The AM Forum

This got my attention when I discovered that Lucasfilm was threatening to sue these guys for making something that looks like a lightsaber:

http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html (http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html)

Well, good ol' George still owes me one for remaking "Star Wars" into just another computer-generated POS, so I ordered one immediately just to spite him.

Apparently, everyone else did, too. I placed the order in mid-July, and became part of a huge backlog. After several months clearing the backlog (and who knows how long clearing Customs), I got mine on Monday.

This is NOT A TOY. Those annoying laser pointers that people are altogether too reckless with are 5-10mW of red light. This is 1W of blue light. It is literally the most powerful battery-operated handheld laser you can buy. Class IV lasers aren't even legal in some countries. Australia, for example, has banned them outright.

To give you some idea, the spot from this laser is bright enough to cause permanent eye damage if viewed for more than a quarter-second within 200 meters without eye protection. The human eye can respond to overloads by basically releasing an opaque bleach to protect the retina, but for whatever reason this process doesn't get triggered by blue light. Think "arc welder".

Why would I buy something like this (besides the aforementioned contempt)? For the same reason I keep a butane soldering iron; when you're in the field and far away from the nearest power outlet, simply stopping work isn't an option.

It's a very powerful tool when used responsibly with respect for it's capabilities. Like a firearm, you simply never point it at anything you don't want to burn a hole in. Also like a firearm, it'll only take one moron to ruin things for us responsible adults who use this wisely.

If you heard about these lasers when they made the news over the summer, I can tell you they're real (after the long delay, I was starting to wonder, myself), and they work as advertised. They aren't pointers or leveling lasers, they're cutting/burning lasers. If you don't have a need for a cutting laser, this is NOT the laser for you! There are many more lasers out there that are far less dangerous.

If you do have a practical use for such a thing, it's a real and viable option.

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

The 2nd Amendment of the Constitution gives us the right to carry one of those bad boys for personal defense.
Better for a perp to be permanantly blinded than have a .44 Mag put a 3" hole in him.

I'm with you 100%, Bill. Unfortunately, large groups of people make very lucrative careers out of trying to find ways to bypass that.

...which is why I fear the one moron who's going to spoil it for the rest of us.

Isn't this sorta like having a nuclear hand grenade?   ;D

Interesting potential as a weapon. One watt - wow.  It was just a matter of time before they came out with a consumer model like that. Is the law 100mw as the max now? I dunno.

Here in CT (last I read) they are about to make a TASER legal to carry by the general public. It requires a training course and a new permit. ($100)   I axed the gun shop about it and they seemed oblivious to it. So things are changing.


Anyway, on subject of using the laser as a weapon...  There was an article sometime back about a large military version being deployed on the back of a large truck. It could supposedly take out eyesight 1/4 mile+ away. It showed a fictitious picture of a group of maybe 100 soldiers being taken out and blinded. They didn't have safety glasses, evidently. The author thought the reaction by the public would be total outrage. IE, it's OK to blow someone up or shoot them, but unacceptable to blind them for life.

The same attitude took place when mustard gas was used in WWI. The films of blind soldiers marching with their arms on the shoulders of the man in front went over the top, thus they banned its use.

So, I'd say the laser used as a weapon to blind will likely hit tremendous resistance by the public and legislators.

Personally, I like the strongest pepper spray available and a Colt 45 for protection.  I even added a homemade 120db electronic siren if Yaz is ever attacked by a big dog again.

Using a laser to burn off an arm like in Star Wars would probably fly, but the eye thing would freak out most people I think.  The liability in court could be huge too. I'm not against the idea, just speculating on the explosive political potential if it got widely used.

T

I believe this is old news and Lucas dropped the lawsuit.

A dangerous weapon, yes. 1w of blue light!  I've been accidentally and temporarily blinded myself by my redlight laser level which is about 1/10 that power.

I know Class IV is 1200mW and below, depending on wavelength. IIIb is something like 500mW, again depending on wavelength. Not sure what the legal limit is for unregulated ownership of a laser.

I've always been on the side of something being a weapon only when used as a weapon. That's how I feel laws should be applied. Any other regulatory model is unrealistic, because absolutely everything on the planet can be used to kill someone. Couldn't you just ramrod a Care Bear down someone's throat until they suffocated? Of course you could, if you really cared enough.

Of course, that model is never the one that's applied. So far, nobody has used one of these things to deliberately blind someone. Of course, any laser can be used for that purpose, even the little 5mW red laser pointers, and laser-induced eye injuries are always permanent and irreversible.

There are real dangers to this thing, and operating it requires the same caution that operating a firearm requires. If used responsibly, it's a great tool. Used maliciously, it's a weapon (though not likely deadly, unless it blinds a pilot or driver). That speaks less to the device and more to the person wielding it.

Another reason I wanted to buy one before the soccer moms found out about it and used it as another reason to tell me how to live my life.

Bear in mind that it takes several seconds to unlock the laser, that it originally comes up in low-power pulsed mode, and it takes a few seconds to get it to full strap with a constant beam. The videos on the website show the previous model with a simple on/off switch, which they no longer make. There are several interlocks so it can't be accidentally ignited.

So it's only about as effective as an unloaded musket when used as a weapon. Your target would have to be slow, stupid, and staring right at you for several seconds before they'd be in any danger.

Speaking of big military lasers, there's a 50kW shipboard unit that just underwent trials in the Pacific. Disintegrated an aircraft within seconds. In another 20 years, someone will figure out how to build one of those in their backyard, and what a polite society we'll have then!  ;D

Huh? I just got the laser on Monday and posted about it today. How is that old news?

What can you cut with a 1 watt blue laser?

Anything that burns or melts at a certain temperature, and doesn't have too reflective a surface. Darker colors tend to help, too. Forget soldering or any kind of metal, it will simply reflect the laser and won't heat.

Without the aid of optics, I can ignite print on paper almost instantly, whereas white paper takes a bit longer.

I bought some additional optics when I bought the laser, including a focusing lens. With that, there's focal point about 2" from the tip of the housing. Then you've really got some cutting power. The first thing I thought of when I used the focusing lens was woodburning, as you can go from angel-hair thin to 5mm wide just by getting closer to the workpiece.

I didn't get the first battery up to full charge until a few hours ago, so I've got more testing to do with it. For obvious reasons, I prefer to do it in a contained area when nobody's around so as not to cause harm with a stray beam, and not in my girlfriend's apartment so as not to become single with a stray beam.  ;D

I will try it out on some different materials and publish my findings here, though.

Correction: Class IV is any laser with a visible beam greater than 500mW.

This is fact.  Lasers have been used in combat by a two or more countries going back over two decades.  Nobody is eager to admit or talk about it, understandably.

I'd considered something more along the lines of a 60W infrared array with the appropriate lenses. short duration use due to heat removal requirements, battery-eating also, but with 60W it is not too important because the material to be burned will burn very quickly. 55A @ about 2V. I'm not sure it could be pocketable too easily but where there's a will there's a way. Supercapacitors in parellel with the battery maybe to increase the oomph for a second or so then recharge. I bring supercaps up because there is a military prototype truck using no batteries, only supercaps. It can be started with 20 D cells, they are drained into the supercap bank and then the diesel engine is cranked from that. I suppose it better start the first time. Oshkosh Propulse. Some states have laws regarding using a laser (as a weapon) that might be more restrictive than using a firearm. Aiming is an issue and at some point 1 watt may not be enough to neutralize a determined or insensitive target. So, how about a youtube video of this laser, It seems like a very interesting tool. How would soldering go, when googles have to be worn to prevent injury?

I still have to philosophically wonder about the 2nd Amendment and carrying a weapon for personal defense that could permanently blind a perp instead of putting a big fatal hole in him. It would certainly end a lot of criminal recidivism, Hard to stick up a 7-11 again if your retina is burned out. Even harder with a .44 mag hollow point through you.
Nevertheless, we need to think about this, all politics aside. It's worth pondering. Why outlaw the possession of a potentially instantly blinding laser but not a firearm?

Some of us only own our old school deterrents. LOL

(Sorry, moderators, I'll go hide now)

You can shoot down a jet liner with a class IV laser (blind the cockpit) from long range. I imagine a class IV device on a clear night would easily have an effective range of several miles (maybe less/more - I don't know about blue light and atmospheric attenuation) against unprotected night adapted eyes. Hard to do with a .44 mag. Imagine what a kid on a highway overpass could do (think about those idiots who were dropping chunks of concrete off of overpasses before you dismiss that).  My employer had to get FAA permission to  for testing what was essentially an eye safe laser out in the open.

They are like handguns, not evil of themselves, but humans can turn even simple tools to nefarious purposes.

I know of tankers who would use the non-eyesafe range finding laser if they thought they were being observed from somewhere they couldn't engage.  "Lasing" the target was nondestructive but would have caused eye damage, especially when viewed with optics.

Some more points to ponder:

As a defensive weapon, a laser wud take out only one eye at a time, thus the perp could shoot back using the good one. You wud have to be a great shot to hit the retina and be able to keep it on target for a specific period of time.  A two laser gun might be better for two eyes, though more dangerous for bystanders.  A perp could easily block it with his hand, sunglasses or any solid object.  

With a bullet, there is the chance of a wound, shooting in the leg to stop him - he may recover after medical treatment. With the laser, it's almost certain blindness, unless only one eye is hit.  

I think the general public is horrified about blinding anyone, even a perp - eyesight being a terrible sense to lose. They have been acclimated to bullets and bombs for centuries now and find it more "honorable" to use.  Blinding would border on germ warfare to some folks. It would be a tough thing to get it passed as a legal carry-type weapon, IMHO.  Even frickin stun guns are illegal in CT. There's guys on U-tube blasting themselves with them and laughing about it... ;D

T

 

Does it have any ham use and how efficient is it?

Maybe I can use one in the next VHF and up contest ;D

I suppose EME would be the holy grail. There are groups of amateurs who play at the various retroreflectors on the moon but the hobby is extremely costly.

What about 'line of sight' though, and what wavelengths are best 'bent' or reflected over the horizon. Instead of tropospheric scattering, a scattering by certain chemical compounts high in the atmosphere might work. Now we have a reason to save the ozone layer? A study of the reflective and absorptive qualities of the atmospheric compounds at various altitudes could be useful. The narrow bandwidth of the beam is an advantage and a disadvantage. Thermal stabilization of a diode laser is necessary to hold it on frequency.

In fact it is critical in professional diode pumped YAG and other solid state lasers due to the very narrow absorption bandwidth of the rod material. YAG absorbs at 808nm and the band is 1nm wide and the diode pump will drift through this band as it warms up if left uncontrolled. I only cite Nd:YAG because it is a common situation and I know little to nothing about the OP's laser except I am very envious.

Because 1nm and better accuracy is achievable in professional instruments, a receiver for weak signals might not be too demanding using a stablized laser as a LO. e.g. assuming a typical pump diode, 808nm is 371,030GHz, therefore a +1nm difference in the mixer represents a 460MHz I.F frequency. If the LO could be stabilized and PLL'd to some known offset from the received signal, the I.F. could be reasonable. But it is not my field, I only play with lasers and have never done any communications work with them. And I keep the beams out of the sky.

The 1 watt laser could be very useful for burning wood or plastic or other materials for art projects, equipment panels etc..either free hand or cnc controlled...

If you want one, better stock up now.  It will only take one nutjob like those dudes who went on the sniper spree in the DC area a few years ago, who might randomly aim at pedestrians, cops or aircraft, or specifically at public figures or people whose politics or ethnic origin they don't like.

I do say the things should be handled with the same respect as with a firearm or 3000 volt power supply.

With this much energy in ones hand, do you need to ware eye protection from the reflected energy while trying to set things on fire etc.?

I see these same people make the worlds most powerful flashlight that can cook eggs and set garbage on fire. That's more my speed as I'm addicted to new technology  flashlights. The drawback is that the batteries only last five minutes in the thing :'( :'( :'(  

I gave up on LED flashlights several years ago.  I bought 3 different ones, at a retail store, at a hamfest and at a non-radio flea market, and in each one the LEDs began to go out, one at a time, before the second set of batteries wore out.

I'll just stick with old fashioned incandescent bulbs.

You won't be able to get them next year, all flashlight must be converted over to CFL's

All joking aside Don, LED flashlights have come a long way.

Just don't buy a cheap one but those seem to work great to. The cheaper ones rely on multi leds where the more expensive, use  a single led and usually are brighter than the multi led types.

Yes.

They come with a pair of uber-orange tinted goggles. Spares are available for $25 or so. They've got three different color goggles for the three wavelengths they use the most.

The basic threshold for this thing is less than .25 seconds exposure to reflected energy within 200 meters without eye protection. In other words, don't look at the spot, period.

I did some testing with it yesterday. It cuts plastic-fiber ropes with ease. It doesn't do so well with the black plastic of crappy-brown-stuff, as that gets too reflective when it melts. I have yet to try it on a fiber rope, but I am hopeful because I have an antenna rope grown into a tree I'd like to shoot down (on an overcast day, of course).

The focusing lens makes it GREAT for cosmetic etching as KL7OF eluded to. I did some wood-burning with it yesterday, and the variable beam width from the lens lets you do all kinds of fountain-pen-like etches. It would work well in a CNC machine with a Z axis, but the beam is slightly elliptical so orientation matters.

You can't simply switch the beam on-and-off without modification, but I'm sure they'd build a unit with CNC in mind if there was demand enough. They do have some 500mW green lasers that can be switched on and off easily, and some people are using them for etching already.

Back in July.  http://www.dailytech.com/George+Lucas+Angry+About+Real+Life+Lightsaber+Threatens+to+Sue/article18964.htm

I guess he was threatening to sue then.

August article states he drops.
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/george_lucas_drops_wicked_lightsaber_lawsuit

Don't know if he changed his mind later though.

That thing sounds so cool I still want to see some video.. How about one of cutting the rope?
The coolest laser video I ever saw was making coffee. The instant was put in a cup and the laser beam was directed into the cup and boiled it in a  second.
A question for the wordsmiths here: 'LASER' is an acronym, the word 'laser' is a noun. Which is correct?

I will, I just want to make sure I have a camera with a CCD capable of handling the intensity of the reflected light. I don't want to cook an otherwise-perfectly-good CCD finding out it's not up to the task.

There's no shortage of online videos of this laser in action. It's the usual run-of-the-mill stuff: lighting matches, lighting joints cigarettes, popping a 20-foot-long row of balloons one by one, that sort of thing.


That only worked because the coffee was there. Lasers won't heat water. You can shine them on it all day long, some amount will reflect, the rest will simply pass through. It will heat the container (if the container is opaque) or impurities in the water (like instant coffee), either of which will get hot enough to boil the water, but will not heat the water itself.


Both. The acronym for Light And Stimulated Emissions of Radiation became common enough in everyday English that "laser" became accepted as a common noun.

Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation  It won't be so cool when someone's kid brings one to school for show and tell. They can't regulate this fast enough IMO.

Hmmm, $300 is about what a decent .22 rifle costs. I wonder what the killing range for chipmunks and squirrels is?  8)

hmmmmmmm.................. Now thats one hell of an idea!! We have a few stray cats in the hood. ;D  ;D


the killing range for a squirrel is about equal to the distance from the frying pan  ;D  ;D

Green light gets through the blue/ultraviolet filters.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/08/washington.plane.laser/

I've had kids point lasers at me and think it's fun. Then there was a case in Florida where a man was pointing a green laser at an aircraft and they somehow found him. He promptly blamed it on his teen age son. Way to go dad!!

Any filter capable of attenuating a laser of any color down to a non-blinding level would filter visible light to such an extent that the pilots wouldn't be able to see anymore.

People who shine lasers at aircraft are a problem, and need to be dealt with sternly. The laser itself is not the culprit, the person holding it is. Every state in the union has laws to deal with reckless endangerment, and these people need to be charged accordingly under those laws. Confiscation of the laser is a matter to be determined in a courtroom.

Some green lasers are used by stargazers as star pointers to point constellations or other heavenly bodies out to others. These are typically 250-500mW, so the beam itself is visible (both because it's bright and because it's green). I don't agree with this practice at all, but people do it.

The perpetrator in this case may have been star-pointing, but most people who would do so know better than to do it on the approach path to a runway, so odds are that this was malicious.

What's somewhat surprising is how frequently these people get caught. When the cops catch wind of someone shining lasers at incoming aircraft, they tend to respond pretty quickly before they have a disaster on their hands. Of course, someone stupid enough to do it once is usually stupid enough to sit there and keep doing it, and the pilots can tell the cops exactly where the beam is coming from (it is a laser, after all).

This is exactly the thing I worry about: someone doing something reckless with a laser gives them a bad name, so sentiments like "they can't regulate this fast enough" are fostered. There are already laws on the books against endangering the lives of an entire aircraft full of people. Outlawing them won't make them go away, they're too easy to build out of common parts now. Anti-laser regulation is only a feel-good maneuver that solves nothing.

A powerful laser is a powerful tool. People who mishandle them need to be treated in exactly the same way as people who mishandle a firearm or heavy machinery. Looking around my office, I can quickly count at least 15 things I could use to kill someone; but outlawing USB cables, coax jumpers, telephones, power supplies, laptop computers, body armor, ceramic tiles, dummy loads, and spectrum analyzers just to save a few lives would do way more harm than good.

Sorry I'm still not buying it. Thom you wrote "A powerful laser is a powerful tool"  I agree if used in a lab or some other controlled environment.  A hand held 1W laser has no legitimate purpose that I can think of. I love technology as much as the next guy but a laser like this is more dangerous than a squirt gun filled with battery acid and just as ridiculous.  Perhaps you're just "blinded" by the science. (sorry I couldn't help myself ;) )  Be well.

Phil

Therefore, it has no legitimate uses at all? Sorry, Phil, I'm not buying that, either, and the world doesn't work that way.

Let me make this perfectly clear (yet again): my laser is used in a controlled environment. I am a responsible adult and a responsible scientist. How does portability suddenly strip a unit of all legitimate purpose? If I strap my handheld laser to a piece of wood, does that suddenly render it safe?

The unit is a cutting laser. It is used as a cutting laser. That is a legitimate use. Making it handheld doesn't make it stop being a cutting laser, nor any less legitimate; it just adds to the flexibility, and number of situations where it can be used.

A 2 meter transceiver can easily desensitize aircraft and public service radios. That's every bit as dangerous. Should we ban all 2 meter handhelds because they're portable, too?


One could say the same of a 2 kV power supply. In this day and age, you can generate hi-power AM with software and a few transistors. High voltage is dangerous, so we should heavily regulate it immediately. Someone might get hurt. Not only that, but you might be tempted to use a PCB-filled capacitor, and we certainly can't encourage that kind of thinking! Besides, you don't need to do AM when SSB is so "spectrum conservative", so let's heavily regulate that, too. After all, there must be someone in the world who doesn't see a need for it.

If you think I'm blowing this out of proportion, think again. Once you start down the path of preemptive feel-good regulations for the sake of regulating something, the hypothetical scenarios I mentioned suddenly become much more likely.

Thom, I don't doubt that you are being responsible. My argument is not against you personally so please don't be offended by my comments, that's not my intent at all.
I realize that anything can be dangerous, hell a pencil can take out an eye but you wrote  "the spot from this laser is bright enough to cause permanent eye damage if viewed for more than a quarter-second within 200 meters without eye protection"  that's something to consider.  And why is it shaped like a light sabre? Why do you think it was manufactured that way? That shape certainly can't help with precision cutting. When I said it should be regulated, I should have said outlawed. Shipments of these things should not be allowed into the country, just like the lead paint toys and the tainted baby formula. I understand and agree with your "preemptive feel-good regulations" sentiment, but I don't think it applies here. What happens when Hong Kong starts exporting Mr. Fusion do it yourself nuclear reactors?, ok that was a joke.

Go get some popcorn. This is a serious old-buzzard transmission, even for me, but this is a good debate being had respectfully and in good faith by both parties, and how often does that happen?


I know you're not aiming at me personally, Phil. No offense taken. In return, I haven't been aiming personally at you.

If I do, protective orange eyewear is available online.  8)

Nevertheless, you have been somewhat implying that anyone who would purchase this unit could only be doing so for nefarious purposes, and much of your argument had been based on that premise. My point was that the premise itself is faulty, and I'm living proof of that.


Sure, but the exact same fact is true of an arc welder. Actually, arc welders are far brighter than that (and the same color), which is why welding goggles are so dark.

Yet, you can buy one at Sears, no training or license required, and there are no laws to stop you.

Should the same logic apply to arc welders as lasers? How about Tesla coils? They're both the same color as the laser, but brighter, and even capable of directly killing somebody, nevermind just causing eye damage.


Actually, I find it quite comfortable to operate. My free-hand work wasn't the best, but practice makes perfect.

One could argue that a Maglite is shaped like a light saber. It's cylindrical, rugged, machined, and emits light out of one end when activated. Remove the lens housing from a four-cell Maglite and tell me you don't have the urge to take a swing at Darth Vader. Okay, maybe that's just me.

While we're at it, the handle of a stick welder looks an awful lot like a light saber, too, but I've drawn some pretty nice beads with them.

How many times do you hear in the news of someone causing death or damage with a Maglite or an arc welder because it looked like a light saber to them?


Ah, so your real beef is the fact that it was made in Hong Kong! I had a suspicion that was part of this. Okay, let's discuss that:

I would argue that baby formula and lead-paint toys don't apply here, or are at least a bad analogy. Those were products specifically intended for children. In the case of the toys, children with or without adult supervision. They posed a direct health hazard to a vulnerable portion of the population.

These lasers are not marketed to children, cannot be purchased by children, and have been approved for import and use in this country. There are two completely separate interlocks, and the unit cannot be simply turned on even after the interlocks are closed. I can remove one of those insipid trigger locks from a handgun and fire it at someone faster than I can ignite this laser, and it takes twice that long to get it to full power once it's lit.

A kid might (okay, I'll even give you "will") think this thing looks incredibly cool. Hell, I'm pushing 40, and I think this thing looks incredibly cool (there, I said it). But unlike the hazardous products we just discussed, this doesn't become hazardous just by someone being attracted to it and getting a hold of it. A kid would have to know how to defeat the interlocks, then know how to ignite the laser, then know how to get it to steady-beam mode, then know how to get it to full power. You cannot go directly from "off" to "on".

By contrast, the baby formula and lead-paint toys only needed to go into a kid's mouth to cause death or injury. One product was intended for that sole purpose, and the other was just as likely to wind up in a kid's mouth as anywhere. I would argue that there's no comparison there.

Yet on top of all that, if someone owned this thing without keeping it locked somewhere kid proof, you'd have a pretty strong example of someone who doesn't deserve children, and I'd be all for rectifying that legally. Hell, I'd hold the door for the state worker.

If you do some research on the unit (which, with all due respect, I suspect you've only done some quick perusal on), you'll find that I'm not making this stuff up, and the manufacturers take safety very seriously. You should see the mountain of cautions-and-warnings paperwork that came with this thing.

On the Hong Kong angle, don't forget that their manufacturing and exports to the U.S. far predates their re-assimilation into mainland China. We were allied with Hong Kong while it was a British possession, and The Party knew not to mess with success when they got it back. If anything, China went more Hong Kong than Hong Kong went China. What is built in Hong Kong cannot really be compared to what is built in Shanghai.

If someone made a laser like this here, I'd buy it here. We don't make stuff here anymore. I'm not happy with that state of affairs either, but one must play the cards they're dealt. Personally, I have no problem with the idea of a 100% tariff on all Chinese imports as long as they're going to keep playing games with their currency; but that's a trade issue, and we'd have to devolve into a political discussion to address that. That's a discussion we're both better off having with our respective elected officials than each other.

Mr. Fusion? You betchyerass! If it cuts my utility costs down and shuts up the Green Police about my "carbon footprint", put two of 'em in every house, no matter who makes 'em!

Yes, you were joking; but again, I would be more concerned with the owner than I would with the existence of the device.

Your concerns are all valid. This device can be dangerous. Still, there are many common devices with far worse hazards, which we accept as a consequence of the technology. I do not feel there is any need to rush to a ban on something that has so many positive uses yet to be discovered by industrious enthusiasts. The risk of stifling potential innovation is just too high for me.

Okay, I'm done now. I don't know who's next in the rotation, or who's still here, but whoever gets it, gets it. Over!

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zorched Green Cornea

HERE WE GO AGAIN!!   ::)  ::)

Yeah, speak for yourself, white man!  ;)

Nah, cats will be fine. It's a blue laser, and cats' eyes are very good at reflecting blue light.

It's not like a Buck Rogers laser where you can just point the thing at a turkey, squeeze the trigger, and have it come out plucked, basted, and roasted to perfection with an abdomen full of truly yummy stuffing.

You might possibly exhaust one to death getting it to chase the spot, though. That's both a bug and a feature.

Thom,  I wish we could have this discussion on the radio, as I hate typing, but I'm hardly on lately. 

Just like my pencil analogy, the items that you mention, arc welders and mag lights have legitimate purposes, but can also be dangerous given the circumstances. I know I can't get you to admit but, the laser that you are defending has no REAL legitimate/industrial purpose. You say you cut things with it, really? why? Aren't there other more practical or accurate options for cutting things?  If it were truly made for cutting it would be mounted in a jig and the wicked blinding light would be contained within the cutting plane. It's not made that way. So what is it? It looks like a toy. Is it a toy? It certainly is not. Is it it a weapon? I say yep. You can cause damage from a distance with this thing. It's a weapon, similar to a firearm, not like an arc welder or a mag light at all. So do I have a problem with a foreign country shipping weapons disguised as toys to the USA? Yes I do! Thom, I'm going to bow out of this now. I'm getting hungry. I think I'll use use my 38 to turn some provolone into Swiss for a sandwich I'm making. If you were nearby you could cut it in two for me. ;) 

Phil

Dasss right! ! ! ! after about the 10th time you have to clean up your yard afta dem katz tore up yo garbage You start to feel that way. If you could off them without drawing any attention to yoself you might consider it a few times  ;D  ;D

I am still pissed off for not getting credit for inventing the cordless drill!! Years ago I used to use a .22 rifle to make 1/4" holes for wiring to go through. Unraveling 100' of extension cord to drill 1 or 2 holes was just too much of a P.I.T.A. back then.  ;D  ;D

So that is just the opposite, taking something that was designed to be a weapon and using it as a useful tool! !   ;D  ;D

Gee, I once drilled a hole for a pipe with a 44 Magnum, the cordless battery was dead. Kinda expensive ammo these days so I just use it to keep in practice at the range; the days of splattering chipmunks is long gone.

Continuing to repeat that doesn't make it any more true than the first time you said it. You have no legitimate purpose for it. I do.


There isn't a single cutting laser in the world that's made that way, Phil! Mounting the laser in a jig or a CNC machine is done by the owner of the machine, not the manufacturer. You buy the laser itself, then mount it in whatever apparatus you're using for the job.

Don't believe me? Look up industrial cutting lasers. You have an internet connection, use it.

You want a legitimate use? Ever try to cut down an antenna that's grown into a tree? This thing has already saved me the cost of hiring a tree crew or renting a bucket truck. Show me one device that can do a better job of cutting a rope from a distance. $100 to your favorite charity says you can't.


Again, this laser is not disguised as a toy! Nobody is marketing this to children, and children cannot purchase them! Your assertion is just plain wrong.


Geez, Phil... we were being so civil about this, and now you resort to ridicule. Too bad, because you just lost the debate as a result.

I thought the Swiss cheese comment was kinda funny. This story was on Fox today. http://video.foxnews.com/v/4406524/unidentified-light-in-virginia-skies/ (http://video.foxnews.com/v/4406524/unidentified-light-in-virginia-skies/) I bet anyone who has read this thread can solve this UFO mystery. Call FOX news and tell them what it is. I'm sure it was purchased by a responsible adult for a legitimate purpose! This guy lives three miles from Dulles airport.

Phil,

Hmmmm... you may have hit on something here.  Lasers in general - was it cloudy in VA that night? As you suggested, a laser might have been the culprit - relecting off the clouds like a movie screen.  In fact, is this the answer to the many sightings of UFO triangles and all that stuff?

Here's a post replying to the VA sighting:

"Awesome. I hope there is something going on. My boyfriend and I saw 5-7 orange triangles over SE Michigan a couple of months ago for about 10 minutes. They flew in different directions, stopped and even followed one another when they flew away...It was seriously amazing. We looked up other reports of them -- everywhere. The sightings are increasing. Who knows. Let's hope it isn't military, that's all!"


Someone could put together a complex laser jig with precision servo or stepper controls to do all kinds of UFO pranks. Even computer controlled rock concert laser gear could be modified.

Just like the crop circle guys who claimed to have faked it.

T

Hey, if causing mass panic isn't a legitimate use of anything, I don't know what is!

Laser devices that create vector-graphic animation are cheap and plentiful these days. It could easily have been something like that.

My friendly wager still stands, Phil: if you can find a device of equal or lesser value that will allow me to cut an antenna support rope in a tree from the ground I will donate $100 to the charity of your choice (moderators: that does not legally constitute a bet, the benefactor is a third party, so I won't get Gary in legal trouble).

You literally have thousands of witnesses to make sure I don't renege if you can pull it off.

As for the rest, we've both made our views clear, and we're clearly not going to change each others' minds about any of this, so I'll agree to differ.

--Thom
Kilowatt Amplifier One Zero Grid Current

That brings back memories...Laser Floyd at the Hayden Planetarium back in the '80s... good times! Think I'm going to dust off Dark Side of the Moon tonight. Then I'll just have to look out of the window and hope for some good citizens to start laser cutting stuff in their backyards.

Thom I'm glad we're done!!! 73 Phil

I enjoyed it, Phil. Seriously.

73, happy Veterans' Day, and enjoy the last few hours of the Marine Corps' birthday.

The dogs are doing it and blaming it on the cats. At least that's what happens here. A pack of dogs chases a cat up onto the garbage can and in the process turn it over and disperse the garbage. The cat is left trying to hide or escape and is found at the scene. There are 4 or 5 stray cats around here, two are rather large, and I have yet to see one turning over a huge garbage can or shredding a garbage bag. They will investigate garbage bags just like anything else, but they work alone and make little holes, whereas dogs make large holes and work in groups to disperse and sample the garbage. But who am I to argue with what happens at your place? Maybe you got some very large and determined cats around there.

One thing I have considered for repelling pests is a pulse from an SSY-1 Nd:YAG laser, but I can't get it to deliver much energy as it is. The Q-switch has not been removed. SAM's Laser FAQ http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm is very interesting reading for a variety of laser types and topics.

Interesting follow-up to this thread:

On the news today -   Commercial pilots have recently filed DOZENS of reports of high powered lasers being pointed at them while trafficking at Newark Airport.  Yikes.

T

Why do people do these things? I would like to get into their thinking pattern.

 " Why do people do these things? I would like to get into their thinking pattern. "


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kijrP-fEmyU&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANLgQG-VKyc

next question .... ..

klc

Well thanks, Now I'll be watching old Frank all night ;D ;D