The AM Forum

Not exactly a poll, but I would like to hear from a wide range of folks on this.

Here's the question:

What is the usual condition of your bench, if someone randomly came over or if there was a "webcam" monitoring ?

Here are the choices:

10 - immaculate, professional lab standards
9 - kept clean, lots of open space, nil clutter, no parts about
8 - neat, sufficient open space, little clutter, few parts out
7 - neat, some open space, some clutter, some things out in "boxes/jars" etc...
6 - workable, enough open bench to work, stuff around, stuff under and above
5 - workable, could be neat given several hours of cleaning, has basic organization, but quite a lot of stuff is around... can work without cleaning first.
4 - harder to work, might take more than a few hours to straighten out... must clean before starting a new job,
3 - must clear main work area first, the rest of the space is not open, but there is organization underlying - might take an hour or more to clean space to work.
2 - main work bench hasn't been clean in a month or more, hard to work in the area, maybe hard to walk around too
1 - hard to find stuff, too many things out, benches full, almost impossible to walk, finding stuff can be impossible, working on the floor, a chair or in the kitchen.
0 - can't get into the bloody room.

Ok, please state the level or range of levels that your bench/shop/lab space goes through. Be honest please!!

Also, please - this is very important - of the time you spend in that space what % is spent working and what % is spent cleaning, putting away, and organizing??

Anything else, like how many hours per day/week/month you spend "benching", how may hours or minutes you typically spend at any one time, or other clarifying information would be good...

A good friend and I were chatting about this, and he told me that he spends X% of his time on the cleaning, putting away and organizing. Since that was somewhat different than my %, and I see his results vs. mine, I was curious to see what others were doing and what the results might be...

(i'll tell everyone what my deal is... not to worry...)

Thanks in advance!!

          _-_-WBear2GCR

I'd put my bench between 2 and 3.  I don't know how other people keep their workspace clear, mine is always overflowing, and another emergency is probably on its way, even as I type this.   ;D

my home bench and workshop are a 1 or 2 - less than 5% of the time spent cleaning, except for occasional cleaning binges when I've just had enough.

at work,  more time is spent in trying to keep things neat, like maybe 10-15%, or just under enough to be effective.

The focus of this isn't just the condition of your bench, but how much time do you spend cleaning the space vs. the time you spend working in the space??

Either a ratio or % is the idea...  :D

           _-_-

My bench area is a 6, but my parts storage is more like a 2.  I spend over 80% of the time searching thru the parts and less than 20% building and restoring.  I know I have the part, but where did I put it?  If I spent 100% of the time sorting and organizing all the parts for a year or so, then I could work without delay, but I lack the space to organize efficiently.  Maybe if I move to a bigger house, the basement will be larger????

my ratio of work to cleanup is 75% to 25% and I rate my space a 8 when beginning a task and 7 when ending.

I think I fall into the 2 to 3 range as well. Though despite the mess I can find everything needed for the project at hand.  Frank/GFZ, You were over recently. How about a 2nd opinion on my mess...

Bob

Like many others I am in the 2 to 3 range on average and about every third project I spend an hour or so doing a complete cleanup.  I probably spend less than 10 percent of the time cleaning as I don't make too large a mess while repairing, just large enough to keep things disorganized.  My greatest difficulty is finishing one project before starting another.  Right now I am chasing down an intermittent in my Grundig Satellit 3400 so I have it apart but I picked up an SX-88 yesterday and I really want to get started on checking it out but I am going to force myself to finish the Grundig first. 

Fellas, fellas, what I want to know is how much time you spend cleaning up/resorting stuff vs. time working.

That's the baseline...

the rest of the info is good, but only of interest with the above input.

            _-_-bear

Alright let me try.

I am a '2'. Most time spent on actual work on the project at hand. Cleanup includes pushing most stuff back and cleaning the front most area of the bench. If I spend 30-40 hours on the bench working about 1 hour is cleanup. Why put most tools away when they will be used for the next session.

Over,

Projects 90%, cleanup 10%.

2 to 3 also on the work area and I spend 75% working vs 25% cleaning and organizing. My storage area is a 2 at best.

I'm working toward a 5 on the shop space when I separate the electronics space/shack from the general shop space; that'll keep the sawdust and metal chips out of the electronics.

I'd say I spend about 5% cleaning and 95% working.

EDIT- Ya know, it's got to be more like 99.9% work and 0.1% cleaning.  I'm doing a lot of stuff, but not cleaning up much.

what is this thing called "work"??

My shack is usually somewhere between 1 and 2.  Probably <5% cleaning time.  The only way I could achieve a 7 or 8 would be to spend more time sorting, cleaning and organising than working, probably at a 75%-25% ratio.

I don't think I could achieve 9 or 10 no matter what.

The problem I have with cleaning and organising is that every little item has a place where it belongs.  That means picking everything up, one piece at at time,  carrying it to its proper place, putting it away, and then going back to do the same with the next item.  This can become extremely tedious when it gets  down to small components and pieces of hardware.  Just clearing up my workbench alone would probably entail a total walking distance of over a half mile.  To do the entire shack would be more like several miles.

I usually know where things are supposed to be, but my problem is that when I go to get something, often it simply isn't there.  I have that same problem in the house, even though it would rate closer to a 7 or 8.

I can expend mental and physical effort towards organising and track-keeping, OR towards actually working on a project, but I find it extremely difficult to maintain a high level of effort on both fronts at the same time.

I can understand perfectly why surgeons have a team of technicians standing by to hand them the instruments they need, instantly upon demand.

Projects....... 100% !

What is this "cleanup" thing yawl are talkin' about ?
Some kind of new tool or sumpthin???

At this point i don't have a rating..I sold alot of it off for college funds..imagine that.....even the newer network analyzer that i busted my butt to get my hands on..I Really Miss that machine man...

It's alright though...starting in fresh again is very inspiring...really makes ya appreciate the little things..."And the People even more"...even if I'm an Old Crab About Safety... ;D The messier the better...Kaamon... 8)

brevity for Bear   2(95:5)

You've seen the pictures of the ClipLead 400.  My bench is spotless  Yeah, right ;)

Mine's a 3 or 4  The bench is always completely cluttered, and I only clean a spot when I'm doing a new project.  Been that way for 35 years - worked so far!  :D

Neat people scare me  8)

Steve

... waiting for UJR to show up - I've seen his pix... ::)

              ;D ;D

                        _-_-bear

   

An unequivocal "1".
73
Steve WA2DTW

Bob,
You are about 7.
I could stop working today and have plenty to do for 50 years.
I've run out of places to put benches. I keep a clear path to the washing machine.
But I take a shower every day and brush my teeth.
FEAR not I have an empty basement at GFZ south

I changed my time breakdown to 99.9% work and 0.1% cleanup.  I pretty much never clean up, I just keep going, with parts bags all over the place, etc.  Well, they have to be somewhere, and I'm always using them.  This results in the roughly '2 to 3' condition of the bench.

AMEN on that (my bolded emphasis).  I usually know where things are.  Sometimes it do take a little time tho'

Al

I just build/buy new benches and avoid cleanup. Those old metal typewriter stands work great for holding boatanchors in progress. They are never more than $5 at garage sales. The only problem is the wimpy casters occasionally go away while they are being rolled around with 300 lbs on them. Ya gotta be careful to avoid a "high side" rollover.

I know I have one of those on the bench somewhere........

Skip

My combination office/shack/workroom is extremely crowded. Much like living in a trailor or boat. Everything works and has it's place, but I need more room.


I'll have to divide the workbench into two areas.... 

The eight foot table is 6' of tools  and 2' of actual work space.

It's a "3" for the tools/test gear area and a "7" for the two foot workspace... :-)


It doesn't take long to clean up 2' of workspace -  so it's  97% work time and 3% clean up.


I usually do one project at a time until it's completed. 

Looking for and deciding on parts in the beginning is a major part of my project time.  That's the drawback of being unorganized parts-wise. 

I agree... neat people scare me too.... ;)


T

I'm gonna shoot a pix and have you guys judge me. I dont think I'm neat, but I do spend a lot of time setting up a bench in the beginning because doing so leads to massive time savings later. I am getting ready to put new labels on all my parts drawers, which is no mean feat considering I probably have close to 600 bins now....and the bench is only considered  done after those bins are stocked.......

I'll let recent visitors rate my junk yard.

Heh, it was a tight squeeze when MrMike and I visited last fall, Frank. But your toys are big, right down to the tuning network in the back room. And you seemed to know where everything was and what it was, which is a step in the right direction. ;)

You know it's bad when your friends visit and remark about the Viking KW desk and ask when you got it. This happened to me last fall at the pre-NEAR-Fest gathering. There's no easy way to say '1994, it's just been covered with CRAP everytime you've been here before'. Roger 'MBX has an interesting story about that.

The radio area is in a constant state of flux between Stage 2 and maybe 7 or 8, depending how optimistic one is. Maybe 60/40 work vs clean up time, which would explain a lot. I still don't really have a workbench, per say. Any area from the operating position to kitchen table has done duty as a work surface. KAQ South (to borrow your term, Frank) has a separate workshop building, so that will help.

Just like nature abhors a vacuum, horizontal surfaces seem to abhor emptiness. Clean an area off, a few days later it's attracted more 'stuff'. That's my excuse, at least.

To paraphrase an old office saying 'If a cluttered workbench is the sign of a cluttered mind, what's an empty workbench the sign of?'

I'll 'fess up, my bench is a constant source of frustration.

Not because there's no organization, but because perpetually it is impossible to complete any real project before the end of the "day" or the "weekend" or whatever time is alloted for the job - and inevitably before that job can be finished, taken off the bench and the process reversed (all that stuff put back where it belongs) ANOTHER thing comes along and then THAT has to go onto some part of the bench, and on and and on and on, until there is no open bench space left!!

I have a dedicated space that has two rows of modular Steelcase industrial style and color units each of which are about 4 modules long end to end, the aisle is between the two, lights above. The entire length of the darn thing is ALWAYS FULL no matter how friggin hard I work at cleaning it, it stays clear for exactly ONE project, then the s**t hits the fan...

It's starting to look like what I need is a bench that is about 100 feet long, and a crew working from the rear end cleaning it as I go along?? (the one I have is about 30 linear feet now!! So maybe 100 feet is not enough??  :o :o :o :o :o )

Either that or an assistant that I have looked in vain for, that happens to be compulsive about putting little parts into little drawers, and keeping surfaces clean and tidy!!

I'm not gonna spill the beans on the % of time I spend on cleaning my bench yet because I really want to hear from some folks who actually keeping a clear bench!! And, see what they are doing to get that done!

Any clean bench's out there??

                    _-_-Woobly Bear Two Gleaming Chromium Robot

A clean bench is a new bench

Bear,

At least your question has motivated me to straighten up the bench after I stop each day.  Unfortunately this won't last long I am sure but it is nice to work in a clean space.  It looks like with my current project in addition to replacing around 50 black beauty caps I am also going to be replacing a lot of carbon resistors.  Doing a quick pseudo-random sample 12 out of 20 checked were at least 30% high, most were over 40% high, and a couple of the larger wattage units were about double their marked value which means that in addition to being way out of spec on resistance the deterioration would likely continue at an increased rate since they are probably now also over their dissipation rating.  The good new is what I was afraid was some sort of undocumented modification is actually just lengthened connecting wires to the 2'nd converter sub-chassis.  I guess the original owner wanted to do some testing with the converter removed from the main chassis but still functional.  I plan to return the connections to the correct length AFTER I make sure the receiver is working properly as they probably are very handy during troubleshooting; I guess this is the point-to-point version of extender cards.

 Even when my bench is messy I do put all of the tools back where they belong because I despise wasting time looking for tools.

Rodger WQ9E

a clean spot on the bench means you need to start another project.

Just as nature abhors a vacuum, nature abhors a flat surface.

Bummer...

I was hoping that someone who has a clean bench would post.

Apparently there is a relationship between clean benches and posting on AMfone??

                 _-_-

I once had a fairly clean bench.... A few years back that is....

Where's the transmitter?

And then it happened!

The HB rig is behind the Racals above and the T3 is below... Other low level rigs are hiding elsewhere...

Nice!

ed's part of the collector goon squad again! a paid up member of the racal rascals biker club! a marked member of the modulation mafia!

And......er........Furthermore...............now we know where all of the surplus r-390s ended up!! ;D ;D

You got some big EARS there ED !

In addition to the table, I have a few r-390's on the floor and some SP-600's ready to go! The guy on the right second to the top is a R-725....

And then there's a stack awaiting restoration on the other side. Some Collins stuff is stacked behind this one... (couple of A4's, a 310, A1, etc)  :)

damn I feel overwhelmed getting all my stuff in good shape to where it will work every-time i flip the switch and give me no trouble.  I cant imagine having dozens of rigs to restore like i used to back in the day.

ed, thats a primo crop of radios you got there. Impeccable taste OM. Not a s19 sky champion in the bunch.

Ed, A disgusting display of Amerikan excess and materializm!

If you feel like having some of the "working class" and downtrodden come and "liberate" that gross excess and decadence, I am sure that I can arrange to help you - and mend the errors of your ways.  After all, how many of those receivers can you listen to at the same time??   ::)

                       _-_-bear

Bear, ahhh, but I am just a "working class" person myself, struggling in this petro-based-economy world. Having had the chance to own many rigs in my former life back in Pa (before my divorce from that wench) I developed a like for a certain class of radio equipment. The divorce and subsequent move precipitated the sale of most everything, many hams were made happy with my dispersal of said gear.

Being somewhat more liberated myself these days, I have come to re-acquire radios that I once had and enjoyed, but with greater abundance this time around (the new xyl is very understanding). I have also taken the thrill of building to the next level by buying my radios in pieces, restoring, putting them together, troubleshooting, aligning, etc. The R-390 is a wonderful example of this, as it is modular. The Racal is very similar and presents a somewhat more difficult challenge than the R-390.   

Sure, I may exhibit some excessiveness and materialism, but damn, it sho is fun! :P

PS - here's a shot of another table in the shack, OM. It's a sickness I can dig...  :)

Ed, I'm glad to se you back in clover. We sho had some good times.  8)

I'm re arming and by the time late summer rolls in I should be done an ready to roll with all the gear fixed and working better than new. I got the other side of the old antenna down and rescued the wire and rope. Bought another hank of dacron offa ebay.  Now I have to get a recurve bow about 40# pull to shoot the W7FG antenna in place.

is the HB rig ready to roll on your end?

Derb, yes we sho did bro...  :)

I recently purchased some new chassis's for the HB rig, as I am not satisfied with the current design/performance of the audio chain. It just doesn't seem to have enough BA's, I think that the low level stages just don't have enough gain. So, it will be redesign time for that. Also, I may elect to redo the RF deck a bit also.

The T3 is ready to go, I have dropped the main blower speed so that it is a little bit more bearable noise wise. I don't get on to much anymore, but I listen whenever condx are ho-ho-hi-fb-om.

Look forward to talking to you again sometime soon Derb...

Ed,
My limit is 3 receivers at once. I only have 7 racals, 4 cubics and a TCI/BR in th eoperating position.

And I continue to note, you lazy thread hijackers, that no one who has a clean bench has the time to post on here at all!

any "clean benchers" out there or NOT??? >:( >:( >:(


             _-_-bear

A clean bench (or any other workspace) is always the sign of a sick mind!! :o :o

  "  And I continue to note, you lazy thread hijackers, that no one who has a clean bench has the time to post on here at all!  "

I am without sin.

 

Rating here is 4.

Percentage of time working is 70%, cleaning/putting away 30%.

The ratings are due to:
1.) having too many projects ongoing, which tend to get timeshared.
2.) having one work table, from which a project must be removed in order to work on another.
     ('big iron' excepted -they get worked on where they are)
3.) frequent influx of new supplies of parts or units-for-parts.
4.) stripping/salvaging is also done at the work table. This is included as "working".
5.) packing things for shipment is usually done on the work table, requiring removal of projects.

other comments:
1.) Putting away tools is aided by a giant too chest. otherwise the cleaning number would be higher.
2.) Cleaning means sweeping and taking scrap outside to the pile and stacking/restacking items on shelves.

Well, two things -

that pile of crap on the floor behind you?  ;)   (cheating)

And, I'm not 100% certain that I really need a 3k wide hi res image of an empty bench to download on my dialup??  ::)

                  _-_-bear

  "  Well, two things -

that pile of crap on the floor behind you?  ;)   (cheating)

And, I'm not 100% certain that I really need a 3k wide hi res image of an empty bench to download on my dialup??  ::)  "

I am Shocked, no, Shocked and Appalled that my kindly submission of a clean bench, one that was submitted with the utmost sincerity, has been ridiculed and dispersions have been cast upon my motives.  I feel so cheap.


Your salvation from dialup is just a click away...

http://www.timewarnercable.com/albany/

P.S.
I'll be on the 145.170 fri afternoon and most of sat....   



klc

kindly indeed!

And fyi, I do not live in smAlbany, nor within the reaches of that hideous timewarner cable piracy group. No, I live in beautiful Greene County, where MidHudson Crapblevision is king! And since I live up on a "spur" road of sorts, in their infinite wisdom at the time that they put up cable, they did not run it up my road because there were too few homes. The chances that they will run there godforsaken rotten service the 1/2 mile (approx) that it would take to get here is likely nil. Unless of course I sign up all my neighbors and agree to a lifetime of endless ROT, hundreds of unwatchable channels of utter rubbish for the TV. That and an excessively high bill for TV and internet, with lousy service for no added charge.

Perhaps I need to come over and inspect that bench area... in the interests of truth, freedom and the American way?  ;D  <waves flag>

As far as 2M? Haven't been on 2M in a long time now, ever since the last time I tried with my HT and amplifier and the old amp (in the car) seemed to go funky. Sorry. Also can't get the hang of this new fangled "PL" thing, it's hard to talk and hum a low note at the same time...  ::)

                        _-_-bear

PS. Obviously, since clean bench types don't have time to post, you must be faking!  :o :o :o

Hi Bear - As per our QSO over the Independance Day Weekend - I'd rate my mess about a 5. Currently working on my new Valiant and cleanup won't commence til problem is solved. I find it difficult to break away from my work as long as the mystery remains unsolved. I'd best get a handle on time management lest my xyl takes serious offense. I heared Stu coin a phrase that covers my mental state - "Boat Anchor Fever" - Bear - You were asking about my Valiant 1. It has plenty of grid drive - but ever since a balky jumper plug on rear panel failed to supply low voltage problems have popped up. Wiggled the plug and everything lights up - but can't get more than a few watts out - It's won't respond to loading efforts. I'am thinking maybey a problem related to the clamper circuit. Any ideas? JIM KB3QAY