichever of her family members might still be kicking) that week.

With Dayton, its all about money and making rules and the a..holes who wear the badges (I dont mean the cops).....its a business, not a hobby.

At Deerfield, the money to setup is minimal, $20 for 2 days and there is no space limit; and the only rule is dont leave your junk behind or load the dumpsters with iron. Parking in an outer lot is free for anyone not selling. The only down side for some is that motels are few close by and its a 20 minute drive to Manchester. There are acres of empty space for motorhomes and campers outside the selling fence....all free.

I used to sleep in a van but gave up that silliness. Im an hour away over lazy back roads.

At the NEARFest and Shelby things, does the flea market open early at say, 6 a.m., or do they do the Dayton thing and keep everyone out until 8 a.m.?   I like the 6 a.m. openings.  The early bird gets the Radio ceramic rotary switches for $2 each.

There's these newfangled things called "airplanes", Don.  Worth a try  ;D

Problem is, that would defeat the whole purpose of a hamfest for me. You can't bring back much more "stuff" on a plane than a HT and a tube of toothpaste, and if you're lucky maybe you'll find room to cram a leather belt and carrying case for the HT.


At least at Dayton for the past few years the rent-a-cops have been a lot more friendly and less arrogant than they used to be. They must have changed security companies.  The ones  the used to hire were almost 100% a bunch of little pricks who went out of their way to hassle anyone any way they could.  I'm sure that drove a lot of people away after one visit.

NEARFest is the only hamfest I can get to, usually because the hobby takes a back seat to earning a living etc.   But it's always been worth it, even last time in the freezing pouring rain... Make a couple Eyeball QSO's, and you can still find neat stuff...

Dont know, 10AM is early for me ;D

When I used to sleep over the dealing and parties went on as long as you could stay awake. I think reveille on the PA system was 6 or 7AM in the pre Nearfest days and the gates opened a half hour later

That's my kind of flea market.   Going through stuff with a flashlight while sellers are still hauling boxes out of vans.
By the time the sellers who are running late show up, you have seen everything and are ready for new merchandise.
I always have with me QSL cards to leave in case I get something I can't immediately haul away and a half dozen of those canvas shopping bags that stores are selling to get people off paper.  The canvas bags are great for hauling away parts like small chokes.  They don't rip.  But I'm looking at one of those aluminum folding dollies as I get older.

Me too.  But I can usually get hyped up enough for a significant hamfest to crawl out of bed before the break of dawn and arrive on the scene as soon as people start setting up. No Saturday morning cartoons on TV in the hotel room for me.

I few times I have managed to sneak into the flea market at Dayton before official opening time.  There is always plenty of buying, selling and trading already going on, no matter how early I have ever arrived. Some vendors appear to already be in full swing.  I have made some of my best finds before the onrush of the crowd when they lift the barricades.

They tell me a lot of swapping and selling goes on Thursday afternoons, when some vendors arrive early to set up before the official Friday opening.

One of my best ever buys was on a Dayton Thursday in the mid 80's.

Id set up the indoor Radiokit display and had a helper watching it while I went outside. There was a CBer just starting to unload Bird line sections in 1.75" rack panels with FAA ID plates and they were complete with the meter cables. I made a deal for all 36 for $100. I probably have a dozen in use and a few spares and sold off the rest for over $50 each.

Another time on Thursday I bought a SB-230 minus the 8873 for $50 plus a pair of NIB 8874's were included. The seller said they wouldnt fit and he just wanted rid of it all.
I found a NIB 8873 on Friday for $100. That amp was converted to 6M for portable use and I stll have it and it still puts out 600W.

Fed Ex.

Then there is the HUZ mobile.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

When you create these monstrosities, just remember that you have to feed them, and feed them ................

I will be bringing a transformer up to the fest for rewinding. I've taken stuff back south in the past. The AM Pony Express works very well, if you aren't in a big hurry for something.