The AM Forum

What's with the Super Bowl half-time acts lately. It's like someone opened up the doors of the geriatric ward. First it was the Rolliing Stones, old and looking twenty years older. These dudes have done anything worthwhile since the 80's. Last year it's Tom Petty. My  grandmother looks younger than him and she sings better too. And she's dead. And this year it's Springsteen? Break out the wheel chairs and the Depends. Nothing more pathetic than an over the hill semi-rocker trying vainly to relive the past. Oh, and I forgot McCartney, another washed up loser.

Bring back Up With People. It was better than this crap.

I would bet there is plenty of room on the 75 meter band for operating right now.  Maybe those half time shows are to get some of the idiots off the radio for 4-5 hours.

By the way, I resemble that old part, but don't need depends or a wheel chair.  In fact I am so old that I remember Ivory Joe Hunter.

http://www.tsimon.com/hunter.htm

Hi Steve,  I know what you mean. the word  B-O-R-I-N-G comes to mind.  Gee, will The Boss do some political preaching too?  Oh,don't forget Aerosmith performing at one of the recent Super Bowls.  BTW, I done gots me another Gretsch.

No chance for a wardrobe malfunction.

Wouldn't wanna see one on Loose Bedsprings( or is it Bruce Springsteen) anyway.

 

ARRGGuh!!!

What is this "Super Bowl" of which you speak?

It's made of ceramic, glass, metal or wood, with a brass screen at the bottom so the stuff stays conveniently clumped together and prevents you from sucking ashes down into your lungs when you take a hit.

I thought that was what the water was for  8)

It's a sort of a radio contest on 27.135MHz, here in the south. Mostly a subcultural activity from what I can understand. Goes on all the time, but grows when the skip is good. Loudest signal that is intelligible enough to copy the handle, he rules! It's like an ARRL SSB contest but substituting old 100W SSB rigs in AM mode, with one or more linears in series with each other, plates running bright orange, and with no operating practices except making the most "bird watts". The object of the game is to talk over everyone else. Most of the super bowl players keep a case of "pull" finals next to the desk, beside the optional fire extinguisher, for quick access.

Now, don't confuse this with this wierd thing on TV. That, - it is just a silly festival of some kind where advertisers show off their work.

Oh well Steve......a few of us old F**ts enjoyed it, even though some won't admit it.  Don't care much for his politics , but the Boss rocks!

73,  Jack, W9GT

Didn't watch the stupor bowl.  Could careless.  I used to love following pro football but no more because it has morphed into something that bugs me big time.  As luck would have it anyway, the satellite dish crapped out right around the start of the pre-game show.

I couldn't agree more.     The whole pile of 'em are over the hill.  And Springsteen! Puh-leeze!  A poseur if there ever was one!       His music has always grated on my nerves.  Bah to the lot of them!  >:(

Ed, I could not say it better myself!  If he comes on the radio, I cannot hit the station select button fast enough.   I once received a Springsteen CD as a gift.  Never opened it.  A few years later I decided to send it as a gift to a "deserving" soul.  Same goes for Hall and Oates.  Rather listen to SlobBucketers...

Don't forget U2 back in 2001. They were big in the 80s before going the corporate rock route. But when you think about it Steve - who or what do they have to choose from today? Rap crap or ? Granted, there are some very talented musicians out there today but unfortunately, few if any are known to the masses. And that's who they cater to. Just remember - Springsteen is the BOSS! *cough* Still easier to listen to than Eminem or... Disco! 


LOL! It's a money generator for NBC this year, one of their very few. Doubt it'll help GE's bottom line much, though. Only a few of the ads were even funny of the ones I saw. My wife watched halftime and the second half after getting home late from a busy work weekend involving several speeches. She hadn't even gotten comfortable when the phone rang. It was 'PJP just checking in for an update and some radio talk. We talked for the better part of an hour. After I hung up she said 'what kinda guy calls another guy during the Super Bowl?' to which I replied 'A smart one'. She just looked at me funny.   ;D

Sure wish AZ had won it for Warner. From bagging groceries to multiple Superbowl visits.

Janet Jackson was a hard act to follow.

I didn't even glance at the tube last evening.  Noticed 75m, both AM and slopbucket, were unusually devoid of activity, even while condx were still good.  Later in the evening (or early in the morning) I attempted to carry on a QSO with Steve, QIX and Vin WN1S in RI, but the T-storm activity in the Gulf of Mexico had built up in intensity and rendered summer-like QRN conditions on all the bands, so I finally gave up and did some reading instead.

Yawn...So who won?
Dave Made or Worldwide?
I'm still waiting for Spinal Tap

It's down the hall and to the left. Please flush when you're done.

Rob W1AEX

 Ya know Steve on this point agree, I don't know for the life of me Why any of these older bands even show up.. Bruce is an Entertainer...Not a Singer...His thing always was like that...I liked his early day Live shows...but that's a long time ago OM..

  I Kinda like the Bald headed Kid Kenny Chezzney...LOL... They can make mine Country any time now...Lot of decent young acts there to be had...as far as Country is concerned...more or less..

 But nobody can say the game was handed to Pittsburgh This time...They Earned it...

73
Jack.


 

Tom,

Let me answer that: Who gives a damn.

Let them adopt capitalism, climb out of their socialist/communist fever swamps and begin to reap the rewards of our blueprint for prosperity. Until they do, may they just shut up.

To paraphrase a great lyricist, they care not to come up any higher but rather get you down in the hole that they're in.

 

Steve......now thats a loaded question if I ever heard one!!!!!
Opinions are like a** holes, everybody has one.
So u wanna hear rap-hiphop.......or maybe that fat idiot Limbaugh??????

JMHO......... ::)
Bill 

I enjoyed it but I got paid to watch it.

Yup...I enjoyed it also..........
FWIW..........The Boss had the whole stadium on their feet having a hell of a time!
Maybe next year they should check with Steve before they book the half time act.... ;)

Bill

QUOTE:
Wouldn't wanna see one on Loose Bedsprings( or is it Bruce Springsteen) anyway

How's about Nicky Badwires???????/
Fred

No, just not some washed up has been. There's nothing more pathetic than an over the hill rocker trying to relive the 1970s. Sad. And then to put it along side the youth and power of the football players makes it seem even more ridiculous. If these guys were the act at some nursing home, then OK, it makes sense.

You geezers have fun watching. None of the crap for me.

The stupid bowl is a major production for TV and nothing else. Got to blame the idiots who put this programming together for what appears. Maybe Springsteen was better than the dreck that's prevalent today as far as ratings go. All the more reason I cannot watch pro football  and the stupid bowl or any mainstream pro sports.   According to the TV listings there was a 6 hour pre-game show. Now come on, talk about overboard. That should be a clue, then to put the game on at 6pm.  The good ole days the game was on mid afternoon with a 1 to 2 hr pre-game show and what was delivered was far more meaningful than todays delivery.

My fartoverite of the whole show was 'andy' Rooney standing beside the players and coach in the post game interview.  Were it not for his money and good standing I"d almost feel sorry for him.  I understand the torch is being passed, however, to his brothers and sons.

That interview is fitting of the whole age dichotomy and as mentioned very 'embletic' (Bushism # 5103 in a series*) contrast.
 
*Say what you want about George, his (SAT's & GPA"s higher than Gores) vocabulary could always be called upon for extra duty.

Risking a flurry of vitriol, I like the Steelers and thought the fourth quarter was thrilling.

Notice how all the newspaper ads for big screen TV's show a bunch of guys watching football, like you aren't an authentic American if you don't have interest in the game.

In our house, my wife is the football fan; I couldn't give a damn less.  And she watches football on her own without my company, just as I play radio on my own without hers.

I much preferred the wardrobe malfunction.

Marie Antoinette said it more eloquently:  "Let them eat cake."

Time to turn off the AM talk radio and take a look at the real world.

Flush Rush and the doo-doo heads.

Exactly. Now THAT's entertainment.

naw them goobers, the serious ones, use tubular stuff, up to and probably surpassing several 3-500Z's in parallel driven by something with four 811's in it driven by an FT-101 or the like.

There was one fellow across the street doing this for a while till he had a stroke and couldn't say anything but nayma-nayma-nayma.. seriously. But it didn't stop him much. Just gave him more time to do it. He would get into the radio room with his walker and magage to tune it all up and start saying "nayma-nayma-nayma.." at about 600 watts.

When the Channel 15 Super Bowl would come back and start bithcing, he'd stomp the foot pedal on the floor and smack 'em with 3KW carrier and 100% downward modulation. Back-modulating, he called it. That is the correct CB term IIRC.

I know the power level because in my foolish transmitterless days before he had the stroke I went over there and fixed his amplifier (burnt relay). I regretted that for some time, having no cable TV, not that it would have helped, and after the stroke he'd get on and just rip the tv, stereo, and everything else to pieces.

nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-nayma-..... till the plates were yellow. I am not making fun of this, it is sad, but also in his old and decrepit condition he didn't really care if he annoyed people on the radio.

A couple years after he died I cleaned out his CB shack.

The pinnacle of power was the remains of a gutted and shoddily rebuilt Chippewa there with three paralleled 4-400's in GG, all plates with holes melted in them (I did not know you could do that with a 4-400 and have it still work), a single-band L-network of copper tubing using only a (huge) loading cap, and the separate power supply was JS'd up with a Dahl transformer and made 4500V. I had seen that setup peg the bird with the 3KW slug and it had a clothes dryer plug on the cord with #6 wire. All HV terminals exposed! But they were well insulated from 40 years of cigar smoke.

The driver was the heathkit amp with two 3-500Z's.
The predriver was the heathkit amp with the 4 811's.
The TX was a globe champion 300.
- and there was also a heathkit Apache and Mohawk. All in deplorable filthy trashed condition and not working. I picked it all up from the wife as parts for $250 because she wanted it gone and for whatever reason didn't trust the nephew to sell it. I did not get the 3KW Bird wattmeter, as the nephew insisted it was worth $500 by itself and that it belonged to him, not the old man. I don't know what he ever got for it. It was not present at the time I loaded out the stuff.

The fellow, "A. B.", was his initials, had the handle "African Bandit". He tuned up the rigs, tuning each one for maximum power in order. First getting the GC to do its 150 watts or so, then keying the 811 amp and adjusing it, then keying and adjusting the next, and so on. These were adjusted into the antenna, not into the following amp, so who knows what the real loading was. He was well-known in the Super Bowl or claimed to be, and used to tell stories about the FCC sending someone out and him running them off, claiming the station had no license therefore the FCC had no business with him, stories about other CB operators threatening to come over to shoot him, him running someone off with a shotgun, all kinds of crazy stuff. Quite a character may he rest in peace.

I hope this explains more about the super bowl and the players.

Previous comments:

"Time to turn off the AM talk radio and take a look at the real world."

"Let them adopt capitalism, climb out of their socialist/communist fever swamps and begin to reap the rewards of our blueprint for prosperity."

------------

  

hmmmm... "...reap the rewards of our blueprint of prosperity" ... and the "real world " ?  


The "blueprint of prosperity" (the USA's economic system) is in debt for over $60 TRILLION  - direct and indirect obligations -   and some of this debt is held by other countries..

Please allow me rephrase my statement:  I sometimes wonder what the USA's CREDITOR or third world countries think when they see our over-the-top celebrations as we continue to spend like cheap pimps - with our businesses falling like dominos.  (Foreign countries are in as much - or more trouble than we are)

Yeah, yeah, I know... who cares what they think?



To put it in perspective, what does a stack of $60 TRILLION dollars look like? (The "real world")


Take a stack of tightly stacked $1000 bills.  Tie a string around them and put the pile on its side.

$1 million dollars reaches only 4" wide.

$1 Billion  reaches 333'.

$1 Trillion dollars reaches 63 miles

$60 Trillion reaches 3,780 miles of tightly stacked $1000 bills! That's over 700 miles wider than the USA. You'd have to drive for days at 100 mph to pass all those tightly stacked $1000 bills.  

And WE (you and me) owe it to someone.


That's the current financial status of the "blueprint for prosperity." (Which, BTW,  I believe is still the BEST system in the world - until we design something better)  I still think that if the last four presidents/administrations all used extreme frugal economic ethics like Jimmy Carter tried to do, as ineffective as he was, we wouldn't be in this pickle.

So, instead, $60 Trillon's the "real world."  It don't get much realer than that.   :-)

T

WOW, look at this beauty. I betcha I could bullseye this baby from the doorway, no problem. Gonna have to store this one in the spank bank for later. :P

(http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=18519.0;attach=10214;image)

little bitta word play.


It's almost funny, but sad, how so many things in this life are easily interchanged. ;)

My wife is older than me and dragged me to one of Frank Sinatra's last concerts.  Talk about geezer. He couldn't remember some of the words to his own songs.  It was painful to watch.

 It all boils down to management OM, 60 Trillion why not 80 Trillion 100 Trillion add up what One Aircraft Carrier goes through in a day resource wise...we have how many Carrier groups on the open seas, just as an example...what is and what isn't important..

 In the over all analysis what is being done from using outside resources is the correct move, always use someone elses money...LOL.....any money manager will tell ya that..never use your own cash for anything always ...LOL...

 But you have to maintain the Gall to do it and succeed ...in this country we got plenty of that..... ;D LOL....................

Nobody Bailed out Pittsburgh when the Steel mills left...and Pittsburgh is still here..and there are quite a number of business's thriving quite nicely...

and we're Silly Amelikans... ;D

Marie Antoinette said it more eloquently:  "Let them eat cake."

[/quote]

No,  Let Them Taste Freedom

Rush? Who mentioned Rush?

The "Blueprint" I refer to was fashioned by Jay, Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton and Madison as well as Adam Smith.

Socialism is "where nations go to die". Our annual deficits & national debt are largely the result of  excursions down that feel good socialist highway.

The latest/greatest turn in that direction is TARP & the currently debated "STIMULUS".  They may turn out to be one way roads to the graveyard.

could have been worse.  could have been nancy!

When the Channel 15 Super Bowl would come back and start bithcing, he'd stomp the foot pedal on the floor and smack 'em with 3KW carrier and 100% downward modulation. Back-modulating, he called it. That is the correct CB term IIRC.


The pinnacle of power was the remains of a gutted and shoddily rebuilt Chippewa there with three paralleled 4-400's in GG, all plates with holes melted in them (I did not know you could do that with a 4-400 and have it still work), a single-band L-network of copper tubing using only a (huge) loading cap, and the separate power supply was JS'd up with a Dahl transformer and made 4500V. I had seen that setup peg the bird with the 3KW slug and it had a clothes dryer plug on the cord with #6 wire. All HV terminals exposed! But they were well insulated from 40 years of cigar smoke.


The info above was a quote from OPCOMM
I have to figure out how to QUOTE posts........sorry



There's an engineer out West who designs huge amplifiers for these guys/CBers/fried brains. They have radio face-offs to see who can make the most power and or the loudest signal. They usually have HUGE diesel SUV's and extra alternators for the extra juice to generate literally thousands of watts. Can you imagine the RF exposure to 27 mhz just inches away from the human body????

Fred

Lot of young whippersnappers are paying +$100 to see the old geezer at Penn State:
http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/story/1095947.html

Can you say "sterilize yourself"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996452407910943036

If that actually made sense, it might be funny. Who is trying to relive the 1960's?

Excellent point. The $60T debt is ridiculous. But I say even if you take away the debt and any of the short-term benefits we derived, our standard of living would still be well beyond most of the rest of the world. There's a reason people are going through hell to get to this country, most doing it illegally. The reason is that their home country sucks.

There was nothing else to do...

Juvenal said it more clearly:

… Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses.

                                                     (Juvenal, Satire 10.77–81)

(Emphasis added)
(Quote is from Wikipedia: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses))

Wasn't really intended to be funny. I was trying to show how a statement like that can be changed ever so slightly and be applied to anything. As far as hams stuck in the 60's, there's nowhere to begin. Being a low class 5wpm loser ham with a license only 5 years old, I've had my fair share of geezers shoot me down off the air solely based on the fact that I wasn't born in 1930. This is my reason for coming to AM in the first place as it's a better class of operators and most everyone is always arms open instead of gates closed. That wasn't intended to be a personal dig, not by any means.

J

Anyone remember the 1970s: double-digit inflation, double-digit unemployment, and double-digit interest rates? The Superbowls were played then. Hell, they played the World Series every year through out the Great Depression. We just spent 400 million on a presidential inauguration. Life goes on.

Hey, you are the future of ham radio. Anyone who shoots you down because of some silly Morse Code test is stuck in the past, not to mention just plain stupid. And yes, there are tons of hams like this, so upon reflection, your word game is more on the mark than I first thought. Good one!

I wonder....   70,000 watts/ 746 (bird watts) = 93.8 (Bird) horsepower....

Them thar enjens must be reel eficient to powar all them pills hammer doun

Thanks. For me, I have a pretty thick skin, so the old timers never really get to me. There's such a wealth if info to be had, that I make it a practice to keep the peace and listen. Until I find a decent lot somewhere on a hill to slap a house on, I'm stuck in the upper bands on this postage stamp I live on anyway. (Only get to operate 80 once and a while and forget 160, maybe if I knocked down some of the neighbors houses and replaced them with wire, haha.)

Now don't forget your CB math now. A bird watt times the root of the human watt divided by the quantity of alternators, plus the content of said ingested alcohol equal approx 2.46 watts. So in other words, a 100hW (human watts) pill is totally capable of 246bW..

Yep, good point, Steve -  the World Series was played through the Great Depression. 

The world  needs SOMEBODY to lead the way and fight a good fight when the global economic adversity gets tough. Might as well be the USA.   It's something like the guys carrying the bagpipes in the front lines, leading their Scotish brothers into battle.... :-)

Lets all hope for the best. Keep a close eye on the stock market for clues when we are about to turn up again. The stock indices have historically been the best leading indicator of economic direction for 6 months into the future. Though, right now, they continue to say we still have some rough sledding ahead.

BTW, I was thinking the other day - I'm concerned  how the ARRL will make out over the next few years.  I'll bet their corporate portfolio (which was heavily weighted in stocks the last time I looked in 2003) is getting beat up.  Think I'll  take a close look at their next corporate report when it comes out.  Many not-for-profits are having a tough time or are biting the dust these days.


T

Socialism? could that be where the last $5T went....don't think so.

Fred - hit the quote button in the upper right hand corner of the post you wish to quote and it will quote the post automatically.

If you want to quote a paragraph from an article, simply enclose in "quote"   "/quote"  with []'s around quote and /quote

Yep. Historically, (this includes many bear markets over 200 years) there has never been a period when the USA was able to buy its way out of a major economic downturn. It has always run its course - it just takes time.

Many contend that stimulus packages make the situation even worse and delay the recovery.  Maybe it will be different this time.... :-)  Hope so.

T

Agreed!

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the mechanism by which the gov't. action of taking (by force) a $1.00 from citizen A , deducting a $.20 handling charge & handing the remaining $.80 to citizen B "stimulates" the economy (other than the cheap liquor segment of course).


 

Yep! All the indicators seem to point to a long rough road ahead.


Look at the items below from the ARRL Director's meeting in January 2009. I would suspect that will be a number a belt-tightening expense objectives embedded within a number of these items for 2009 and beyond. The complete 2008 Annual Report, with all the financial information, generally is published some time in June.

"10. Mr. McCobb updated the Board on the status of ARRL investments with emphasis on the strategies and reasoning behind how he executes his job as Treasurer. In common with the rest of the world, the ARRL’s portfolio lost value during the year.

13. Mr. Shelley expanded on the written report of the Chief Financial Officer adding that from his point of view the year was a good one for ARRL, with revenues meeting overall expectations except for voluntary contributions. He then gave a presentation explaining IRS’s updated Form 990, which is essentially a new form with new rules for reporting for non-profit organizations.

23. Mr. Fenstermaker expanded upon the written report of the Administration and Finance Committee. After discussion, on motion of Mr. Fenstermaker, seconded by Mr. Frahm, the Board VOTED at 9:25 AM to meet as a Committee of the Whole to discuss personnel matters, with only non-staff officers, Directors, Mr. Sumner and Mr. Shelley present. At 11:12 AM, the Committee of the Whole arose and reported to the Board. On motion of Mr. Bellows, seconded by Mr. Edgar it was VOTED to accept the report.

          24. On motion of Mr. Fenstermaker, seconded by Mr. Bellows, it was VOTED that the 2009-2010 Plan, as amended and presented by the Administration and Finance Committee be adopted.

          25. On motion of Mr. Bodson, seconded by Mr. Mileshosky, it was VOTED that the Whistleblower policy as recommended by the Administration and Finance Committee be adopted.

          26. On motion of Dr. Weaver, seconded by Mr. Bellows, it was VOTED that the following resolution be adopted:

    In accordance with the recommendation of the Administration and Finance Committee regarding the establishment of a 403(b) pension plan for the staff of the ARRL,

    BE IT RESOLVED that ARRL is authorized to take any necessary actions to implement the company’s 403(b) Plan, (herein referred to as the “Plan”).

    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that ARRL accepts the appointment of Reliance Trust Company as Custodian for the Plan, the appointment of The Standard as the Plan’s recordkeeper, and authorizes the creation of a written plan document.

    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that The Standard, the Plan’s recordkeeper, shall be authorized to deliver all instructions from ARRL relating to Plan contributions, investments and distributions to Reliance Trust Company, and The Standard shall be fully protected in relying on such instructions.

    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the following individuals will be authorized to act on behalf of ARRL: David Sumner, Chief Executive Officer; and Barry J. Shelley, Chief Financial Officer.

            27. On motion of Mr. Mileshosky, seconded by Mr. Bellows, it was VOTED that the ARRL Board of Directors approves a capital expenditure of $134,500, as recommended by the Administration and Finance Committee for Phase III of the project to complete the new ARRL web site.

          28. On motion of Mr. Fenstermaker, seconded by Dr. Weaver, it was VOTED that the ARRL Board of Directors approves the implementation of a brokerage account at Credit Suisse Securities for the purpose of trading securities for the ARRL portfolio."

The  last economic stimulus package that got us out of the Great Depression was WW2.

At the end of that war the US federal debt was well above the total GDP, something over 120%.

After the war, the debt stayed about the same through about 1970, while the GDP steadily climbed, until the debt only amounted to about a third of GDP.

Starting in about 1970 the gross debt began a  steep uphill climb, partially as a result of inflation as the dollar evolved into the dollarette, and partially the result of increases in real spending, following the VietNam war, in which we tried to have guns and butter at the same time, without calling on the public to make WW2 type sacrifices.

The increase in gross debt rose at a steady rate until 2000, hovering in the vicinity of 65% of GDP.

Starting in 2000, the gross national debt rose sharply, but so did the GDP, keeping the debt at about 65% GDP.

At present the gross national debt as a percentage of GDP is about half what it was immediately following WW2.

Since the gross debt and GNP are both on the order of tens of trillion $$, the current one trillion or so combined bail-out and stimulus extravaganza are unlikely to have any more effect than the New Deal, which helped some people a little, but it took the war to stimulate us out of the depression.

Will it take another major war to get us out of the present-day mess, and would it be physically possible for it to do so?  Could the  planet's resources support the kind of growth in gross worldwide product that occurred during and immediately after WW2?  Could the infrastructure in the US support doubling the GDP in a short period of time?  And could we stand the human costs of a major war?

http://www.swivel.com/

Good info. History is important. Some would argue that WWII didn't necessarily help the economy. Rather the economy had taken its lumps and was ready to turn around. The war coincided and probably sped things up drastically. Where the war really helped was after it was over. Our economy was cranked up and the rest of the world was pretty much destroyed. We lived off that fat situation for a few decades. By the 70's it caught up to us and we've been in a downward spiral since. So, long term, the war was bad.

Another thing to note from that time was that the so called crash happened in 1929. The New Deal started in 1932. Yet things were just as bad in 1938 as they were in 1932. And the economy didn't come around until the early 40's. That's over ten years. We all want to think our current problem(s) will be over in a few years. Hopefully, but it could easily be a decade. Don't be fooled by all the hand waving and stimulus packages.

*Note: After I posted, I see Steve already beat me to the punch... :-)


Don,

I'd agree with your complete post except for the interpretation of the statement above.

The 1929 depression EFFECTS really went on into 1938, though the stock market bottomed in July, 1932, if I remember cvorrectly.  The economy was ready to rally and recover sharply by the time WWII  started. It would have anyway, war or no war. The 1930's debt liquidation had run its course and it was time.

It's my opinion that wars do nothing to add REAL value to the economy. They just destroy, kill good men and build bombs, missles and useless stuff that adds nothing to the infrastructure, services or benefits. Very short lived.  It makes jobs, but that's about all.  Might as well throw dollars out of a helicopter to the people instead.

The only reason the USA did well during WWII is because the destruction did not take place on our own land. Look at Germany and Japan to get an idea of what war does to a country's economy.  The same holds true for WWI to some extent.

Just think of what Germany may have become if not for Hiltler starting WWII. It may have gone on to lead Europe in economic strength.

But, alas, you are correct - during economic recessions, depressions, downturns, etc, wars are frequent and start easily. This is because of the negative social mood, protectionism, grab for much needed resources, land and assets.  Social unrest gets very bad too. Based on history, we can very well expect a major world war within the next 10 years. Unfortunately.

BTW, the major ecomomic cycle we just completed went from 1932 to 2000. The rally from 2003 -2008 was the credit/fiat/sucker rally before the big decline and liquidation.  It is now running its normal course and is not even 1/2 way thru yet. (just opinion, of course)

Good post, OM.

T

That's true.  Hope no-one inferred from those stats that I was saying the War was a good thing.

It is still being debated what were the causes of WW1.

I recommend the book below on WW I or the Great War as it was called then. There are, of course, many others, but this is the best one I've read lately.

http://www.amazon.com/First-World-War-John-Keegan/dp/0375700455

Thanks much for the info, Pete. You saved me some looking. I'll check out the ARRL report when it comes out in June.

These minutes stood out to me:


"10. Mr. McCobb updated the Board on the status of ARRL investments with emphasis on the strategies and reasoning behind how he executes his job as Treasurer. In common with the rest of the world, the ARRL’s portfolio lost value during the year."


Yep, makes sense - their portfolio was loaded up with stocks and mutual funds in 2003 after taking a -30% hit. It recovered from 2003-2007, but has since probably broken back below the -30%+ loss. At the time we had agreed their market speculative exposure was way too high for a company with NET assets of about $2 million.  I had feared for their pension plan too.



 "27. On motion of Mr. Mileshosky, seconded by Mr. Bellows, it was VOTED that the ARRL Board of Directors approves a capital expenditure of $134,500, as recommended by the Administration and Finance Committee for Phase III of the project to complete the new ARRL web site."

$134K just to FINISH their website?  Where's all the talented ham internet/website volunteers who could pull this off for them?  I'll bet a request for a team of volunteers (who would get lots of publicity for themselves) could be recruited easily thru their media drives.


          "28. On motion of Mr. Fenstermaker, seconded by Dr. Weaver, it was VOTED that the ARRL Board of Directors approves the implementation of a brokerage account at Credit Suisse Securities for the purpose of trading securities for the ARRL portfolio."

Hmmm...  they haven't learned. Sounds like they're trying to make it all back quickly by trading the market. Bad idea for their situation. Classic emotional choice. I've always wanted to sit down and find out what that financial officer's been smoking over the last eight years... :-)

T

To your larger point there is no debate. That argument was settled with Bastiat's "broken window fallacy". (BTW, The Law, Bastiat's excellent book is available gratis here:
http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/The_Law.pdf

However, by removing real threats to our property and well being, war can and has
(at least until the next threat arises) provided the environment necessary for economic productivity and wealth building (e.g. pax Americana 1946 - present).

Looming threats to one's life & property tend to destroy the  climate for economic growth.

Yep, some wars ARE necessary as a last resort as well as standing military deterrents.

I just wanted to make clear that to start (or participate in) a war solely to pull oneself out of a depression is lunacy and does not work long term - contrary to popular thinking of what transpired because of the coincidental timing of the USA's 1930's depression and WWII.

I believe that the USA was destined for this tremendous economic cycle from 1932 - 2000 despite any wars or threats. In fact, I believe that if it wasn't for WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and the constant build up of arms against the USSR for decades, we would now be so far ahead today it would be mind boggling. Probably had the money to be on Mars with a colony, a cure for cancer, independently energy rich, electric cars, Autobahn-type roads everywhere, etc. Those military $Trillions could have gone a long way.  ... :-)

T

Volunteer work might have worked if started that way but not midway through. I would suspect web developers have their own unique way of doing things and picking up this job (free no less) midway probably would not attracted a lot interest or motivation. Volunteer work generally would imply, "when I have the time after I do all the other tasks that people really pay me to do".



It probably wouldn't be in your best interest to learn what he might be smoking over the last eight years  ;D

But we have thrived on having an "enemy" for many decades.  It started with WW2 after we drove the final nails in the coffins of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

As soon as the War was over and those enemies were defeated, immediately and almost without pause we had a new enemy - communism.  That kept the Cold War going for 45 years, and in the interval, two "hot" wars, with trillions of $$$ into the military-industrial complex.  After communism collapsed as the Berlin Wall fell and the Soviet Union imploded around 1990, we wandered aimlessly for over decade without a definitive enemy, just a few brush fires south of the border and radical Islam snapping at our heels.  Small stuff.  Then came the events of 11SE01; we now have our enemy once again, so it's back to business as usual, so far for the better part of a decade.

I'm starting to feel that way myself. You spend half a million on a bomb, that's it. You might as well burn the thousand dollar bills.

You spend that half mil mil on infrastructure, roads, civic improvements like the WPA did, or maybe vehicles, and all those items have a long-term stimulating effect. You need road pavers, heavy equipment, even vehicle mechanics. It's the losers that have to pay after one drops that bomb.

Supposedly.

Very well put, Bill.

Remember the song from the 70's?  War... good gawd man, what is it good for? Absolutely Nothing! (say it again)   :-)
BTW, our CT governer has today started the CCC work program as in the 30's. People w/o jobs will be working on parks, trails, dams and other woody stuff like in the past. What's the saying?  "What's old is new again?"


Don,

Yes, we HAVE thrived on war. What a poor focus of our time, energy and resources. Look what it did to the USSR. Look what it's eventually done to us. We have rusting military hardware, most in the scrap yard, and we're still renewing the debt and paying interest on it today. It's called "perpetual debt," unlike debt that is retired by being paid off from real income and return on investment from use.

It's interesting that the world has become real good at multiplying and killing  people. Real efficient.

I think 2008 marked the end of an era and the beginning of a new one that will last for at least 40 years. Maybe the new enemy has taken the form of financial. Something tells me that man will somehow find a way to weave war into that as well.

It's too bad that over the last 60 years we didn't have world leaders who could keep the peace and cooperate. Can you imagine if we had a real, "Day the Earth Stood Still" event back in 1932 and we maintained peace?  I think today would be like something out of the Jetsons, technology-wise.... at least very very different than today. Even though we spent $trillions on military technology research, we neglected other areas that would have improved the quality of our lives.

Another historical fact:  There has never been an American president relected during a major bear market. Jimmy Carter is a perfect example.  This bodes poorly for Obama. I like Obama more than any other modern day prez. However, if history repeats and the bear mkt continues, he will go out very unpopular and lose the next election. That is so hard to believe right now... hope this time is different.

T

Tom, give me a long CQ around 3700, + or -.

-bk 9 PM ET

Bill, I heard you calling CQ on 3687 or thereabouts.  But I was tuned up higher in the band.  By the time I went down to the tower, retuned the antenna and got back you were gone.  I gave you a couple of calls but no reply.

Then about 5 minutes later I was tuning around and heard a bunch of pissweak slopbuckets, pissing 'n moaning for at least 10 more minutes, highly upset because you happened to call CQ on "their" frequency.

The country was created with a war.

the toilet picture -

What does it say on the lid? To put the lid down when finished?

some of the mobile guys cheat and run 18 volts. There are inverters made for them that take 12V and make 18 or 24V. But I think the tube is still king at home, as long as there are 4CX15000's.. I was told of a "mobile" guy that towed a generator trailer and ran a box of tubes. Never seen anything like that though since I don't hang out with that group. There are some key down videos on youtube.

Pay particular attention to the part about colon cancer.

http://www.naturesplatform.com/health_benefits.html

Good Read Don,

Um... War.. as it is..I'm not a fan either...is the inevitability of the misteaching of our children, the world is that life above all even Religion is of the utmost importance.

One can follow their beliefs their heritage their own path for that matter an not interfere with others it is possible...it's all in what is taught in the forming years that's ingrained and carried through life...I really believe that..

Subsequently we have what is... at some point on this rock we're gona have to put down the broomsticks and old wives tales and over written dialogs from the past and wake up one day and look around and say hey... the sun is up.. it's warm...i'm here your there dig this place...

I dunno

73
Jack.

Although war doesn't necessarily improve the economy it does impact society and ultimately the economy.  The first real department stores in the U.S. (Macy's of NYC and Wanamakers of Philadelphia) resulted from the Civil War and population growth in these cities from the influx of workers needed to power the Union war factories.  They would have happened at some point anyway with industrialization but the war definitely sped up the pace of change. 

The death of downtown shopping districts was an ultimate result of automobiles becoming more affordable due in part to the efficient factories and excess civilian goods production capacity brought about through our investment in WWII war manufacturing capacity.  As automobiles became more popular people were less dependent upon the mass transit systems which all served the central business district (i.e. downtown shopping area) and suburban shopping malls and strip centers provided convenient parking for the pride and joy of American families.

War wasn't the only cause of these societal shifts but it was a major factor.  Some of you may remember the Fuller Brush man who went door to door selling brushes.  Well, after Rosie the Riveter and her sisters refused to return to being happy homemakers after the war the life of the door to door salesman was a little less promising given the reduction of daytime customers.

On a dark note, war is definitely a form of population control and over population is a causal factor in many conflicts.

Rodger WQ9E

Pay particular attention to the part on public bathrooms.

Man found in public bathroom with blow-up doll gets arrested
The Gazette



A Cedar Rapids man was arrested Wednesday afternoon after police said he was found in a compromising position with an inflatable doll in a public restroom.

At 12:47 p.m., Craig S. McCullough, 47, 828 Eighth Ave. SW, was found lying on the floor in a bathroom inside the Hach building, 401 First St. Se, by a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent, according to the official complaint filed against him.

According to the criminal complaint, the man had his pants down “lying next to an anatomically correct inflatable doll.”

The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency has an office in the Hach Building. Special Agent David Hoagland, who found McCullough, could not comment on the incident.

McCullough remained in the Linn County Jail Thursday afternoon on a misdemeanor charge of indecent exposure.

McCullough was convicted in 2004 of burglarizing Just For Me bridal boutique, 709 Third Ave. SE. Officers found him in a nearby alley carrying a mannequin wearing a bridal dress shortly after the burglary occurred.

http://www.gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071025/NEWS/71025009/1001/NEWS&rssfeed=rss06

I guess the 'doll' was under 18 years of age??

klc

My question would be, is there a position in which you can be found with an inflatable doll and it not be compromising?

They work well for travelling solo in the car pool lane....

There was a recent arrest report in the local paper charging a man with "fondling himself in an inappropriate manner in public"; the article didn't specify how one might go about appropriate fondling in public.

o

I remember years ago when they instituted the HOV lanes around DC people getting busted for this. Too funny. Makes you wonder what the cop thought.

Rappers do it all the time.

Parson Malthus in the early 19th century and Paul Ehrlich in the mid 20th century both put forth theories of impending population catastophes. Neither was correct.

I suspect the earth can sustain far greater populations than it currently does.

Think again!

There will always, ALWAYS be another Khan, Ceasar, Hitler, Hamas, Bin Laden, Jimmy Jones............

The sooner we accept this AND the sooner we learn they need to be utterly destroyed the better.

Terry,

The earth can certainly support more than the current population but there are definitely pockets of overpopulation and that is one of triggers for conflict.  Compared to other countries, Japan for example, we can support a lot more population inside the continental U.S. but even within our country there is friction concerning expansion of neighborhoods.  In areas that are already tense population imbalance is a trigger waiting for a chance to fire.  I don't need a 5 acre homesite but I wouldn't willingly give it up; on the other hand I certainly could not imagine living with the population density present in many parts of the world.

Good old Malthus truly was a "gloomy gus" and it is amazing how many people bought into Malthusian economics.  I guess at the time one of his central tenets concerning wealth distribution seemed empirically supportable given the behavior of the European imperial empires.  He seemed to have missed the basic idea of wealth creation and focused mostly upon wealth transfer (or theft as the case may be).

[/quote]

Parson Malthus in the early 19th century and Paul Ehrlich in the mid 20th century both put forth theories of impending population catastophes. Neither was correct.

I suspect the earth can sustain far greater populations than it currently does.



[/quote]

Robin thought this was a post about the half time show at the Super Bowl?

Yea, but she doesn't get paid to think, only to look good.

Are you coming to the Richmond Frostfest?

True dat...


Yea, but JN wants to leave at 4AM :o
I guess thats when all the good deals go down.

Like I said.......this is LOADED question.......... ::)

He's an early morning guy. The sellers (that's us) can get in as early as 0630. That's why he wants to leave so early. Think coffee. I have tickets for you and JN.

Excellent! I look forward to seeing everyone!

Actually its not so bad, the ball and chain gets home from work around midnight, and doesn't go to bed untill 3 or so. She can get me up when she goes to bed.

My ball-n-chain is letting me use her candy apple red '99 caddy pimp mobile to go to da fest! The starter solenoid on the truck finally gave up the ghost, so I'll be cruisin' up in style.  ;D

It'll be good to see you again, Mike. Johnny & Steve too. 4AM.....wowsers. You'll scare the roosters! I'm bringing plenty-o-good deals with me, so be prepared to haul some of them home. Because I don't wanna. Friends get even better deals.

Mine gets home around 6 PM.  We have time for the evening meal and maybe something on the tube in those rare instances when there is something on worth watching, or she does her quilting or crossword puzzle, then she is ready to crap out at 10 PM.

Me, I'm just getting my second wind by then.  I'm the one who doesn't go to bed until 3 or so.

This gives me several hours every night to play radio in peace without interruption, if I so desire.

Too bad that festical is so far from here.

 ;D ;D ;D