The AM Forum

heh heh...

Very Good !  Where did you get this (or did you make it yourself)?  It's SO true!

(http://www.classeradio.com/index.gif)

Hence...The goals of the Heavy Metal Rally.

Cleverly done. It does seem like AM is getting very fenced in on the lower bands. I can recall 25 years ago that it was not at all uncommon to see 1865, 1875, 1885 and 1895 running flat out with 4 different AM conversations going on at once during the prime-time winter hours. Seems like SSB nets and other PW operations are now closing in around 1885, pretty much making it a single frequency band with one huge group trying to awkwardly "pass it around". Just an observation, I have no solution to offer, other than perhaps to split a big group and grab 1880 and 1888 to carve out a bigger swath!

Rob W1AEX

#1 invitation for slopbuckets firing up atop your already in progress QSO and pretending they never heard anything is operation on frequencies ending exactly in 5.00 or 0.00 kcs. Heard it on 160 a few nights ago. Sad.

Same op from THAT QSO fired up atop a totally different group of slopbucketeers an another freq last evening.

Most hams new and old have trouble figuring how far to dial away from an ongoing QSO with strong to medium signal levels. This includes AM people. The 0.00 5.00 problem would fix itself if AM users thought a little more about their occupied bandwidth when starting new QSOs next to giant roundtables.

Ask 10 ops and see.

Made it myself.  I'm working on my own "Heavy Metal" station.
I'm dog-tired of SSB Nazis deciding I don't have the same
rights I grant to them.  There's no such thing as a
"gentleman's agreement" when there's gentlemen on only one side.
Those who say they don't want a conflict are blind- or worse.
You've got a conflict already, like it or not.
And if you think it's bad here in the U.S., ask our friends
in Australia or Europe about the irrational hatred and
jamming aimed at AMers.  That's what happens to
us if we do nothing, trying to "avoid a conflict"
that's already knocking us on the head.

And you can't rely on the FCC to do anything.
Years ago, the SS-B Nazis set up on 3878 with the
specific, openly stated intention of running AM off the air.
People asked the FCC in get involved.  Hollingsworth showed
up on the freq.  What was the result?  Well, 3878 is still there,
full of SSB guys who are now entrenched and have no regard
for anyone trying to work in the "AM-witz" concentration camp.

When the phone band expanded, I and some others tried to
set up an AM window in the Extra section, at 3685 KC.
The band was totally empty for dozens of KCs either side.
We had a few QSOs when here came the SS-B Nazis,
who set up shop on *3683.5* KC (look at that freq again).
Again, they specifically and openly stated they were going to
stop any "AM window" before it could get started.
It wasn't long before their extremely loud signals ran us off.
I tried a few more times; I would listen to the empty 20 KCs
around, then call "CQ" on 3685.  Within minutes, the SSBers
would be on, telling each other to warm up the "lean-ers" because
"that AM clown is on again," and saying how they were writing the
FCC about *me* for interfering with *them!*  (!?*!)
Appeals for help with this blatent, open and "in your face"
intentional interference were ignored.
Last I looked, they were still occasionally there.
So much for doing things "by the book."

People who do as the above says, hiding from obvious
attack in hopes it will "go away" are not just harming themselves;
they hurt us all.  Recently, someone unnamed "agreed"
with some SSB Nazis who wanted to be on *3883* that
"we" would shut down our AM rigs at 6 PM, so they could
have the band when it went long.  Well, he's a great guy
but he sure ain't speaking for me.  It will be a cooooold day....

We don't have to get in a cuss-fit; 
Let me say that again: 
An uncivil "jammer war" will be self-destructive
and will not work.  Yelling and fighting won't work.
We just need to stop being so agreeable,
stop giving in to SSB Nazi bullies,
and say NO once in awhile.   
And the old "no one owns a frequency" guff is a nonsense,
straw-man argument;  everyone has to be *somewhere,*
and it's better we all understand who lives where.
We aren't asking for much- 20 or 30 KCs total out
of FOUR HUNDRED is a pretty small slice of the pie.
But they won't respect that.  They want it ALL.

"Gentleman's Agreements" have proven to be utterly worthless. 
The SSBers have proven they will NOT respect any agreement.
Either build a station that can't be run off the air,
and start saying a polite but FIRM "NO" to interlopers,
or face the fate shown above.

You cannot stop a man from beating you over the head
by handing him flowers.  And we are getting beaten bloody, friends.
You will either force this man to respect you, or you can be his dog
and do his bidding, licking his hand for the scraps ( like 3880-witz )
he lets fall from his table.  *There is no "middle ground."*
Which are you?

73 Dave AB5S

Actually, I think I did hear 4 AM QSO's at once either Monday or Tuesday night.  They were spread out from about 3700 to 3995.  I was surprised and pleased to hear that much activity.  That said, it's too bad we have to be chased around the band in order to have a QSO.

I couldn't agree more. You make your point well. I would however be a little careful in comparing any negative AM-SSB interaction with the attempted genocide by the Nazis and the resulting 6 million deaths.

If the LIDs, kids, splatterers and the miscreants can't work it out then I'll have to send the following rule proposal to the FCC.  Solve the problem by making the ham bands more like CB.    Assigned channels like all the other FCC services.  Works for them.  See the attached Excel sheet below:

Tom,

I think that's a great idea - so let's do it for real.

If anyone on here knows how to draw up an FCC petition, I propose we submit one that carves out 3675-3695, 3775-3795, and 3875-3895 for AM only. It will send a message to the SSB crowd and might just lead to some more effective enforcement action.

My 2¢.

73,

Bill, W1AC

Bill,

It sounds like you may not have read my proposal.  Also, I am against reserved parts of the phone bands for various phone modes.  This wastes spectrum.   Your frequencies mentioned does not follow my international HF standard 3 kHz channel spacing.   

Further rules would be:
4.  A channel may not be used if already occupied.
5.  To start AM operation, 4 consecutive channels must be found clear of activity.

2 years after inception, the frequency tolerance would tighten to +/- 8 Hertz.  No more nasty AM heterodynes, like the AM Broadcast Service.  No more off-pitch slop-bucket.

I have frequently tried to start a QSO on 3685, but no other AM'ers responded to  my call.  I don't recognise dead-air groups, so if I can get a QSO started first, the squatters will just have to move elsewhere.  I won't move to accommodate a SSB group (or another AM group, for that matter) that insists on starting up right next to my existing QSO and then proceeds to complain about the QRM.  Once you start moving around to accommodate those jerks, you become like the little kid on the playground who gets ganged up on and shoved from bully to bully.

As for dead-air groups, all frequencies are first come, first served.  You have to actually be using a frequency for it to be "in use".  If you and your buddies drop out for supper or to take a crap or whatever, the frequency becomes instantly up for grabs.  It's just like when you are queued up at the teller window at the bank.  If you step out to take care of some other business or chit-chat with a friend, you don't return to the same spot in the queue.  You go back to the end of the line and start all over again.

I have  run into dead-air slopbucketeers on both sides of 3685.  The only reason I'm not there more often is that I call CQ till I'm blue in the face before another AM station responds.

I don't think it would be a good idea to petition the FCC for channelised operation or AM-only subbands.  Nor would the FCC even be inclined to get involved. Just strap softly and turn up the wick.

Tom,

What happened to 160 and 40? 

While your at it do the same for all the HF bands, be consistent...

Not so (he said gently). 
"Nazi" is a complex concept;
the differing facets may be referenced independently.
My analog makes no reference to the genocide aspect.

The point of the analogy is that bowing to bullying in an attempt
to "get along," which was Western Europe's initial- and fatal-
response to Hitler, leads only to more bullying and eventual disaster.
The analogy is, therefore, correct and appropriate.
Kindly,
David S.


p.s. Sorry, but I think the "channelization" idea a very bad one.

If we could organize activity on 3685, I'd be happy to contribute.
My "big gun" is several weeks away yet, but I'll give'um what I got.

we don't need no mo stinkin rules.......just build a bigger signal if it bothers you.

3880 Witz?

Tom,

"channelized" frequency allocations?

Have to outlaw VFOs .    :o

I heard Irb, VJZ   tell people on many occasions that he WAS using the frequency,
He was LISTENING to it!

 ;)

Hmmm, I read the file..

I think I understand what Toms after here...somewhat...

It would challenge the "Sliding up under" or moving in "Above" ongoing QSO type activities.."Tactics"...an Force established procedure..

Interesting Concept..

If yer serious about this Tom I'd like to read the complete proposal...

And install Delta Tune!

1) find a clear spot & have a QSO (within your frequncy allocation of course)
2) run enough power to be heard
3) talk with stations following rule 2, politely ignore the rest
4) no 15 minute old buzzard transmissions with 51 watts-this is equivalent to riding a moped on the beltway--you WILL get run over.

Dave

The AM'ers were imprisoned in Witz years ago. Your cartoon is entertaining and I enjoyed it, however the AM vs SSB war has been raging since the advent of production made SSB gear. Blame Collins, Swan, Drake, Hallicrafters, and even National with their transgender rig, oops I mean transceiver. Let's review a little ham history with my slant….

We had the hertz (hurts) put on us when it was announced that we could no longer call cycles, cycles, we had to call cycles hertz. It was then we were put in line to board the train to Hamwitz.. It hurts me to say hertz, so I still say cycles. Megacycles and kilocycles still work for me.

The AM'ers aboard the train to Hamwitz arrived there in the late 80's or early 90's when it was determined by the FCC (Father Concentration Camp) that input power rating was against what the SS Brigade stood for, so PEP rating was introduced which reduced maximum AM carrier output, assuming 75% efficiency, from 750 watts to a paltry 375 watts. It was then I severed ties to the ARRL and dropped out as a VEC. I saw the construction of the gas chambers. It was then I designed my QSL card for the breaker breaker qsl good buddy types that I knew would soon become hams.

Then my vision and prophesies started unfolding. I was mocked and called all kind of names for my prediction that one day one could get an extra license with NO CODE and use memorization for the so-called technical or written test. It started with lowering code requirements … the gas chamber walls went up, then no code and the roof was finished. All that remains now is to pump in the gas and insist that us filthy AM'ers go take a shower in the NEW shower room.

I saw the day of the one on one and small group AM disappear … gang mentality was adopted by AM'ers … safety in numbers … AM'ers lost their cahonies … AM windows or volunteer concentration camps were formed … gentlemen agreements were assumed, it was an oversight that gentlemen were also a thing of the past. My definition of a gang: "A gathering of cowards." The days of an AM station escaping through the fences of the CC and calling cq and getting a real AM'er to come back are rare. Groups became larger and lower frequencies on 80 meters are used now that anyone can become an extra class without code … new concentration camps are formed, leaving behind the old AM'ers of a lowly General license that refuse to accept an Extra class welfare license.

The days of old time AM are almost gone. Homebrewing a complete vintage style station is rare. DX on AM is rare on 80 meters. One on one qso's are rare. Modern electronics has introduced a million new ways to jam … diversity they call it. Modern AM hams think the term "inrush current" refers to breaking in on a big group. Even push to squawk is antique.

Ricardo is dead ... no more T shirts or no more on air AM slopbucket imitations.

Ozona is dead...

Look at the age of most AM'ers? When we die who will keep AM alive? Maybe this won't be an issue if the SS Brigade ever gets us to take a shower. I will stink before I take a shower at Hamwitz.

There is no solution that can be made as a group ... news rules would only lead to new violations ... the current rules are not enforced. Petitions are just something to be shredded. The FCC designated ruling powers made up of mostly slopbucketeers will put the quietus on any proposal to advance AM. If they agree to anything that appears to our benefit, then there is a hidden agenda that will only lead to the demise of AM.

My solution: Listen around the band desired for anyone calling cq on AM. Respond and hopefully you can get a qso going. If no one is calling CQ then ... pick a freq ... listen for awhile ... then call CQ. If you get jammed then how you deal with the situation is a personal one. You may decide to join a large group and get to transmit once every hour or more. Many AM'ers never do the math ... a group of 10 where each transmit for 6 minutes is once an hour. What about the 30 minute old buzzard transmissions? A group of 4 would be once every 2 hours.

Here is my QSL circa 1990's.... designed for entertainment purposes ... all we can do is laugh.

Just for fun ... here is a closer view of my prophesy circa 1990's....
This QSL was approved and endorsed by Ricardo K8MLV.

WA3KLR listening Channel 95 _._

Very nice allegory  ;D    I like it, particularly the waffen SS font.
Might be a typo between frames one and two.
The Upper freq. should be declining rather that rising as the AM window is squeezed.

Here is the history of the AM and the SSB conflict in music as played on a flamenco guitar. See MP3 clip below. You can hear the angel music at the beginning, then SSB turns the bands ugly, then things seem to get better with the gentleman's agreements ... then there is nothing but turmoil until the off harmony end....

Disclaimer: This is for entertainment purposes only and not to be recorded in the archives of amateur radio history as gospel.

Huh? Last time I checked, 3893 < 3900, and 3883 < 3893.

Oooops , I was reading it backwards.
Dyslexic  ;D

heh heh... I like it.

"Izza Ex-Tra Now!"
http://home.netcom.com/~arc5/izextra.jpg (http://home.netcom.com/~arc5/izextra.jpg)

[flame suit on]

Meh...I don't think the correlation between having to learn Morse code and being a good Extra class ham is all that tight.  I am sure there are at least as many 20 WPM LIDS as there are highly skilled professionals who would have made great hams, but were turned off by having to learn the code.

Well, to be fair; I supported dropping code for lower class licenses.
We are forced to bend with some winds, lest we break.
But we don't have to bend over double and *smooch.*
Dropping code for the Extra was a needless mistake, and it will cost us.
That said:

I'm sure there are many people who want to be rock stars,
but are turned off by the work needed to learn how to play a guitar.
I'm sure there are many who want to be astronauts, but
are turned off by the physical and mental requirements.
If a person is "turned off" by the work needed to be excellent,
he should resign himself to mediocrity.

Our society continues to drop standards because
people are lazy and unmotivated,
demanding instant gratification without effort,
and vote for (mis)leaders who enable their sloth.
There needs to be a dividing line between the blundering herd,
which goes from womb to tomb and leaves nothing behind
but expended resources, dung and hot air,
and the "one percenters," who will do the work.

One old fart's opinion ;-).
73 Dave S.

Jack 'ZyelR,

If not an NPRM consider it the WA3KLR Band Plan as opposed to the IARU Band Plan or the ARRRGhL Band Plan.  If they can have one I can have one.

Now should the minimum spacing between AM QSOs be 6 kilohertz or 12 kilohertz?  (I am soliciting ARRL non-members also for feedback!)

Where is W2OY when we need him? ;)

See attached audio file.

Well stated Dave and I agree.  However, we have to be careful and not blame newcomers to amateur radio for the relaxation of the license requirements.   This issue has been beaten to death in previous postings on this board and I have previously been lambasted for expressing my opinion.  I do, however, understand and respect the position that we need to encourage new people by setting a good example and helping to instruct them in the fine points.  It is self-defeating to bad-mouth new licensees because they didn't have to jump through the same hoops that we did to get our tickets.

I am not any different from many "seasoned" hams who feel some degree of resentment over the changes in the licensing process.  I do, however, always want to encourage the growth of the hobby and I understand that it just isn't fair to people who are just starting out to blame them for the changes.  I guess we just need to continue enjoying the hobby for what it is and promote the specialties within it that we enjoy.  There are still many people who enjoy CW as well as AM phone in spite of the fact that those modes are considered archaic and outdated by many.  Even though demonstration of CW proficiency is no longer required, a large number of new licensees are enjoying learning and getting on CW every day.

Just my thoughts as a semi-OT licensed in '59.

73,  Jack, W9GT

There is no correlation ... none ...none at all, but that isn't the issue. The code was the only thing stopping many from getting the Extra class. I would agree to dropping the code had the written part of the test been revised to more difficulty and including vintage electronics such as drawing schematics, etc. knowing ham history, and also having SERVED TIME AS A GENERAL CLASS FOR 5 YEARS.

Sure there are hundreds of LIDS that learned 20wpm, but now there are thousands of LIDS without the code jamming up the bands. Instead of resolving an antiquated licensing procedure, they created a mass welfare state, being given privileges they didn't earn. The code was irrelevant to modern hamming so its deletion should have been replaced by some other relevant proof of knowledge and time served.

Gnaw on this ... we see no code licensed extras attempting to make CW contacts in the extra portion of the 80 mtr band running less than 5 wpm. It is not a big issue, but just goes to show the result of deregulation. The deleting of CODE was NOT about an unfair practice or the no need for code anymore, but rather a way of licensing thousands of hams to BUY all the mass foreign made ham gear. It was all about greed not about updating amateur radio licensing and procedures.

Why doesn't the ARRL and FCC deregulate the power an AM station can run? Why not at least 1kw OUTPUT on AM?

What difference does it make if a rule is started requiring a 6kc spacing between qso's? Who is going to enforce it? What about all the operator that never ID? What about the ones using others ID's? What about all the hams running illegal power? What about all the ones using profanity?

Unless the foreign mass manufacture of ham gear is stopped, there is no hope ... it will only get worse.

I agree. There were no bad operators before foreign manufactured radios came on the market.

[Adjusts asbestos longjohns]

You are both correct. Although I'd bet that the "Old law" Extras such as I are much better behaved on CW than we are on phone, it's true that knowing the code doesn't teach common sense or courtesy. I also agree that many "no code" Extras would have benefited from a more demanding technical test, although I would drop some of the theoretical questions and include more practical knowledge, especially about emergency communications.

I have said this before, here and elsewhere: CW was a requirement for hams because Uncle Sam wanted a trained pool of operators that he could put to work quickly if a war broke out. When CW went away¹, so did the need for hams to know it.  The question that never seems to get brought up is this: "Where do we go from here?"

Do the SSB'ers hate AM'ers? I doubt it: they're just ashamed that they don't have the same camaraderie and irreverent attitude as the guys they hear on AM. Do SSB'ers intend to drive AM off the air? I doubt that, too: if AM is gone, they have no devil to rant about, and thus nothing to make themselves feel good. I've said this before, too: many "deficient personality" types take up ham radio or other hobbies because it's a safe place to be a jerk. After all, if they did it at home, the temple gates would slam shut for a month (Kudos to W1IA), and if they did it at work they'd get fired. Ergo, they make asses of themselves by annoying us - or anyone else who will listen.

[Re-adjusts asbestos longjohns]

The solution is to call off the battle: reach out to those who plague us, and offer them help to improve their stations, their skills, and (you heard it here first) their on-air personalities. It's not AM vs. SSB: it's the Hatfields vs. the McCoys, and no one can remember why or how it started.

73,

Bill W1AC

1.) If we need a date to put on CW's tombstone, the Coast Guard decision to stop monitoring 500 KHz would do as well as any other.

You make some good points Bill. But I think you are dead wrong if you think that there are no SSB ops who hate AM/AM ops. I think you were speaking generally, and there I agree. But it only takes a few specific cases of AM haters to cause an inordinate amount of problems.

I recall being regularly QRMed/jammed by SSBers on 3875 kHz back in the 90's. So, one night a bunch of us got on the frequency using SSB. We operated and acted just as we did on AM. Guess what? There was NO jamming - none all night, for a span of 4 hours or more. It had nothing to do with our camaraderie, personalities, the amount of fun we were have or anything else. It had to do with the MODE we were using. There are plenty of SSB ops/groups that have fun and good camaraderie. Maybe some resent the fun we have, but they resent that we use AM far more.

You ask the question, where do we go from here? I don't know that we need to go anywhere. AM continues to grow in popularity and on air activity. As Don-K4KYV says, find a clear frequency, turn up the wick and ignore the QRMers.

Then there are the sometime AMers that gripe about SSB but don't hesitate to
get down in the so-called window and have there group on SSB when there are AM qso's in progress 3-4 KHz away!

I agree!

I know for a fact that there are those that resent (hate) AM based on bandwidth.

I know for a fact that many AM'ers also operate SSB and usually on modern gear. Are they really AM'ers or MM'ers (Multi Moders)?

I know for a fact that 11 meters AM is full of lids that never learned code.

I know for a fact that what I know for a fact doesn't matter, in fact very few hams, of any kind, give a fat rats tail.

SSB use to stand for Single Side Band but I took the liberty of changing it to Super Bad Breath. I say this in fun as in reality the problem is not the mode but the operator. We have digital jammers now, so SSB isn't the only offender. Jammers some times use an AM carrier and it is just as annoying as monkey chatter.

Strange the many that oppose Morse code, use internet abbreviations, CB 10 codes, old Morse code spelling, and Q codes. Could Morse code have been an influence on these codes? Maybe yes, maybe no, but codes do play a part in modern communications. Knowledge of Morse code never hurt anyone.

RRR es 10-4 on the qrm es qrn om es lol es pimp abt the jam r. i c u on utube agn 73 fer now xyl calls.

11 Meter AM ops would still be lids if they knew the code. Don't kid yourself.

As far as rigs and licensing go, consider this:

When I got my Novice, I took it through a VE because the FCC wasn't giving tests anymore, and that was my only option. Don't blame me for that.

When I got my General, I only took a 13 WPM test, because they weren't giving 15 WPM tests anymore. Don't blame me for that.

When I got my Advanced, it was a kneejerk impulse with no studying involved and I passed. Not my fault, either.

The people currently getting no-code licenses are getting them because that's the only license being offered now. Holding that against them is seriously misguided.

Since nobody's teaching these newcomers anything about anything (because it's much less effort to piss and moan about the fact they don't know anything), it should be no suprise that they've been buying pre-made rigs from the manufacturers who offer the most flexibility and "features"; rather than buying single-band kits, which are about the only things still made in this country, and let's face it: most of what is generated by American companies for ham radio consumption looks like tossed-together garbage. The Japs out-did us, admit it. That's why Hallicrafters finally folded after their ghastly FPM-300, and Drake is out of the ham radio business altogether (they got smart and turned their attention to sattelite gear for broadcast service).

On the other hand, I got licensed as a Novice in 1991 at the age of 19, my first rig was a Drake TR-4 which I resurrected (while everyone else was getting their code-free Techs and buying riceboxes, HTs, G5RV kits and pre-made J-poles), and have always had American-made tube gear in my shack. See for yourself, it's all in the gallery. Not everyone who came into this hobby after a given point in time should be painted with the same brush.

Blaming a lack of code requirement, asian-made radios, the FCC, or any of these for the fact that some sidebanders feel it's their duty to jam us is nonsense. The jamming started long before the code requirement was dropped, long before the asians took over the rig market, and long before the 1500W PEP rule.

Those things may be contributing now (and I'm not sure I even buy that), but they were never the cause; and while pissing-and-moaning about them may make you feel better, it adds nothing to the discussion of how we are eagerly letting ourselves get bullied and beat up in the name of peace.

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

Another old fart (SK) tells it like it is:

George Carlin on Edumacation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI5EY5kqiBU&feature=related)




Do you really think the FCC gives a rat's arse about how much power you run, as long as you aren't generating more hassles, or creating more work for them, with things like RFI complaints?

Here!Here!

Reality of it all is this folks:

If you run PW power, you are going to have to pick and chose your operating times carefully. The more strap-essent signal you run, the less this is the case.
I have talked to both the 3892 and marconi net ring leaders, and there is just no reasoning there. They make grandios claims of recording signals, and calling/writing the FCC to get those AM'ers off the air; but reality is, they don't and they won't.
As many have said in the past:

[/b]

Mike, W2ZE

I don't prefer channelizing and I don't prefer demanding a +/-8Hz accuracy. CB-like channelizing is not a very good idea for ham radio.

I don't think ssb users will agree to the same channelizing scheme that would be acceptable for AM. Channelizing for AM could waste spectrum when no AM station was present and channelizing for SSB could crowd the normal and acceptable AM emissions. If one considers a sharp cut at 3KC for audio resulting in a 6KC channel, then yes fine for SSB where the DC to 200Hz region isn't much in use and the real BW is more like 2800Hz giving a 200Hz guard band, but that does not work quite as well as it should for AM, where DC to 200Hz is in use due to the carrier and for the same effective BW now 3000Hz is needed on each side of the carrier and there is no guard band. It becomes a mess very quickly because the relative optimal bandwidths do not match up that well no matter what hypothetical bandwidths I have used here. And I say these are hypothetical because I have seen wider and narrower emissions on both modes depending on the equipment.

To digress for a moment because in any discussion of channelization bandwidth comes up:
It was proposed to the FCC by some technically uninformed hams to limit bandwidth in hardware, even demanding that filters be put between mike and the (insert mode here) rig. The rebuttal is that it's not the bandwidth going in that matters, and it would be an unreasonable burden to operators to have to modify their gear internally at several points to prevent emission more than a certain width.
Some rigs have very complicated analog signal processing, audio AGC, clipping, TX RF AGC/compression fed back to the audio stage, and then ALC on top of that, and this is not going to work on them. The field is full of such rigs. I will for this example cite the AN/GRC-106 which has a 4KC bandwidth on SSB/FSK, as defined by the USB filter on 1.75MHz, not easily re-engineered. The rig modulates fully whether whispering or shouting into the mike, perfect for the battlefield. So there's a real king of SSB rigs, yet it is wider than most commerical SSB ham gear. It ticks off SSB operators when the band is crowded. And it's an SSB rig! Some people cannot be accommodated no matter what the mode is. Most SSB operators are decent people. The few that are not are the kinds that would eat their own brother (i.e. the aforementioned military SSB rig being subject to their jamming because it's a little wide)


VFO accuracy:
Old VFOs and TX's, and other signal sources that are not "test equipment or appliances" drift slightly (Would my Icom IC-706 plastic radio even hold 8Hz?).

Why CB has litle conflict on AM vs SSB:
One reason AM and SSB on CB get along is that the TX bandwidth inside the radios is often unnaturally narrow.
Another reason is that AM is generally used below channel 24 and SSB is generally used above channel 23.
Another reason is that aside from channel 19 and any local groups, the channels within the "range" of a listener are mostly unoccupied.
Another reason is that CB is a short-distance (supposedly) niche with a couple three uses today: chit chat, trucking, and traveler information.

HF Ham radio is much different due to the great distances possible, higher power limits for almost everyone, and the many more active users.

Thanks for the George Carlin, Don ... my wife says his rant and rave sounds like me.

I agree, they don't care until complaints are filed. I have one neighbor that bought a vcr tv combo that picks me up even without the cable connected. When the cable company and police came to investigate, I showed them the FCC disclaimer when one buys a piece of unshielded junk like this vcr. I fired up the transmitter showed them it was below legal power out, showed the technician from the cable company (an old navy technician) how it looked on my scope and they were satisfied, but told the neighbor they could complain to the FCC if they wanted. They did and the FCC didn't investigate after reviewing the police report. Had I had a rig capable of illegal power, I am sure the FCC would have come to visit. If it was legal to run more power, I would and the neighbors with their unauthorized shortwave vcr, would have to accept it. BUT it ain't gonna happen. FCC as a whole doesn't care about ham radio anymore.

KA1ZGC ...The issues I discussed in a previous post are not when jamming started, but it did add to the problem. I have been building radios and listening since 1956 and licensed in 1964. Many of the jammers are not intentional and simply don't understand the first come first serve rule of ham radio. There is however intentional jammers that plan and organize jamming. They are not new either, but it seems to me much worse with the give away license program. They get tired of contesting and all the other things one can do as a ham, so they become jammers. They are the same mentality of the types that design internet virus. Sometimes it is boredom IMO. Why is it that many hams think every citizen of the USA needs to be a ham? It usually comes down to a special interest ... join a ham club ... support a repeater, join the ARRL and pay dues, and buy gear.

I don't blame you for taking advantage of the system, if one wants to be a ham then they do whatever is required at the time of their licensing.

How are you going to feel the day they dispose of licensing ... no test required?

I have always been willing to help newcomers interested in vintage homebrewing. I enjoy it. I spend way more time discussing homebrewing on the internet than transmitting on the ham bands. I use to spend it building, but my health doesn't allow it much anymore.

As I told you in my PM, I will be glad to share my knowledge and experiences in homebrewing my 3x 813 xmtr. One suggestion I have now is to buy some of the 50's ARRL Handbooks and also the Bill Orr Radio Handbooks of that era. Do some studying and decide what you want to do. Then start collecting the components. I have sold off most of my high power components, so I can't help there.

Don't take it personal when some of us bemoan the bygone days. No one is blaming one such as yourself for taking advantage of the VEC licensing or becoming a ham ... because you have genuine interest.

I think it is great we have younger hams such as yourself wanting to build an AM transmitter.

First off, I have received no PMs from you whatsoever, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Second, using phrases such as "taking advantage of the system" suggests that you regard me (or anyone not licensed before you) as a second-class citizen. It's very patronizing. I assure you, sir, I "took advantage" of absolutely nothing to get my license. My license is every bit as valid as yours.

If they eliminate licensing altogether, I will probably feel no different than I do today. To get a license today doesn't require the same effort that it required when I got licensed, either. I don't use that as an excuse to pre-judge a person's character, nor will I if the license requirement is dropped.

As far as the "do some studying and decide what you want to do" line goes; well, thanks for talking down to me even more, but I've been licensed for 18 years now, have done plenty of studying, and plenty of homebrewing, thankyouverymuch. Please don't assume I'm some kind of idiot just because I'm younger than you, or didn't get licensed the same way. It kind of flies in the face of trying to convince me otherwise.

As far as the advice offer goes, you can keep it. I'll take my advice from those that can treat others with some respect.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

Born 1981 - too lazy to show up for the 60's.

Licenced 1996 - no-code Tech, just a memorizer.

Upgraded to Extra on 5 WPM 2005 - if I had spend more time during college on code instead of girls, Ida got that 20 WPM.

Switched calls from N1XZB, for the street cred.

Became a VE 2007 - the child becomes the master.

Became OO 2008 - somebody has to keep those wide AM stations in check.

W7XXX, look into the eyes of a man ruining your hobby. I'm rolling down your street, me and the FCC, and we are coming to replace your homebrew with a Yaesu FT-DX9000. Make some room on your bench, we're pulling up now...

VVVVV

I apologize KA1ZGC, I had you confused with another KA Zed AM ham that PM'ed me for advice. My comments were directed in answer to his PM and your post., so I understand your confusion and getting excited.

I do not assume any of the things you conceive I do. Some of the generalizations we make shouldn't be taken so serious, like the reference to slopbucket or boatanchor. it doesn't mean the operator of either is inferior to the other. Recently I was in qso on AM at 3875 and one of the group says, "I think i will pullthe plug on this boatanchor and go up to 3890 and operate a little slopbucket. No one was offended.

I understand there are some AM'ers that will not continue a qso if one of the newer AM hams joins in ... but that is not me. Most of my qso's are with hams running modern solid state gear Asian made gear or riceboxes as we call them. it doesn't mean the operator is inferior or not as smart as the guy running boatanchors or homebrew, because some of the best old time electronics communications engineers I know run all modern gear.

I use the term welfare ticket simply meaning no code, it doesn't mean you did not work for it, it just means you didn't have to bother with the code that eliminated many from upgrading in the old days. it is a gift compared to the old ways.

I have an opinion that is not exactly opposite, but close to it. My argument applies only to the CW portion.

The "indolent" argument, not unlike the old worm that never dies, will likely never go away and I'm tempted to roll my eyes every time I hear that vacuous old moan (often accompanied by much wailing and gnashing of teeth). In lieu of the CW portion, I would have favored a more difficult written examination or a demonstration of theoretical knowledge and actual proficiency in a technologically advanced mode. I as much said so regarding the ease of the written tests in a comment to the FCC during the period of time reserved for comments on the CW testing issue.

I wonder if a person's technical ability and contributions are not worth something in the world of technological progress today? Putting so much value on proficiency in one single mode across the board is not logical any more. I'm one of a detachment responsible for a military radio and data communications network for voice, data, VoIP, video, WWW, and e-mail, covering 10,000 square miles+ and operating on analog and digital HF through UHF (plus the satcom portion which I won't go into) for several years now.

We need some good communication-electronics men by the way if anyone is in Texas and has an interest in doing some paid military commo during emergencies for the state.

The extra written test was no challenge for my knowledge of communications technology or practice. It wasn't even as challenging as the FCC General Radiotelephone test I passed in '86. If anyone wants for an example of work left behind to the benefit of others, they are invited to see patent 6,313,878 and soon-to-be-granted and most excitingly high tech application 20070187603.

So, I don't accept the argument of laziness.

not a rebuttal, just my take on the CW-for-extra!  8-P

You bring up a point I was going to bring up.  Why is one mode so important?  There are many modes that Hams use to communicate with.  Should we kick the old timers off the band because they don't have a clue about digital modes or solid state or binary, or DSP?  How 'bout retesting old timers like they do to keep a drivers license?  How many old timers learned the code just to pass the test, never to use CW again and can't even copy code any more?  Let me tell you, it's probably 80%

I knew several Technicians who were on the cutting edge in UHF & microwave communications but they forgot the code and had no desire to upgrade to operate HF.  Does that make them bad Hams?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the reason hams are allowed to get an HF license without CW is that it was agreed to in one of the last WARC conventions.  The FCC is not to blame. The whole world agreed it was no longer relevant.

The last time I prepared for the Extra I had to learn all the special rules regarding operation from space.  How relevant is that?  How many of us are going into space?  (I passed the Extra but never got around to taking the code element.)

The biggest danger to Ham radio is not lowering the bar.  The biggest danger is if we become an ever smaller circle of self centered elitists to the point where Ham Radio is no longer relevant and can't justify the spectrum allocated.  Then the FCC will auction it off to the highest bidder and we all lose.

Everybody's Different...Different opinions are good....accept everyone on their own level...

Click's are bad...falling into and being directed by...

Individuality Man...some people just can't handle it... ;D

Hear Hear! The thought of "kicking OT's off" because they never bothered to, or wanted to, learn today's new high-tech is totally abhorrent to me. And individuals we are. Some more than others, but that's no measure until the task requires one or the other. "A poor man is a nut. A rich man an eccentric"! With all the blather, and the soundbytes, etc, I'd like to throw this little related scrap of paper out on the table, showing that appliance operators (yes we might as well drag them into this, because they might come to this site for some advice..) have also been around for decades, at least since the NOV 1964 QST article discussed connecting a Heathkit panoramic adapter to the Haughty Appliance of Old.  - and that they should not be disparaged against either, as long as they are doing what's right when we meet them out along the wireless.

Wow,
Who are these creepy hams?  Callsigns???  Glad my elmers did not have that attitude. 

Let's face it.  All these antique Johnsons, Hallicrafters, Hammerlund and Collins rigs we lovingly restore, were once shiny new appliances purchased by some OT or SK Ham (who had to learn the code, BTW).  Even the broadcast transmitters are basically big appliances.  Appliance operation goes back to the first commercially available equipment.  There were always Hams who were proficient enough to fix their own stuff, and those who weren't and paid others to do it.  Hams that were poor and HAD to make due and scrounge what they could, and rich Hams who always HAD to have the top of the line. Not much has changed, except high quality equipment is a whole lot cheaper than it was in the old days.  ;D

That being said, I have to say, I am impressed with the knowledge that people on this forum have gained by working on this old stuff, and it's kind of sad that modern "appliances" are so complex, microscopic, and difficult to comprehend, that the next generation may never know the pleasure of being able to maintain their own equipment.

I can recall in the early 60's when hams who came on the air with Valiants and Globe Kings were derided by old timers as "appliance operators".  Kit builders were just one small notch above appliance operators.  Those who put surplus gear on the air commanded a little more respect because it usually took some improvising and technical skill to get a piece of army or navy gear operational in a ham station.

But nearly everyone used store-bought receivers, except for those who converted surplus.  It was extremely rare to hear someone say they had a homebrew receiver. A factory-built receiver was much less a sin.

I always found it much more interesting to hear a  ham give a description of his station when there was something unique about how he put it together or what the tube lineup in the homebrew transmitter was, than just to hear someone rattle off the same make and model number you have heard a thousand times before.

Ah. That explains it.

In that case, there's no need for an apology, and no hard feelings. We were simply caught in a miscommunication, which fortunately we've cleared up.

It was extremely confusing, though... I would have thought the 25 kilowatt single-phase power supply in my avatar was a dead giveaway.


I assume (or at least hope) that by "you" you are not referring to me personally, as I've already stated that I never held a no-code ticket of any kind (not bragging, just stating facts).

As I said before, things aren't even the way they were when I got licensed 18 years ago. However, some of the worst lids I can think of offhand have been around long enough that they would have had to appear before the FCC for their exams. For every case of "the whole thing went to hell with the VE program", there's at least one case of "even the FCC didn't stop this clown getting licensed". It's an easy thing to lament, but I think it gets more credit/blame than it deserves.

I've gone on very long tirades in the past on our willingess to embrace and assist newcomers being on the wane, and its effects on ham radio, so I won't go into it again here (as the whole board shouts "thank you" in unison). Suffice to say I think that plays a much larger role.

Anyway... this is all off-topic. Sorry for the detour, guys.

FWIW, I sometimes feel that this whole lisence class system tries to create a social heirarchy among hams. Somewhat a "caste" system if you would. this really is bull$#%t!! We should all be a "kindred spirit" and stick together for the good of us all. That "brotherhood" just doesnt seem to exist, except in small groups here and there. Lisence classing sometimes makes that worse as some have upgraded just for the bragging rights.

I would have never bothered to upgrade had it not been for the new "phone band expansion" and many of my friends moving "down band" to escape some of the congestion up in the "AM window". As a general (or novice as well) I could design / build / or repair equipment as good as anyone else out there. I was always willing to help out anyone that came to me looking for help.

Where this is leading to is another "whats wrong with this picture" story.

Some years ago when I was a lowly novice, I had a friend that was an extra and a VE. He used to bring me his cables to put connectors on them. He would always call me for advice and explanations of how to operate his equipment.

If anything it should have been the other way around!!
Henceforth: "Whats wrong with this picture??".....................................

This further goes to prove that code proficiency and the ability to remember the answers to questions about operating from space have no bearing on the ability of one to operate a radio properly!!

                                                       the Slab Bacon


And, er, furthermore............... IIRC, you can only transmit from space it you are an extra!! so therefor all of the astronauts that did the space shuttle thing were granted extra calls without any of the testing required of us!! So I guess they were real "welfare cases"  :o  ;D

no place for tender egos

Agree 100%.  It used to really upset me when Jean Shepard (K2ORS) used to say on the air (WOR) that Novices and Techs were not "real Hams".

I got my General in 1958 and upgraded as necessary to keep the original privileges I thought I earned the first time I took my FCC test.    I think most of the newest hams I have worked on SSB (some have not discovered AM yet) have been the most enjoyable QSO's I have had in a long time.    Most of them have been polite, friendly and interesting, sort of like old time ham radio.   They should be welcomed and encouraged to pursue all aspects of the hobby.

This is written more for newcomers looking for a little direction. You old crusties already know this stuff.... :-)

----------

Ham Radio always becomes what you put into it.  As many of us have said, "It's what you do AFTER you get your license that counts."

Your reward is knowledge, and satisfaction from accomplishing things that the average ham is unable or too lazy to do.

If it's easy, then we get bored quickly and drop out  - or cause trouble. If it's a challenge, we may get frustrated and discouraged for a while, but the end result is pure joy.

One facet is homebrewing. In general, I find the ones who take the time to learn and build their own gear are the happiest hams on the air and off. It's a focus and also creates your own posse of like-minded friends.  Good examples are the Class E guys, the BC xmitter restorers, the SDR crowd, the 813 rig guys, the vintage boat anchor guys, the receiver collectors, etc. Focus on one activity and you are assured to have fun and make friends, even if you are a newcomer. Axe questions and become involved.

Ham Radio can become a "Lone Wolf" game if we let it. This leads to isolation and reasons to give it up. But those who hang together with common interests have the most fun. Again, homebrewing is an imporatant key. That's why it worked so well in the 1920's to 1960's. Most all hams built something in their shacks.  The appliance revolution changed a lot of things.

I know. There was a time when I had access to any appliance station I wanted, for free. I took home a complete Yaesu FT line with all the accessories. The most fun I had with it was setting it up and getting it working. After a few days, I got so bored with it I took it back and set up my old homebrew gear again.

I see many newer hams who get into the hobby and buy expensive gear. They usually break into a QSO and immediately tell everyone they are running a TS-XXX Pro Field Disco Duck, expecting enthusiastic acceptance. Soon they realize that no one really cares - and after a few minutes they go away disappointed and stagger into the next QSO. Same results. Some find like-minded hams and hang out talking about the latest xcvr and how good the receiver specs are, etc.  These guys predicably sell everything and move on unless they stumble into a group that works and learns.

Ham Radio fun and success is based on friends of common interests. I'll say again, homebrewing and hanging with a crowd of homebrewers/restorers/collectors, etc, is the smoothest road to longevity in Ham Radio.

As far as different modes, agressive groups, Radio Nazis, etc....  they can't touch you when you have your own well-bonded group. Eventually, time will fly by and we will have memories of the good times we had and the friends we made in Ham Radio. The memories of conflicts and feuds will disappear like fresh snow in April.  Focus on having fun, learning, running a BIG rig and building new relationships - and always help others that need help -  and everything will take care of itself.


BTW, In a millenium, it really won't matter if CW had exclusive rights to 3500-3600  or 3500-3700... :-)

73,

Tom, K1JJ

Sounds a little  like me and my Radio Shack 10m appliance that I bought on sale when the last sunspot cycle was beginning its decline and RS wanted to unload its stock before the band fizzled. 

I had heard the FM activity at the top end of the band, but the AM detectors on all my  receivers demodulated it very poorly if at all, and I wanted to listen to the action and maybe participate.  So I purchased this little modified CB rig that ran 25 watts on FM and SSB, and 7 watts on AM.  No CW capability.  I set it up and connected it to the antenna, and started monitoring the FM activity.  I think I made fewer than a half dozen contacts on 10m FM before I became totally bored.  I worked a handful of AM and SSB QSO's with it, but I found that equally boring.  So I went back to my Eico 720 fed with DDS VFO and modified 730 modulator.  That was a lot more fun, and the signal it put out sounded much better.

I have one of those 10M Rat Shack units, did not use it very much because the sunspots were down when I got it.  The most fun I had on 10 M FM was my first rig.  It was a GE progress line commercial Low-Band FM tube transceiver converted for 10 meter FM operation. This was a monster which mounted in the trunk with a control head connected to the dash. It was powered by a vibrator supply and put out somewhere between 50 and 100 Watts.  I worked all over the US on 29.6 with that thing.  Nice rich sounding FM. 

I also converted an SSB CB to 10 meters and had some fun with that.

For me, talking to Hams with interests in common with mine is more important than if the the rig is homebrew or not.  Of course, homebrewers are nearly always interesting and educational.

The problem was that I never could find much in common with the people I ran into on 10m FM to talk about.  Nothing to do with the kind of rig I was running, or even the mode for that matter.

Don said:
I used to like hearing how many repeaters I could 'kerchunk' when I would key up :D

Yeah that was pretty insane.  Now that many are on PL, this may help, but it renders non-PL trancievers kind of useless.  Now that I finally have 10 FM equipment that can do PL, the band is dead.   :(

Tom said, "TS-XXX Pro Field Disco Duck"

Heh, I see some Kenwood - Icom - Yaesu references in there Tom. Your whole post is an amazingly succinct description of our hobby. It made me laugh.

I had pretty much the same experience on 10 meter FM Don. I applied audio to the cathode of the oscillator in my DX-100 to get on, and after a few ho-hum QSO's I went back to 29 MHz to work some guy from Colorado who was strapping in with his Johnson Desk Kilowatt. It wasn't until some local guys got interested in converting Hy-Gain boards and putting a local 10m FM repeater up that I got really interested in running 10 meter FM again. As Tom mentioned, a lot of the enjoyment seems to be in finding a common interest with the people you are talking to.

Sorry the band was so crappy the other night on 160 meters, it would have been nice if propagation had cooperated more.

Rob W1AEX

Here's a nice tune that sums up these ssb morons...
Not to mention the CW nuts from the other thread.

Note:  NOT aimed at ALL  ssb/cw operators...

Just the ones that deserve it!
(you know who you are)

http://media.thechrispirilloshow.com/mp3/yourepitiful.mp3