The AM Forum

Hello all,
I have noticed in the last couple of ER mags that there has been a few Hams selling equipment that was restored to almost new condition by Howard W3HM.
Would they be trying to "flip" their investments trying to make a buck?
The prices are usualy 5 figures.

Fred

I bet there are fewer hams willing to pay 5 figures

Hi Fred,

Just a few logical guesses and thoughts on your query:

Perhaps they need the cash from the sale of the equipment for unexpected retirement and medical expenses, etc., or other potentially emergency needs.

Or perhaps they have simply tired of the equipment, and are looking to convert the $$$ from the sale into something else of more interest, even an item completely unrelated to amateur radio. 1967 big-block Corvettes are nice, and so are 1955 Porsche Speedsters, or 1955 Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing coupes. I'd personally rather have one of those than a Collins 30K transmitter, but that's just me.

Another alternative may also be cutting their losses on some of this collectible gear, in that the market value for a lot of it peaked a few years ago, and they clearly see this downward trend as probably continuing for the long-term. In other words, getting out while the getting is good.

And is anyone buying any of those W3HM-restored 5-figure rigs as advertised in ER? Is $15K the correct current price for a W3HM-restored Collins 30K? What I am really suggesting here is do they sell at that price after being on the market for a reasonable period of time? I personally have no idea.  My guess is that the Collins KW-1 is probably one of the relatively few rigs that have been largely untouched by the classic/collectible amateur radio equipment price deflation we have been witnessing for the last several years.

Just my thoughts.

73,

Bruce

Price high $$ and you have room to negotiate;  price low $$ and you have no place to go.

Mostly for the profit.

73
Jack.

That's unfair Jack. To think that anyone could Profit from selling a Mills restoration is, well, foolish. Howard's work is perfection and his price tag reflects the skill and effort he spends on each and every rig he works on. Only those willing to pay the price of admission can enjoy the fruits of Howard's skill and craftsmanship. I doubt anybody has "made a profit" from a W3HM restoration but if somebody did, good on them. To paraphrase Bruce's comments, if I had a restored 1955 Porsche Speedster (my dream car) in my garage and I need cash because the economy sucks I might need to sell it.

I have noticed I'm getting hits on some unobtainimum stuff on eBay that I have in my wish list. Times are not the greatest right now and expensive toy's are for sale. The price is up to you. Profit is not yours to ponder.

Mike

I can't help but wonder if some people know things we don't.  For example, there are jobs whose salary was very good but have now disappeared and won't come back .  Some people are saying we are in for a double dip recession soon (probably but don't know how deep the bottom will be), and the jobs that will come along after the so called recovery won't pay the same amount the ones we lost did.

So maybe some of these guys are selling short??  That is my guess as to part of it.  And how many times have you heard those rigs on the air?  Maybe they don't use them and want the space for something else like the Porsche Speedster, which has a wider market and won't depreciate in their eyes.

I just hope that the prices of "vintage" equipment don't fall to the point that the stuff once again starts going to the dump. Audiophoolery probably saved many unobtainium triode tubes and audio transformers from being trashed.  Maybe some of the tubes and other stuff saved from the landfill wil be selling for realistic instead of ridiculously inflated prices.

I'm thinking that maybe this whole "economic crisis" is nothing more than an inevitable re-adjustment to reality.  The general public has been every bit as guilty of spending beyond its means as the government has.

Yeah I saw the 30K1 was listed again this month and I was mildly surprised.  Expected some well heeled ham to jump on it.

Me, for that kind of dough I'd try to build something and save a few kilobucks.

I'm curious, what was the asking price on the 30K?

I got one those going down at Amateur Radio Center AKA "Ernie's" in downtown baltimore the mid 80's. Complete setup, the A1 receiver, the matching exciter for the 30 K, probably all a 9 on the collins scale. It was down in the basement of the store. The original owner was W3LUE. he used gold duro decals and put his call on the window. looked kool as all hell. When Ernie died the tale was that he willed the rig to a long time technician (Eddie) who worked there for 25+ years. the rumor was that it went over to Japan for a high 4 figure sum. it had some nasty PCB HV cap problems, some of the small stuff was fried, but nothing major.

used to ride my 62 merc up to the store and operate in the daytime on 40 meters, then ride down to the other end of town and go to work at Golden Age Radio fixing BCL sets.  8)  life was pretty good.

I've had a major desire to revisit my old haunts for a long time but not driving puts a crimp in those plans.

Derbmeister,
The ad from Orange County, NY  N2WXJ2Yahoo.com  (the 2 is an '@' sign ?)
$15k for
30K-1 & 310A exciter S/N 133
completely refurbished by Mills
845-323-1113 for info or pix.

Guess you really have to want one.
What with SDR and us'n's getting older, big gear like this you need a ROOM with overhead crane  ;D

but you know, thats like buying a brand new one. How much did that setup cost when it was made? with todays dollerette, how much are you paying for it now vs when it was new?

I used to rail against such stuff, but I dont feel that bad about it now. Life is short and the time clock is always running. You got to do what makes you happy while you can enjoy it. I wouldnt spend 15K on it, but if someone wants to, who am I to care?

new life experiences bring new perspectives.  ;)

Yeah Tim,
Those were some pretty nice days in the early 90's and A.M. I remember the Christmas party at a store(?) and in the basement was this very large big powerful looking TX box. BIG! 
Radio drool that was what I saw and still remember your great deal for MOP radio and two virgin new 810's, for a modulator I had completed. Those tubes really perked that modulator up.

Fred

I apologize for not getting back here sooner since I think I was the one who mentioned the 30K1 was listed a second month in ER. 

>What with SDR and us'n's getting older, big gear like this you need a ROOM with overhead crane

I was in a QSO a couple nights ago and we were talking about moving bc rigs into basements and I mentioned needing help from a friend to get the HT20 into my basement where I could work on it.  This is a rig that weighs more than most linear amps sold these days.  I managed to pull it up out of the car trunk, where I turned and lowered it onto a furniture dolly so I could roll it into my garage and just doing that I felt it in my back and abs.   When he and I schlepped it into the basement and got it up on a table my friend asked how much it weighed and I told him 100 lbs. and I was glad there were rack handles on the f.p.  So the QSO topic came up of how hams in the old days moved their gear around when damn near everything weighed at least 100 lbs.   Were they all in-shape muscle men back then?  How did a couch potato fat old ham in 1951 get a KW1 into and out of his shack?   Hire some high school kids?  That's a no-go these days.  Guess I need to start working out again.   What do you all do?  Have the truck back into the empty lot, set the rig down then build the house around it?  ;D  Rig up an overhead gantry in your shack? 

Rob K5UJ

Pieces.....alot went down my steps in Pieces ....SMALL Pieces....LOL....

73
Jack.

I'll never have to worry about the $15K restored like new radio set. If I had that one, I'd be loathe to use it lest there be a problem and its value diminished. And what would happen if I scratched it? and so on. Owning perfect museum pieces is not for everyone.

When did profit become a 4 letter word in our society?

Those who point the finger at the profiteers are the first in line at the MegaBucks window.

Go figure!

Further to your point Buddly, if someone one else wants to sell THEIR radio it's THEIR business not mine. This is true, regardless of the price.

The boyz got off track Rob :o


When I picked up my 32V2 from '3HM some years ago, I just carried it out to the car ... well, rolled it on a wheeled stool that Howard used for sitting down while repairing.   Carried it up second floor in farmhouse, no sweat. Last move to WV in'95, the movers carried it to basement; I still move it arouind on benches.

 But, have to admit,  when I worked on audio section last time, I just slid it out over bench and worked on it from 'underneath the front' just like a car lift.

The 813's rig was built in sections, the rack mounted on 4" dolly wheels.  Rolls around nicely, but I've never removed it from this room yet.....  going to be interesting if I want to take it off site, say to Dobbins Island  ;D

I guess we just help each other or enlist kids when they visit, etc.
-Stuff we never thought of when we were strappin' nerds. 

Even if they think it has zero value, as long as they don't throw it in the dumpster or lay it out kerbside (now abandoned property), then pitch a shit-fit and call the cops when they see me pulling it out of the dumpster or lifting it off the street and hauling it home.

If I owned the dumpster, and you were crawling around inside and pulling things out, I  would call the police. In our town, you have to call for a "heavy trash" pickup and only put it out the night before. It can't sit at the curb for days or weeks. When they arrive, and if it's not there, they are not happy.

Now we can't be nosen around peoples dumpsters.. :D...it's Funny to think alot of members here still do it,..after all these years in my 50's just like being Big kids...I Do...I'll look Neb an Snatch....LOL ;D

73
Jack.

Dumpster diving saved me mucho $$ on a new microwave, 1 dead one for free at a yard sale, only 2 years old, and a magnatron from a dumpster unit at the local drop place. Total cost: $0.00!!  ;D
Norm K7NCR

Don't underestimate trash scavenging..

I got my first TV set by riding my bike up and down the alleys and finding old TVs, then coming back with a wagon and dragging them home. I did that a few times and then just started carying tools and a box, and I'd get all the tubes and the transformers right there.. My first TV set was monochrome 21" and made up of at least three sets that were no relation to each other. It also eventually had a couple of switches that could be thrown to fire up an old public address amp and switch the yoke leads to the amp via a crosover network and also switch the chassis to a "spare" yoke so it would keep making high voltage. I would play ELP and Yes albums and watch the music and play with L and C values for the crossover to "optimize" the patterns. I was warned (by my elmer, Frank Miller W5PBN) that I should not leave a TV set electron beam undeflected on the CRT face as it could eventually drilll a hole in the glass. He didn't get upset when I deviously asked how long that would take.. In spite of his very conservative old-timer nature, and the fact he knew I was listening to "noise" instead of "music" while watching my "scope", he did not condemn these strange projects but rather gave me stern safety warnings and good circuit advice.

Mr. Miller gave me a photocopy of an article on building a 3" scope, seeing as I had built one from a TV set, albeit a crappy one. I was poring over it for so long, and trying to find the parts. After a few months, I had only a few of the parts, and no CRT at all, but I always had the article close at hand. My father took pity on me and for my birthday drove me to Nortex and let me pick out a refurbished scope. The cheapest was a choice between a 3" military portable and a 5" Dumont 304-A, both were $40. I chose the DuMont because it had more controls and seemed more versatile. To this day I still have it. $40 was alot of money in those days.

My second TV was a 21" round color set of mixed ancestry and my father was both amazed and horrified at the thing sitting there on a table in my room, CRT and metal bezel supported by wood brackets and every last high voltage point exposed and corona hissing.. 24KV I believe. I was given a choice to build a plywood cover for it or dismantle it.

But back to radio dealers, selling and buying, any willing seller and buyer - it is their biz. Will that Collins fetch $15K? Not while hams are the cheapest people alive.

I'm thinking my First Scope was a Heath I had a Eico early on too I can't remember which one was first prolly the Eico.

I'm Not much on SK chasers we have a couple around my area an as soon as somebody kicks the can they're knocking on the door.

I don't have a problem with Profit either or what somebody sells it's their biz, but SK chasers Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr..


73
Jack.

speaking of dumpsters...
Did'ja see where a couple of lovers were using a dumpster for romance the other day when a couple of more guys got in with them and robbed them?

Beware of excessive dumpster divin'.  -er, as Pete says, " know your local law."

I did the same. I remember getting a bunch of black telephones with chrome rotary dials, from the dumpster behind the General Telephone C.O. (GTE) in my hometown. Plus many feet of that really tough steel wire they strung.
Later I graduated from telephones to TV/radios by hanging out afternoons at a repair shop, I would load up whatever they tossed out back, into my bicycle basket and sneak it into my dad's garage, where I would take all the parts out and dump the chassis and CRT (after, of course, smashing it with a WOOSH). Eventually a radio guy gave me a Hallicrafters S36 that I could barely haul in my basket.

"Don't underestimate trash scavenging..
I got my first TV set by riding my bike up and down the alleys and finding old TVs, then coming back with a wagon and dragging them home. I did that a few times and then just started carying tools and a box, and I'd get all the tubes and the transformers right there.. "

You got that right. We around here used to call them "collins collectors" because they'd go in and pick off the meatballs for a few pennies and leave the widow with the spaghetti.. but that was demeaning to collectors of collins equipment most of which are decent people.

My parents are having a large involvement (along with some other neighbors of long standing on our street) in taking care of Frank's XYL. Even before, for several years, the good old neighbors would take turns taking her and Frank to the store, the doctors, etc. I told my dad about SK chasers and my mom said the poor lady didn't know what to do about all Frank's equipment, so they told her to not do a thing for 6 months, there is never any rush.

I was very happy to see several people from his ham radio club at the funeral service. Those are his long time friends and would never do anything wrong against his wife, so at least there is nothing to worry about in this case.

Frank didn't have any Collins stuff recently, but he used to work on it. He used to go on and on about autotune and slug racks and servos.. Because of that I bought three 618S-1's years later. A thing of beauty to watch, especially with a VFO jacked in.

I cant imagine wasting money on a HM or anyones else restoration. My stuff gets used and not stored in a enviromentally controlled chapel.

When I was a skinny 17 year old the 2 BC-610's from AF MARS came apart in the garage and into the basement in manageable sections. Once the first one was fired up and creamed every TV in the area they both got stripped for parts. That wound up as a PP 250TH amp using MARS 810's for audio and the mod iron from some local who was going SSB.

Never cooked either 610 PS using one for RF and the other for audio.

These days I lift weights (just enough to be usefull) as does my 22 year old son ( benches 300 #) so I had help getting both HT-9's out of the trunk and into the basement. The physical size is too much for one person and they are high on the lowest ouput per pound and weight list of the 40's and later. Maybe the Meissner 150B is the king but all I have of that is the VFO unit.  I still lug the Vikings, R-390A and similar dead weight by myself.

Carl
KM1H

Having one HT-9 that might be repairable and one for parts, it seems OK. Not sure how I will use it. Too wide for a 19" rack and space is at a premium.

Yeah - I remember moving some pretty heavy stuff back in the 70's (100llbs+) and I had a serious back problem.  WHAT WAS I THINKING (NOT)?  I dunno, I just moved the stuff around the best I could and didn't have help doing it.  Maybe that's the reason in 1980, I finally had to have a bilateral fusion in my back.  Stupid of me, but I really was having fun! ;D

 I have to agree that I never could abide pristine museum pieces in my shack.  I want a few nicks and scratches in it so I'm comfortable with it.

Al

yeah. I am going to smoke in front of it, why ruin a pristine item..

And for the heavy stuff, if it is over 100-150 lbs I put it on a furniture dolly and wheel it to the block and tackle, then lift it to a cart. No more just picking it up. There is a pair of 200A GE Inductrol voltage regulators, each is 150 lbs. Each has two lifting rings, opposing corners. I remember putting a finger through each, and lifting the thing to carry it slowly across the shack 15 years ago. A year or so ago I needed to oil the bearings in the motor and tried that and no dice. The fingers still seemed willing but the back refused. what was I thinking?

Has anyone of some age who routinely builds and uses a lot of tools noticed their hands are still very good, or have people (maybe older than some) found they have arthritis or other issues that now get in the way of the pleasures of hand tools?

Im pushing 69 and have always used my hands, arms, legs, and back fairly hard as my other hobby is messing around with many things automotive. I also climb my towers which are 60, 100, 100, and 180'. So far no problems. I also do modest weight lifting plus hand and wrist exercises....no, not that kind :D. In HS I was active in many sports including track and cross country.

Dont know if it helps but I pop a triple strength Glusosamine/Chondroiton every AM. Doc says its benefits are unknown but doesnt seem to have any downside.

The last thing I want is to become a couch potato so hopefully I'll be active until I reach room temperature.

Now, if I could only lose 10 damn pounds around the middle! That is really bugging me.

Carl

Gotaa Firm Grip huh Carl,.. ;D.. what's the Glusosamine for if nobody knows what it does..?



73
Jack.

Sometimes I cant let go ;D

Glucosamine (corrected spelling) is supposed to lubricate the joints (non smoking variety) and is a standard OTC supplement.

Carl
KM1H

Very Good Carl, as long as you feel Good and Healthy That's all that matters to me..

73
Jack.

Thanks for the ideas for lifting heavy stuff.  Sounds like I got to get back to lifting weights again and maybe get one of those belts movers wear and buy some heavy four wheel carts.  I priced those things new.  Jeez, one decent cart for a shop is 400 to 500 bucks. 

73

Rob K5UJ

Find a surplus shop that cleans out belly up industrial outfits. Good used carts are $50-100 here.

Now. in my younger days we used to make 4 wheel V-8 engine carts from wayward supermarket carts, a bit of angle iron and welding. ;D

Carl