The AM Forum

Just had the fuel oil tank topped off today to get me through the summer and fall at $4.29/gal.   Ouch!  Fortunately, it was only 81 gallons unlike last year at this time when it was 180 gallons.  Glad I turned off the furnace a long time ago.

I wanted to fill up last month when it was below $4 and oil Co. told me to hold off. That was dumb. I need about 350 ga to fill both tanks.
I think I'm going to do electric in the living room and keep the rest of the house cooler on oil. When do we take out the trash at the white house

Evicting the inhabitants of the WH unfortunately won't get rid of the problem. Capitol hill needs to be cleaned out too and then a swift and hard education of the people is in order.

I will supply the pitchforks and torches.

I don't understand what high oil prices have to do with our administration.  Prices are controlled by supply and demand in a free market system. The government isn't raising the price of oil.

I doubt if you really want the government to have control over market prices.

The only thing the government can do is reduce or eliminate the tax on oil, but experts say that is only a temporary solution at best. 

While we're on the subject of home heating oil, does anyone know where to find a site on the web where I can obtain a graph showing the monthly home heating oil prices over the past 30 or so years?

Be glad you don't buy your petroleum products in bush Alaska....  Unleaded gas..$6.02/gal...  Av gas..$7.25... furnace oil...$6.51...  Higher prices in the more remote villages...We have a deep water port here in Naknek and can get a fuel barge up to the dock...They have to fly the fuel into the interior towns that are off the road system.....The fuel prices on the Alaska road system are comparable with the lower 48...We have the oil and the refineries but we can't get it to our homes and cars in the bush....Good news is...Winter is almost over here.....

The people do not need education, no matter how swift of hard any of us might want it to be: experience, it is said, keeps a dear school, and the people have learned its lessons well. You would to better to ask the people what they want, because it is not for you or me to decide what they need.

The people want what they have always wanted: leadership and hope for the future. Changing the current occupant of the executive mansion will not provide either unless the people give up the fantasies they've been living by and start electing wise men who are willing to tell them hard truths and demand honest answers. Such men do exist, and they can get elected - you know the names as well as I - but their rise to power tends to come only in times of extreme crisis, when ordinary people can see that the glad-handers and liars and poseurs must be cast aside.

I have a lot of experience in this area: I founded the Huntington Avenue Tenants Union, I organized a union among engineers at Verizon, and I walked picket lines as a union technician in the phone company. One of the saddest lessons of my life has been the realization that Lincoln was, in the end, wrong: while you really can't fool all the people all the time, it's very easy to fool a majority of the people on election day.

At the end of that day or any other, the people need to be treated as adults and trusted to make wise decisions. Given that chance, they will surprise you.

73, Bill W1AC

Nah, Bill. People always take the easy way out.

A former engineer and president warned that this was coming, he set a national goal of 20% less reliance on petro-fuel by the year 2000, he wanted the nuke industry upgraded and improved, he turned the thermostats down in the winter and wore sweaters to work to set an example; he installed solar panels on the roof of the White House and gave the public tax credits to do the same on their homes, too... Which his successors then tore out.

Am I the only person that remembers this?

We weren't ready to hear it. Most of us still aren't ready to hear it.

part of it is certainly the vehicle choices.
I need a pickup truck every week, but not to commute.
it's 25 miles each way to work.
The truck gets 16.5MPG on this trek.
I would like to also have a small car with good mileage like a geo metro or something for commutes.
I could afford the car but not also the insurance.

I refuse to pay ripoff double insurance on such a thing, that is, I only drive one vehicle at a time. Why should I pay insurance fulltime on two vehicles? The auto insurance industry needs an attitude adjustment. I would prefer to insure the driver, one price, not each vehicle, unbundled, paying fulltime insurance on all. I say to the ins. co.'s: Charge me the current rate for the most dangerous vehicle I own, the truck. This gives me the right to drive any other vehicle I own, and I promise to drive only one vehicle at a time, for I, the driver, am the insured entity. I have yet to see anyone driving both their vehicles at the same time, yet all decent folk insure their entire motor pool. for what?

Déjà vu, we went through this in the 70's, didn't learn a damn thing.  People sure have a short memory. 

Besides, the news media have been keeping our attention focused on things that are actually relevant to our daily lives... The latest Brittney Spears meltdown, Paris Hilton's sexploits, and of course, Obama's bowling score and Hillary's beer preferences.

I just listened to an in-depth story about current events in China.  Our addiction to cheap Chinese consumer junk is in for a big jolt.  Chinese workers are making demands for decent wages and Chinese leaders are beginning to listen.

Wages Up in China as Young Workers Grow Scarce (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/business/worldbusiness/29labor.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

I don't want to buy their cheap junk. But where can I buy a computer or cellphone or calculator or VCR or microwave or ____ made in the USA?

Well, leading sheep and cattle is a slow process, especially in this free open robbery system of ours..but then again the Free demanded deregulation....there ya have it.

it's good for business...

On a slighter note...in G tuning..i'm a blues fan  8).. one of my older brothers bought a super duty Dodge Ram single axle Dump truck...his search was based on how much or what trucks were actually produced in Amero-ka.. he found that 60 % of his truck was in fact built and produced in Amero-ka...Nice truck don't get me wrong... but he's a Knock down red blooded American... believes in the American way..(lost in that frame work)...even has a Flag pole in his yard with a gigantic Amero-kan flag waving high...

stood back after enjoying the nice new truck..looked at the flag in his yard... and wondered..."who made the Flag brother".............

I would agree that our government isn't raising the price of oil but my personal opinion is that international politics have a huge impact of the price of gas.  I think it's safe to say how the President conducts our foreign affairs does have an impact and thanks to globalization the internal politics of other countries sometimes hits us in the pocket book as well.  Just my personal point of view...

Opcom,
I have a similar situation and I have an '06 diesel pickup but I use the car most of the time for commuting to work.  Driven sanely (which I am doing with the current diesel prices) the pickup averages around 20-21 mpg but certainly not as efficient as a car.  But a car won't go through the drifting and blowing snow which sometimes hits this part of IL and it certainly won't carry large building materials, etc.  Since I only use my pickup when I need it I currently have it on a limited mileage policy which stipulates 7500 miles per year or less and this drops the insurance price considerably.  The pickup gets used when I need a pickup and I will take it on a couple of trips to the mountains this summer (and of course to a couple of hamfests).  I am not quite ready to go the full economy car route yet (I am currently awaiting delivery of a 2008 CTS with "new" EPA ratings of 17/26 to replace my Olds Aurora) but I don't make unnecessary trips and have cut my monthly driving down to under 800 miles per month which is pretty good considering my rural location.  I do "telecommute" when possible since a big part of my job responsibility is research which I can do just as well at home.

Otherwise, we have a big home which was built in 1901 but it has had significant energy efficiency upgrades and I use a pair of high efficiency propane fired furnaces for zoned heating.  I will probably rely more on the forced air recirculating fireplace in coming winters as I have plenty of free wood.  Except on the very coldest and windiest days the fireplace easily keeps the house warm but there is the hassle of feeding the fire.

The biggest check on energy prices will be our slowing economy also causing China's to slow.  Hopefully we will also learn some lessons from this and become more efficient and add some good alternative fuels.  However, all of the push for ethanol seems to have some strong parallels to the previous push for BPL where lobbying outweighs science; ethanol from corn is a lousy long term solution and ethanol only really makes sense if we sell vehicles that are purpose built to run ethanol (i.e. very high compression ratios to take advantage of the high octane of alcohol) and not a compromise unit designed for petroleum/ethanol mixes.  Set rant mode to off....

Rodger WQ9E

From what I have been reading on the economic web sites, the cost of a barrel of oil due to supply and demand without dollar devaluation  would be around $75 a barrel.    The dollar devaluation is caused by government deficit spending and the resulting decrease in demand for the dollar, which lowers its value with regard to world currencies.
The federal reserve has been caught between saving the investment banks and the credit markets, and combating inflation.   It has chosen to save the banks and to lower interest rates.    This leads investors and speculators to increase their demand for hard currency, i.e. stable foreign currencies and commodities (oil, corn etc.)

I'm not quite sure what "Fuel Oil" has to do with our radio hobby but let's not pull politics, or your political views, into the thread.

From our Rules and Regulations, Item 6:
6. No political or religious posts will be tolerated on this site, unless directly related to our hobby.  There are thousands of sites one can go for that subject matter including the TV or newspaper.  People do not come to AMfone for that.  Frankly, 70% of the posts that created flame wars that were of a political or religious nature were pulled and we don't need that here.

(http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/gif/redeye.jpg)

If you enjoy participating in political flame wars with other licensed amateurs, try this forum (http://forums.qrz.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31).  It should be more than adequate.   :D

But this topic is relevant to AM to a certain extent.  We have to pay for the electricity to operate our rigs.  Frankly, I am surprised someone hasn't already started a campaign to have AM outlawed because it "wastes energy" while pushing slopbucket as the "green mode".

(You will notice I didn't say that very loud.)

Our government plays a huge role in energy pricing mainly by artificially restricting the supply of energy by outlawing production. If there were laws outlawing the production of new cell phones (or any other product), they too would be prohibitively expensive.

New energy production (and corresponding increased supply) has been shut down by the effective moratorium on nuclear plant licensing. The last plant to come online was the Watts Barr plant in TN. - construction of which started in 1973 and its still only partially online!

New energy production has also been shut down by the outlawing of offshore drilling both at the federal & state level. New energy production has also been shut down by the outlawing of drilling in ANWAR. 

I agree with Terry W8EJO.   France has 75%  (http://world-nuclear.org/info/inf40.html) of its electricity  produced by nukes.    Germany has a government policy to promote solar energy electricity by individuals.    Many farmers are using their land for solar cell farms and sell the electricity back to the grid.    I think that rechargeable  cars, either hybrid or pure electric with an on-board generator is the wave of the future.    Also electric heat or heat-pumps will take over from fuel heat.   That will require more electric power produced by nukes which can operate cleanly and without adding CO2 to the atmosphere.   There has been a lot of technology created since the Three Mile Island problem.   If we can make air travel as safe as it is, we ought to be able to engineer safe nuclear power.

Nuclear power is the safest type of energy in the world. In the entire history of nuclear there have been 50 deaths total - all in Chyrnoble - a commie state built/run plant.

Compare that to coal, oil, or any other form of electric production and you'll see it is far and away the safest and by far and away the most efficient. Coal mining accidents kill 100's if not 1000's a year worldwide. Oil rig accidents kill many each year.

The answer to our energy problem is right in front of us. It is very frustrating. I hate to see what kind of economy we turn over to our children & grandchildren. It could be devestatingly bad unless we act fast.

At a certian point our economy will slow way down with loss of jobs & standard of living. It is already happening at the lower end of the income scales as people have less to spend on all the myriad products that make our economy hum along and the businesses that make & sell those products start cutting back.

Well,... venting once in awhile is a good thing,  Amateurs do have to put up with what is dealt by the world...guys like to get together and hash things out...right or wrong...

I don't see any challenges to friendships or threats of violence..

hey the leadership could be telling us to ignore it...LOL...like a certain other group who shall remain nameless...LOL.... ;D

But.. I do know this much...there isn't a body on this planet that will ever wear anything out that creates it's own lubrication... 8)

After a couple of years of just being PO'd about it, our government's inconsistent policies and the idea of sending money to our enemies every time I tank up, I did a few things on my own.   This has greatly improved my attitude:   

1) When my wife's car needed replacing we bought a Prius, a surprisingly comfortable and practical car.   We consistently get 45 - 50 MPG; 

2) I took advantage of the California and Federal subsidies and put a 5 KW PV system on the roof. My electric bill is now zero. In fact, it would be negative if they paid for putting more into the grid than you take out as they do in Germany; 

3) The old furnace needed replacing. I'm in the process of switching to a heat pump which will use up those excess watts (and then some, probably) and will take my natural gas heating bill to zero.   

4) I increased the insulation in the house quite a bit.

5) I use a Class E AM transmitter (OK this a joke. I was doing that anyway)

I had the advantage of having old stuff (cars, furnace) that needed to go. I highly recommend doing whatever you can yourself if for no other reason than reducing one's own grumpiness.

Jon

Don,
 
You are more correct than you may think. The government's recent history for the last 40-50 years (without regard to political party) has been to take away freedoms. You can not drill an oil well or build a nuke plant or use an incandescent bulb or have a toilet that will actually flush. I'm sure AM is on some bureaucrats list of things that must go.

For a country that was founded on freedom, we sure seem to be going in the opposite direction as the pols bow to this or that group.

It's well past time we citizen/taxpayers make some noise.

Jon,

What did the PV system end up costing you after the rebates? Can you show some photos
of the installation?

Pete

Gee, it looks like people are finally starting to wake up.

Pete,

The one they recommended was a 3.3KW system that would have cost $18K after rebates.   But I went crazy and got a bigger, fancier system, 24 SunPower 205's with an RF-quiet inverter.   That system cost $28K after rebates.   

The SunPower stuff costs more than other panels but gave me the maximum power in the roof space.  I could fit no more than the 24 in the spot I had.   

I don't have pictures.   They lay flat on the roof and are in fact invisible from the ground.

http://www.sunpowercorp.com/Products-and-Services/Residential-Solar-Panels.aspx

Hey, it was a piece of change but unlike the new car we had to buy, this actually pays back.

Jon

I like the boxy shape of the Scion - very efficient for hauling stuff with minimum footprint.  But I wonder how is it for carrying weight.  A friend of mine had one and I examined it.  It looked kind of flimsy to me, like a couple of good heavy transformers would have it dragging the ground.

If I thought it would haul the weight when called on to do so occasionally, I would buy one next time I need a replacement car.  I like something small, easy to park and cheap to run, and don't much GAF about the styling, but I like to be able to haul anything I can make to fit inside without worrying about overloading the engine or suspension.  I once permanently inverted the leaf springs on a Corolla after hauling a bunch of radio stuff the 1200 mile journey here from the Boston area.

As for the Prius,  I wonder how reliable the technology is over the long term.

Why hasn't there been more attention to geothermal?
I mean, drilling holes deep enough so that water boils.
Heck, we're sitting on top of a planet full of molten iron.

Talk about a win-win...No waste products.

I know zilch about that sort of engineering. How deep? Cost? Do we have the steel and technology to do it? Is it practical? If not, what do we need to do? Better offshore where the earth's crust is thinner? How hot is it inside those offshore oil wells?

From what little bit of reading I've done as far as Oil...Montana and North Dakota are looking very wet for the drillers. The Bakken Formation is on the radar view it's something like a 200,000 mile Formation, a possibility of 3 to 4.3 billion barrels of oil in place...Get-r-Done I say....

73.

Oh, Another thing...as far as importing...this country imports 2/3's of it's oil. and that culminates over 40 supplying countries, not just OPEC for the record...

Go ahead put a couple more oil men in the White House.

LOL....Imagine if they Canceled the elections...what a rush that would be... ;D

There's enough Colorado Oil shale alone to match the outpoot of the Saudis. Hundreds of years worth of petroleum. But the environmental consequences of extracting it would be terrible. Enormous quantities of water (in an arid region) and the need to build large power plants to cook the oil out of the rock. Pollution and cutting off water to the rest of the west.

No one wants to be in a national sacrifice zone. That's where the ranchers turn into environmentalists. Your rights as a land owner to trash your place should end at my property line, but you should have a right to develop your own resources, too.

As it is right now, drilling is ruining the water table in places in an arid west. Water wells are turning into fizzy things with unpotable water- Just like back in Ohio and Pennsylvania a hundred years ago. Oh, the water's still there all right, but..Whiskey's for drinkin', water's for fighting over.

 How do you fairly balance all of that?

We can't drill our way out of this mess. Our Alaska oil from "our" federal land is already mostly going to Asia, China, Korea and Japan. It's not being sold to run them Little Deuce Coupes in California. Can we do anything about that? Nope.

I'd be 100% for drilling anywhere in Alaska as log as the law stipulated that the oil recovered from *our* federal lands was to be exclusively shipped to, refined and used in the USA, by commercial interests and the military. Give the oil companies tax and lease relief to compensate them. . That's the only way we'd get price relief. And it's the same philosophy that almost every other country in the world would have. Is that gonna happen? Not if Exxon/Shell/Mobil has its way. It goes to the highest bidder, at the most profit, courtesy of our American lawmakers. . Screw the USA for the extra profit.
OK, fine. Then we don't drill on our federal land.

How about we strip mine oil in Iraq with nukes.....after we pull the fine American forces out. 

Here are the top 14 oil exporters for 2006.   I haven't yet found data for 2007.  In millions of barrels per day:

1. Saudi Arabia, 8.65
2. Russia, 6.57
3. Norway, 2.54
4. Iran, 2.52
5. United Arab Emirates, 2.52
6. Venezuela, 2.20
7. Kuwait, 2.15
8. Nigeria, 2.15
9. Algeria, 1.85
10. Mexico 1.68
11. Libya, 1.52
12, Iraq, 1.43
13. Angola, 1.36
14. Kazakhstan 1.11

All fine, stable allies of the United States.   Small potatoes after that.

We are the most addicted to this supply importing 12.22 MB, about two and half times second place China at 5.10.  I'm sure China's figures are higher for 2007.

The data come from here: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

I'm no fan of our second gilded age national government (of the People, by the Lobbyists, for the Profit of global corporations), but George Washington could come back from the dead and Congress could be replaced with honorable people and we'd still be faced with this reality:

1) We consume much more oil than we can produce
2) Those who have it to sell are not great pals of ours
3) The price is only going up because of China and India competing with us for the oil

Why haven't we done anything about this precarious situation? I think it's because those who profit from the trade have a lot of influence and because in the short term it's fun and comfortable for all of us to just keep doing what we're doing.

Hi Bill,

About 1700 miles deep to the molten stuff, but not that far to make water boil.  Though, drilling into a "bulged up" area like a volcano would shorten it tremendously.

Take a look at this picture and explanation:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061126121122.htm

And how about the hot springs in parts of Yellowstone Park? That is a rare and protected area, but is the right idea near the surface.


This type of thinking starts the path towards the three classifications of very advanced technological civilizations.

1) The first phase is a civilization taking energy from the center of the planet.
2) Next mining energy directly from the sun's surface.
3) Lastly, mining energy from the center of the galaxy, namely the black hole.

I can invision the first step is to build a massive co-generation plant on top of a semi-stable volcano and tap that.


But in the meantime we'll burn fossil fuels and split atoms.

Looks like we're still a bunch of Johnny Novice cave dwellers for now ... :-)


T

LOL, Tom.

Or is it Sagan the II?

Good hearing from you. Hope all is well.

And a nother thing:

Our internal combustion engines are only about 20% efficient. The best, the large diesels that power ships might be 50% efficient.

They can only be as efficient as the thermal cycle allows. The hotter they can run, the more efficient they become. This would require more expensive materials, ceramics and etc.

Anyone else see where this leads to?

Imagine doubling the efficiency of our national vehicle fleet.

The reason we use 4-cycle gasoline engines is because they're they cheapest, mass-produced means of propulsion out there.  There are things such as the 6-cycle engine that are so efficient that they need no cooling systems. The steam era lasted a century, it's time for the cast-iron internal combustion engine to do the same.

A trillion dollars or so in research grants ought to solve the problem..

Or exempt the auto companies from anti-trust regulations so that they can collectively work together on the next generation of efficient vehicle engine. Win-Win at no cost.

Let's see.   The Prius gets 50 MPG, tank after tank.   The car it replaced was lucky to get 25 overall.  That's double.   I know this doesn't solve the general case but I don't want all of that trillion dollars just a small percentage of it.

There's no reason why we couldn't devise 100 MPG Priuses with a quantum leap in engine technology. Imagine what Toyota, Ford and GM could come up together with if properly motivated to develop ceramic engines or whatever.

BTW, those Toyotas are selling like the proverbial hotcakes around here. I feel bad because the domestic manufacturers completely blew it on the interest in such a vehicle. Even Toyota thought it was a gamble. Not appropriate for me or what I need a vehicle to do. I drive a 7,700# 2002 F-250 diesel 4X4 usually running on 50% recycled restaurant grease. Right out of the fryers at the local drive-through. And even that is starting to get pricey. But I've seen up to 23 MPG out of it, empty, cruise locked at 60 and a tail wind. My previous '96 pickup got 10 MPG, uphill, downhill, in town and on the road.

The wife drives the 2000 Ford Focus 5-speed. Bought it new. 100K miles on it now. Fast enough not to get creamed when merging onto the freeway. Not a hybrid, but it consistently gets around 30 MPG. The Grand Cherokee stays at home now, unless the WX is nasty. Honestly, the Focus is fun to drive. Hauls arse and handles the roads very well. After so many years of driving large vehicles, I forgot how much fun one can be.

A guy I work with drives a Honda Insight hybrid,  claims to get near 77 MPG out of it if he keeps his foot out of it. Unreal. Weird looking streamlined car, fender skirts and all.

Bill,

The 50% restaurant grease you're using.   Are you gathering it, filtering it etc. yourself or does someone else do that and you get it from them?   Do the restaurants charge for it or are they still happy to have someone take it off their hands?   

With diesel at $4.00+ out here, I'd expect people with diesels to be fighting with each other over the french fry oil.

Jon   

I have been experimenting with my own little cooker over here in ZED.L.R. land it's fairly efficient i use this fellers method here:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor5.html

It works, and the garden tractor preforms as it should.

Now as far as a personal vehicle, i wouldn't own a diesel pickup anything I listen to the guys at work moaning their complaints about them it was enough for me not to buy one, my little Ranger does a pretty good job for what i need. I do like the stacks that some owners are putting in their beds though, looks kinda neat and sounds good...Pickup trucks with Smoke Stacks... 8)..


At this point as I have said before in different threads, the problems with the infrastructure are a given and Not changing anytime soon, and No One Person is going to save grace and change the way business is done today...No Way...Buisness never had it So Good...

The problem is the value of our currency and the little buying power we have. Change the Value, Change the Buying Power...It's that simple...

Who cares about the demand and the mechanics..The Suppliers don't care... ;D

The future electricity which will run my Am gear will be from the new Nuclear Safe Plants like the Westinghouse AP100 or the GE ESBWR plants which are currently either approved or in approval by the NRC. Plans are for 32 new plants in the US. If the Gov'ment does'nt screw around to long. Their last comment was" we don't have enough qualified reviewers". If they would tell the industry, " you can build either an approved AP1000 or ESBWR only the we could get the show on the road. As for OIL. Drill this country and build refineries on closed bases. Forget the corn based ethonal, use sugar cane and beets. They make more and better quality. Turn every swamp into a cane or beet field. Let get out of the import fule business and quit giving food stuffs away.
We need to be protectionist.
That way I can use my AM radio to hear the whining of the rest of the world about the food shortage...

Right on Jerry!
The traitors need to stop sending our money and jobs away.

Geothermal heat-pumps don't need a hot underground spring to operate.    Many are in use around PA.    They operate at the same efficiency as a regular heat-pump as if the air was at a constant temperature of 55 degrees (or whatever your year round ground temperature is).   The further the air conditioning/heating temperature is from 55 the better the efficiency is compared to an air heat-pump.   If you are heating with oil anywhere, it is cheaper to use a heatpump combined with electric.   The geothermal uses electric for quick heating if you turn up the thermostat more that 1 degree.    IF you just keep the heat at a constant temperature, you never need the backup heat.

I've been getting it for the last several years from a local rural diner. Pay them $1/gallon, I just pick it up in those 5-gallon 'totes' that they get the oil in, they only have to open the fryer drains and re-fill the containers.

I filter it through a couple sheets of paper towel in a metal funnel. Winter is a problem when it gels.

I expect this to end someday soon, you're right, collecting and recycling fry oil into biodiesel is becoming big business. The amount of fry oil that the McDonald's in California alone go through is staggering.

Even though Rudy Diesel used peanut oil for fuel (no Exxon back then), some modern diesels are more adaptable to burning straight vegetable oil than others. The Ford/International Powerstrokes since the 80s have the heads drilled with internal passages to feed the injectors, so the fuel is always hot. They also have an electric heater in the fuel filter bowl. Other diesels that use the traditional external high-pressure steel fuel lines leading to each injector are not so successful when it's cold outside.

Another issue is that the latest diesels use some outrageous injection pressures to improve efficiency. Now they're switching to piezoelectric powered injectors instead of the old mechanical ones to get some 50,000 PSI of fuel atomization. There's reports that vegetable oil polymerizes under those extreme pressures, ie, plugging up injectors. So you don't want to use more than 20%-30% of veggie oil. Especially important in the winter, but since late 2002, I have never, ever had a problem running up to 50%, even near zero F temperatures. Many truck diesels have electric block heaters, too.

The best bet right now is to use a late 90s or earlier diesel which just don't care what you dump into the fuel tank. Just filter the lumps out and let the high pressure fuel filter do the rest.

Sometimes Sam's or Costco have sales on bulk generic vegetable oil, usually it's soy or canola. There's no sales tax in Colorado on food. I'll grab 10 gallons if I happen to be there for something else and funnel it into my truck right in the parking lot. I get some funny looks...

My oil company sent a letter recently with an interesting proposal to lower oil prices. They suggest that oil can only be purchased by those that can actually take delivery of the oil, in other words remove oil from the commodities market. I doubt this will ever happen since it is so openly traded internationally but it does get you to thinking why the price is actually as high as it is, supply and demand do not change prices this rapidly but panick speculation does.

As far as the value of the dollar goes, true our deficit is not helping things but alot of the dollar devaluation has to do with the subprime loan disaster and it is now becoming apparent that this is not just a US problem it is just that other countries banks have been covering up their bad loans. I just heard that Credit Suise has come forth with their own data last week and they have risen to the top of the banks with bad loans. As pressure comes to bare on other countries to come clean you will see the value of the dollar rise against the Euro and other currencies and hopefully we will get a little relief in oil prices.

There was one lesson learned during the oil crises of the 80s and that was how effective raising CAFE standards were in reduceing gasoline demand. To facilitate this Detrioit rapidly adopted fuel injection and sophisticated engine management systems. This really made a difference and the right technology (powerful microprocessors) was becoming available at the right time. Today to get a similar improvement in fuel mileage technology to reduce vehicle weight while still maintaining safety such as advanced composites will have to be used. Other technologies such as Kinetic Energy storage devices are almost ready for mass production. I am not a fan of hybrid electric vehicles since they are manufactured at a monetary loss and the batteries are considered to be hazardous waste as well as requiring considerable energy to manufacture. We burn dirty coal to generate the electricity to fuel them so how good can they be for the environment.

Finally I think that if you can personally get along without driving a large truck or SUV for your daily transport, Cadillac Escalades and Lincoln Navigators drive me nuts, then you should do it. I do like the idea of changing the insurance laws so that you are not double billed if you own two vehicles, this would encourage those that need a work truck to drive it when necessary and then to drive a more economical vehicle when possible.

Mark,
My Rep. Joe Courtney is part of a bill to eliminate the skimmer trade in oil where you have to actually buy it if you trade in it. I have had a number of emails with him and appears to be on the ball. I wonder how bad it will need to get before the bill is actually considered. I think it was introduced 3 or 4 months ago. Many stations went past $4 in Ct. the past few days.
Might have for trash day at the White House to get anything done.


He does disagree with me on CFL lights but I am happy with his views on other subjects. I need to mail him on last night 60 minutes and the wet backs wanting to sue this country for free health care while they are in jail waiting for deportation. At Ellis Island they didn't keep you around for years they sent you away. 

90% of this immigration nonsense is just a wedge issue to distract the public from the real issues like the increasing costs of fuel, heating oil and food, and the devaluation of the dollar(ette).

I'm perfectly happy to see "wetbacks" out there cleaning toilets, harvesting tobacco and hauling the garbage from McBarfald's to the landfill.

Oh, I better run.  Time for the news.  Gotta catch the latest episode of the Brittney Spears meltdown, and see if Hillary is still enjoying her newly acquired taste for beer.

Check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-Hg6ntgqI

Not only insurance laws, but vehicle registration laws as well.  Even if I own a whole fleet of vehicles, I can only drive one at a time.  Once I buy a set of registration plates, I should be able to legally bolt them on to any vehicle I have a valid title to, and the insurance would automatically cover whatever vehicle is carrying those plates.

That's why God created Nevada, Don.

Oh, is that the location of the graveyards where the 3878 and 3892 crew have their pre-need burial plans?

Just going through the math, my '95 Dakota extended-cab gives me 20 mpg, and lets me haul plywood & kids & deer & anything else.  My daily commute costs me $8 right now. If I make this commute 250 times per year, that equals $2000 fuel costs per year.

 I bought it a last year, paid $4000 cash.  At my current rate of 10k miles per year, I could get 5 years out of it. Total cost of ownership, assuming gas stays where it is, would be $14k, over 5 years.

To determine the cost of a hybrid vehicle, I looked at ebay, for a used Prius.  I would probably need $16k to $20k for a 2004 or 2005 model,  and count on ditching it five years down the line when the batteries crap out.  If the Prius got 50 mpg, I'd spend $800 a year on gas, or $4000 over 5 years.  Total cost of the Prius would be $20k to $24k, not including financing costs, since I don't have the cash to pay for one.  

Assuming $24k for the Prius cost of ownership over five years, there is a $10k cost differential compared to my truck, or $2.5k per year.  Economically, it would only make sense for me to make the trade if gas increased past $11 a gallon.

Do the numbers.

73 - Dave

Scuse me -

'Assuming $24k for the Prius cost of ownership over five years, there is a $10k cost differential compared to my truck, or $2k  per year.  Economically, it would only make sense for me to make the trade if gas increased past $11 a gallon.'

fixed error.

It's a fool's errand to buy a new vehicle to save money.  The depreciation right off the lot will pay for a LOT of fuel  ;)

Commodity trading or market based pricing is what keeps us from sitting in long gas lines as many of us did in '72 and '74.   Long term contracts seem quaint now, but ham-handed regulation is far worse.  Sometimes bursting a bubble needs a little help by other means.

So given that it's the speculators and spot buying that's driving the price right now:

A little quiet diplomacy may or ought to be going on between a world's superpower and several middle east sattrapies run by family princes.
It could go like this:

"Say OPEC ol' buddies, maybe a lot more oil should be temporarily pumped to break the speculation bubble if say, ya'all don't want to be left to the mercy of some extreme, ah, religious sects in your part of the world."

"  Uh we might have to pull out all our forc.. ,er, ah, facilities in your part of the world.  Yeah, oil prices will definitely go wild, most likely way up,.... but then ya'all won't be around to celebrate the price hike, will ya?"  We might even have to actually hold you accountable for funding of such extremists as you have all along.  What's the difference to us if oil climbs to an extortionist price either way?"

"And, oh yeah, did ya'all know that all the gorgeous, brand new cities, highrises, artificial palm islands, other grand stuff your building can now be held to nucu..., er, terrorist blackmail standards jes like all our stuff in the western world?   Ah, you got an infrastructure and way of life to protect now.   Be a shame to see the whole middle east become another Lebanon."  "Why for the sake of radio in local publication standards, y'all might even lose ur radios."

Gee Rick,
That has a nice ring to it....Maybe they could get China to move in and keep peace.

Yeah, I've been watching too many Dr. Strangeglove movies lately, heh, heh.
- But price reflects instability. Bet the Romans wouldn't have had some of our problems.  ;D

As Irb would say, the traitors should be thrown in jail for treason. 

I have a friend at work who is running a 4 cylinder farm tractor exclusively on HHO and he claims it runs no different than good ole gas.  He built an electrolyzer and injects the HHO into the engine directly.  He had to change the timing on it as well but otherwise one wouldn't know the difference. 

If We All Started Driving Priuses, We'd Consume More Energy Than Ever Before.
While energy efficiency is laudable, history shows that it leads to people consuming more energy.

http://texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2749

Well, ya know I really miss my F-250, but, well, obvious demands rule the roost Here.

I have four more Semesters left for the Second daughter, the third daughter Graduates H.S. here in June and She'll be doing her thing this fall..So the old man gets little in the way of any kind of Manly Toys for awhile...But that little Ranger does preform rather well...Fuel usage isn't too bad, it'd prolly do better if i didn't get the off road package... ;D..But i have to allow myself a little indulgence... ;D even if it is a Shortie P/U...

I just wished My Da Gone Dollar would go just a little further...than it does...

Gosh Don.  Since when do your read Texas newspapers? The guy who does the fuel analysis for the state of California reported that year over year Ca used less gasoline than last year, not just per capita, flat out less. He attributed the decline to the change in the CA fleet to more efficient vehicles and singled out the Prius as a factor.  They are in abundance out here. As far as I know, he owns no stock in Toyota.

My wife and I do not drive more miles. We just give half as much money to the oil companies. They have plenty already as do their friends in Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, etc.

I agree with earlier commentators. Buying new cars to save money doesn't. But when you need a new car, buying one that uses half as much gas can save you money.

I have heard that the energy used in manufacturing the hybrid cars, specifically the hi-tech batteries, exceeds any energy savings that could be gained over the life of the vehicle....as compared to a gasoline only powered vehicle......Does anyone know the facts????

It's bunk.  This is an echo of a thoroughly discredited report called "Dust to Dust" put out by a marketing firm in Oregon. It purported to show that a Hummer was better than a Prius in life cycle energy consumption. This study was thoroughly discredited by everyone and his brother from Toyota to Treehugger.com. Just do a Google search on "Prius vs Hummer" and stand back. You'll get the whole scene from the original report, Prius bashers jumping in saying nah nah ni nah nah (George Will for example) to real science. Take your pick. I personally liked the assumption that a Hummer would last something like 350,000 miles and a Prius would last something like 100,000.  That makes sense. Toyota is known for making crappy cars.  Anyway.   It's nonsense.

It sure would make me happier if Ford or Chevy made a Prius.  I do have high hopes for the Volt.  But when it came to buying a car I decided it was more important to give less money to terrorists than it was to give more money to General Motors or Ford.

As I previously said here, it's truly regrettable that the last remaining American auto companies completely blew it with respect to efficient vehicles.

A Prius isn't everyones cup of tea, but they should have at least offered American consumers the option. Instead, we got the usual half-assed fluff out of Detroit.

What's the latest from Chevy...A hybrid Suburban? What idiots. What fools. Who is gonna pay an extra $10K for 4 or 5 extra MPG? Who buys a Suburban for the mileage? They could have put a Cummins or Mercedes 6-banger turbodiesel in the thing and gotten maybe 10 more MPG for a lot less money.

Oops. Did I mention GM and diesel in the same sentence?

I'd like a diesel-electric. all wheel drive like a locomotive, that is, the wheels are electric, and the engine turns an alternator at an efficient speed. If it is a large vehicle, then a small diesel APU could provide the air conditioning (and power for the 1500W AM rig) when the vehicle is sitting in traffic. It would take some doing I suppose to make a suspension and "wheel motors" for propulsion and regenerative braking with disc brakes for a backup and the actual stopping. I figure an average of 20HP rating on each wheel, peak rating of 100HP for acceleration and braking, and a good size battery, and everyone could use something like that if they wanted to. One thing looming in the future of used hybrids as they age will be the replacement of that battery and it won't be cheap.

I think it's nice that what leadership is in place is traveling and out of sight more or less..(by choice or Hiding)..?...not to start a Pol. Bashing contest.. or go Pol. but hey I could use a little reassurance of some type in my country... ::) was my country..used to be my country..at some point....

I'm not lost in assumed debt yet, but, dismayed in the lack of any Real Inspiring leadership.

Interesting you should mention that.  I wanted to buy a fuel efficient vehicle as a commuter car last year.  My preference was the Jetta diesel but it wasn't offered last year due to "new" import restrictions.  It seems Detroit convinced lawmakers to make diesels a little harder to import so that they could get a leg up.  It only took the Germans a year to meet these new higher standards.  It will probably take Detroit more than 3 years to "gear up".  Diesel really should not be as expensive as it is but the trucking industries dependency on diesel makes it easy for refiners to demand a higher rate.  I ended up buying a Civic Hybrid.  I heard on the radio this morning that gas is 3.96 in many locations around D.C.  It looks like this car will pay for itself a lot faster than I thought (I estimated five years) it would at those prices.

I'll continue to buy American because I'm American and like to employ Americans and like to keep the dollar in America.
F$$K the rest of the world as they would F$$K us every chance they get.

My next ride will do E85
I'm not going to spend big bucks to pay bigger bucks to plug it in at night for a charge. 

You need to have a reality check.  As for as consumer junk, where are you going to find anything not made in China.  Have you visited Wal-of-China Mart lately?

Even "American" cars like Ford and GM are full of parts made in Mexico and other 3rd world countries where they can get away with paying their employees 30¢ an hour, or in Japan where the quality is as good as or better than what is produced here.  Many "foreign" cars are made in USA.  Nissan, Toyletota... and now Volkswagen is actively looking for a site to open a factory in the US.  One of the attractions to build here I'm sure is the weak US dollarette, which allows them to pay substandard wages compared with what they would have to pay workers in Germany or Japan.

The last Yank Tank I bought was a Mercury Sable.  It was a comfortable ride and gave good service while it  lasted, but its gas mileage was nothing to write home about, and it crapped out before 140K miles.  Every piece of Jap Crap I have ever owned, new or used, has lasted at least to 180K.  We now have two Mazdas, one with 110K and the other with 150K, and shooting for at least 200K each.

Just like ceiling fans and plastic radio appliances, they don't make 'em in USA like they once did.  I'd bet Ten-Tec's latest rigs are full of parts made in Malaysia and Taiwan.

Thermal Conversion Process, or TCP.
"With TCP, the 6 billion tons of agricultural waste could theoretically be converted into 4 billion barrels of oil."

http://www.changingworldtech.com/what/index.asp

I certainly agree with the sentiment. However, I think the present choices are sending the money to Japan for a fuel efficient car or sending it to Saudi Arabia for the oil.  I chose Japan. Maybe later the options will be better. 

A friend got an E85 car. Out here E85 doesn't exist. 

SunPower, the company that made the solar panels I got, shifted production from the US of A to the Philippines. I apparently got the last of the US of A panels. At least that's what the installer said. He could have been making it up.

To keep this from being a complete downer, here's a US company leading the charge for cheaper solar panels. They've built a big factory right here in America. Thin film solar should be a lot cheaper than the stuff I have on my roof but the efficiency is about half.  You need a big roof.

http://www.nanosolar.com/

Don,
Never been in a wallmart is it nice?

Wallmart is nice pse check out this.... ..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/billadams/321845104/

I think this thread needs some good news.   I already mentioned Nanosolar, brilliant guys with the most sophisticated solar panel factory in the world and it's right here in America.

http://www.nanosolar.com/

Here's a company building a factory in Nevada. That's in the US, isn't it?  Ausra makes concentrating solar. They claim much of the power for the whole US of A could be generated by concentrating solar in Arizona (also in the USA) and Nevada. We'd need some big wires though.

http://www.ausra.com/

Then there are these guys, some of the smartest guys on the planet when it comes to batteries. They are in Massachusetts, another one of the 50 states:

http://www.a123systems.com/#/home/phev

In 1995 I bought an American made Honda Accord.    I few years later I traded in my foreign made Chevy Impala (Canada) for an American made Mazda Tribute.    Both American made cars with Japanese names are running perfectly.   The Chevy took two engines to get to 100K miles.

Hybrids IIRC are made in Japan but regular Civics, Accords, etc...are made in the good ole US of A by Honda of America (short titled HAM).  They are required by law to have manufactured 98% of their parts in the US.  My mother worked for one of their parts suppliers for quite some time.  HAM employs a lot of Americans just like Nissan and Toyota plants located in the US.  A US car manufacturer can farm 70% or better of their work out to Mexico or the Phillipines and still say that their car is "made in the USA".  Made in the USA doesn't mean what it used to with US car manufacturers.   :(

Profit goes where?

The same place an American mfg's goes, shareholders, overpaid executives, etc....

I have owned diesel cars and a Vanagon since 1978, all VW, and gotten good life, and excellent mileage. Even the slug vanagon got 28 MPG, could barely climb a hill. I was the third owner, drove it across country, added 150K miles and sold it for half of what I invested, $1800, to a french fry oil fan in California. My present commuter car is a 2002 Jetta wagon - gets 42 MPG, about 650 miles on a tank, so i fill it 12 times a year on average. I do have a Toyota tacoma, which is needed for my other main hobby, camping, hauling our kayaks and raft, exploring the countryside, & hauling boat anchors. The last Toyota i had, was a 1992 4 Runner, and I put 200K miles on it before i sold it to a kid who was heading to Alaska in it. Hope he made it....

Couple of years ago in Belize I rode in a guys turbo diesel Tacoma. I forget the model, but it was an impressive hill climber. Not available in the states, yet. When I go to Europe for business, I always get a diesel car, they are the most common there now. I think autos have become an international commodity anymore, not something that one touts for their patriotism, but one that is judged on technology, reliability, and cost of operation, as well as purchase cost. Detroit automakers lost the ability to produce at least three of these points years ago.

The diesel models + hybrids are coming soon, about 10 models, to the states, check out a recent Business Week article. These may make a big difference, as long as the emissions are well controlled.
http://tinyurl.com/3jv7tf
 

Coskata Inc., developer of a unique process that uses specialized bacteria to produce cellulosic ethanol announced Friday it will begin construction for the first production facility to demonstrate the process.

The demonstration plant will start early next year and run 24 hours a day to produce about 40,000 gallons of cellulosic ethanol derived from almost any organic waste material, including agricultural waste and municipal garbage that might normally be placed in landfill.

Coskata’s facility will be located at the site of the Westinghouse Plasma Center, a research facility focused on exploring new-energy uses for plasma beyond its current industrial applications. The high-energy plasma gasifies the organic material into synthetic gas – largely carbon dioxide and hydrogen – which Coskata’s patented bioorganisms literally feed on, making ethanol as a byproduct.

They claim that this process generates vastly more net-energy than that of producing ethanol derived from corn.

Coskata’s process can generate enough ethanol to be produce as much as 7.7 times more energy than the process requires, while ethanol produces from corn delivers a maximum of about 1.3 times the energy required to produce it. Coskata says its unique process can generate about 100 gallons of ethanol from a single dry ton of waste material, compared with about 67 gallons of ethanol that can be squeezed from a ton of corn.

http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/04/gm-ethanol-part.html

Don said:
Interesting, we were supposed to grow/ferment and isolate that bacteria on a large scale in our fermentation facility. We currently have 20 20K gal. and 1 40K gal. fermentors sitting idle (with the exception of some BTI spores we are making). Something fell through. We seemed to be on line for this product but then negotiations abruptly ended.

We started turning off the furnace when we don't need hot water so it doesn't have to run every couple hours. We are down to about 3 hours by just adjusting showers and dishwasher runs back to back with a couple hot loads in the washing machine.

I hope this doesn't have unintended consequences like the introduction of gypsy moths, africanised killer bees, Asian lady bugs, or the re-introduction of white-tail deer to middle TN.

Imagine if that bacteria got loose into the environment and contaminated and destroyed or modified all the earth's yeasts useful for brewing beer, so that the product ended up tasting like gasoline?

  "  so that the product ended up tasting like gasoline  "

Guess i'd hafta drink more to forget the taste...................  klc

For insights into that and other questions concerning U.S. trade policy, I recommend you read "The Japan That Can Say No", co-written by Sony chairman Akio Morita and politician Shintaro Ishihara. Although unauthorized translations are widely available, Morita had his part of the book withheld from the "official" U.S. edition.

73,

Bill, W1AC

I think that happened years ago. Haven't you ever tasted Bud LIght?

Bill

Recycled beer.

I have a Honda auto and it was built in Japan and that was my intent to get a car built overseas.  As much as I'd like to keep the money in the US, I had to think of my own benefit first. Call me paranoid. I had many a vehicle built in the US over the years only to have stupid inconvenient problems and get screwed by the dealer having them repaired.  After 8 years since my that new car purchase, not a single problem.  Maybe this is the exception rather than the rule but it gave or gives me piece of mind.

On the flip side, I bought a used 94 Ford Ranger with 100K miles on it 6 years ago. It's my daily ride. I don't know how much of it was built in or out of the US.  Excluding items expected to wear out like the alternator, water pump and normal maintenance items like brake pads, tires, etc., it has been very reliable. Replaced the ball joints a few months ago and it's solid again handling wise. It now has 230K miles and still going strong.  The body is horrible but it's reliable and gets 23mpg.  My Ranger is a tool, not a jewel and it owes me nothing.

My 88 chevy truck went 144k before it was rear ended. 1 battery, a brake job, a radiator and an exhaust system.
My 2001 chevy has 110 miles. 1 battery, 1 set of tires, 1 brake job, knock on wood running strong and I got 20 MPG going to Deerfield with a 5.3 V8 a couple weeks ago.

The Ford Ranger is a FB truck. I bought a new one w/ a 2.9L V6 in '87, sold it a few years ago to a family friend in AZ. Got an email the other day to let me know it passed 300,000 miles. Now, I really babied it when I owned it, synthetic oil and all, but it's only needed a heater fan, a replacement 5-speed tranny (made by Mazda), and cooling fan clutch over the last 20 years.

I just saw a news story that Toyota Prius sales just passed a million. I'd fire every one of the senior management of GM and Ford for having a terminal case of cranio-rectalitis.

No golden parachutes, either.

I mean, who in their right mind would want to buy a comfortable, reliable general purpose sedan that got near 50 MPG, when you could buy one that got half that mileage?

My Ranger has the 5spd Mazda tranny too.  I thought I toasted it a couple of years ago when it went dry because of leak I didn't know I had.  Apparently there are seals for the shifter where the fluid will leak by when the seals harden and the fluid will drip down toward the back of the tail shaft.  With turbulence underneath the vehicle one would not know the leak existed.  So I ran the tranny dry one day.  I thought I was screwed when the thing started making a groaning sound.  Refilled the tranny up and got the shifter seals replaced and I'm up to 230K miles.  It has a noisy input shaft bearing and 3rd gear today but it's still cranking along.

I have an 05 it'sa neat little truck...  :D  no complaints from here...

ah $4.03 for gas today. I love it.

Hey, on yesterdays Noon News...The Econ. Feller stated that: The Daily price of a barrel of oil only effects the cost at the pump 6 weeks later..

So six weeks ago the price of a barrel was.?

paying $4.699 here for diesel, with 3 service trucks rolling, I get to suck up $1500 a week of the OPEC gold.

The poor CEO of Exxon was on NBC Friday complaining that they only make 10% profit.....poor thing is so sorry prices are up. Let us see double the cost do the same work double profit.
All Clinton's fault

Well it's really ingenious Frank if you think about it.... set the laws up in the country that you want exorbitant amount of Profit from, that, use the "Green" Theology to steer drilling, processing, and transport off shore and Control the Spigot when delivering too.... it's all relative...

And the cats in Sudia Arabia "in the Media" flipped off the Bushman...I envy the Contrast.....They'll pay Four...They'll pay five... ;D

Then install a little monkey in the white house.

Only thing left to do is disarm the population. Watch the S.C. on DC gun laws.
I'm sure won't come out till after November.
Yea, we are free...free to pay out the a$$.
I was working with some people from Canada this week and it is interesting comparing the price of health care and gas with them. They don't support the begging world and the crooks in the middle east so their government isn't 10T in the hole.

Oh Frank..it's just beginning OM, France and Germany are Broke under the cover of the Euro...BMW will need to move to America or somewhere to Produce because of the Deficit......Someone Sequestered the Fed on the Amount of Cash in circulation...it's a Laugh...there's not enough on hand OM...it's getting interesting globally, because of the ""Possible"" threat of Non payment on the interest we owe everybody.........it's gona go Global Financially....

Wow...$135 a barrel this morning. No stopping it from $150-$200 by this winter.

I'm definitely switching  to the electric boiler this summer. The job will cost me $1,500, but there's no question about doing it now.

OR I'm moving to a little cabin in the woods, starting a little solar garden and becoming a hermit.

The Fed is just a front for the banks to provide maximum profit for banks.

Get yourself a smart electric water heater. $330 at home depot. How do you figure $1500. I put electric heat in the new QTH for $500.
man I'm glad R35 in the walls and R67 overhead.

Argo 40,000 to 50,000 BTU 240V, 90A electric boiler is about $1300 which matches the outpoot of my existing system. Misc plumbing stuff and etc takes it to maybe $1,500...Unless you've got a deal for me!

Man, 90 amps that is some QRO. 1 KW is  about 3000 btu
sounds like 60 amps would do it.

I have heard speculation that the same conditions that caused the housing crisis in USA also exist in Europe and it's just a matter of time till the faeces hit the fan there too.  The result will be a devalued Euro and strengthening of the $US.

But nothing to be joyful about. If true, then both currencies won't be worth the paper they are printed on.

In this morning's paper, the currency exchange rate showed the Canadian dollar to be worth about $1.02 US, or conversely, the $US is worth only about $0.98 Canadian.

With our fast cars, handheld computers and digital television sets, it's easy to feel better off than the previous generation. But there's more to prosperity than electrical goods - and in many ways today's 30 and 40-somethings are worse off than their parents.

It's not much of a legacy is it? It seems our children will pay the price for our debt-fuelled consumer spending spree. But if they won't inherit any wealth from their cash-strapped parents, at least they might inherit a more responsible attitude to money. Let's hope so, for all our sakes.

http://money.uk.msn.com/consumer/article.aspx?cp-documentid=8348191

I've been working with some customers from Canada. We have been comparing notes on prices and services......welcome to America the new third world.

I burn about 2 gallons of fuel a year to proccess my heating fuel
and spend about $550, for the raw, solid fuel I burn for heat.

That's for an almost uninsulated, 2000sqft house, in Verminmont.

I could not even consider burning propane or oil for heat...
It would be more like $700-1000 a month easily.

Bad enough, my wife works 8 miles from home, and it costs $50 a month JUST for gas to get to and from work.
(she's been riding her bike to work at least once a week now)


I don't know how you guys living in the more populated areas are able to deal with it......
What would your neighbors who live 10 feet on either side of you think if you fired up a wood-boiler?

Of course, those are all but outlawed here in Verminmont now.....

Oh, I guess you can still run one if it was installed by April 1, 2008... but, if you install one now, it has to meet the emission standards...!( these are $9,000 and up... the old ones were $2,000 and up)

These are the out-door boilers.... I guess you can burn whatever smoky, stinky crap you want to if your stove/boiler is INSIDE your house.... but OUTSIDE your house is a different story....
(By the way, for those of you not familiar with a wood-burning stove....the smoke ALL goes outdoors!!)

One more way of grabbing some extra $$ from those trying to get around buying oil...

The best explanation of the sub-prime now credit meltdown I've heard is an episode of This American Life of all things. That's about the last place I'd look for information but there it is, a collaboration with the business editors of NPR which answered many of the questions I had about how this came to pass.   

The episode is called "Giant Pool of Money" 
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1242

I'm contemplating replacing my existing and 7 year old boiler with  a multi-fuel boiler that can burn wood, coal and fuel oil.  Anyone have any experience with multi fuel furnaces?  I have no idea what the cost would be for the furnace and the labor to install or what to expect in return.  Like some thoughts.

Stick and brick Homes are still Stick and brick Homes are still Stick and brick Homes..

The Value placed on any design however manipulated by design, is was and always will be a misguided allusion. The Paper wealth generated by the few that generated interest by the many on regeneration of wealth buy sell, and led many more into the allusion of worth by design and location, brought about it's own demise by over blown projected worth.

Again, a Stick and brick home is Still just a Stick and Brick home...

..There's only one way to handle this:

a Groucho Crescendo...:

...." quite obviously ladies and gentlemen the plus and minuses only lead to one concept..on demand luberisity.. :o..there isn't a body on this rock that will ever wear anything out that creates it's own lubrication......"...now wouldn't that fuel your Falcon...Ford your Falcon....Ok forget the Falcon....LOL.....

I don't know who Aster and Harmon are but they appear to be idiots. The world wide demand for oil is about 86,000 barrels a day. The current production is at 85,000. Not too hard to figure that one out.

if yer money is not already stashed in the mayonnaise jar buried under the house, it might be a good time to put it there for a bit.

Futures trading will eventually lead to a bad end like a ponzi scheme.

>>>if yer money is not already stashed in the mayonnaise jar buried under the house, it might be a good time to put it there for a bit.<<<

oh no no no no!  With the price of commodities  steadily increading, paper money just keeps losing its value.  Best to convert yer greenbacks into sumpin that is increasing in value, like copper wire, especially if that copper wire is 132 feet long, and suspended between 2 trees....

It is interesting to look at the exchange rate of dollars vs. Euros.  For the past 4 years, the dollar has steadily lost value.  If you continue the trend, by 2012, the dollar will actually have NEGATIVE value compared to the Euro.  Imagine that!  In 2012, you go to a VW dealer, and they will FORCE you to take a new car - ONLY if you accept a shoebox full of $100s along with it.  The future is a wacky place.

73 - Dave NM0S