The AM Forum

Why you ask?

Because it shows you things you dont want to see.

I have been listening around the bands a lot since getting it (new toy thing) and never noticed (before) how poor
many signals and operating practices are.

People 4 or 5 Kc off frequency, people MORE than 20 Khz wide, and some poor operating considerations.

While tuning around, I heard someone on ssb calling CQ on sideband, on 80 meters at nite, something I never heard in prime time before. I responded and worked a guy who was just out of the hospital after 6 months, a WW2 vet, who got captured in the battle of the bulge and was a POW.
He did not know 3885 was in the AM window, and while I was trying to find an open spot, some wonderful AM  operator was testing and generaly trying to run off the SSB scum. Nice.

I found an open spot down the band and we had a nice qso.

I have also noticed a number of signals that sound very poor, not the old stock rig sound (cheap phone), but lots of distortion and sounding like they had their hand over their mouth muffled.
Do these guys know it sounds so bad?


Is it so hard to zero beat, or buy an old freq counter, or limit the bandwidth a bit, or check out how wide the signal is?

Brett

Any 60's SSB rig or even a stock 75A4 will tell you the same thing.

And you wonder why I rarely go on 75, it is not much better than CB on either mode and hasnt been for decades.
Then you have the AM jerks telling each other how great their signals are.

Carl
KM1H

I have the same problem using the sync detector, with stations operating off frequency.  The PLL will follow frequency drift and frequency shift to a certain degree, and will seek out stations off frequency, but it sometimes takes a second or so to lock in if the carrier comes up a kc or more off frequency. The pissweakers who transmit for a half second, off frequency, trying to break in get lost in the shuffle. But some stations operate crystal control and the carrier frequency may be several hundred cycles off the nominal frequency, so off-frequency operation is not necessarily due to poor operating.

OTOH, I frequently run into stations using VFO control, and the operator has no clue how to zero beat a signal or even what the term means.  This not only includes those using transceivers; it sometimes happens with "vintage" stations using separate transmitter and receiver.

When there is no carrier for the sync detector to lock onto in AM mode, the BFO kind of wanders aimlessly about the frequency and SSB is usually unreadable.

Don, did you mod your Sherwood for AM roundtable for faster lock?  I agree, it's pretty irritating when using the stink detector to have everyone off freq.  But that's my problem, I guess, not theirs.

I'll give guys a poke if they're way off frequency.  But let's face it, many are using classic rigs that drift a bit.  You zero in to a QSO when you first turn on the rig and before you know it the VFO has wandered up the band a few KC.    So for those that are running older rigs it behooves you to check zero beat with the QSO every once in a while.

Of course sometimes zero-beating the QSO is pretty hard - sometimes you have a group of guys ranging from -2 to +2 KC.  No wonder we get some guff from the slopbuckets for being "wide".

I have *never* seen anyone 20 KC wide at any unreasonable level, Brett, and I regularly look at the band with a spec an.  Or I used to when I lived in the States.   Anyway you're going to see a rolloff and spectrogram displays like the flex will allow you to see very low level components of a fairly strong signal.  Just because you can see it on the flex doesn't mean there's a problem, or that it's causing interference.  If someone has a 40 over 9 carrier and you see audio components on the Flex out to S-3 +/-10 KC, that's more than reasonable. 

 

    A good spectrum display would be a real eye opener for much of the amateur community.  The SSB operators could get a better picture of just how much bandwidth they actually occupy . There are quite a few SDR offerings at lower cost . The spectrum display is very useful indeed and they are a great aid at helping one another to improve performance and operating practices. Most operators welcome a friendly heads up and are eager to remedy a problem.
  On the other hand they may tend to reveal some folk's elitist attitudes.
Folks "too good" to operate on a given band or folks who consider AM windows a "Ghetto" in the derrogatory sense.  You csn hear hams calling hams "jerks" on any band.Resorting to name calling acheives little good .
  Met some very fine folks on 75 AM very happy to know them. Tolerant, helpful hams who work together at keeping their stations up or just being there as a good friend.  

Good points regarding the synch detector, John.  Certain issues "come with the territory" .
  



  

  

    

I think the flex spectrum display is valid, plus I can hear the guys signal over 10Kc up and down the band.
Many signals are strong, clean and quite narrow, and sound great, there are plenty of those.

I do see a lot of wide ssb signals, with lots of output on the other sideband, and others that are very clean.

When running vintage gear, I check the frequency often, besides zero beating, I have a cheap freq counter that picks up my RF using a wire in the shack.
I dont have a problem with 1kc or less, that is reasonable, but 5 Kc!?

The flex sync detector locks up quite fast, and will go quite far off freq quickly without problems, that is not really an issue for me, but its just poor practice to have people on 3873, 3880, and 3882 all in a qso...
The sync detector is also interesting when someones VFO is jumping around, which is not unusual on the vintage gear, some just jump 500 hz one way, then back, then jump 200 hz down, etc...very crazy to listen to....


I also think people have attitude problems with other modes, with modern ssb stuff, you can get quite close to (a clean) AM qso without problems, but the AM guys, maybe with old poor receivers, hear the ssb guys quite well and assume they are doing it on purpose and get all worked up.
The ssb guys gripe about the real wide AM signals, which is valid when people are all over the band in a qso and over 20 KHz wide.

In the daytime when bands are empty, there is no problem or issue, but at nite, when the band gets packed, its surely going to turn people off to see such poor inconsiderate operation, which in the old days would get you put down as a lid.
With the new stuff on the market, many people can now see just how screwed up someones signal or operation is...

Brett

 An AM roundtable with a few ops all thinking plus or minus 1 or 2 KC is OK can indeed take up a lot of bandwidth needlessly. It gives the adjacent operators a just impression that the operation is wide. The collective effect is the same as if one individual is too wide.Happens on any band , anywhere in that band. We use freq counters and check the other operators by zero beating when using vintage gear alone. The calibration on the GPR-90s here is close enough to spot an operator in our QSO that is off freq and we always give them a nudge to bring them back to the desired freq.  I have used an SDR and intend to incorporate one as a monitor receiver. It will be remotely operated from my sister's QTH about 1 mile from my own QTH.
 

I really enjoy my "poor man's version" of an SDR with the SoftRock Lite and Flex software. It really cleans up a normally noisy signal from MaNature. The variable BW and noise fiters are very handy. It makes a station fighting through the Aether (?) seem like he is in the same room with me. And it's a good test instrument for aligning a receiver's I.F. stages.
My dream would be to own a cared for used FLEX 5000(?) or I would splurge and get the latest, one day as the ultimate radio. My Titan 425 maul linear and I would be set for any mode. A.M. on flex is awesome.
That would be nice for our possible move and retirement to the Philippines. I think I would still want to keep my TS440's. And definitely my R390A as something that can be touched that was made in the USA.

Fred

The later version of the Sherwood sync detector has a fast lock "AR" mode specifically designed for amateur AM reception.  Previous editions were primarily aimed at the SWL community, with a very slow lock that is entirely satisfactory for SWBC stations.  I'm not sure if Sherwood offers an upgrade kit, but they will at least provide exact instructions on how to add the "AR" feature to an older model unit.

When several stations in a roundtable are substantially off frequency, using the AR mode the PLL quickly pulls the BFO into lock, but there is a 1/2 to 1 second "ping" as you hear the heterodyne while the BFO is sliding to frequency.  That usually makes it impossible to read "breakers" who did not bother to zero-beat the last station transmitting.

Some of the older transceivers had frequency offsets when switching between LSB, USB, CW and AM modes, so that if you zero-beat the AM station in one of the BFO modes then switch back to AM, the carrier may be up to a couple of kHz off frequency.  The RIT can be used to compensate for this, or if the rig has a digital readout, once the offset is figured out, it can be mentally added or subtracted to the desired frequency on the display when tuning in an AM station.  I forget the exact details of how he did it, but a local ham modified his FT-301 to add a "spot" feature in AM mode.

When a group of AM stations run fast break-in, chances are some stations will be off frequency.  I don't even try to listen in sync mode.  The Sherwood envelope detector is still 1000% better than the stock 75A4 diode detector - and the stock product detector too, for that  matter.

I have been known to intentionally slide off frequency (the old "exit stage left" tactic) when slopbuckets knowingly and deliberately try to piggy-back ride the carriers of a QSO I am in.

Lately, the bands have not been "packed" even on weekend nights when the QRN is low. One would  think it would be just the opposite during this prolonged  sunspot minimum with 20 through 10 dead after dark.

I posted a mod for my Sherwood and soon thereafter they came out with the model with the "AR" switch.  Not sure if there's any connection between the two, but in any event it's a very worthwhile mod.  The article is here:  http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=15782.0

I just hit the sync switch if people are way off, Don, and it locks immediately.  Kind of a pain in a fast breakin though.

Brett, I'm not saying what the Flex shows you isn't there.  But just because you see it on the spectrogram doesn't mean someone's running too wide.  Then again we all know that guys have problems with their xmitters at times, or run too wide.  But you can't expect a brick wall response with any xmitter.

ALso, SDRs will exhibit strange responses when overloaded.  Usually you can identify an overload if there's a whole bin that's full of signal.  My first foray with an Agilent 89441A VSA, for instance - I thought I was seeing some kind of strange frequency hopper that was exactly 4 MHz wide.  Turns out that was the A/D bandwidth, and I had the sensitivity set too high, thereby overloading the A/D converter.

Don't waste your money on a flex. HPSDR has a transceiver board in drafting that takes the present system and mount it on a 4 inch by 6 inch card. RX dynamic range higher than any other RX I have measured and MDS around -140 dbM with a 1/2 watt exciter having an IMD3 on 20 meters in the mid -50s dB. On 75 even better. Flex software is pretty accurate inside its operating range and very useful.
Yes it freaks out if a signal is too strong but the only thing I have ever seen saturate it is my own TX. Once in a while the A/D flashes saturation but that is with a BB antenna and without filtering on the input.
Any good RX will show you the clean signals and the dirty ones but the spectrum display shows 10 to 20 of them at once.
I would be willing to bet Flex is working on a system similar to HPSDR because it uses less hardware. I bet they could make a bundle if they offered new boards for the 5000 to convert it to the newer way of doing things. The 5000 is way over priced. The HPSDR system will run circles around it for around $1K once you add a final and filters.

I thought this board was about AM'ers. Yes many may have a signal a bit wide but what is wrong with talking about your signal? Can you quote one sentence of a typical AM'er boasting about their signal? Maybe they were just having some fun which by the way if you haven't noticed, your not supposed to have fun in this country anymore. The fun police are out there to get you. Be careful of what you say. It could be used against you. ??? ??? ???

W6TR posted on the Flex Reflector, 10/22, that he has a Flex 5000A up for sale. I believe it includes all the current widgets.

Once you use one of these rigs, it's hard to go back to the "old stuff".

What I notice is that once a ham gets a "Flex" he starts bugging the Non-Flex Nation about it.   :D

Maybe not everyone wants to operate a rig that's dependent on a PC and operating system and upgrades and soundcard and blah blah blah....I happen to like being able to turn the on off switch to on and operate.   ;D ;D ;D 

I agree Pete, they're probably quite nice but I think they bring a bit of a snooty attitude to the ham bands. To me a real radio has tubes in it especially in the transmitter. Perhaps they could gain some self respect if they were hooked up to a tube with handles. They do nothing in regards to preserving a piece of vintage gear. Some people sell all their old stuff and just keep the flex.

To be fair, they have got to be the most pleasing sounding of the SDR radios out there and the things you can do with them remotely simply astonishes me. I wish I could afford one so I could install it at my camp an operate remotely from my antenna-less QTH here near Albany, NY.  Just the same I would have to build a broad band tube amp for it to remove any snooty attributions from it  ;D ;D ;D  

The Flex has an ON/OFF switch  ;D plus the rig gets updated on a regular basis  ;D  plus it sounds great on AM  ;D plus it easier to lift  ;D and in answer to Terry's post, it can drive tube amplifiers without a problem  ;D and the audio output of my Flex now feeds a Bogen audio amp with a pair of 6L6's in the output driving a 3-way speaker enclosure.  ;D


I'm a firm believer in recycling vintage gear, so if the current user doesn't have any further need, move it on. It's a lot better then having some piece of vintage gear become a closet queen or stacking the stuff from floor to ceiling in every room collecting mounds of dust and decay.

I havent a clue what any of the above is supposed to mean in the context of my prior post.

Anyone tuning around 75 AM can sometimes hear signals that are trully crummy for any number of reasons and yet are often complimented on their good audio ::) It sort of tells you where these people bought their licenses or they think its 1928 all over again. Yet the only other band I hear "Rotten Signals" is 6M with those using some of the bottom feeder sets of the 50's and 60's that did the same when new. A Lafayette HA-460 may sound OK to another HA-460 or Heath Sixer but on my Clegg Interceptor the audio peaks pull the VFO right out of the filter passband. Another gem is the G-50, Polycom, Knight T-150 and a few others. Buy a crystal! Quit using the fleamarket 50's mike!

Carl
KM1H

I am in complete agreement  ;D ;D

Like I said before in another thread, (that has since been expunged), "just what I need is another gee-whizmo gadget to hook and operate with my computer." Just not my idea of fun. YMMV!

I agree, it makes you wonder if they have tin ears, are afraid to let the other guy know how he really sounds or simply doesn't know or care.  ;D ;D


What transmitters were those? The "Bottom Feeder ones?"  ??? ???

Heya Rob,
I haven't been the recipient, but it's natural to share enthusiasm.  It's the degree that would bother me, or the approach taken.

For example, I probably came on too strong promoting a campaign to rescue old BC transmitters back in the early-mid 1990s..  People who didn't have one (and may never want one) may have thought I was putting down their transmitter as I went on-and-on about mine.

Didn't mean to.

It made me more conscious of avoiding any comparison, deliberate or implied, so that the merits could stand on their own of putting a BC rig on 160-80-40.

Looking gently at the SDR users, I bet they're swept up in the same enthusiasm they want to share with others.  

I agree however, that it's a legitimate complaint if such users deliberately put down other rigs to try to make theirs look better.

The question I asked was was, what were the Bottom Feeder Transmitters?
I don't know which ones Carl had a bad experience with or heard? Gonset, Heath, I just don't know. There was a lot of nice transmitters back then because it was mostly before repeaters and there could have been some really cheap stuff I hadn't heard of.  Maybe there is a new thing going around that might be labeled as the FLEX TREATMENT. I noticed when I operate remotely from a site in CT, people are not very enthused by the concept probably because I'm using a computer to talk to them via the internet.   

Well, okay.  I had this nice smart a## answer for Pete but I deleted it in the interests of collegiality  ;) so suffice it to say that the PC controlled SDR boxes aren't everyone's cup of tea.  I have seen them; I have a very good friend who owns one and thinks it's fantastic but I prefer to just do radio and not deal with the whole PC part of the bargain.   I want to get things I can figure out and repair myself.

I was at a hamfest a few years ago, an out of town deal, so I had to stay at a local motel.  The morning of the fest, I was downstairs for the free motel breakfast.  The lobby was crowded with hams.  I sat down to eat what I had scrounged and a guy sat down and introduced himself.  As soon as he learned I operated the low bands and ran an amp, he immediately started talking to me about QRP and how wonderful it was.  I calmly stated I had no interest in low power.  That was ignored.  The guy wouldn't shut up about QRP.  I eventually had to get up and leave.  I guess the lesson in here for me is to shut up when I'm tempted to gush to my SSB buddies about AM   ;D  or my new WRL 755 I made a deal on  :D

Brett,

I'm curious about what rig you had before you got your Flex radio.  It sounds as if all of this stuff was hidden from you before.  I mean, as you know, your Flex Radio didn't make all this stuff happen.  All these lousy signals were there all along but it seems you didn't notice them before.  I wonder what rig you were running.  I can certainly hear the distorted audio stations at my place.  I get the stations "off frequency" which I assume means two or more stations not zero beat to each other.   My hunch is that they are running old AM receivers that have such wide passband it isn't noticed by them.  I have one that is so wide I can't tell someone is off frequency unless he's over 5 KHz away.   Sometimes I have to work a station I have trouble copying, by putting the receiver on lower or upper sideband and zero beating him then I can detect his drift because I'll have to retune every few minutes, but to me, these things all go with the territory of hams running old gear.  On the distortion though, my guess is those stations aren't looking at their outputs with scopes and/or listening with some kind of detector monitor or separate rx.

73
Rob
K5UJ

too much bitching about stuff you cant control. other hams been operating in a manner you would'nt approve of since before WW1.

same as it ever was. Just got finished reading story in early 1930's QST about coming crack down on hams playing music under the guise of testing their transmitters and stopping "drunken 160 meter phone parties".

Imagine that, hams getting drunk on the air.  :D

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, just like the song says. The sinners really are much more fun.

Where I draw the the line is deliberate jamming. no fun there for anyone.
shouldnt this whole thread be moved to QSO?

If they cannot control you they usually ahve to resort to name-calling I guess ?

Yep,  I hear them out there too. It seems they somehow really want to control even the minutest details of the station they are in QSO  with for some reason.  I really enjoy to hearing  Dave, W9AD making his beachfront transmissions from deep into Mexico. He sounds great on his Flex in Illinois VIA the internet connection to XE land. Many of the fine fellows on the 75 Meter DX-60 net look forward to a little Mexican sunshine on the frosty winter mornings. The Flex helps that to happen.

 I just ordered an OMNI VII for its ease of operation VIA the internet. An interest in vintage gear surely does not exclude the operation of newer equipment.

I love everything from spark to sdr it all has its place.
All about making the watt meter deflect to the right

Interesting thread...........
I have an SDR receiver, a Winradio G313 in my room. In the shack I use either a 74A4 or and R390A. The winradio has a bandscope so I can see the signals but my other receivers do not. I do NOT need the scope to tell me what someones signal is doing or sounds like..........seems to me if one has to SEE the signal to criticize it, then one might need a hearing aid or something ::)

JMHO........!

Bill

Howdy Howdy,

I've read all the postings on this I Have three Ten-Tecs an one of them is the Pegasus and it's somewhat Software Driven I can also run my Jupiter in Pegasus Framework, I remember an adjustment period I went through on learning receiving techniques with these two of course that was awhile ago an now I know what to expect when I switch to those They don't receive AM very well at all neither one has a quality software pandapter, Perhaps as more time is gained on that Flex an a settle in period is accomplished it will all wash out.

I've studied the Flex Software for sometime now, I've no operational time with one, but from what Ive learned an read the SDR environment is more critical on incoming signals even a little Edgy in some respects is my opinion.

Sit back a little have a beer an slow down that rig will grow on ya. 8)

73
Jack.

Jack the Flex is cool, and at least regarding the SDR1000, can produce good AM communications on both transmit and receive.

Less familiar with the newer one, but when the 1K first got to W3DUQ, W3VR and W9AD there was a LOT of discussion and review.

As for "remote" operation, I think I posted that nice exchange between Brian and the AM special event station up at the Armstrong Tower site in NJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuueqTl0fDo

Hi Paul,

 Yes Sir I remember that, David always great copy on my end an Bri he's a good friend an a good Op, I need to check into the simplex frequency on 2 an check in with everybody it's been awhile man....we used to have a little Black Sheep net thing going on there  ;D used to get pretty orny ...LOL....The oldsters would avoid us ... that's them younger guys again..LOL...gotta watch'em... 8)

73
Jack.

ah, now in QSO. the only reason was it turns out the topic really didnt have much tech stuff in it, thats all.  :D

I have had all the old vintage stuff, but have been running only tube homebrew for the last 10 years or so, on AM, do not do other modes much.
I have been on AM at a low but steady rate for the last 30 years at least.
I rarely get on at nite, and dont do a lot of operating in the summer.

I thought the exact same way, I do NOT want a computer in the shack, and thought real radio was tubes, knobs, and a lot of meters.

I needed something to drive the various home brew rigs with, and the flex said it had 3 antenna outputs plus a seperate receive antenna port, works with the big TR contactor and I can drive the pair of 813's with one port, the 3x4D32 rig with the second, and have one port going to the antenna directly, seemed like a good setup.
I had also heard the audio quality on RX and TX was very good, it does all modes, even odd things like dsb, has a sync detector, balanced line input, mixer, tx and rx 10 band EQ, the ability to record off the air and play it back over the air, etc.

So I got one.  Its fun and it works great.

The big thing with these radios is you see (look at) about 200 KHz of the band, so you SEE exactly what is going on, you cant help seeing peoples signals, the frequency, the modulation, the bandwidth, amplitude, all of it.

In the past, I may have heard splatter from someone, maybe tuned around to find out who it was, maybe, and would just think they were strong, or whatever.  If someone was off frequency, I might have noticed, likely not, I remember the R4C having problems on AM when one station was off freq, that receiver was narrow and tight, and you would not hear someone off freq at all!

Well, on the flex, you see everything, you cant help seeing everything, when someone modulates and 25 KHz lights up, you notice....you also notice the other qso's going on in that 25 KHz....

There have ALWAYS been guys with poor audio on the bands, everything from carbon mic's, to crappy radios, I have run them in the past proudly.
But it seems now some guys run a really bad sounding rig into a big amp and talk a LOT, and seem to think they sound good or someone would enjoy listening to them...
Not the telephone audio but distorted and muffled...

I suppose its good to be into various things, sdr, tube stuff, class E rigs, vintage gear, broadcast transmitters, and not think only tube homebrew AM is any good, or only Collins gear is any good, or you get no glory without a big broadcast transmitter, or if you dont do CW you are just wasting bandwidth, or that ESSB is the devels mode, etc....

I know there are lots of guys using various sdr setups, some just as a detector, some as receivers, some as the bandscope, but I warn you, get one and it would be very hard to go back to being blind.
And without sdr, blind is exactly what you are...

Brett

Things change Brett, it's true.

VJB, for example, had said:

"I don't watch TV."  (circa 1980s)

"I don't do email." (early 90s.)

"I don't want a computer in the radio room." (pre 2007)

Next thing you know I'll go slopbucket, contest !<  and sell all my AM szht to Dave Knepper.

Think I'll join the ARRL tonight, I ain't feeling right.

 Paul, the Asian Radio Retail Lobby...you ?

August 2009 worked you on 2 meter sideband. You've worked the Heavy Metal contest and don't we have a picture of you somewhere working "Vintage Field Day"? Looks like you only have two to go to complete all your tasks.

Well we should look at all the modes and at least try them on, would add to the balance of an Amateurs Experience. The Newer Rigs are a Blessing sometimes so is AM so is CW, be well Balanced in all things that's what my old man used to say...Some Days I turn on a Hali's..an some days I turn on the Ten-Tec's. :) some days I don't turn nothen on but a Laptop full of PSK...one watt work the coast big deal...

73
Jack.

October 24, 2009 8:28pm EDT

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And with a rig like mine, you can see up to 50Mhz of band on screen, all at once....
Haven't decided whether that's a "bell" or a "whistle".

You do see everything, from the Boston Buzzy, frequency grinders, morons, etc....
I was tuning around with a ts440 the other day, and felt like I was in a box, unable to see what was going on around me...   :D

Luckily though, even though blind, at least I'm not deaf, and could still enjoy my radio playtime fine and dandy..  :o

I'm selling out.

Try reading that post for crying out loud ::) Then add some of your own if you were on 6 back then.

I thought I heard a very loud clap of thunder and saw some lightening flashing back around 8:30 PM. I guess it wasn't a storm. Both Dave's will be pleased  8)

Especially for lightening my wallet.

Well excuse me, I thought those were all fine sounding radios so I guess that's where we differ. I guess I like bottom feeder radios ;D ;D

By the way here is my link to my soap box ;D ;D

http://info.org.il/irrelevant/may02-smilepop-soapbox4.swf (http://info.org.il/irrelevant/may02-smilepop-soapbox4.swf)

I bet you did it so that you could participate in the ongoing annual auction. There's a Flex up there and a Perseus SDR receiver.

But seriously  :o :o Can you share with us your reason(s) for re-joining the ARRL. Obviously some enlightenment must have prevailed for you to take this step again.

Hmmm.  Interesting how takes on something differ.  What all this SDR visual display information that some ops like, is to me a distraction.  When I'm in a qso, I like to concentrate on what the ham I'm working is saying because the operating aspect of ham radio for me is social.   Therefore I prefer to give what's being said to me my full attention.  Actually I have enough to distract me as it is when I'm transmitting--scope, trapezoid on the sb610, reflected power meter--but on rx I can sit back and listen and jot some notes when the copy is good.  When I've seen the Flex Radio in operation the screen has a blizzard of stuff to look at and it makes me feel like I have to have ADD to want that. Anyway, for all the SDR ops, I'm glad you all like ur rigs and they do serve a useful purpose--plenty of times I have asked a ham I'm working to take a look at my sig. (if he's operating a SDR rig with a panadapter) and tell me what he sees so I have benefited indirectly from them.   

Also, I am not what you would call an early adopter.  I don't have a cell phone for example.  I just read in the paper that there's now a term for people like me--"cell phone refuseniks."  In fact, name just about any gadget that's
 been invented since 1980 and I probably don't have one.  I have a cordless phone land line.  and a computer obviously. 

73

Rob K5UJ

That's like saying that after experiencing TV it would be very hard to go back to listening to the (broadcast) radio. Of course that's exactly what the TV marketeers tried to convince the public in the late 40's and early 50's.  But radio stayed with us. I have a TV but it probably amounts to less than 5% of my broadcast reception. The other 95% is radio.

When I am working or listening to a QSO in the ham bands, I am not particularly interested in what is happening all over the rest of the band.  The panadaptor may be a useful tool, but if I had one I doubt that I would use it all the time.

do what makes you happy, and allow others the freedom to do the same. there's a reason it's called Amateur Radio.

We aint professionals, we is us.  ;D  someone, somewhere is always not going to like your style.

BTW, anyone that is into something I'm not MUST DIE!  ::)

Yea Man,

....Style...You hit it Derb..right on the head of the nail. problem ain't here it's everyone here has it,it comes natural, and it's vivacious..it's like Soul music when I was in school man, soul music was out there Marvin Gay..Smokey Robinson..and it was my style I learned to dance with a bunch a Black girls I skated with down at the roller rink in town.. and the white guys hated it they hated me..because the women loved it...so I didn't fit...oh well..I wasn't lonely long... 8) but then again not fitten in with a crew made it a bitch getten through.

So some folks think we're crazy rebuilding an era living a style of fidelity and as least distortion as possible within the realm....we don't buy their system or their methods so we don't fit...I'm used to it problem is certain folks ain't happy unless they're making somebody miserable...I listen alot Transmit little an Say Hi when I need to..

If that ain't good enough Oh well.... ;D


73
Jack.

Geeeezzeeee! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !  Whatz this world coming to? ? ?  ??? ???

2-meter slopbucket, joining the ARRL, Next thing you know he'll be givin up the BC rigs and buying a ricebox  ;D  ;D

Kinda like the "class-E" boys   ;)  ;D

nice..........

Or the "I run a broadcast transmitter" snobs.

I think I figured out why Paul has had a problem with ARRL. Yesterday I was over at my son's place and he was having a problem with a control circuit on a model car. A 330 uf cap at 16 volts broke off the control board. My son who has little electronic  knowledge always refers to a 1995 ARRL handbook I gave him when he runs into areas where he is unsure of something. I was paging through it and in the beginning  of the book, there is WA3VJB's picture with his equipment in the background sporting a goatee. Did they stop using your image after that? Is that the problem ;D ;D

That shot is kinda scary.

I remember one Sunday morning around 6AM at Gathersburg, after a Saturday night meditation session, when we all looked scary.

"...there is WA3VJB's picture with his equipment in the background sporting a goatee."

I wonder if my equipment would better sporting a goatee? Hmmmm......

Absolutely. I know a lot of males these days are into that clean shaven look, but hair on your equipment may not only be the norm, but be required according to sociologists studying this more recent  phenomenon, not to mention baggy pants.    

Hair on an organ.

Here's my 2 cents:

Last night I met an old friend (Crackers, ssb, 3921).  He said "Al see you after the net."  OK, so after the net I saw that a 4 land QSO on 3920 would be much better avoided if we slid up a couple KC.  So I said to my friend "Al (yes, two Al's talking to each other) it's clearer a couple KC up -- see you there."  I called him and things were progressing great until 7:28 and some 4 land net guy said "This is W4??? standing by for the (whatever) net."  A co-channel problem in the making.  I noticed that 3917 was clear so I said "There's a clear spot on 3917, see you there."  Brought up the cross hairs and put it on 3917 left clicked  - instant QSY and we picked up without skipping a beat.  The rest of the QSO went on uninterrupted.   I love that feature plus the excellent performance of the Flex 5000.

Didn't have to ask "is this frequency in use?" because I knew it wasn't -- a habit that a Flexer develops - watching the band for what's on for activity.

Regards, Al  VTP

I'm enthused or at least interested.  What is your remote set up?

Jon

 Well it's a fellow ham in CT who is using a TS-2000. I haven't been using it lately because he was sighting the cost of electricity and the fact that now that winter is approaching,he is using the system more often.

Send me a PM and I'll give you his call sign, perhaps he'll let you use his stuff. It was over two months before I received an invite.He was very nice about talking me through the set up. You will need Skipe to make it work and another program called Log Me In.

Hello AL  

Do you know anyone about 99 years old that has one and would put me in their will ;D ;D ;D

That must be a very handy feature.

Looks like this would be in reach of many of us poorer hams. Just the thing to drive a 4-400.

FLEX-1500™ QRP Software Defined Radio will start shipping in Dec 2009.



http://www.flex-radio.com//Products.aspx?topic=F1.5k_features (http://www.flex-radio.com//Products.aspx?topic=F1.5k_features)

Here is the comparison of the others Flexers compared to the 1500

http://www.flex-radio.com//Products.aspx?topic=SDR_Feature_Matrix (http://www.flex-radio.com//Products.aspx?topic=SDR_Feature_Matrix)

I think I'm hooked ;D ;D  They use a term called TBD?? Maybe to be determined??

All that for $579.00. I guess this would be below the snooty range ;D ;D ;D

OR tulips on an organ!

Is that the infamous Hammond B3?? With the Leslie cabinet?
Fred

HA  -- remember that one --
What's better than Roses On A Piano ...


Yes, that's a 1960 B-3 that we bought from a woman in Baltimore, who had been playing it at a bar near Fells Point for many years. All kinds of cigarette burns and drink rings on that lid.  In the background was ANOTHER Hammond, a rare two-generator job whose bearings were shot on the tonewheel shafts. Too bad. Drilled a couple holes underneath and sprayed WD-40 every so often to shut it up. 

I'd check the tx frequency response on AM before getting a 3000 or 1500.  you might become yellerfied  :P

Rob

Did you see the specs on the Flex-1500? Last I heard, they hadn't published them yet because their testing wasn't completed.

I guess they feel the need to differentiate the product line. Everyone was assuming the TX bandwidth on the 3000 would be the same as the 5000 but it seems Flex is limiting it to 3.6Khz via the firmware, not cool. Applying Flex-logic the 1500 should be limited to 1.8Khz! I might have to cancel my 1500 order.

What I know is that on SSB tx the 5000 allows narrow to wide response; the 3K restricts the tx response to (I thought it was 3000 hz but is it 3.6 KHz?  okay) and I heard the 1500 would be the same.  Now, of course AM may be different.  And, compared to SSB, 3600 Hz on AM is not, to me at least, intolerable, and there are plenty of times when it is desirable but I would like the option of being able to go for a higher fidelity response for certain circumstances, narrowing the baseband audio instead.

Rob

I spoke with Jay - N3WWL in the past week. He was running his new Flex. If the audio bandwidth was limited, it was not noticeable on his signal. I don't doubt that on a quiet band and a wide receiver, some difference would be noticable. But more often than not, the RX bandwidth is not available (either due to receiver limitations or due to QRM) to hear the difference.

I would definitely agree with Steve on this. I was very skeptical about the Flex 3000 with its firmware imposed 3.6kc bandwidth limitation, but Jay sounded very nice in the AM mode. The audio was smooth, well balanced, and pleasant to listen to. As Jay pointed out, it's actually 3.6 + 3.6 = 7.2kc in the AM mode, so that's not too far off from the typical 5 + 5 that many guys run with the Flex 1000/5000 series. I wish I had taken the time to record a few minutes of his audio.

There was a very nasty thread in the Flex forum back about 6 months ago, regarding Flex's decision to limit the TX bandwidth in the 1500/3000 series. One Flex forum rep made it clear that it was not done as a result of any pressure from the FCC, but he steered away from giving any rationale for their decision. The thread was locked when the "Thou shall not exceed 2.4kc" bandwidth preachers became very agitated by the concept of a transceiver being sold that might exceed their desires for a narrower world. Speculation was that the decision might make the Flex 1500/3000 series more compatible with the requirements of overseas markets, but no one could confirm this. It appears that most of that original thread was deleted by the moderator(s).

Need to read the specs:
Flex 5000A or 5000C - For AM operation, the transmit audio response is from 10 Hz to 20 kHz, since it's controlled by the software. http://kc.flex-radio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50044.aspx

Flex 3000 - For AM operation, the transmit audio response is from 10 Hz to 7.3 kHz, since it's controlled only by the firmware. http://kc.flex-radio.com/KnowledgebaseArticle50352.aspx

Flex 1500 - No published specs yet but now have a picture of what it will look like:
(http://www.flex-radio.com/Data/Image/F1500_view_small.png)

If you want to compare the different features between them, go here:
http://www.flex-radio.com/Products.aspx?topic=SDR_Feature_Matrix

What is the problem with the AMFONE web site? If I try to quote a long response, the window to type my reply along with the Quote jumps and I cannot get to the bottom of the quote to start typing...................Happens on every computer I use to access AMFONE. Three home computers and a work computer 33 mi. from home.

I was going to quote Rob about the display from SDR being a distraction. I find it pretty useful using my simple SoftRock Lite board that I can enable the proper filter or move the I.F. around to get away from an offending signal or broad signal or splatter from an A.M. QSO 4 kc away. And the listening pleasure resumes, instead of cursing and swearing.

Fred

The problem happens with IE.

Yep IE 7 or 8 or whatever I'm using now....

Not just AMfone, but every BB I frequent......

Wish I could find a setting somewhere, because it's VERY annoying!!   ???

10 Hz to 7.3 KHz audio response would be nice, or is it 10Hz to 3.65 KHz audio response for a total AM TX bandwidth of 7.3 KHz? There seems to be some confusion out there.

Gee, I'm using Flex software with my HPSDR and the 10 band TX EQ goes out to about 8 KHz if I remember. My only issue is you can't modulate over 100% limited by software.
Flex IF is 10 or 11 kHz so that would limit the bandwidth

The specs in the links I provided should answer your question, but each sideband mode maximum is 3.65 kHz, so, since AM has two sidebands, 3.65 + 3.65 = 7.3 kHz.

yes Pete but previously you posted:


Audo response and transmit bandwidth are two different things.

Rob

If the bandwidth is limited to 3.6K either side of carrier, no audio above that gets through, depending, of course on what we mean by limited.  In a dull (as opposed to sharp filter) that might mean some frequency like say 3.6K is the -6 dB point with a gradual roll off after that, so audio above 3.6K does get through, it's just progressively attenuated.  I suspect, however,  in the Flex it's a brick wall filter so zip above 3.6K gets through period.  The Tx equalization above that is irrelevant.  That audio is not getting out of the radio.

I have listened to a Flex 3000 and watched it on the panadpater of my Flex 1000 so I should know the answer but dang I forgot.

I am right about this, aren't I?

Yes that's correct. If the Flex 3000 transmits 10 Hz to 7.65 KHz worth of audio response, then it's AM signal would be 15.3 Khz wide.