The AM Forum

Tsunami warning has been issued for the west coast of the U.S.

Watching the action in Japan... numbing.

eeegads what else is going to go wrong around here!!!
8.9 in Japan and they are very well prepared for that type of action there.
The Tsunami will be interesting to watch. They get stronger as they travel.

THe videos from various sources shows some scary stuff going on with the Tsunami and water flowing back into the land. 33 feet high as it amplifies.

Fred

This video shows the brutal situation:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8375389/Massive-tsunami-hits-Japan-after-earthquake.html

T

Been watching news footage, absolutely incredible. Waves of vehicles - cars, trucks, vans, buses - mixed in with boats and buildings, washing down what were streets and spilling over highways along the shore as the water recedes. Very awe-inspiring, to say the least.

There's also some footage shot from an airport showing the water as it envelopes the runways, taxiways, then ramps, washing away baggage carts and other vehicles. No planes visible, so they must have gotten them outta there fast.

God bless those people. The video is amazing.

I noticed that the Japanese really like white vehicles for some reason. Other videos aside from the horrible situation show all street to be very clean in their cities. There must be a lot of pride of ones living space over there. I visited Japan back in 1960 and always wanted to go back. It's probably a US friendly place to visit where you may walk around without fearing for your life.

I would think that gasoline is very expensive in Japan.  I am surprised to see the predominance of SUV's like in the U.S.  I guess all of the Corollas come here.

I just sent an email to a ham friend/former colleague in Yokohama City which is on the southwest coast of Tokyo Bay.  Tokyo is on the northeast coast of Tokyo Bay.  I will just have to wait and see what transpires.  That region is in the tsunami warning area.

No cable TV service here.  I have been watching the over-the-air HDTV today.  I found the best coverage by the Hispanic channel Univision this morning after the morning peak.  Much better coverage than the main 3 U.S. networks.  The main 3 went back to normal morning programming.  This afternoon and evening I have been watching NHK TV coverage also very good.  Their female commentator is excellent;  it's refreshing to see a knowledgeable, intelligent person talking long periods of time without other "experts".

I think that this disaster is going to be quite an upset to the electric power, communications and food supply both short term and for a very long time.

Since the islands are so densely populated, I wonder how the final casualty toll will compare with the big one in 2004 in Thailand.

Also, whenever a big one hits, watch out.  Expect another one, somewhere else in a distant corner of the world, to hit within a few days or weeks.

Already did. Tonga had one yesterday/today, as did Mexico and Fiji. There was even a 4.4 in the Gulf of California and Hawaii had a small one.

some news sources are stating Japan moved by 8 feet.  The same sources are stating the earths axis or tilt was altered by 4 inches due to this powerful quake.

New Zealand had a magnitude-6.3 earthquake on 2/22/11

NHK World reported that one observatory said it's position moved 4 meters west (I've also heard east).

I received an email back from my friend in Yokohama City.  He did not have any damage, no broken dishes, no fallen books.  The cellphone and landline use was limited for a while  He is concerned for the northern prefectures though.

The videos of the actual shaking proves how prepared they are for events like this. The electric stayed on....................well..............they are having problems containing the nuclear power plant from a meltdown. It's too bad that such a powerful source for electricity is so dangerous when things go wrong.

fred

 :o HOPFULY THEY WILL GET THOSE REACTORS UNDER CONTROL ???

before & after - use the center blue slider...


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/13/world/asia/satellite-photos-japan-before-and-after-tsunami.html?hp

I know a guy working for JPARC, a new particle accelerator at Tokai, just being commissioned to full power. It was built near the shore. All internet to there is dead now, and I can't get through except one town website that lists emergency shelters. NHK broadcast network there has the best coverage by far, superior to anything stateside of course. Its really tragic.

Interesting on NBC this morning they said there were no reports of looters.
I bet it would be different if there was a quake in LA.

I was at Dayton and got to talking to a Japanese ham. He owned a robotics company and was vely wealthy.  He said the basic reason there is less crime in JA is cuz of the homogenous culture - people of the same blood origin. He felt the melting pot of the USA was a different story - some people did not respect cultures different from theirs.

The Japanese really are a wonderful people and have a culture that emphacizes family, honor and respect. I hope five years from now this terrible event is just a faint memory.

T

Excellent article here that addresses this:

Japan Does Not Face Another Chernobyl
The containment structures appear to be working, and the latest reactor designs aren't vulnerable to the coolant problem at issue here.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198421680697248.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

if only them reactors in Japan would read this hack's op-ed piece in the WSJ
and behave themselves instead of blowing up one after the other and exposing
their rods  :P

Please sir, educate yourself to the science. No need for alarm. The "news" outlets are just trying to sell
AD space/commercial time.

Read this, you'll feel better:
http://mitnse.com/

Timing is everything.  Imagine how different the world would be to-day if this thing had blown in 1939 instead of 2011 - and how many more Japanese civilians would have still been alive in 1945.

But regardless of the outcome, I'm glad I don't have all my life savings invested in stock in the nuclear power industry.

you and the rest of the free market that has shunned financing nuclear power
for 30+ years now.  The free-market has spoken !

Not really. Nothing that regulated is a free market.

afaik, there are no regulations on investors. And the regulations on nuclear
power plants are no different than those on other types of power generation
that do attract private investment.

The only way to build new nuclear power plants is through heavy federal
subsidy (of the same sort that built the existing nukes). That's a corruption
of the free market (which has spoken on this issue for decades now).

Yes, certainly history would have been different, though they were already well on their way by 1939. Once a war machine is assembled, little can stop it, even an earthquake.  The Pacific war may have been delayed somewhat, but would have taken place regardless.  Those northern areas were less developed with smaller poulations back then too.

In ten years, satellite photos will show those areas as vibrant as before, but with newer and better technology. The only thing that can't be replaced is the lives lost which may number in the 10's of thousands they are now saying.

T

First you say it's the free market, then you say it isn't (gov subsidies). Which is it?

Selective data acquisition - the act of selectively choosing your data to support your position and rejecting, ignoring, or devaluing other data that compromises your argument. Complicated by the fact that no one individual can have all the data available or be completely unbiased in their outlook.

Georgia Power is building two new nuclear power plants and AFAIK there are no federal dollars involved. They are assessing each customer a surcharge starting this January to pay for them.

I'd feel sorry for ANYONE in .ja in the 1940s had they risen above the tyranny of their government.

The fact that they all sat there while their "emporer" ran around the world killing people makes each and every one of those pieces of sh1t complaisant in my mind.  ie, if you aren't part of the solution, you ARE the problem.

I agree with the observations on the nuke-lee-yar industry, though.  I'd HATE to have my trust tied up with them... Just as much as I enjoyed losing 230K dollars in a weekend in EnRon.

--Shane
KD6VXI

Actually, the containment vessels in the JA reactors are working exceptionally well. Consider that they have been subjected to not one but two major catastrophic events, first - a 9.0 earthquake, followed by a huge Tsunami. Singularly those events would destroy most any other industrial installations, the fact that the plants are still contained and are being shut down speaks volumes for the design and the operations personnel.

that's not accurate: http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NN-Georgia_Power_accepts_Vogtle_loan_guarantee-2106107.html

it's simple: investors (a.k.a. the free market) have decided on their own accord
that nuclear power is a federally subsidized and regulated industry they're not
interested in. At the same time, these same investors regularly invest in other
(federally subsidized and regulated) industries.

It's not that simple. All the power industry is regulated. Every state has a public utility commission. Many other industries are regulated and/or subsidized. Some get investment and some don't or get less. You have not explained why this is so.

Bottom line, this is a far more complex issue that you claim it is.

There is also a huge difference between a federal load guarantee, and a federal subsidy. A federal loan guarantee does not come at the expense of the taxpayer. It is clearly stated in the article.

Not until/unless the borrower defaults.

I agree. The free market speaks, and when it speaks negatively that means the industry it spoke about thusly is not worth even of government subsidy. The free
market, in this country, is the ultimate arbiter. How much of an explanation does
the "invisible hand" really need ? The invisible hand, in the case of nuclear
energy, has decided.


please don't put words in my posts. The bottom line here is that in this
country no industry has withstood the real free-market test of viability
for the simple reason that this "real free-market" is a figment of some
people's imagination. Our economy has been, and will always be, a mix
of capitalism and socialism (a.k.a. government subsidy).

73 de Peter

I've read that the the nuclear loan guarantees have a 50% risk of
default.

Does anyone know of any hams in the NE area of Japan?  Contact would be difficult when your QSA is gone... :'(

73DG

Check with the 7290 No Traffic Traffic Net. I heard'em Sunday waiting for emergency traffic from the "tsunami" region! :P

 
Bud,

Have you signed up for the IARN jump team yet?

T

Interesting youtube video showing a composite view of 6 of the main TV channels reacting to the quake and the alerts that the public gets via television.

The one in the upper left looks like a live broadcast.   Shaking starts at about 1:30, it looks like they have the source of the earthquake mapped at about 1:40 and the tsunami warnings mapped around 3:30. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOrAwvJLKxo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOrAwvJLKxo)

It pays to watch television I suppose.  :-\

IEEE Spectrum coverage is as good as any I've found.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/static/japans-earthquake-and-nuclear-emergency/?utm_source=techalert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=031711

Seems like things are heading toward a major problem at the Nuclear power station.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42124500/ns/world_news-asia-pacific/

It doesn't sound too good over there

I cannot imagine living through this list:

-- Earthquake

-- Tidal Wave

-- Food/fuel shortage

-- Homeless in freezing weather

-- Radiation

-- Cholera/dysentery/other refugee epidemics

It appears Honshu had a 5.1 Mag earthquake about 11 hours ago.

Let's hope this is a precursor of things settling down, I.E., aftershock intensity is weakening.

http://quakes.globalincidentmap.com/

It also appears Arkansas had a 2.3 Mag aboout 12 hours ago.

I am really suprised the New Madrid fault zone hasn't shown some rumbling:

http://www.scchealth.org/docs/ems/docs/prepare/newmadrid.html

Phil

Now, the US military says it is considering evacuating the largest naval base in Japan in order to get away from the plume of radioactive particles that could blow over the area.

The situation with the power plant has completely overshadowed news about the earthquake and tsunami, and it just keeps getting worse.

Looking round the pacific rim, we have recently seen earthquakes in Chile and New Zealand, not to mention the one in Haiti which is not exactly on the pacific rim, but not that far away.  Now Japan.  The only corner of the rim that remains unaffected is at the San Andreas Fault on the west coast. I wouldn't be too comfortable right now if I lived in California.  These things tend to occur in clusters, usually at opposite sides of the tectonic plate involved.

Roger Don;

A good place not to reside is from Juneau, Alaska Through Seattle down to Los Angeles, San Francisco south to San Diego.

Meditate and time travel forward.

Don I used to listen to some guys on 75 meter AM who worked in the TV Cable business near Boston and they could never wait for Friday night to party early.

Around here folks are more worried about the Hayward fault than the San Andreas. These things aren't predictable but if there is such a thing as overdue, the Hayward fault is overdue. It runs right through the East Bay, Berkeley, Oakland, Hayward, Fremont. Then, of course there is the big fault up in Washington and countless faults in Southern California.

Am I thinking crazy or does this Earthquake thing usually happen in early Spring or fall??
As the Earth is tilting on its axis for the seasonal changes, the stress on these fragile plates increases.
Mother Earth is getting rickety in her old age.

What's funny is I spent a year station at Mare Island Naval Station near Vallejo, CA. We never experienced an earthquake but they had one back here in PA!  ::)

Sadly this will not be normal activity. This will be the end of 13,000 years of pollution of many types. The Planet Earth will survive but we dangerous Humans come last in survival.

Earth quakes happen every day in many places. This is not unusual or different. Do not buy into the silly hype on TV.

Right you are Steve.
 In fact, this few 100 year period of relatively stable affairs is an anomoly for the earth. Geologic and climatic historys show the earth much more unstable, as a rule.

Sorry John, pollution has nothing to do with it. To think it does shows the arrogance of man, nothing more!  Earth don't even know we're here!

No they don't. It's a conspiracy. The government is causing them through HAARP. When they're not causing hurricanes in the south, they create earthquakes. I read it on the internet just before the Chemtrails and after the NSA Sex Slaves and JFK Was My CIA Controller articles. So it must be true. :o


You know what they say, Fred - if you have to ask.....  ;D

Gee Dudley and I thought women were arrogant, not men.

BTW what TV channel is all the good silly stuff on ?

Did anyone notice Hugh Hefner lasted only 6 minutes on the dance show ? Geritol time.

(Minor quibble)

IIRC, the Earth's Axis is always "tilted": we have seasons because the Earth revolves around the Sun, and the tilt of our axis with respect to the Sun causes the poles to alternate between being close to the Sun (June) and farther away (December).

I don't think the Earth's Axis changes it's inclination with respect to the ecliptic plane: although there is some minor "wobble", if the Earth's Axis changed inclination that much, I doubt we'd all be here in the first place.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_solstice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_solstice)

FWIW. YMMV.

73,

Bill, W1AC

Id be more inclined to consider the effect of the planets core shifting. According to NASA the N magnetic pole will be in Siberia by 2025 at the current rate of acceleration.

Carl

Hey, isn't Elvis in on the action? And all this has to somehow be related to those bogus Apollo moon missions. IARN is slacking on its mission.

The moon was as close as it will get to the Earth the other night....It has the power to move tons of ocean water with its gravitational pull..........Couldn't it move tectonic plates as well......

Certainly, and it does, rather minutely and constantly affecting the very fluid medium of water, with quite a bit of hysterisis.

You might try living on Io as a better example.

-but the gravitational differential of the moon is but a very minor fraction of Jupiters.
What do you imagine moonbeings are saying about the nasty ol' Earth?

"uh oh, another Earthquake..."

So your saying,
"uh oh, another Moonquake?" ;D

A seismic researcher told CNN Sunday that he warned the owner of the earthquake-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant two years ago that the facility could be vulnerable to a tsunami.

The owner, Tokyo Electric Power Company, appeared to ignore the warning, said seismologist Yukinobu Okamura.

TEPCO has not responded to Okamura's allegation

Okamura heads Japan's Active Fault & Earthquake Center. He said he told members of a TEPCO safety committee two years ago that data collected from layers of earth show that in the year 869 a massive tsunami devastated where the plant now is. The six-unit Fukushima Daiichi plant is located about 240 kilometers (150 miles) north of Tokyo.

Without adequate safety measures, a repeat of the first millennium disaster at the site of a nuclear power plant could be far worse, Okamura said he told the committee then. He said he raised the issue because no one else did.

"I found that odd so I really wanted to speak out and let people know about it," Okamura said. "No one reacted in any way."

Expert: Japan nuclear plant owner warned of tsunami threat (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/27/japan.nuclear.disaster/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29)

Saw on the news just now where earlier today they had a 6.5 earthquake off the northeast coast of Japan. Resulting tsunami was less than 2 feet high.

Where our magnetic poles were is very interesting. Slightly more than 13,000 years ago one of our poles was centered on Greenwich, England.

Time Traveling forward one of our Poles will be located near Ceylon, India. This is the old North pole headed over the Arctic currently.

Our South Pole is currently headed  up South America to a location near San Palo, Brazil.  Its interesting That our NASA cannot function in the Southern Hemisphere. Our National Geographic Society however can and does.

What is NASA's function in the southern hemisphere? How does NGS "function" any differently from ARRL or IARU?

About 25 years ago, there was a mild earthquake (about a 2 on the Richter scale) that rattled some chinaware in New Jersey and frightened some people, but was otherwise harmless. The epicenter was in Old Bridge Township (Middlesex County) at Cheesequake State Park. So that one was called the Cheesequake Earthquake.

Don The National Geographic Magazine sometimes has naked pictures of people in the southern hemisphere. NASA has no naked pictures of Aliens from Earth or other Star Systems. Is that IARU dave or glenn's group ?

Phil do you have to discuss cheesecake when I don't have any. I walked right by 3 different sizes at the local Price Rite Supermarket several days ago.

At least they are not as paranoid as NPT.  I watched a show a few months ago that featured some scenes showing a tribal celebration in a central African village. It included a video of dozens of people of all ages, men, women and children, in some kind of a ritual dance; someone had gone to great pains to blur out all the women's boobs.  ::)

Maybe they didn't want dirty old men getting their jollys.

NASA may have 1000s of photos of aliens. We're just too dumb to understand what we're seeing. We've been brainwashed to look for green men with big eyes.

The Astronauts know exactly what's going on don't be concerned. NASA Administration is not allowed to share the details with the general public. Thousands world wide accurately predicted the Pacific Tsunami and are predicting the next one and where for any who participate.  73  John, K1DEU


And Don I also happened to see a lot of Religious ? editing on Public TV.  Might it be due to reduced tea funding. At least Public TV still tells the public about the body bag count at the end of the week.

Was sitting here yesterday late afternoon finishing up some work on the NEAR-Fest schedule and taking care of some other work online when the house shook with a thud like it had been hit by a truck or a tree had fallen on it. Wandered outside for a walk around the place, nothing. No damage of any kind other than one of the vent grills had popped out of the garage foundation wall. No vehicles embedded in walls, nothing of any kind. Weird.

So I tell the good wife about it when she gets here later saying that it felt like a sonic boom with no boom. We do have a lot of military jet activity here, so it made perfect sense to me. She thinks it might've been an earthquake, but there was no rumble or movement associated with it like I've experienced in quakes before.

She was right, though it was an aftershock I felt and not the actual quake itself. That took place at 3:30AM Monday morning. As Steve pointed out earlier in the thread, they can and do happen daily, all over the place. Even in his state.  ;)

http://www.wral.com/weather/story/9345607/

Just party, the world is supposed to end next year

According to a nut case heard regularly on the "Family Radio" shortwave bible beater in Florida, it's supposed to happen on 21st May of this year.  We have just a little less than two months to go before the sky falls!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldtc89fG8x0

Two things could end the world at any moment in my opinion:

1...Mandatory digital-only amateur phone. :P

2...Pushing the 'launch' button in the prez' "football". :'(

73DG

Since December 21, 2012 will come and go without major incident like every other dire prediction, you'd think the doom and gloomers would have picked a date farther out, like 2030, to milk it longer... ;)

T

The end-date was predicted roughly 5,125 years ago according to the Mayan long calendar. If you were a Mayan, you would know this when you received your 2012 Rigid Tools calendar because it would only have 21 days on it.

Here's the deal-

The Chinese population is about 1.4 billion. Assume the average person there weighs 100 pounds and you got 140,000,000,000 pounds of humanity. Thanks to the advent of GPS, it's now possible for that 140 billion pounds of humanity to jump exactly 1 foot in the exact coordination necessary to direct force on the earth to target specific places with ruptured faults and earthquakes.

Excellent comment Tom K1JJ.  The changes are interesting and exciting to many.

The Universe's calendar was first presented to the Egyptians by travelers from the Andromeda Circular Galaxy.  And of course there is no leap year correction, same number of days in a month. Bloodletting for all female Humans and animals the same and not by our moon. 13 is a very common denominator.  Most of us are on a messed-up calender  where Emperor Pope Gregory thought that our little sun was the center of the Universe. Converting from the Egyptian Melchizedek Calendar from Andromeda things should be very stable again on Earth by June-May 2013.

By the way these changes are occurring thorough-out the entire Universe, not  just this tiny Star system !

73  John, K1DEU

Who gave humans the Taylor Hybrid?

Including Y2K. And after 21 May 2011, Family Radio will just keep on broadcasting the rest of the bible thumpers, and the old dude will just disappear off their station with no further mention.

    Ah Yes Good Ole  Y2K. Well Lets count.   

The Universe counts only in Base 8 Never in Base 10.

Egads that means Y2K hasn't arrived yet.

Fukushima #2 core was breached earlier this morning...Termed "Past point of no Return" :'(

Iodine & lead undies for all....

73DG

Why not convert to a Base 12? Twelve can be evenly divided into 2 parts, 3 parts, 4 parts or 6 parts, many more possible factors of 12, than can base 10 which can be evenly divided only into 2 parts (2 X 5 = 10).  When actually building a physical structure, inches and feet are a lot easier than the metric system to work with and make mental calculations.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080221231103AAHbkeT

As someone once said, "All your base are belong to us."

Don; base 8--13 parts

When it comes to building this two story shack I live in 24x28 with rohn45g attached

fractions are not for this kid  and I had the local Sawyer cut my hemlock and spruce into real 2x4 2x6 2x8 2x12's

So you close your eyes when you bury the 20 nailhead into the soaking wet hemlock.

If anyone has friends on the west coast invite them east tomorrow

Where our magnetic and rotational axis poles were before is very interesting. Slightly more than 13,000 years ago one of our poles was centered on Greenwich, England. Time Traveling forward one of our Poles will be located near Ceylon, India. This is the old North pole headed over the Arctic currently. Our South Pole is currently headed  up South America to a location near San Palo, Brazil.  The new poles will not be freezing. Over the entire planet the weather will be extremely mild. Vegetation will receive water from dew and mild light rain at darkness. Winds will be mild making wind power often non-functional. The Equator will be shifted 80 degrees. Converting from the Egyptian calendar to the Gregorian calendar changes should be stable by May-June 2013. The equator will be length wise in the Atlantic off the east coast of America. 800 miles east of Boston, Massachusetts.

rumble/grumble

K1DEU said:

I had nothing to do with it!!!!!  ;)

May 21, at least we will get another Deerfield in before the sky falls down.
Mr. Mike should peddle the end of humanity sale. Might pick up some good deals for the next life.

I had to check since it is April fool's day.
A Taylor hybrid is a golf club

Frank said:
I have a couple Ping hybrids....  :D

I thought a hybrid was a Sollid State rig with Tube finals?

Hybrid: A telephone interface comes to mind.

73DG

50 Hz vs 60 Hz.  Japan has both so has a hard time doing load balancing.  I didn't realize this.  Article with a little description on some conversion technologies in IEEE Spectrum

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/why-japans-fragmented-grid-cant-cope/?utm_source=techalert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=040711

Amazing that a country the size of Japan has two uncompatable power grids. Moregreat planning and forward thinking.  ::) ::)

Hydro generator technology Our American way. 

I doubt that I'm the only person who tried to read a book in the 50's and gave up in about 1 hour due to the 20 cycle flickering of the incandescent bulb. The physical size and weight of the pole distribution pigs were quite the challenge to support with wooden poles in loose soil. Next 40 cycles was tried and we could read a lot longer after sunset. Its too bad Niagara couldn't crank out 90-120 cycles per second with reasonable generator bearing life. 60 is way to lossy to most.  John, K1DEU

I don't know where you were in the 1950s, but where I was growing up we had the same good ol' 60 cycle power that we've got now. Most of the battles over the "correct" frequency for AC lines were fought in the late 1890s and early 1900s. Seems to me you could get a higher frequency from the Niagara generators, at the same RPM and therefore the same bearing life, by increasing the number of poles in the generators.

ldb
K5WLF

In the 50's I was getting juice on the Ontario Niagara Falls Grid which was twenty cycles per second where I would spend summers near London, Ontario learning everything about farming and how to repair it ourselves. Westinghouse first upgraded the American side, and only near the falls in Ontario. John, K1DEU

Notice in Tesla's generator design that generation and distribution would have been the proper efficient way to go for the future.  

Memory tells me that Y2K was a computer thing......Maybe a naysayer connected it to the end of time. But anything with an IC in it or a microprocessor was doomed to fail and it would give a readout of some way out date and all record keeping would turn to Shi$.
The company I worked for paid some dude and his company $ 1 million to research all electronics that we used. We had to submit schematics and he would determine if it would pass or not. I was on stand-by at a remote microwave relay site along with the rest of the world waiting for some major failure of our backbone. I watched New Year eve celebrations from all over the world and the USA that night on a portable TV.
 

The truth is;

Mayan Calender stopped in 2012 only because the dude ran out of room on the rock!

A small mysterious ending inscript just translated reads:

Continued on next rock!

The hydroelectric plants at Niagara Falls used to deliver 25 cps to residential customers.  The power authority in Ontario spent a good part of the 1950's going door to door to convert residences to 60 cps.  This included changing motors - 7 million of them according to the Ontario Hydro One website http://www.hydroone.com/OurCompany/Pages/timeline.aspx (http://www.hydroone.com/OurCompany/Pages/timeline.aspx) .  My father recalls them changing the motor in our refrigerator.

Some industrial customers did not convert during the 50's and I believe that the 25 cycle generator at Niagara Falls did not get phased out until 2009.

Wikipedia page on utility frequencies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_frequency)

In the Chicago of the 1950s, there were still places receiving Edison's 110 volts DC.

IIRC, it had to do with DC power still being needed for buildings with old time elevators.

Remember the appliances tagged, "110 volts, AC or DC"?

My dad used to work for the subway system in Boston: he told me that they supplied 600V DC power to many downtown buildings, and that it was used to run the motors on the elevators. I assume that this meant the traction motors were driving the elevators directly, instead of via the hydraulic systems which are now common.

I remember the AC/DC motors: they had commutators and so could take pretty much any kind of power. When capacitors became cheap and reliable, the "brushless" AC motor became the norm.

One thing that has always puzzled me is how the number of poles on an AC generator determines the frequency. I'd appreciate a link to a site that explains this clearly.

73,

Bill W1AC

Theres a good interactive explanation here:   http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/ViewObject.aspx?ID=IAU14108 (http://www.wisc-online.com/Objects/ViewObject.aspx?ID=IAU14108)

Well, that helped a lot, and thanks. If you know where one is available, I'd like to see an illustration of an actual Alternator (or is it "Generator"?), which has a lot more wire 'n stuff.

Thanks again.

Bill, W1AC

The old Audels books have great photos and text.

73DG

You can see my pictures of hydro dam innards including the A.C. generators in great detail here: http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/travel/steelsoldiers4/index.html (http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/travel/steelsoldiers4/index.html) My friend was in charge of part of this job of replacing all of the hydro units. I spent about 8 hours there crawling in and out of one of them that had been taken offline and taking pics of all of it. I hope you like them.

These below are not alternators but they are 25Hz to 60Hz frequency changers from the 1920's. You could wait for enough of the building to be torn down then maybe go get one of them. Union labor in that area, not a cheap job no matter who does it, but there are not so many opportunities like this. These are from September of 2009 so I would have to check with him and see about the status.

" On another note, I thought you might be interested in the job we are currently bidding on. Ameren is wanting to salvage the Frequency Changers from the Page Avenue Station (in St. Louis). Seems as though they are some sort of 25hz to 60hz motor-generator sets from the 1920's.

 I have copied some info below:

 
Frequency Changers
Some need for 60-Hz power arose shortly after the completion of the Keokuk hydroelectric station. Accordingly, a 2.5-MW synchronous frequency changer was installed in 1918 in the main generator room of the Keokuk plant. This unit supplied 11-kV, 60-Hz power in Illinois via conduits across the adjacent dam to a substation in Hamilton where it was stepped up to 33 kV for transmission.
By 1930, the city of St. Louis was experiencing an increase in both 25-Hz and 60-Hz loads. The Keokuk station was a "run-of-river" plant, meaning that its ability to generate 25-Hz power varied according to the seasons of the year and the consequent variation in flow of the Mississippi River. Also, by this time, a large 60-Hz hydroelectric project was in operation on the Osage River about 130 mi southwest of St. Louis. Transmission lines from this development had been run to the Page Avenue substation in St. Louis, which was also the terminus for the 25-Hz lines from the Keokuk station. Consequently, it was decided that it would be advantageous to provide a substantial interconnection between the 25 and 60-Hz systems in St. Louis. This would enable the 60-Hz power from Osage to assist in supplying the 25-Hz system when the generating capacity of the Keokuk plant was lower than normal. Likewise, at other times, some 25-Hz power from Keokuk could be used to supply the rapidly increasing 60-Hz load in St. Louis. The solution was the installation of reversible frequency changer units at the Page Avenue substation. Accordingly, two 20-MW Scherbius frequency changers were installed at Page Avenue and operated by the Union Electric Light and Power Co. of St. Louis.
The Scherbius system of speed control for large ac machines had been developed by Arthur Scherbius, a German electrical engineer, and its use had been licensed to GE. (Scherbius was later responsible for the development of the "Enigma" code machine used extensively before and during World War II.) For a period of time, the Scherbius system was widely used for speed control of ac motors driving the roll stands of steel rolling mills. As applied to frequency changers, it allowed for the control of both kW and kvar flow in either direction.
The control of power factor was desirable for the Osage River transmission system. It had been determined that an installation of 50,000 kvar in synchronous condenser capacity at St. Louis otherwise would have been required (synchronous motors operating at leading power factor with overexcited fields).
The Scherbius control was applied to a wound-rotor induction motor. A specialized "polyphase regulating machine" was used to supply the rotor of the former machine with the appropriate voltage at the correct slip frequency. The control of load and power factor was achieved by means of a special ac exciter acting on the field windings of the regulating machine.
In the Scherbius type of frequency changer, such a wound rotor induction motor was coupled to a conventional synchronous machine whose power factor could be controlled by adjusting the field excitation supplied from a small dcexciter. Thesynchronous machine was connected to the 60-Hz system, and the stator of the wound rotor induction machine was connected to the 25-Hz system.
The Scherbius control allowed for minor frequency variations on both power systems, namely from 24.5 to 25.5 Hz and from 59.5 to 60.5 Hz. The speed of the set was, of course, fixed by the actual frequency of the 60-Hz system due to the synchronous machine. The frequency variations, then, were accommodated between the stator and the rotor of the induction machine.
Each of the two Page Avenue frequency changers was 60-ft long and composed of a total of seven distinct rotating machines supported by six bearings.
The individual machines were:

   1. a 5-kW sub-exciter for the synchronous machine
   2. a 192-kW main exciter for the synchronous machine
   3. a 28,600-kVA, 13.8-kV, 60-Hz synchronous machine
   4. a 1,200-hp, 60-Hz starting motor for the set
   5. a 28,700-hp, 25-Hz wound-rotor induction machine
   6. an 890-kVA, 285-V polyphase regulating machine
   7. an 8-kVA, 25-Hz ac exciter for the regulating machine.

These frequency changers were complex in their construction, but it was said that their operation was "simple."
Later Developments
In 1939, a third 20-MW Scherbius frequency changer set was added at the Page Avenue substation. This set was similarto the two existing sets except that the synchronous machine was on the 25-Hz end rather than on the 60-Hz end. This feature, in conjunction with the existing sets, meant that synchronous machines were available on both systems to simplify the control of reactive power flow on each. Power factor control by means of the Scherbius regulating machines was possible, but more complicated to implement.
In 1942, two of the 25-Hz generators at the Keokuk station were being rebuilt for 60-Hz operation using 116-pole windings and an operating speed of 62 r/min. By 1973, the six generators at the north end of the station were producing 60-Hz power at 13.8 kV. This was then stepped up to 69 kV for transmission to area substations.
The conversion of all 15 generators to 60-Hz operation was completed in 2002. The Scherbius frequency changers at the Page Avenue substation had remained in operation until that time, but then were retired and scrapped. Also, the original 110-kV, 25-Hz transmission lines to St. Louis have been retired. A current long-term power plant improvement is the installation of new stainless steel main turbine runners to replace the original cast iron runners (Figure 10).
Today, the Keokuk plant is operated by AmerenUE, which is the direct corporate descendant of the former Union Electric Light and Power Co.

 I have also attached a current picture (jpg) and three scanned vintage pictures (pdf) of the machines.

 It will be a shame to see them get cut up, but I have no other ideas for them. Actually, the entire building will be torn down next year and we are (hopefully) going to be responsible for removing the frequency changers prior to this."

The tearing down could have been delayed due to cost.

In the 12 minute video at the link below, two people measure radiation levels as they drive and hike back to Fukushima. It's an eerie journey that starts 30km away and proceeds to a point 1.5km from the Fukushima power plant catastrophe. The scenes have an eerie "end of the world" kind of feeling with cracked roads, abandoned towns, wandering livestock and dogs searching for food. The devastating horrors that the evacuated residents have gone through, and continue to suffer from, is something to ponder.

The HD video can be viewed at a resolution of 1080p in full-screen if your internet connection can supply the bandwidth. Lower resolutions are available in the YouTube player drop-down menu if you'd rather not pull down the 550 meg 1080p version. The two radiation meters squawk, beep, and chirp rather incessantly as the levels steadily increase.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp9iJ3pPuL8

YEA Bill
Death traps.......one side of the AC line tied to the chassis and we did not have polarized plugs................don't stand bare feet on a concrete floor and the chassis. NASTY

There are now efforts to recover the pets left behind and starving in the evacuated area.