The AM Forum

What a blast last night!  

I received this recording today from an SWL named Gert-Jan in the Netherlands. We were on from 9:30 PM until 2:30 AM in the morning in the 75M DX window. Steve/WB3HUZ and I held court for FIVE hours and worked a continuous pile-up of Russians and Europeans, South Africa, South America and New Zealand stations.  Also worked a few of the pissweak 10 watt Novice UK stations. (Foundation license)  We were later joined by Bob/W2ZM and Pete/K2PM.

Steve and I were feeding the wolves for a change.  Usually it's the Americans calling the Euros.

The entire recording (less than 3 minutes) was made from Europe. It's interesting to hear what it sounds like on the other side of the pond.

Listen for Steve's request for a drain break ... :-)  And Fabio's name changed throughout the night from Jacques, to Dr. Love and back to Fabio. It was a lot of fun.  Listen especially to the very end which shows the Euro pileup calling us... it was actually slowing down by that point... :-)  Much of the time there were so many calling it was tough to pick out a single callsign. Listen to the last ten seconds of the tape and try to pick one out... :-)

Bear in mind that Steve is in VA, Bob is in western NY and I'm in CT.

The whole game is receiving. We had some USA guys breaking in to say they couldn't hear the stations we were talking with. Steve put up a beverage today, so will be hearing even better in the future. Bob has up a double three element Yagi wire array on Europe.

Click to hear the recording made in Europe:

http://www.amwindow.org/misc/mp3/K1JJ-HUZ-ZM-DX-Tape.mp3


73,
Tom, K1JJ


Here's a listing of the stations we worked:  (We actually spent time chatting with many of the guys over the five hour session - just love talking with the enthusiatic Russians.)

GM3JUD
IW1FGY
GM3JUD
HK3GXI
GD6IA
M3LIN
G4RNK
MI3FHZ
SP5INQ
RA4CC
UT6EE
SM7JKD
US7WW
RV6CC
UT5MM
US1VQ
4L4WW
UA6LPY
DO1JW
RA6ASU
2E0KLD
UR5AS
4L4TL
LZ2VZJ
RV6LJK
HB9TVF
M1WDK
ZS6HA
EA1ASG
OM6SK
CT1QP
OK1ULN
YO8TK
2E0WXL
YU2SD
OK1HBO
S57RR
LZ1QI
RX3QP
I0MPF
UT1HA
EA6DC
OK1AGH
G3TYR
PA0YG
YO5GSB
SP3PL
OK1DCS
YU1HD
C1NNN
IK2BDR
PA2AQ
G4UFK
HA1CUB
IZ2MGN
G4FFE
F6EZ
SO8JLA
IK2DDK
OK2SSD
2W0DTR
SP6ITF
ZL1AIH
G8FMT
G3RCQ
EI6S
EA4HD
G4KHM
G4AMN
OH5LF
KH6JS

I have worked Europe a few times in the 75M DX window, but never heard pileups like that.    I usually can only receive the strongest stations and don't hear most of them, although they hear me well because of the beverages they are using.

I guess this belongs in the technical section, is there any way to get a better receive antenna for 75M DX when you don't have more than a few hundred feet on your property?

Some people swear by the K9AY loops others (and I find this one tough to accept) are keen on phased, small verticals for receive.  If I say more than this, I'm sure the thread gets moved.

Both can work well. In fact the K9AY is really just phased short verticals (as are the EWE, Penent, Flag, etc).

ZS, check out the links below. I've had great success with the K9AY. It's easy to build and needs only one support about 25-30 feet high and a about 30 feet of space on the ground. It works well on both 160 and 80 and even shows nice F/B on the high end of the broadcast band.

http://www.amwindow.org/misc/av/k9ayinactionweb.mov
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/k9ay/
http://home.comcast.net/~markwa1ion/exaol1/k9ay_ant.htm

Were you guys on AM or single slopbucket?

Hello Tom!
Often I (PE1MPH) receive AM from the USA on 3885.
This morning (by me 06.30 hours) I heard 3 stations in AM.
I think one with the call: WA1QIX
But the USA AM-ers mention their call for us European to 'fast'....
WA1QIX were very strong by me and he was talking with 2 others.
I listen on my Grundig Sat. 1400 and WA1QIX had a 5 (scale 0 - 10).
The others were around a 2 on the meter.

By the way: this morning good conditions!!
Last weeks I received only very weak signals from the USA.

And I think you know, we use 3705 often for AM in Europa?!

Greetings,

Henk, PE1MPH
Dokkum, The Netherlands

Hello Henk and All,

Yes, Henk, I've seen many of your AM reports over the years. That's a great service for us - to figure out our audio levels and effectiveness for DX contacts... tnx!

The session we had the other night was on ssb. It is the usual mode for the DX window because the window extends only about 10-15 khz wide. But we operate AM pretty much anywhere below 3775 on the phone band and look forward to chatting with your Euro group on AM..

In the tape you will notice that Steve and I have more "rag chew" ssb audio while Bob uses very punchy "DX" audio. Bob's audio surely stands out more than mine, even though my signal was louder, strength-wise. 

I plan to do some AM operations down on 3705 to talk with your Euro group soon. I need to add a shorting stub to my NE 2el Quad to tune the reflector down there. Right now it is optimized to go from 3770 to 3900. If I go below 3770 without retuning the reflector, it will beam to California rather than Europe... :-)




As for the K9AY mini loop receive antenna: Any of these receiving systems are better than a straight dipole. We need a front-back to attenuate the atmospheric noise in several directions to uncover the desired signals. It's really about reducing noise more than increasing signal strength.

The ultimate is to add a second element to the transmitting dipole (phased driven dipoles or Yagi)  and then add a second receiver and Beverage to make it a full dual diversity receiving system.  Use the bev/K9AY in one ear and the phased dipoles/Yagi in the other. It makes a tremendous difference to pulling out the weak ones. Bob/ZM and I presently use this system. Steve is working on his now.

By stretching ourselves to work the weak ones on ssb in the DX window, it makes us better at receiving the weak AM signals on the west coast or Europe on 3885, 3705, etc. About 50% of it is acquirng the receiving skills to pull the weak ones out and 50% is hardware.  Steve/HUZ has been practicing a lot lately and now has some of the best ears on the east coast, in my opinion.  ie, It's easy to transmit out a big signal using QRO, but very difficult to uncover the next layer down of weak signals on receive.

The biggest thrill for me is working some of the weak Moscow and Asiatic Russians who have NEVER worked the USA on 75M voice. Many have very modest stations and are absolutely thrilled to do it. They sometimes stutter and fall over themselves, they get so excited... ;D

For those with the room, I think the best receiving antenna for 75M is a pair of side by side beverages spaced 180' apart, 600' long, 7' high, and terminated with a ~400-600 ohm non-inductive resistor at the far end to give it a uni-directional pattern. I use that system here. Steve sent me some modelings of it and it's a tremendous pattern, sharp and clean. Next, probably a single beverage at 600' long. Then for limited room, use a pair of phased K9AY loops and then a single K9AY loop.  Though, a high, well tuned Yago or 2 el quad will often receive as well or better than the Bev antenna alone. The f-b and side rejection is what counts, as well as low angle take-off angle.  (The 600' Bev also has a low take-off angle of about 28 degrees or so, even tho it is only 7' high.)

Transmitting antennas for 75M, like single verticals and dipoles are often very noisy on receive. You have atmospheric noise from many directions.  But when you add more elements to them, like a vertical 4-square or Yagi or phased dipoles, they come to life and compete well with the specialized receiving antennas just mentioned.  The other night while receiving in diversity, I found early on the Beverages received louder, but later the Quads were dominant. The diversity system evened it out for me.

Greater height can also lower the take-off angle of the transmit antennas mentioned for better DX receiving, of course. But height is NOT needed for a Beverage or K9AY. In fact, Steve sent me a model of a short 200' long Beverage only 3' off the ground that performed quite well!  Maybe he will post some models if anyone is interested in pursuing them.

Tom, K1JJ

Tom, thanks for you info!!
But... but we often have the last weeks many SSB on 3705.
Therefore I have been not on air during a long time....
Often strong signals from the east (Russian?) around 3705.
Ofcourse we can make a 'cross-band-qso'.
I did 'such' qso for example with Ken and Brend.
Mostly every morning I listen between 06.20 - 06.55 (our time mornings).
Just before I go to my work (on my bike).
When I hear USA AM around 3885 I enjoy, because no SSB on that freq.
And Tom, AM can sounding so good.....(you know!).
When you (USA-ers) talk not to fast, I can understand... no problem.
Only big problem (not only for me....) to get clearly the calls or names.
I often asking to mention the calls 'slowly'....
Many times I note the calls on the paper and mailing this to Ken.
Ken (W2DTC) my PR-man knows often the station and tell him the big news...
Henk in Dokkum have heard you :D
I can tell you Tom, I have heard many, many stations in AM from the USA.
See: www.qrz.com then pe1mph

Oke Tom, good DX and big greetings to all AM LOVERS,

Henk, PE1MPH
Dokkum, The Netherlands

What freq were you guys on?

Was 3705 clear this morning? The K5D expedition has been using that frequency recently work work EU QSX. Earlier that band was in excellent shape. I heard many huge signals out of Europe and there was no noise here. Many Europeans working the west coast of the USA. It would have been a good morning to work AM on 3705!  Sorry I missed it.

3795 kHz.

For anyone interested, here's the horizontal and vertical patterns of a single 600' beverage compared to a pair side by side, spaced 180' apart.  Both are 7' above the ground and terminated.

The red plot is the pair of Bevs (fed in phase) and the black is the single Bev.  Notice how the pair has less side lobes, thus less noise off the sides. The horizontal pattern of the two is sharper, though the vertical pattern stays the same since we are only stacking horizontally. The take-off angle is about 25 degrees, almost perfect for low angle DX on 75M.  These would make great receiving antennas for coast to coast AM work as well.

Notice these radiation patterns look as good as any 6 element Yagi at 1/2 wavelength above ground.   Beverages are tremendous receiving antennas for the low bands considering what it would cost in time and money to put up its transmitting counterpart.

Thanks to Steve/HUZ for making these models available.

T

Hi Tom,  Steve,  all ..

Listened to you guys for about hours running EU in Tag-Team fashion  ('twas a rainy/windy night).  Sounded like a lotta fun !   Here in CA,  our EU opening happens much later.  Think that I quit listening at about 1:00 AM ES,  and the pile was still going strong.  It is a kick listening to what FB antennas can do.

From DXScape DX spotting Database:        http://www.dxscape.com/index.html

K1JJ          09/02/22 0649Z   3795.0 59 in SP8                       SQ8JLA   
K1JJ          09/02/22 0605Z   3795.0 with company wking europe       IZ2MGN   
K1JJ          09/02/22 0436Z   3795.0 59 ++ in YO                     YO8TK     

Conditions on 75/80 have been FB in the past three weeks or so.

73,  Have Fun       Vic

Listening around 3795 most of this evening...304s tuned up.

A simple prayer:
"Thank you, Harris, for the BC-5 modulation transformer, and thank you, Peter Dahl, for the 1985 tape-wound BC-1 plate supply transformer..And thank you, Eimac for the Nonex-Pyrex glass quad triode 304 radar modulator.."

WOW!
R4 copy on a PA0 on about 3798 SSB.
6:50 PM MST.
I have never heard Europe here on 75 before.

HA HA!   Glad you're hearing so well out there, Bill. With that 2-half waves in phase at 140' high, you will do very well. Add a set of end to end reflectors behind it and you'll be a channelmaster!  A 30 to 40' piece of alum irrigation pipe suspended at the top wud make a great boom support to hang the inv vees.
Then string the Bev NNE on that big property of yours, caw mawn.

Keep listening to get used to the band. Try some calls to see what you can work. You should be able to work the UK stations many nights during the winter.  The Russians, MidEast and others will be more selective.

I usually don't get on much in the week, but this weekend I'll be sure to look for you and set something up. It's always a good lure to have a guy on freq from the west for the Euros to stretch for. We'll do it again Fri or Sat night.


** Vic/K6IC -  I'm surprised you were hearing us so well out in Calif.  It's flattering you would take the time to listen for as long as you did to the action. Did you hear any of the Europeans at that time?

Later on we switched west for the ZL station and let a Calif station in there to work him too.  So we could have talked. Next time break in and we'll see if we can get you to make a few contacts into Eur.

I did hear a guy on from Senegal, (central)  Africa tonight. 6V7P... pretty rare.  What a huge pileup from USA and Europe.

Tonight I'm working on the new amp, so no radio TX, just listening.

Later -

T

 When you can hear EU on SSB, it's probably good for east coast AM action!

Dino, WA1GFZ works the EU stations often from his Tuscon location. He has some phased vertical and no special receive antenna. With your TX antenna, and IIRC, you have a beverage, you could work EU too. Many of those guys get pretty fired up when the 6, 7 and 0 land stations show up. You would be the DX! HA.

OE6MBG was working the west coast of the USA last night.  The MP3 at the link below shows how loud he was when I worked him.

http://www.amwindow.org/misc/mp3/oe6mbg23feb090525z3793.mp3

Steve...the K9AY really has no lower frequency limit on directivity as long as the transformer works at the lower frequencies. The large scale K9AY in use here for 500 and 137 kHz functions just as well (20 - 25 dB F/B) at 60 kHz, 24 kHz and below.

Consider that a two wavelength long beverage on 137 kHz (roughly equivalent to 600' on 3.5 MHz) would be about 2.7 miles long!

http://www.w1vd.com/k9ay11.pdf (http://www.w1vd.com/k9ay11.pdf)



 

Never tried mine that low. Makes sense though. I guess the only thing that changes is the gain/output. What sort of preamp do you need at that frequency? I see yours is about twice a large as the "standard" model. How high in frequency does the pattern hold?

Some info on the K9AY at HUZ Radio. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page.

http://www.amwindow.org/misc/lakehouse/antennas.htm

Steve...the pattern of a loop antenna falls apart as it approaches 1/8 wavelength. With the BIG K9AY that's 820 kHz. Have local 610 and a 1080 kHz in line with the antenna. 610 shows just about 20 dB F/B but 1080 is down to around 6 dB F/B.

I've always wanted to try a two mile beverage on 137 kHz. Thought about doing it (temporary setup) up at the lake but run the risk of snagging a snowmobile or two.

Preamplifier info:

http://www.w1vd.com/LFMFpreamplifier.pdf (http://www.w1vd.com/LFMFpreamplifier.pdf)

Good stuff. Thanks Jay.

Hey Tom,

First,   my existing remote station is modest,   so,  it takes very good conditions for me to work EU on 75/80 M.  We do get a Long Path opening some Winter mornings,  which can be fun.   When I get a chance to develop the ridge portion of the property,   things should be better.

The current location is very quiet,  as it is very low density,  and miles off-grid.  Liightning static can be significant,  so an RX antenna would help a lot.

Tom,   Steve was a bit louder than you,  which made sense,  as Steve's antenna was a DP @ 75 feet,  and I assume was bidirectional.

I heard only a few of the stations calling,   with 3 exceptions.   The few that I heard were just muffled whispers.   The ZS,  however,   was great copy (this is a much easier path here).

Think that I will not be breaking-in any time soon.  Do enjoy listening to someone running a pile.  Especially nice when it is someone that I am kinna acquainted with.  Am sure that it is a real kick to hear the pile,  and have them calling you(z) !   Am more of a DXer than anything else,  but need to go to 20 M CW to get a pile of weak EU stations calling -- it is a kick,  and as you said,  there are layers,  and some of them seem happy to work a "6" !

73  Have fun,   and looks like you guys have inspired some more low-band DXers.     Vic

I hear ZS6CCY, South Africa, on 3799 right now.  S8 on my G5RV.

http://home.earthlink.net/~cherokeehillfarm/id4.html

Yea, Bill straps. He is running a nice four square array.

Sounds like you've been playing the DXing game for a while and know the score, Vic!

Yes, running a pileup is a thrill. Being that the USA is not a very rare contact, it takes other things to get them going. Working across the pond on 75M and looking especially for the weaker DX stations is the nitche and lure.  I try to focus on pulling out the DX guys who rarely work the USA, and there's plenty on 75M.

Over the years there's been a number of AMers who've been turned on to working DX in the 75M window. When some get a taste of it, they get bit hard... :-)    But it does take the effort to put up a good receiving antenna and work on the receiving skills. If someone tries to do it with a low dipole for both TX and RX, they usually get bored quickly and go away.  Just like racing cars, when someone starts to develop an edge on the field, it becomes more fun and challenging to catch up with the top dogs.  Steve, Bob and I are making an effort to get guys interested as much as possible. The more the merrier.

Good on your 20M CW activities. That is really the premier DX band.  I put up a pair of stacked homebrew 20M Yagis and have made only about 10 contacts so far for testing - in six years. Works like a bomb into Eur and stateside. Gotta get on there more. They're wide spaced, at 50' and 100' high  -  300 pounds each on 60' booms, fed in phase. They're mounted on a 190' self-supporting tower. I hope to get up there more often as the band opens up again.  Here's a coupla shots below. The pics are deceiving - they are HUGE!  I remember one day Steve/HUZ, Gary/INR, John/JN and I struggled to carry each one about 30' to get them ready to raise. We ended up tripping and almost dropping one of them...  I designed and built them too strapping, but they held up well in the ice storms...  The elements are all floating on fiberglass - no direct connections to the boom for more tuning/modeling  accuracy.

Hope to catch ya on soon, OM.

73,

Tom, K1JJ

WOW,  those 6 el 20's sure look nice !  They should play well.  20 is getting better,  now that we are out of the Winter doldrums.

The low bands are the real challenge,  and would like to play there.   Hope to have something better for next season.

C U on the bands ... We've worked on 75 SSB,  and on 10 M AM.  On 10,  you had the stack of 3ea C3's -- this had to be 8 or so years ago.

73  and we will be reading the mail in the West.    Vic

Thanks, Vic.

Yes, I seem to remember working you back on 10M when the last cycle was at its peak.

Here's a shot (bottom) of the 10M system we worked you on back then...

Check my previous post - I reposted  the pics from a better camera - forgot I had them...

(I'm in a picture posting mood tonight... :-) )

Take care -

Tom, K1JJ

Hey, you got one of those 1x2 DX calls. When are we gonna here you in there?   ;D

Just to drag out this thread a bit more ..

Yes it is great to hear just how the pile sounds from the other side.  Something that we rarely hear.

Would also be nice to see just how the  pile sounds to you guys on this side as well,  but,  Tom Steve and others in these tag-teams are probably too modest to do that.  It would be a kick to hear,  tho.

Sorry that I missed Tom's alter-egos.  Jacque is a kick !

Now for the derailment of the thread :

So Tom,  you seem to have a number of LARGE towers,  and build a lotta antennas.

1.  What towers are you using ? ...  the one with the 20 M HB antenna stack on it,  for example ?

2.  What tower(s) are  used for UR  Quad Array(s) @ 190-feet ?

3.  How do you find the time to do ALL of this work ?

That 6M stackk is amazing ... would take me years just to plan something like that !   Know that having a lot of experience doing this kind of work does help.

These questions have been rattleing around in my head for some time,  could probably have PMed you,  but perhaps there are others here who have similar wonderments.

73    Vic

Tom is independently wealthy (made money holding get rich in real estate seminars) and never sleeps.

I'll make a recording or two this weekend so you can hear how EU sounds on the East Coast. BTW, worked Lebanon last night.

NOW!

00.00 hour by me (The Netherlands)
I hear AM from USA on 3885.
Station with the call W2NBC and W2DTC.
I hear more, but they are weak...

Gretings,

PE1MPH :D

Henk,

Guy, W1FRM will get a kick outa hearing he made it into Europe on AM this early in the evening!  He usually runs a modest 100W or less at this time of the day.


Vic:

The two 190'ers are retired self supporting AM broadcash towers I got real cheap. Two others are guyed Rohn 45's that were used and taken down for free from commercial installations.  One 150' guyed Rohn I installed new in 1986.

I work rather fast when I build stuff. I focus 100% and don't waste time, so most projects get knocked out quickly. I put up most all the antennas myself, without help, except for certain exceptions.  Not having to depend on others for help certainly speeds things up. It's amazing how much you can accomplish yourself if you plan it out well.

The aluminum for the Yagis came from scrap yards at about $1 / pound before prices took off.  What you are seeing in the pics is about 20 years of evolution at this QTH. There are at least three times as many antennas that I have tested and taken down to recycle into new antennas. Back in 1987 I went through an 18,000'  roll of antenna wire trying every antenna config I could think of on my 150' tower. It took about 2 years to go thru it all and needed more wire... ;D

At this point I've not changed any antennas in maybe three years and haven't lost any either from ice, winds, etc. So, guess I'm satisfied with the installation and will focus more on the shack and sailing in the future.

I'll look to make some pileup recordings too. Haven't ever done it and it would be a scream to post some here.

Thanks for the interest, Vic!

Tom, K1JJ

Hi Steve,  Tom,

RE Seminars !  Teriffic !

Would love to hear some of the pile-up recordings from UR side(s).  Thanks.

And,  Tom,  thanks for the tower?antenna  info.   Still amazin'  to me.

73  Thanks & Have Fun.       Vic

Tom and I got on in the DX Window again last night. A few of the pile-ups included below.

Hi Steve,  Tom,

Heard you guys in there last night (here) for a good long time.   Am currently in town,  and the noise is S9 here -- swithcing gizmos,  lighting,  and TV sets sure tore up the band.  Heard none of the stations that U guys were working.

Thank you very much Steve,  for posting the MP3's of the piles.  Boy those EU signals sure are loud there !

73  Have Fun,  and thanks again.   Vic

Great recordings, Steve!

It sounds like bedlam.

Steve, Bob/ZM and I are in there again tonight. Maybe Steve will post a few more.

We're having too much fun tonight.

Too bad about the QRN there, Vic.

Later -

T

Lots of fun again last night.

Not all the EU sigs are loud. Here's a 10 watter from the UK. He was in the noise on the dipole, but Q5 on the Beverage and K9AY.

And then the lead singer of U2 showed up.

uuhhhhh....this focusing 100% you speak of.....can I borrow a cup of it, please?  :-\

wife sez I focus on 10 things at a time and give each little tasklet about 25% in turn.  :'( I have no doubt she's right.

So is Hawaii. Here's KH7XS last night.

http://www.amwindow.org/misc/mp3/kh7xs3mar090636z3790.mp3

JJ straps. What's new?

I'll bet that was Brentina  goofing on us with his fake transvestite voice...    ;D

Could be. But Brentina was never that loud.

Buddly working the DX!

Buddly being swarmed by the sounds at the end there.

TNX OM for bringing this thread back up to the surface. Finally got to listen to the clips with the new 'net connection. Youse guys really boom in over there. Makes me wanna break out the FRC-93 or the 380. Probably should get the ants up first.

So Tom is now Jacques and no longer Fabio? Guess that would make him Jacques LeVu?  ;D

Might be Pepe LePew next time!

Once you get the 'tenners up you can jump in. It's a nice diversion. Never a dull moment when Jacque shows up.

Nice recording, especially working the EW.

Are you recording yourself into a mike rather than ssb off the RX?  Sounds much better that way.  RF overload is always a problem otherwise.

T

Or perhaps the notorious Jacques LePhlegm?


It's amazing how good you guys sound on SSB, as well as the strapping sigs. Brings back a lot of memories from the DX days of the 80s. I'm planning to get there early enough Thursday so that we can get some good radio time in at your FB station.

I'd forgotten about the Fabio card and the gay 6m crowd, PT cruisers, and the rest...  ;)

Off the RX. If it was off the mic it would sound MUCH better. The monitor out works well for this. You can even hear rrrrrrrrrradio.