The AM Forum

Looks like the temperatures are finally cooling down enough that I can resume my never-ending house painting project.

I started to work this morning, repairing some of the rotted wood before the primer is to be applied.  But after about an hour, I was chased away by red wasps that have apparently built nests inside the cavity between the siding and the interior wall. They began dive-bombing me and chased me off the ladder several times before I gave up. I think the only thing that saved me from stings was my loose-fitting  long sleeve T-shirt and my frizzy hair.  I can handle visible nests built under the overhang, but I don't even know where the nest is.  Probably multiple nests.

The last thing I need is to fall off a ladder trying to escape a swarm of the bastards.  That happened to me several years ago and resulted in a racked-up knee  that had me  laid up for a couple of months. This part of the house was built in about 1915, so there are plenty of cracks for wasps to enter and exit.

I wonder how professional painters deal with this situation, which must be a common problem, since probably every old house in this part of the country is similarly infested. I have asked a couple of local guys, but all they have ever worked on were modern, air-tight houses with vinyl siding, so the only painting they have ever done was exterior trim and interior, and they said they have never had any problem with wasps.

I don't want to JS spray-paint with the cheapest product available, over the wood as is, and then have to re-do it 3 years from now.  I am stripping off layers of old paint down to bare wood, oil priming it, and top coating with two coats of premium 100% acrylic latex paint. Not many people round here do it that way any more. Even so, I know the paint job won't last as long as the old-fashioned paint used to decades ago when all they had was oil-based lead paint.

Don,

Growing up in the south I remember a product that was known as "Florida Lineman's Spray".  It was (maybe is) an aerosol container that shoots the contents in a thin stream up to around 15 feet and brought down whatever it hit instantly.  My brother sent me a can of it back in the early 90's after I discovered a hornet nest while painting my 2 story barn and it was impressively effective.

When you get attacked on a ladder the indirect effects are generally far more damaging than the actual sting :(

My hunch is that professionals smoke them.   I know that when they have to deal with a bee hive that's inside a wall or some hard to get to place that's enclosed, they flood it with smoke until the bugs are dopey then they deal with them.   With bees they are trying to save and move the hive but wasps can be smoked the same way and they'd then remove enough siding to see what's up.   Or else they get decked out in one of those bee keeper getups with the baggy jump suit and big frame of netting over their heads and work at exposing the nests.   I have been stung by one of those type of wasps and you can't handle a bunch of them all at once with a stream of spray.   Another thing you can do is wait until the temperature is down around 40 degrees and then they'll be sluggish but that is a few months off.

Don,

In addition to what's alread been said,  have noticed that these little beasts become much more docile after sunset.  Think that it is not just the temps are lower,  but either their clocks shut them down after sunset,  or perhaps they cannot see well.

Found some in an old car which was seldom used, and at about 10 PM opened the door,  where they had built their nest,  and shot them with, the now banned,  Dursban.  They all died !  Whatta shame!

You might be able to drill a hole in the wall at night and vacuum them up ?  Or blast them with pesticide,  but,  just like the old and good paint,  the effective pesticides seem to have been banned,  and the replacements are totally ineffective.  might as well be food for the pests,  the new crap does not work at all.

73  GL  Vic

The squirt cans are effective on exposed nests.  These are inside the wall and I would have to tear up the siding to get to them, which I don't want to do.  And if I wait till it starts dropping to 40° at night, I won't have enough time left before cold weather to complete the job.

If it's not one thing, it's fifteen.

Up here they are not just in walls.  About two weeks ago I pissed off a nest of white faced hornets that had a nest in the ground while cutting the lawn.  All of a sudden I felt WHAM WHAM WHAM in my ankles.  I saw them and took off and the damn things actually hung on to one of  my socks until I was able to shake them off.  Ended up with at least three stings in one ankle and at least two on the other.  Hurt like hell for about a day.  Good thing I am not allergic to stings.

The worst part though was about 5 days later I  noticed that both ankles started to itch like I had poison ivy.  Both ankles had a huge bright red rash and had started to swell up.  Went to the doc and he confirmed it was a cellulitis skin infection from the stings.  Said it was quite common to get it from wasp stings, especially on the ankles.  Put me on a heavy dose of augmentin antibiotic.  Started to clear up after another few days.  Left untreated, cellulitis can go very bad very fast.

Lesson of the story - do more than just hose off an insect sting with cold water like I did.  Clean locations of stings with alcohol and apply some antibiotic cream over the stings to prevent possible infection.  Watch out for development of infection afterward.

Shop vac if you can find the entry way.  and it's small enough, jam a shop vac nozzel into the hole, leave it there for a bit (up to you). The noise/vibrations of the shop vac causes the bugs to go into defense mode, and they sortie out of the nest, where Mr. Shop Vac eats them up.  However. Do NOT open the shop vac for a bit afterwards...  Run water into the shop vac to kill off the trapped adults.   

Regardless of the method you chose to eliminate the adults, the nest and larvae left behind can cause rot in the wall.  You may want to pull out what you can afterwards.

Or smoke generator - or a CO2 extinguisher -- Then you can open the canister and kill them with the insecticide of your choice.  Probably be best to be wearing protective gear while doing this -- ya think? ;D  Water might mess up the filter in the shop vac.

If you can put this off until the first frost, doing this after a real cold night will have them already dopey (hopefully)

GL, Al

Bees suck. You might want to try to determine how many are in there. Go inside the house, shut it up tight, and bang on the wall to get them to start coming out then look out a window or whatever. If it's just a few flying around, no problem. If it's a lot of them, you may want to call a pro in to deal with them. You shouldn't really leave the nest itself in the wall.

Bunch of years ago, I was running a lineset (air cond) up the side of an older house and the impact screw driver stirred up a nest in the wall. At first there were just a couple which I didnt care about. THEN they started filing out in a black cloud that was was taking out the sun. Sure as sh!t, I got the hell out and told the cust he probably needs a pro to remove them. I was back there a few days later and they had a large hole cut in the wall and removed a nest 5 feet long. The cust was told they removed around 30,000 bees and 24lb's of nest. Made my skin crawl. The interior of the wall cavity was completely shot to hell with moisture from the hive.

Maybe a giant 811 would work.

That's the thing, the insects bring in food and materials, not to mention the normal biological processes. All this provides moisture and ingress for rot and fungus in the walls.  Even non-distructive ones like hornets or wasps, cause damage due to their day to day existance and operation in the wall space.
Best to get them out as soon as they are noticed.

Wow!  This must be the year for those nasty critters!  We had a problem earlier this summer with yellow jackets.  These little wasps look like bees, but are actually wasps.  They are usually annoying, but not real aggressive and don't sting unless cornered or trapped in clothing.  This year, for some reason, we noticed that they seemed smaller in size, but far more agressive. I eliminated a huge nest of them under the eaves of our garden barn by using that 15' spray can stuff, but then we found a place where they were getting into the house siding.  After soaking the entrance area with plenty of spray, I was able to block it off and they eventually all died or, at least stopped their activity in that area.  I managed to get stung once, but it was a minor hit.

There was a very unfortunate incident in our area a few years ago when an elderly gentleman was killed when he accidently opened up a huge nest of yellow jackets in the ground.  They swarmed on him and stung him hundreds of times and he died from shock.  The irony of it was that he was a beloved local figure who had been the director of our local zoo for many years before retiring.

At any rate, use caution when dealing with those little vermin.  They can pack a real wallop, especially in large numbers.

73,  Jack, W9GT

As much as you like to do things on your own (I can certainly understand), there comes a time when you need to call a professional. This is the time. Nests that are infested that deep into a home, need to be profesionally dealt with. After all, we are talking about your domicile. Its not a question of keeping up home value to use your houe as an ATM, it's a question of property and personal protection. This sounds like this has been going on for years, and if left or dealt with using JS sprays and smoke, you will never erraticate them.
I speak from experience. My home in upstate NY had an infestation of white hornets in the foundation. I tried to deal with them myself, only to be stung twice (which hurts lke HELL), and never gettng rid of them. 400 dollars and 4 hours of a pro's time, hornets gone. First thing I did when I moved to MD, called and protected my home from sub terrainian termites and ants. 500 dollars well spent and 10 years of piece of mind.
Ask your self a question..... Do you cut your own hair? No, call a pro.

Just my 2 pennies.

Mike

Over the years, I have had to battle those little bastards as well. especially when I used to do repairs to wooden boats some years back.

After getting nailed a few times you seem to develop a inate hatred for those little buggers. years ago, I found something that kills them faster than anything I have ever seen, and it's easy to get!!

CRC brand "Brakekleen" (or spelled something like that) in the RED can!
It kills them instantly!! You can even play anti aircraft gun and shoot them out of the air with that stuff!! they make 2 types of brakleen, one in a green can (flammable) and the original in the red can (non flammable). DO NOT USE THE STUFF IN THE GREEN CAN AS IT JUST PISSES THEM OFF WORSE! ! ! ! But the stuff in the red can is still as good as it ever was! I actually keep a couple of cans of it out in the garage just for that purpose!

If I'm gonna clean out a nasty brake drum, I use something soap and water based to keep down the dusty mess. If I'm gonna kill bees, I reach for the Brakleen!
It will give you the cleanest bees around  ;D  ;D And deadest!!

It runs in cycles, but it's time again. Those hornets that make the huge, gray, paper globe nests that look like a ghoul's head are back.

A few weeks ago I wasn't paying attention and opened the door of a storage trailer in the backyard. I just happened to look up and realized I had just torn in half a ~14" diameter hornet globe.  It was glued from the door to the frame.

I almost injured myself getting outa Dodge. The nest area became a mass of angry hornets looking for revenge for the next hour.  

Within a day or two it was repaired and I see the normal flights in and out as well as the body guards hanging at the entrance.  I left them alone and let them live, figuring the poor bastards have only one season and then die. True warriors, they are. What the heck.

It wud be a different story if they were attached to the house.


T

Wasps, hornetz, yellow jackets, etc are a troublesome pain in the ass. I will usually kill them just for the hell of it as they are an extreme nuisance, and will often come after you even if not provoked!!

However, the big black and yellow furry bumblehuzzies are kind of fun. they are docile and wont hurt you even if provoked. I like to catch them in my hand and play with them. The neighborhood kids get a kick out of watching me pet them. It is kinda interesting that they will actually ignore you if they find a big juicy flower and you reach over and tap them on the head. They are harmless. I dont know if it is true or not, but I've been told that they dont have stingers. But either way they wont hurt you.

Windex is effective at shooting down yellowjackets midair. It is good to saturate small to medium sized nests as well - wait until after dark when they all have returned to the nest and saturate it. I feel better using ammonia instead of the witches brew poisons, especially if it's in an area where humans or pets could be exposed to the poison residue/vapors.

If there is a nest in the ground I wait until after dark and stuff a rag down the entrance, saturate it with a good bit of kerosene, and light the wick. By the next day they are all smothered.

Now a surprise encounter with a nest when climbing a tower is a situation. Yellowjackets will pursue you as you try to retreat, like kamikazes. Don't ask me how I know!

Don, if you spend some time just watching the side of your house from a lounge chair you may be able to determine exactly where their entrance is, then deal with them at night. Maybe removing a few pieces of siding will be enough to get the nest.  

I've seen wasps circle a tower in large groups, climbing about a foot per second. I thought I had a nest at the top until I climbed and saw nothing. They were probably just looking for food, like caterpillars, etc. Quite common here.


However, I would hate to see a big gray globe hanging off the tower. How would you handle that if it was at 100'+ ?  ;D   Never seen one of those on the towers yet.


T

I had noticed some piles of fine dirt balls along the flagstone behind the house. I thought they were voles at first but watching at dusk I noticed a female cicada killer flying into one of the holes dragging a freshly sedated cicada. These things are big. I used mint oil around and down the hole.

After some investigation following their euthanasia I discovered that these guys rarely sting humans.

Felt bad but am allergic to all members of the order Hymenoptera.

Big suckers and look even bigger while flying.

Bumblebees are pretty docile. There are similar looking bees that can be aggressive, though.  I had a nest of them in a shed, and whenever I approached the building they would dive bomb and sting my face as they brushed by.  The sting was very mild compared to a wasp, but a sting no less.  I found the nest and doused it with kerosene and that seemed to get rid of them.

And then there are  carpenter bees.  They love pine wood, and can cause severe damage to  the framing of a building.  They tunnel corridors inside the wood to make their living quarters. This summer I found they would even attack treated lumber.

The wasps I am having the problem with are large red paper wasps that build a nest usually no more than 6"-8" in diameter.  They like to build under the overhang of the roof.  But if they can find a crack, they will build inside the wall, between the siding and the interior wall.  That's where I think mine are.  It is nearly impossible to avoid them or get rid of them, unless the building is hermetically sealed.  The walls in my house are mostly uninsulated, except for a couple of rooms where I have added insulation, so they have plenty of space to build.  Even if there is insulation, they will find a cavity somewhere.  When making repairs I have removed many old nests when I had a wall opened for some reason, but have never noticed any rot or fungus damage.  I think the house, which is 150 years old except for the addition that was built just before WW1, is too well ventilated for moisture buildup to be a problem.  Probably every older house in this part of the country has a similar problem.

I worked early this morning, and managed to keep them under control using a fly swatter.  Must have killed a dozen, but they don't seem to become too aggressive until about 10:30 AM when the heat of the day really begins.  Then it becomes too hazardous to even climb the ladder.  I may try directing bug spray into some of the cracks late in the afternoon and see what happens, but I suspect the nests are not in the immediate vicinity of the cracks where they enter the wall.

I'm not sure an exterminator could do much of anything without locating the nest, and then they would want to tear off siding or at least drill holes in the wall, which would ruin the cement fibre siding we had installed oven the addition a few years ago. That stuff is durable as long as you leave it alone, but is very brittle and tends to crack when you try to drill holes in it or drive nails into it. And the treatment would only be good for the season; no doubt more wasps would move in next year.  It would be impossible to seal all the small openings in the exterior without completely reconstructing the exterior walls.

BTW, I found that adding insulation to an old building is not always the best thing to do.  When I fixed up the shack after having it moved on premises, I completely replaced the wood siding on one of the walls.  While I had the wall open, I decided to install fibreglass batting between the studs.  It is a south wall and I thought maybe it would help with the cooling in summer, even though the rest of the building is uninsulated, except for ceiling insulation I laid over the loft floor.  Right away I started having problems with mildew on the wood siding that I had just installed, but only over where I had installed insulation. It wouldn't hold paint, and during warm rainy periods, I even found mushrooms growing on the wood.  Last summer I ended up replacing about 30% of  the wood siding on that wall because it was too rotten to paint or repair.  While I was at it, I pulled out all the insulation I had previously installed. Then stripped, filled, primed and repainted the entire wall. So far, no moisture problems.  Apparently the insulation cut off air circulation behind the wood siding and caused it to hold moisture and rot.

A couple of years ago I added wall insulation to a room in the main house.  That time, I installed house wrap between  the exterior siding and the insulation, and made sure there was a 1/4" or so gap between the siding and insulation.  So far, no visible moisture deterioration.

Back in the 70's, during the previous energy "crisis" there was a drive install insulation in everything. No doubt that has resulted in a lot of moisture problems when insulation was just crammed in walls without regard to proper ventilation.

Speaking of wasps or bees in the ground, ask Timtron to tell the story about the time I was up for a visit during the Germaine era, and ended up standing right over a nest, while a few other guests were present, particularly a couple from New York.
.

Dave,
        the cicada killers we get down here run around 2 1/2" long and are some mean nasty ugly mothers!! I grabbed one with a welding glove some years back to investigate it. It had a stinger about 3/8" long and hard as a piece of steel!! I wouldnt want that mother to get me!! We usually see them around here flying around outside lights when the evenings get cooler. Bee cleaner works well on them also!!

Don,
      thinking about it, I have always played with carpenter bees as well. Never got stung. But being they eat wood, I bet they could bite the hell out of you. Especially if you have ever heard them chewing through wood. I think the ones you are having problems with are called "mahogany wasps" and are known for being somewhat agressive.

And................... I bet Timtron with bees in his britches must have been one hell of a sight to behold!!  ;D  ;D

The bees were in MY britches.  But I'd bet the story would be more hilarious if Tim told it.

Hornets and wasps have been quite scarce around here this year. Its either been the weather or Ive killed off so many nests in the past. There hasnt been one nest attached to the house or garage which is a first. Also only saw carpenter bees the past 3 years, last was the worse and only zapped one with its ass sticking out of the wood this year; those suckers are hard to hit with the spray, about as agile as one of Pappys Corsairs :o

Last year the towers attracted scores of them all the way to 100-120' and its mostly in sunny weather, I believe its the radiated heat that attracts them as they arent From the stinging part of the nest and are looking for holes to build new nests.

Carl

This ought to be good! Timmy is a fantastic story teller, with his photographic memory, he usually goes to the Nth detail!! I still think he missed his calling in life. Next time I catch him on the air, I'll have to get him to tell it ;D ;D

I have several recordings of the famous "Tim and Tilly" story and I still crack up every time I hear it!! (I even have one told by his accomplice, Gary)

I get the brown paper wasps.  they build their nest around the deck on under various parts of the siding on the south side of the house.  It's warm so I don't blame them.  One thing I've learned about the brown paper wasp as they are dumb as a stump or just blind and I don't fear them and will remove them bear handed. They'll fly around then take off. 

Yellow jackets are a different story.  They don't screw around. Same with white face hornets. They're very defensive and aggressive.

Had a large yellow jacket nest that took up residency in what I think was a mole hole.  Was running the lawn mower near by and there was enough activity that I took as a warning.  Found the hole.  Waited until sunset and mixed up a nice brew of ammonia and clorox and covered the hole with a bucket.  Yellow jackets gone.

And,  for the children,  like me,  among us,  there is always the trigger spray bottle filled with denatured alcohol (or 70-90% isopropanol),  plus a ciragette llighter.  When it is SAFE,  this will take down any hymenopteran I've found.  Just light the 'pilot light' first, hold the lighter just below and an inch or so below nozzle end and pull the trigger.  Best when the spray is adjusted more toward the stream end of things.  What fun !
YMMV,  be careful,  do not do this at home  and so on ...   GL  Vic

Diverging even farther from the topic,

At the remote QTH there are a  number of different wasps.  The most unique,  to me,  is the Tarantula hawk.  These things are black with brilliant orange wings,  and by far the largest wasp I've ever seen.  About 2.5 inches long,  and seem to be just barely able to fly.  As one would expect,  they make a very low frequency BUZZing as they careen around looking for a T den:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantula_hawk

A great photo:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bugman123.com/Bugs/TarantulaHawk-large.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bugman123.com/Bugs/index.html&h=612&w=800&sz=128&tbnid=EmeXBbuK1jTp3M:&tbnh=109&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtarantula%2Bhawk&zoom=1&usg=__5d03qay5oxBkJhyvI9FJn17YiMk=&sa=X&ei=B4V1TL-nAYyksQOqqPigDQ&ved=0CCkQ9QEwAw

Vic

I read somewhere that the best way to get rid of carpenter bees is to hang a piece of fresh pine nearby, and drill several holes the same diameter as the ones they bore in the wood.  They claimed that the fresh pine would attract the bees and they wouldn't bother the house, and that if you can keep them out of your house, they are beneficial and you shouldn't kill them. They look like bumblebees but are much larger and not so bright yellow.

There is another kind of bee that I have seen sucking nectar around here for years, but don't know what it is.  It has the same yellow and black markings as a bumblebee, but it is long and slender, and hovers in the air like a humming bird as it goes from flower to flower.  I don't know if they sting or not, but have always left them alone.

I have not seen a single honey bee this whole summer.  Usually the flowers are buzzing with them.  My kids used to get stung going barefoot when they would step on a clover blossom that had a bee in it.

The current commercial "15ft spray" insecticide wasp killer cans are extremely effective. Scary so. Just wait until after dark, spray along their area. Tomorrow, dead. And for a long time to come they avoid the area. Dunno what it is doing to people, but I spray along the eaves once in the spring, done. All gone, all season. Maybe a second application, but not this year. Very few wasps at all.

Got tired of them getting into the place late in the season then crawling into bed with me and being pissed off, biting me. Grrrrr...

                        _-_-bear

You guys are starting to make me wonder why you all moved to the sticks.  I think I'll watch some reruns of Green Acres.   ;D

In this neck of the Whirl.......Philippines...I have seen very few bees,wasps, etc. I would think that the never-ending heat and humidity would encourage the dam things. But I guess there's so many other things messed here that the bees and wasps want to make people miserable elsewhere.
Fred

Rob:

Hilltop

5 acres

4 towers from 60 to 180', Im planning one more.

Fantastic take off angle on any band, 360* negative horizon.

Hundreds of acres behind be for the Beverages and a friendly land owner.

Room to do whatever I want without nosy neighbors running to the town.

PRIVACY

Carl

Had a very similar situation here 4 years ago. Solution was to pour about 10 ounces of gasoline down the hole, tape a newspaper page to a 12' length of element tubing, apply lighter and place over hole from safe distance. End result the same, only thing missing was the marshmallows and the Lostprophets

Carl

The Americas are probably the most inhospitable land on earth for humans, since it was so recently inhabited relative to Africa, Asia and Europe, possibly only after the ice path appeared when the Bering Strait froze over during the most recent ice age. So, included in our incredibly rich biological  diversity, we have such jewels as poison ivy, unknown in the rest of the world, that humans uniquely never evolved to cope with. Not to mention other natural phenomena, like tornadoes, that are rare in parts of the world outside North America.

From what I've heard the Australian outback isn't any country club either.  Plenty of nasties there.   :o

Probably for the same  reason.  That's also why their mammals look so weird.  Cut off from the rest of the world for aeons.

Id think that North America is extremely hospitable, just ask all the illegals ;D

Seriously tho our lower 48 plus Alaska and Canada has almost none of the native diseases, toxic flora, or venomous wild life associated with the tropics of NA, SA, and Africa. HIV and Ebola are native to Africa.  Our native problems are well known and generally avoidable. BTW Im not allergic to poison ivy, sumac or oak.

OTOH Australia leads the world in unfriendly fauna and flora.

I wish someone would develop a force field to cover from FL to CA to keep all the garbage out ;D ::)  Beam me up Scotty

I think the gov't ought to sponsor research to develop a fungus (maybe a genetically modified version of the one that wiped out the American Chesnut or maybe the Dutch Elm disease organism) that would attack poison ivy and poison oak and render those plants extinct and wipe them off the face of the earth, but that would be harmless to other plants.  Monsanto has developed genetically modified grains that are unaffected by Round-up, so that crops can be sprayed with weed killer, so such a project might be feasible.

That would be a much more useful and productive way to spend tax money than what they now waste each year trying to eradicate cannabis plants.

Total eradication of poison ivy should be a major public health issue.  85% of the population is allergic to it, and it costs over a billion dollars a year in medical treatment and  lost work time, not to mention the misery it causes. The toxin is really nasty stuff. It is practically non-biodegradable; vines and leaves that have been dead for decades will still produce a rash.  It has been estimated that only a few ounces of pure urushiol (the toxic oil in the plant) would be enough to produce a rash in every human on earth.  Humans are the only living creatures known to be sensitive to it, and it is native only to N. America. If you are allergic, you don't have to even come in contact with it. A dog or cat may brush up against a plant, and then leave the oil on humans.  Tools and shoes are a common source of contamination.

It is probably the most common weed that grows here.  Practically every square inch of unattended soil has poison ivy growing in it.  I noticed this summer on Cape Cod that it is everywhere up there too. You would have to wear a hazmat suit every time you step outside to make it through an entire summer here without at least one bout with the stuff.

Yeah ok. The government never screws up any projects. ::)

If they want to help, maybe they can print up a flyer to show the sheltered and helpless what bees and poison ivy look like.

I think most people already know what poison ivy looks like. It's practically impossible to avoid it if you spend much time outdoors in a place that is infested with it like we are here.  The quality of life on the entire N American continent would be much improved if it were eradicated to extinction, and I believe that with present-day biotechnology that is well within the realm of possibility if someone were willing to do the research.  I would welcome that from anyone - Monsanto, the government, BP, Osama Bin Laden or the devil if any one of them were able and willing to produce it.

The forced extinction of poison ivy should become a public health and safety issue,  like the polio vaccine, smallpox eradication and traffic law enforcement.

I have often felt the same way about the MOSQUITO.  No other insect has really irritated me to the point of Speciecide.

I was amazed to learn that cows EAT posion Ivy with no ill effects (how about the milk?? :o ) I wonder what purpose was served during the evolution of the plant that made it have that chemical in it's makeup?

We haven't had much luck eradicating bad things (KUDZU vine, Killer Bees, Formosan Termites)  Good things seem a lot easier to kill off for some reason.  It seems that the harder we try to kill something the more we affect something else. 

Actually, mosquitoes are said to be beneficial in the food chain despite their peskiness.  Wasps are beneficial too, in that they kill of other harmful insect pests and (maybe) ticks.

I don't think there is anything beneficial about poison ivy.  Birds eat the seeds and berries, but there are plenty of other plant species for them to munch on if poison ivy were to disappear.

I once read somewhere that there is no known evolutionary reason for the toxic oil.  Perhaps it serves to repair physical injuries to the plant.  The toxicity serves no known useful purpose to benefit the plant, since it only affects humans, and the effect is delayed. It just happened to get its start and evolve in a region on the planet where humans didn't appear until much later.

The same oil, in less potent form, is found in mangoes and cashew shells, and some exotic plant found in Japan.  Some people who are extremely allergic to poison ivy have a reaction to mangoes and cashews as well.

I appear to not be allergic to Poison Ivy.
Howerver I am allergic to fish.

Not a good trade off.

                  _-_-

When I was a JN, I got poison ivy so bad that I looked like a monster at times. The doctor then gave me a series of three shots in the springtime that gave me an immunity - just had minor bouts after that.  He claimed it was the ivy extract that was injected under the skin. It strange, but after he died, no other doctor or even skin doc knew what he used. One said it didn't exist.

The shots stung like all hell. Maybe it was a placebo, but it worked for me and haven't had ivy for years unless I actually rub it on aggressively. Before the shots, I would get it big-time off the pets or even without walking thru it... ;D

T

I had a friend that was terribly allergic to it when we were kids.

I remember the first day back to school in the 9th grade, he came in totally bandaged up and looked just like a mummy with just his eyes and mouth exposed.
I axed him "what the hell happened to you??" Expecting to hear some kind of horrific burn story, he told me that he had poison ivy over his entire body. He prolly should not have even been there, but his parents were so proud of his perfect attendance record for the previous few years.

come to find out that they had burned all of the vegetation off of a field near his house and it was full of poison ivy. The breeze had carried the oils from it in the smoke and got him good. He was a mess for quite a while to come. This was over 40 years ago and they didnt have the good steroids yet they have now.

I would not have wanted to be in his shoes!! Thank God, I have never been allergic to or caught that stuff, and I even crashed a motorcycle into a patch of it when I was a kid and never got it!!

I have been one of the fortunate ones who is not allergic to poison ivy, however, I am apparently allergic to poison oak.  Although I never really had a bad reaction or outbreak from that stuff, it does cause some irritation.

What might be a concern to some of us entering our "old buzzard" years is that some people become allergic to things later in life that never bothered them before.  It apparently is not unusual to develop allegeries that never previously existed.  I hope I don't develop such an allergy...poison ivy  is all over around here.  It is very common and quite prolific on our property and the woods that are behind us.

I recall hearing about a magic cure for poison ivy that was used by linemen and cable guys working for the telephone company.  I don't remember the name of it, but apparently, it was something that you had to ask the pharmacist for....maybe not commonly available over the counter?

73,  Jack, W9GT

According to Ewell Gibbons (remember him?)  the native Americans would develop an immunity to poison ivy by eating one of the tiny leaves of the poison ivy as soon as they emerged in the spring, and successively eating larger leaves every couple days over time as they grew bigger.

I DO NOT want to try this.

Round-Up works great on PI for killing it

I have also heard that various tribes would burn large quantities of the stuff, up wind of a village they were planning on making a raid on. A precursor to Tear Gas, but more like Mustard gas or some other blister agent.

Pretty nasty, I can't imagine what that would do to the INSIDE of your lungs.

I found that happened to me! I'm still not allergic to poison ivy, but I have developed an allergy to Deet, or any of the bug repellent compounds containing it. It gives me a nasty rash that resembles leprosy!! And it takes months and months to go away. (and leaves scars too) Also, never before, but now some fabric softeners give me friggin hives!!
It sucks to get old!!  But.................. Old beats the hell out of being dead!!

Unfortunately pets cant read the books and roll in the PI and bring the oil into the house. My oldest son is allergic and we would have to get him treated every year thanks to the dog and cat.

When I moved here the property had ben unattended for decades, just some hippie renters that did nothing. There were huge vines climbing stone walls, the fruit trees and oaks, they dont like pine, and generally popping up over about half the 5 acres. The first year I rented a gas engine sprayer and got a gallon of the pure RoundUp from another ham who was the head groundskeeper at a country club down in MA. This stuff wasnt sold to the public, a little went a long way. I sprayed adjoining properties and along the road where the animals also strolled. Neighbors didnt mind, there were only 2 in the area then. After that it was a pump sprayer and regular patrols. Now I might find a tiny outbreak every other year and the other vacant properties have been developed.

With that #1 son and his family living here until they can find a house (came from H-D in Milwaukee) Ive been extra vigilant.

Somehow I get the feeling that Don doesnt like PI ;D

Carl

Birds are the primary spreaders of poison ivy.  They eat the berries but don't digest the seeds.  When they shit them out, the seed hits the ground intact, with along with an adequate supply of fertiliser to help it establish.

When I was a kid the doctor gave me those shots, too. I remember the medication in a green package, and IIRC, the  liquid was also green. They seemed somewhat but not totally effective, but a few years later they were discontinued.  No-one seemed to know why at the time, but I recently found an article on a website that claimed the medication in those shots did some kind of chromosome damage, so they were taken off the market.

Wonderful... :o  No wonder the docs knew nothing about it years later.  I've been known to turn into a super-hero like "The Thing" of the FF.   I'm also a teen idol, so maybe it's not so bad.

T

HMMM green liquid. Do you pop out of your shirt and put on a mean face when you go into super hero mode.

Dave said:
Ewell Gibbons, died exactly 2 blocks from my house. My dad was good friends with him. He passed away due to cirrhosis of the liver. He was a big time drunk!

(.....At night I'm a junk food junky, good Lord have pity on me...... [my apologies to Ray Stevens])

I never had ivy poison until this year.   I was sharpening and fixing up an old antique pair of manual hedge shears.   I had put some oil on it.  After chopping off some wild bushes and some low plants with them I noticed some of the oil had run down on my arm.   About a day later, I had severe poison ivy at the same spot on my arm.  Every other part of my body that my arm touched also got infected.  They usually use predisone now to help heal it.  I must have chopped some poison ivy with the shears.

Being an oil, poison ivy extract can be cleaned off easily using dish detergent and warm water. Soap up those  exposed legs and arms good. (not automatic dishwasher but standard liquid hand dish detergent)

Whenever I come in from any lawn work, etc, I do the once over with it. The grease-cutting formula is recommended by Betty Croaker, so it must be good.

T

We have Cicada Killer Wasps out in back at work and some of us have to walk by them to get to our cars. These are big. They seem to be active about 1 week before you hear the cicadas and they disappear shortly after the cicada season is over. They have a patrolling behavior and generally stay in groups of two about 3 feet off the deck flying in rectangular patterns. Fascinating to watch them. They will investigate everything that comes within range of their territory and seem to recognize people after a couple of days and they pay less attention. Nobody has been stung - everybody has been checked out.

Somebody else said the same thing about using dishsoap to get it off. He says he has used Dawn, but not to scrub it in too much. Just lather up and leave it on till it dries, then wash it off and do it again. He also mentioned that it was important to do it asap right after contact.

I wash my work clothes in Dawn because its the only thing that gets the fuel oil and grime out.

73, J

We've had a lot of bees here too this summer we had a new roof put on the house but before the new roof was put on all the tires that were on the old roof to keep it from rattling had to be removed. The 2 guys doing the work would be up there taking these tires down and they had bees coming out all over the place. the one guy had a can of bee spray and was trying to blast a bee out of the sky that was following him and while he was doing that he was also trying to run backwards on the roof. we have a couple honey bee hives here that a local guy put there. any other person i see work with honey bees usually has the hat with the mesh face net and has a beesuit or at least has longsleeved shirts with the ends of the sleeves tucked in gloves, the bottom of the shirt tucked in their pants and their pants tied around their boots.Not this guy he walks right up to the hives with bees swarming everywhere, smokes them, and the only thing he wears is a pair of pants and boots, no shirt at all.

I have been able to work on the painting job by getting up at the crack of dawn and working until about 10:30 AM.  They don't seem to be sluggish and not all that aggressive in the morning.  But my mid-day it is impossible to work without them swarming at you.  I caulked up some of the cracks they were using to enter into the cavities in the wall and that has greatly reduced their presence.

I had PI one year after doing a clean up in my parents back yard one summer.  Didn't know I was up to my knees in PI.  Wearing shorts and a tee shirt ripping stuff out with bare hands.  Wiping sweat off in various places, scratching too. Using the bathroom.  You get the idea.  Covered head to toe and many places in between. I was a cooked lobster 3 days later.  I couldn't take it. I wouldn't wish it on an enemy.  Broke down and went to  the dermatologist.  One shot and one day later, instant relief but still red.  2 days more then 50% clearing.  5 days no sign of exposure.  Doc tells me it was a steroid.  What variety don't know.  

Any potential exposure I go for the GoJo hand cleaner and dish soap.  Gojo first. Wipe off Gojo with paper towel.  Soap second to wash remaining Gojo off. End up squeaky clean and PI free.

If you find you have PI after a few days of exposure a good soaking in sea water will help heal under light or medium cases.

Gee, gets it on his wee wee, gets a steriod shot and is now auditioning as Johnny Wadd Jr ;D

One Saturday night when I was 15 a friend and I each finished off a six pack of Colt 45 in the woods.  We had planned to go to a graduation party but never made it. I passed out in a poison ivy patch and slept there until 3AM and then walked home. Within a day I was swollen up like a tick. I didn't have any Calamine lotion so my father mixed up a batch of flour and vinegar. I smeared this on my face and body. It dried to a hard plaster-of-Paris. I looked and felt like a walking cast. My schlong was covered too and it was like a white brick.

My brother drove me to the hospital the next day in his '66 GTO and opened it up in town for fun. He had loud Thrush mufflers and made quite a racket. We got stopped a cop. He was about to write out a ticket when I got out of the car and told him it was an emergency and we needed to get to the hospital. He looked at my face covered in white flour crust and freaked. He let us continue on, even though the hospital was in the other direction... ;D  June, 1968

T

@&##$% white faced hornets nailed me again today - this time cutting the lawn at home.  I had just brushed under a overhanging branch of a big Japanese threadleaf maple in our side yard and then WHAM!  Felt like I had taken a shot in the back of my head with a nail gun! I know what a nail gun hit feels like (at least to a fingertip).  Got me right through my Red Sox cap  (must have been a Yankee fan ).  I got the hell out of Dodge in a flash and then after the pain went down somewhat, went back to investigate.  I was extremely lucky.  Since last week, the hornets had built a nest in the Japanese maple the size of a football that was swarming with 'em.

I have to be very careful around that spot in the yard.  It seems like the hornets build a big nest this time of year in either the maple or a nearby crab apple within about a 10 foot radius. 

Diane went out after dark and hosed the nest down with Spectracide, going to dump in another can in a little while.  Hope we  get them all - this is the biggest nest I have ever seen them build in the 31 odd years we have been living here..

Just wait until after dark when they go dormant at night.  Set the thing on fire.  Remember, it is made out of paper.  You don't even need any kerosene or lighter fluid; a cigarette lighter will do if you can reach the nest.  If it is too high in the tree, wrap some  rags  round the end of a pole, light it and hold it up under the nest.  The fire will destroy the nest and the hornets inside. I used a burning rag attached to the end of a bamboo fishing pole once.

If they are well away from anywhere people will normally venture on the property, I just  leave them alone.  But I get rid of them when they get too close for comfort. Hornet nests are rare here; I think I have seen a grand total of two since I moved back here in 1979.

Get a heavy duty flame job if you are going to burn them out!

I went to an OT's house one time to do some work.  He distinctly told me NOT to use the front door because it would set off his security system.  Ok Fine.  WHen I got there (via the back door) I asked about his security system (since he lived in a 200+ hr old farm house that didn't look like it would need security).  We walked out front when he showed me a BIG wasp nest attached to the Door frame and the adjoining overgrown bush.   I would guess he didn't get many door to door guys or Jehovas visiting him, well at least no often.

There are commercial wasp traps available, but I like this homebrew one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7KkBySHWKM

Here's one of the Home Depot one with pheromone attractant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5pGY0rgvv0&NR=1

Not quite as immediate and satisfying as nailing them with brake cleaner, but you won't have to tear your siding off, either.

I am very sensitive to yellow jacket stings, more so over the years. Last summer one nailed me on a finger knuckle, my whole hand swelled up like a baseball glove a day later.

The use of many short-cut abbreviations on this forum that I don't understand is annoying. Is there any listing of them with their meanings that I can review?

In this thread 'PI' was used several times, once as 'PI patch'. What in heck is 'PI"?

Also, what is 'YMMI'?

Walt

   Walt,

    This thread swung from wasps to poison ivy and back again...
    Therefore I assume "PI" =  poison ivy.

    As for "YMMI" it's not in my vocabulary. What context was it
    used in?  I don't recall seeing it...

    Too much texting crap here; spell it out!   

I think YMMI was a typo and should have been YMMV  "Your Milage May Vary"  usually meaning "you can try what I did but it may not work the same for you".

I'd rather see whole words myself. Cute abbreviations just obfuscate meaning if everyone isn't in on them. We also have a lot of non-native english speakers who monitor the board, who I'm sure don't find the cute abbreviations all that entertaining.

Poison Ivy? Where? Ill rip that crap out by the roots. Ive only gotten it twice in my life, both times just one little blister between my fingers and then my toes. Never had it since, even though Ive contacted it numerous times. Must have been all the work logging and at the mill made me immune to it.

Ive had a run-in with one weed that was worse though, and that was stinging nettle. Woe to the person who runs along the creek bank in shorts looking for a fishing hole. Bad, bad stuff. The kind of stuff you could torture someone with.

I would take a solid acre of stinging nettles any day over one poison ivy vine.

The nettle sting is almost immediate, and although intense, it goes away after about a half hour.  Poison ivy is sneaky.  You may not have any sign of rash for days after coming into contact, but when it finally breaks out, it keeps you in misery anywhere from 10 days to 2 weeks.

I read somewhere  that a severe case of poison ivy may cause permanent damage to internal organs as well as producing the debilitating rash.

An archaeologist reportedly opened an Indian burial site and  came into contact with some centuries old dried up poison ivy that was interred along with the deceased, and it still gave him a rash. It really is evil, nasty stuff.

I have never encountered stinging nettles anywhere in North America, but I became familiar with it in Europe.  Whereabouts is it found over here?

An interesting thing about stinging nettles is that you can caress a sprig of the plant in the direction from the roots to the top, and it will have ill no effect.  But even slightly brushing against it from top down will result in a sting.  

I had volunteered on a field trip with my daughters school. We'd gone to sturbridge village (an 19th century historical site).  Along the trip, we found some stinging nettles near a sheeps pen. (well the kids found it).  They were uncomfortable for about 20 minutes with slight redness. (much complaining). Then they were fine. 
It was in the only clump of grass not eaten by the sheep.   I had thought it was just an odd thistle, until the kids got in touch with it.

Ive run across stinging nettle in many places here in the Ozarks, always along a creek or river. Maybe Im giving it an incorrect name, but there was a bulletin board at a camp site I read a long time ago that called it that, so thats what Ive been calling it all along. Closest to describing is imagine you worked up a good sweat and then you took some of that white powdery dry acid that forms over your battery connectors on a car or truck. Now rub that in and maybe that would be half as bad. But the nettle also itches and when you start scratching, the burn intensifies. If you happen to contact this stuff the only relief is jumping in the water and washing it off.

Interesting note on the handling of the plant.

 While we are on the subject of plants, there is one that I could never find a name for , but it has a bunch of little leaves in a row in each stem like a fern. And you can touch the leaves and they will "close up" .

Doug said:
Isn't that a vermosa bush?

The Venus Fly Trap does that too.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/VFT_ne1.JPG/220px-VFT_ne1.JPG)

The "sensitive plant" does that as do some other related mimosa and acacias.

Mimosa pudica... cool video shows the action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3UuHlPLQU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3UuHlPLQU)

73, John

                                                                               .

Yeah, that looks like it. The wild ones aorund here have thinner leaves, but they do the same thing.

Wrong Killer Bee!

We use pyrethrin

http://www.bugspray.com/article/wasp.html

The key is to spray the nest if you can find it when its small.  I had half a dozen nests this year. Mostly small.  couple sprays, They cant fly anymore. That stuff is an oil base and it weighs them down.


C

That stuff wouldn't be good to use while prepping for a paint job. You don't want to leave any kind of oily residue on wood or any other surface that is about to be painted.  Same goes for fighting them with WD-40.

If you use the red can Brakelean, it leaves absolutely no residue!!

The solvent in it that is is so deadly to them is a "defatting agent"
Hmmmm............... Maybe I should spray some on my mid section  ;D  ;D