The AM Forum

I hear everyone talking about Deoxit to clean switches and controls. I was looking on the CAIG Labs web site and there seems to be a lot of different type of Deoxits ??? for a range of prices from 14.95 to 21.95 for a spray can. In the aerosol cans they show types D5, DN5, D100. What is recommended for normal boatanchor restores?Has anyone found a good source for this or do you buy it direct from CAIG Labs?

Hi Randy how are you,

 To be honest...myself i don't buy into the deoxit program..for the contents recieved and what is payed for it never balances out..and there is the shelf life to consider..of course this is my opinon..But i do use a CRC brand cleaner it doesn't seem to melt things and Paint...only done outside of course when needed.. I do use rubbing Alcohol alot and i do my lubricating by hand and not spray..it's something that i like to do...you do have to be careful which Deoxit you use though..

my 2cts om.73..

I've used the D5 stuff for years. Seems to work very well on switch contacts and controls. There's a flea market vendor that travels the  Northeast/mid-Atlantic circuit selling them for $5.00 a can.

Very good info. Thanks.
73, Randy, W5KCM

For years, I have used WD-40.  It works better than any contact cleaner I have ever tried.

My AF gain control on my 75A-4 used to be noisy.  I would use cleaner that was specifically designed for cleaning controls; it would work for 2-3 months and then the control would gradually become noisy again.

As a  last resort, I tried WD-40, before changing out the pot.  That quietened it, and now after 10 years, it is still quiet.  Since then, I have used nothing else on switches and controls.  The oily residue evaporates, leaving behind a film of dry lubricant.

I have never had it to dissolve any kind of plastic.

Well I'm up and listening...there must be a front coming through man my legs are aching...wow..

Anyhow,

 WD's great stuff.. it works well..If I were a bench Tech today cycling equipment on demand hey by all means spend the money and follow Deoxit's program they have a multitude of sprays and work at differing applications..i won't say the stuff doesn't work...you can recoup your costs at that level, or the Shop pays for it and what do you have invested....

 On our level, rebuilding things and maintenance..be frugal... what's the hurry...be clean about your work...and a big thing Take the spray nozzle off when your done..some of these answers to a tech's intermittent's.."Leak" at the nozzle..Can dissipation shelf life... you put it up and a month or two later when you reach for it and it's empty you'll kick yourself to like I've done....

 I never liked to just "Spray" a component in circuit.. not only have you sprayed it but all surrounding devices and cabinetry are whetted....yea it may solve a problem but is this good work  ..it's your device make that call when needed..

 I like Alcohol for cleaning good soapy Hot water and so forth,..i like sprays for dissolving flux and circuit dirt and residue..

 

I use wd 40 followed with a blasts of 150 psi air after letting it sit a minute or 2 on pots and rheostats,  tarn x on silver plated tank coils, switches.

*note* REALLY IMPORTANT to get all the liquid carrier out before you apply any juice. that's why the air. For solder flux use a dedicated flux removal spray.

I have never had any problem with the liquid carrier causing any problems, but I normally use the little hollow tube to direct the spray at the target component.  The AF gain pot doesn't have enough voltage on it to cause any problem, and I try to wipe away any visible liquid with a cloth.  It usually evaporates on its own accord in a short while.

Since WD-40 is recommended by the manufacturer for high voltage applications like cleaning moisture condensation from distributor caps, I wouldn't think it would cause any electrical problems if it stands up to tens of kilovolts in automotive ignition systems.

I have a large heavy duty rotary inductor in one of my antenna tuners.  It uses a sliding contact instead of a roller, and it would arc and spark ever time I tried to adjust it while it was carrying RF, even though I had cleaned the contact area  to a bright copper finish using steel wool (the coil is unplated).  I lubricated it with WD-40, and it has never sparked since.

I've used WD-40 on many things, but never thought of it as a control cleaner/lubricator.  Thanks, Don, I'll give it a shot.  (pun intended!)

Rick/K5IAR

I have a several cans of the original Caig D5 and R5 stuff, before they changed their formulations because of the freon issue years ago. They used to call it cramolin. Their old stuff works a lot better than what Caig is producing today.

I've used the D5 and the Dn5 and I like the Dn5 because it's close to their earlier D5.

After giving up looking for Caig products in local electronics stores , I found a can of De-oxit D5 stuff at my local GUITAR CENTER store. They had most of the line of Caig products. It works well on volume and switch contacts,
without melting plastic parts.
Mike

There is alot of effective choice's to make out there, in consideration of your shop environment mind your air space..I'm no environmentalist and i liked the older D5 like Bob.. but mind your ventilation with these Spray Chemicals...

Caig's DeOxit "D5" formulation, which I believe is a 5% solution, is my best all-around contact cleaner.  I have many years' experience using it at work and home, from the days of red and blue Cramolin liquid in the little jars to the current products, and it has always done a good job with no bad side effects. 

I always make an effort to put the cleaner only on the contact points in question, if I can.  I spray some into a plastic 35m film can and keep it on the bench, and use a small screwdriver or other probe to pick up a drop to put onto contacts directly.  But I also don't hesitate to spray D5 directly into a slide-switch assembly or potentiometer where I can't see the contacts - works great.

I do know a few guys who have used the thicker D100 and other spray and liquid products on relays and had some trouble - they put so much on and let it dry there that it "glued" the contacts together!   But that's the only negative experience I know of with DeOxit or Cramolin, and I would consider that human error actually.

Steve WD8DAS

>they put so much on and let it dry there that it "glued" the contacts together!   

I should have mentioned that when I came along to help in these situation I used D5 to help clean the other stuff out and all was well...

Steve WD8DAS

>Has anyone found a good source for this

I usually buy it online from MCM Electronics on sale for about $12 a can.

Radio Shack sells a pack of two small aerosol canisters in their stores, DeOxit and ProGold.  It is expensive there, but convenient.  It is their number 64-4338.

Steve WD8DAS

You can now buy directly from Caig too.  The last time I looked they didn't have direct sales.  Not sure if there's a cost benefit by going direct.

Steve, do you run a business?  The reason I ask is MCM will not sell chemicals unless the buyer produces a tax ID number.  I've been denied many at time because I'm purchasing them for my own personal use.

I don't understand their logic. Everyone else will sell to a non-business.

I went through their online ordering process, after I clicked on several chemical items, and no where did they ask for a tax ID number. There are five states where they can charge Sales Tax.  "The Company charges local sales tax for OH, NV, MN, CA, and IN, unless Customer has a valid sales tax exemption certificate on file with the Company" Your tax ID number would have to be included on the certificate.

In the past, I've ordered chemicals from Antique Electronic Supply, MCM, and Parts Express, and never was I asked for a tax ID number.

Lots of good info. Thanks. I will give the WD40 a try and see how that goes. Someone years ago gave me a case of this RCI Aerosol Maintenance contact cleaner and it has worked well over the years but it is about gone.
73

It should work to make up a fake tax number and submit it, unless you are in one of the states where they are required to charge tax.  If your state is exempt, no-one could claim that you were attempting any kind of tax fraud.  They can charge tax only to customers in states where the company has a "physical presence".

In the past I have used a fake business name like "KYV Consulting Associates" with my mailing address and printed out a letterhead in order to obtain merchandise from companies that that had policies not to sell to individuals, and it worked. 

I never could understand that logic.  Individuals pay with exactly the same kind of money that businesses do.

1. Submitting fake information is a crime.
2.  They require information proving your a business because many of the chemicals used in our hobbies can also be used to manufacture illicit narcotics.  Think MCM is the norm, try ordering with a San Diego, Ca address.
3.  Most distributors won't sell to private persons because they are "distributors" or wholesale outlets.  Some of them carry contracts with their legit businesses that require them to NOT compete (non-compete clauses).  Besides, it's bad business to sell to your customers, and their customers as well.

It's the law, a crime, and basic business sense.  Not to say that I'm not guilty of doing the same, although...... :)


--Shane

Years ago, the local electronics parts store wouldn't sell tubes and small parts to individuals because they had an agreement with the radio/TV repair shops, who wanted to sell the material at a 100% markup, so you had to order from Allied, Burstein-Applebee or one of the other mail-order vendors.  Finally, they did agree to sell to licensed hams, but a friend of mine told me they wouldn't sell him a set of sweep tubes for a rig, even though he showed them the handbook article for the construction project.

Back when Roger and I published The AM Press/Exchange, we would sometimes use that name as our "business" when it was to our advantage.  I  suppose it was a legitimate business, but we never took out any kind of licence or paid any taxes on it, and  besides, we were lucky to ever break even when we published an issue.

I think the only way you could actually get into trouble for falsely claiming a business to purchase stuff would be if you tried to avoid paying a legitimate tax or otherwise defraud someone out of money or merchandise.

Besides, it wouldn't be worth their while to pursue it unless it involved a large amount of money.

I have an Ace in the hole here, a little electronics supply house over in McKeesport Pa. Barno Electronics..he sells all sorts of things and has a very good supply of chemicals on hand..and even sells online..and a goodly choice in Toobies.. ;)

http://www.barnoelectronicscorp.com/

give him a call guys. 800-821-8785

I have in years past bought off of MCM and even traveled to their warehouse down in stubenville..He likes to move volume though...

It has to do with having distributors and their ability to interface more easily with the public. If you sell to the public as well, your distributors won't have much incentive to bother. Since most larger businesses aren't set up for individual sales, it makes sense for them to deal directly with someone else who can interface with the 500 single sales rather than to waste their time. Basically, the distributors do a lot of the annoying legwork and paperwork for you.

As far as the original topic, I've used the DeOxit D5 (Red) and their CaiLube MCL (Blue) for maintaining gear over the last coupla decades, and it works great. Seems they are both the offspring of Cramolin, used in the broadcast and other related industries for years, although not as concentrated as the originals.

The one thing I noticed with the D5 is having to re-treat some controls within a year or so. Their CaiLube (now called FaderLube to appeal to the audio crowd) was described in such a way that it seemed like the better choice for pots. Picked up a can and was very pleased with the results. A small shot fixes most controls, but for problem children, a shot of D5 worked into the control followed later by a shot of the blue stuff seems to do the trick.

WD-40 is the Duct Tape of the aerosol spray world, but doesn't stick around long and you end up re-treating whatever was acting up. It works in a pinch, and is also great for de-gunking things and getting them moving again. Always follow up with a real lube on things like gears and other metal-to-metal contact surfaces. IIRC, WD stands for Water Displacement, which is no doubt why it works well on wet ignition wires, distributor caps, and so on. It wasn't really meant as a lubricant anymore than duct tape was meant to hold car fenders together, but.... ;)


 

Trichloro-ethylene in a CO2 propellant. Read the label.

That's what the CRC Electronic Cleaner is.

It's also the same formula found in many brake parts cleaners in auto parts stores at a cheaper price (less than $2.00 per can).

It leaves no residue but does not lubricate as the De-Oxit does but mucho cheaper.

I agree it is not the best lubricant for mechanical parts, nor is it the best penetrating oil for frozen or  stuck screws.  But for me, it is the best contact cleaner I have ever used.  The noisy controls stay quiet, and intermittent switches stay functional, while with commercial contact cleaner, allegedly designed for the purpose, the improvement is short lived at best.

I remember when I  lived in Cambridge, MA, back in the 70's, there were loads of old Volvos or Saabs (can't remember which), that looked like miniature versions of 1952 Fords.  90% of those cars appeared to have had one of the fenders cut off with tin snips, and then re-attached with duct tape.

Volvo PV444

Jack said:
I'm with you Jack. Around here Moyer's electronics carries all the MCM and Caig stuff. If they don't have it, they can get it for you usually at the price you could pay for it off the internet, (with shipping). I'm all in favor of using local parts jobbers.  http://www.moyerelectronics.com/ (http://www.moyerelectronics.com/)

My first cans of the red stuff were aerosol and my next can was the pump (which I despised at first). After using each type, I can report that there are times when you need each type so now I buy one can of each!

The stuff is expensive, but it is a real help in a vintage station full of tired oxidized components.

How much would 92 octane gas be if you put in in a fancy spray can?

Mike WU2D

 

The thing is what works and if your happy that's good, I don't do as much restoring as I did at one time, therefore the Deoxit Program is really not cost effective for me, like I said I won't say it doesn't work...just the program is a waste of good product for it to sit to long..and if you follow some of their line that's Great..Use it up..Try these things out..WD's FBOM..and there are differing flavors on the brake cleaners..But I do confess. when i'm Cleaning..Cap Plates etc...things that need the hand oils um Greases etc,  boiled out that brake cleaner is the bees knees...it's Stinks alot though..Big problem in a small shop...and then I'll go back after drying and Lube..

Now another good question is what's everybody using in todays market for a lube I'd like to read up on a Good Electronic Component Grease...

It's not a lubricant at all, and was never meant to be. In fact, it's a solvent for many lubricants, particularly silicon-based ones.

Back when I was still in the repair biz, there was a VCR that came through our shop that was siezed up solid. The tape extraction arms (that pull the tape out of the cassette and wrap it around the head) were jammed in place, surrounded by metal shavings and reeking of WD-40.

So the call was made to (whomever makes WD-40) and didn't have to get transferred too many times before we got someone who could tell us exactly what WD-40 would do to DuPont Lube Gel (the lube the manufacturers use): turn it into DuPont Drip Juice. He also re-iterated numerous times that WD-40 is not a lubricant, it's an ultra-light oil for displacing water.

This was followed by a phone call to the "repair" shop that previously had the unit, the guy confirmed that he used WD-40 for just about everything, "why not?".

This info was handed to the customer, who then handed it to her lawyer, who then sued the guy, who then had to close his business when his other customers found out that his use of WD-40 not only made their VCRs (hissette decks, CD players, turntables, you name it) stink up the house, but was also the reason they all stopped working altogether within a few days or weeks of getting them back from him.

I almost felt bad for the guy until I found out how much stuff he'd wrecked, and how he'd misled his customers about his knowledge and experience.

Also: never use WD-40 on or anywhere near any plastic or rubber parts (like plastic potentiometers or rubber drive belts). It will slowly eat plastic, and dehydrate rubber. In both cases, you eventually wind up with a pitted, brittle, useless mess.

The best use for WD-40 in electronics is as a flamethrower to kill wasps in the shop.

--Thom
Kilowatt Amplifier One Zero Grid Current

WD-40 is not a lubricant, it's an ultra-light oil for displacing water.

thats where they got the name  it was a water displacement experiment

water displacement oil batch 40...

look it up

Ok, maybe I should not use the WD-40. :-\ I have heard horror stories of folks using some kind of electronic spray cleaner and all the plastic started disintegrating.  :'(
Thanks for all the info...seems like the best bet is to get some Deoxit D5. Should be effective and safe except to breathe.  Keep it going. I will check in from time to time and read. Thanks & 73, Randy... BTW, been making a few contacts,CW on the old Heath AT-1.
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/wb5kcm/sets/72157603797664318/
Listen close for me on 3561.1 KCs.

Maybe that's why it has always worked for me.  The only electronic stuff I have ever used it to clean was built in the 50's or earlier, when they used mostly metal, and the most common plastic was bakelite.  It quietened the mode switch on my 75A-4 as well as the AF gain pot.  If it were ever going to disintegrate either one of those, they would never have made it for the 10 years that have passed since I last used it to clean them.

Another item I have successfully used it on is toggle switches, the kind that use the metal handle, metal frame and stacked bakelite wafers with soldering lugs on the back.

I have found bakelite immune to almost any solvent, including paint stripper, but  never try to clean anything made of any kind of phenolic with cleansers like 409 or Fantastik.  Those agents will dissolve the glossy skin and leave the filler exposed, rendering it impossible to restore the sheen.  I ruined a set of antique National vernier bakelite dials when I cleaned them with the stuff.

Don said:
Those tend to be ammonia based. You want to avoid using anything with ammonia in it on stuff that is acrylic. Also with regards to WD-40, it does have some lubricating properties, so be careful how much you use since lubricants have a tendancy to act as dust magnets.

If it works on Atlas rockets, should work fine on other "boatanchors".  ;)


From Wikipedia.com

WD-40
WD-40 is the trademark of a widely used penetrating oil (cleaner, lubricant and anti-corrosive solution) spray. It was developed in 1953 by Norm Larsen (then working for the Rocket Chemical Company) to eliminate water and prevent corrosion.[1] The product is currently sold for many household uses. WD-40 stands for Water Displacement, 40th formula. Larsen was attempting to concoct a formula to prevent corrosion by displacing water, and arrived at the formula on his 40th attempt.[1]WD-40 was first used by Convair to protect the outer skin of the Atlas missile from rust and corrosion.[1] The product first became commercially available on store shelves in San Diego in 1958.[1

Formulation
Main ingredients, from the material safety data sheet, are:
50%: Stoddard solvent (mineral spirits, somewhat similar to, but not the same as, kerosene)
25%: Liquefied petroleum gas (presumably as a propellant, carbon dioxide is used now to reduce considerable flammability)
15+%: Mineral oil (light lubricating oil)
10-%: Inert ingredients
The German version of the mandatory EU safety sheet lists the following safety relevant ingredients:
60-80%: Heavy Naphtha (petroleum product), hydrogen treated
1-5%: Carbon dioxide

Why Not To Smash A Can Of WD-40
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/darwin-at-work
(turn audio off - not family safe)

You can use it, just use it very carefully. It's good for cleaning relay contacts.

Like Don was saying, if the rig (and all its components) are of sufficient age, you won't run into too much trouble.

Timtron must go through a case a week of the stuff, he uses it for everything from wirewound pots to incinerating wasps to carpentry projects. Wouldn't suprise me if he gargled it in the morning.

Name one radio problem where he didn't advise the person to "spritz-douche everything with WD, fatten up the coupling caps, and wrap negative feedback around everything". If the rig's old enough, WD won't do any real damage.

Just be mindful of its drying and solvent properties, keep it away from rubber, modern plastics, and printed circuits, and you'll be fine.

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

I ruined a multi wafer switch with contact cleaner that left a residue and developed a carbon track which eventually burned a portion of a wafer to a cinder. I can't remember if it was DeOxIt or some other stuff.  But I concluded that it is important to remove extraneous residue from areas where large amounts of voltage are present.