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THE AM BULLETIN BOARD => QSO => Topic started by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 09:09:49 PM



Title: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 09:09:49 PM
I know this is pushing it but did you guys hear the USAF is going to buy Air Bus planes to be used as tankers.
WTF is wrong here???


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: David, K3TUE on March 02, 2008, 09:14:24 PM
I know this is pushing it but did you guys hear the USAF is going to buy Air Bus planes to be used as tankers.
WTF is wrong here???

I guess the question is, "Is it the job of American government agencies to find a way to funnel American tax dollars to American companies?", or "Is it their job to buy a contract that gets the American taxpayer the best product for the least money?"

If Boeing lost the contract, then perhaps the only question is, "What is wrong with Boeing?"


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 09:22:56 PM
may I remind you of my 1966 GE alarm clock. It seems to be fine again if the pin is pulled quickly. XYL bought a back up chink clock wanna bet which one will live longer.
I was writing a nasty letter to my rep this morning at about 5:30. I don't care if it costs twice as much at Boeing. Maybe we could outsource our CIA to Putin he seems pretty smart. Maybe we could outsource the president to Chavez since he has cheap gas. How about border security to the Mexicans.
I wonder if the French will be taxed to pay for the new planes since Boeing people will be out of work. WTF


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: flintstone mop on March 02, 2008, 09:26:35 PM
It's the same problem with most American companies.....greed and top heavy management and eliminating high labor.
We had to borrow money from our enemies in China to buy some oil or to give everyone a little boost of $600 lousy dollars.
Fred


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 02, 2008, 09:29:57 PM
Air Bus employs Americans too. Don't be so racist.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 09:39:09 PM
What it that term itar. maybe my spelling is off.
Turn coat French Air Bus has no business selling airplanes to the USAF. They should be built in America by Americans.  How is that racist? Should we buy
euro fighters rather than F22s or F35s. I bet they are cheaper too.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: N1ESE on March 02, 2008, 09:39:56 PM
Umm, it isn't Air Bus solely.  it's a joint venture with Northrup Gruman and a company that Air Bus owns.



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 02, 2008, 09:41:46 PM
I saw a story indicating that the AirBus planes are to be assembled in a US manufacturing plant.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: N1ESE on March 02, 2008, 09:44:01 PM
Here's a link to the CNN story -

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/29/air.force.tankers/index.html



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 02, 2008, 09:49:37 PM
Why all the hatin' on the French. You guys need some PC classes.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 02, 2008, 09:50:09 PM
Why all the hatin' on the French? You guys need some PC classes. No wonder the rest of the world hates us.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 09:53:04 PM
F22 designed by Americans, built by Americans to protect the United States of America! I don't care what it costs till a MIG 31 can take one down. Detect the pattern  


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 09:56:22 PM
HUZ I could give 2 shits about the French but they have no business selling the USAF airplanes. Northrup should be building their own plane. Did they forget how to do it after Jack died. They seem to have managed doing a nice job on the B2.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 02, 2008, 09:59:55 PM
And that's why the world hates us. I hope Obama straightens you guys out.


HUZ I could give 2 shits about the French but they have no business selling the USAF airplanes. Northrup should be building their own plane. Did they forget how to do it after Jack died. They seem to have managed doing a nice job on the B2.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 10:03:39 PM
Screw the rest of the world. We give away all kinds of money and we are hated anyway. Maybe if we minded our own business we wouldn't be so hated.
The Euro is going up and the buck is going down explain why?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 02, 2008, 10:04:48 PM
If we minded our own business, we wouldn't need a military and Boeing and the rest of them would be out of business - we wouldn't even be having this discussion.


Screw the rest of the world. We give away all kinds of money and we are hated anyway. Maybe if we minded our own business we wouldn't be so hated.
The Euro is going up and the buck is going down explain why?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: N1ESE on March 02, 2008, 10:07:55 PM
We import a lot of our raw materials for our family business from Africa, South America and China. Manufacture our items here in the U.S. 

Just like the new planes by Northrup and the Europeans.  They are building a new plant in Alabama for this project.



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 10:09:53 PM
yea right


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 02, 2008, 10:11:58 PM
My Rosie Riveter mom used to assemble B-26s in Omaha at the Martin factory there during WWII.
Told me the girls would sew spicy 'motivational messages' into the crew member's seats.

I'd take one from a French chick too LOL


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 02, 2008, 10:16:55 PM
read the fine print. Final assembly in the US. They fly the plane in and it gets a paint job and a few radios installed. bull puckey


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 02, 2008, 10:20:15 PM
The French won the Revolutionary War for us. We owe them.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 03, 2008, 08:18:17 AM
I think WW1 and WW2 more than covered it HUZ.

I've been on the F22 assembly line and I would put that talent up against anyone on earth. I would pay double to protect that talent.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA3VJB on March 03, 2008, 09:23:42 AM
Well I am glad the Germans have turned loose of Chrysler so all those foreign cars will get made in the U.S. again, alongside the Mercedes/South Carolina, Nissans/Tennessee Hondas/Ohio, Mazdas/Michigan ....

American jobs, American workers, ah, you get the idea.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WD8BIL on March 03, 2008, 10:30:41 AM
Hey.... I got a great French WW2 army rifle for sale.

It's in mint condition. Never fired... only dropped once !  ;D


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WBear2GCR on March 03, 2008, 11:03:08 AM
Ok... "...thousand points of light..." eh?

Lemmee 'splain eet too youze - at least as it appears here in the soviet of Noo Yawk...

The basic idea is that if no single 'nation/state' has within itself sufficient resources in terms of raw materials AND manufacturing capability to maintain a standing military on a war footing, then there will not be any wars between 'nation/states.' That's the idea. It has several 'issues' and 'ramifications' as well as 'unintended consequences'... but apparently that is the plan - at least to the best of my ability to discern it and read between the lines...

Now it all makes sense?

                 _-_-bear


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 03, 2008, 11:05:46 AM
Not even close. The British and the USSR won WWII. The British and the French won WWI.

American workers are lazy and largely incompetent. That's why the dollar is down.


I think WW1 and WW2 more than covered it HUZ.

I've been on the F22 assembly line and I would put that talent up against anyone on earth. I would pay double to protect that talent.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: N3DRB The Derb on March 03, 2008, 11:32:39 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFrs254R5P0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFrs254R5P0)

The F22 is obsolete. We are turning our own country into what we claim to be fighting against.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 03, 2008, 12:20:32 PM


American workers are lazy and largely incompetent. That's why the dollar is down.



Steve, I frequently work with college students and interns, don't sell the kids short. In spite of my preconceptions, I am constantly impressed with the talent, skill and motivation many do have. Sharp as tacks.

But they need to be reached out to and plugged into meaningful, challenging endeavors. By and large, American companies are really messed up, the lazy and incompetent are at the top, too.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 03, 2008, 01:16:06 PM
HUZ you have the people in charge confused with the working class big time.

 


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 03, 2008, 02:27:05 PM
The people in charge got there because they are smarter and work harder than the so called working class. If the working class was so great, why are unskilled Mexicans able to come to this country and take their jobs?

The French are the center of the universe. Just ask them.


HUZ you have the people in charge confused with the working class big time.

 


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 03, 2008, 03:01:19 PM
HUZ you yank a good chain


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 03, 2008, 03:41:23 PM
Yea, it was a good run, while it lasted. Now, back to bashing the French!!!!!

HUZ you yank a good chain


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WBear2GCR on March 03, 2008, 03:59:32 PM


You do not like French Toast???  :o :o :o

Shocking!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 03, 2008, 05:23:48 PM
Hey Derb, Get yourself a picture of the fire coming out of a F22 motor (P&W F119) and tell me it's yesterday.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: W1RKW on March 03, 2008, 05:35:05 PM
Northrop Grumman, now there's a true useless sack of crap when it comes to submarine building and hopefully the Navy will dump them and save the taxpayer a gob.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 03, 2008, 06:44:15 PM
Actually, it really is. Unmanned aircraft are the future. Further, stategically, the Airforce is moving into the space and cyber arenas as the future of warfare. Manned fighters are 20th century.


Hey Derb, Get yourself a picture of the fire coming out of a F22 motor (P&W F119) and tell me it's yesterday.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 03, 2008, 07:47:47 PM
Quote
Anyway, the military isn't dedicated to unmanned combat missions to a very high degree at this time.

And that's my point. We aren't talking about now, we're talking about the future. And, no I wasn't kidding. Do some reading on the AF's move into the space and cyber realms. That is the future.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: N3DRB The Derb on March 03, 2008, 07:48:04 PM
never got Bin Ladin or his main flunky the Duke of Earl or whatever his name was.






Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 03, 2008, 08:03:12 PM
We didn't get the bad guy because we didn't have the balls to use the right weapon on that hunk of pig crap.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WD8BIL on March 03, 2008, 08:21:36 PM
We got him. We just ain't found his remains.
He IS cave temperature at Bora Bora.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: k4kyv on March 03, 2008, 08:39:34 PM
Yea, it was a good run, while it lasted. Now, back to bashing the French!!!!!

You enlightened folks who take such pleasure in bashing the French, how many of you have ever even been to France?

Or is this (http://caglepost.com/cartoon.aspx?id=44B572DC-F56E-4E67-A6B4-9D3B123106F2) where you get your information about what's going on in the rest of the world?

As for buying American, even Ten-Tec rigs are filled with components manufactured with offshore slave labour.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 03, 2008, 08:44:54 PM
Nah. Here (http://www.fuckfrance.com/).



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 03, 2008, 08:52:47 PM
Don,
We are not bashing France. We are bashing the fact that the USAF would prefer to employ the French over the American tax payer worried about his job.
While HUZ yanks everybodies chain


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: David, K3TUE on March 03, 2008, 08:55:37 PM
It basically looks like Grumman is buying the plane from Air Bus and outfitting it to do the job they need it to do, like a conversion camper van.  You know they are gonna have to build it in the US to make this profitable, given the strength of the Euro.  They may even be planning on using indocumentados.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WU2D on March 03, 2008, 09:02:05 PM
The reason that the military is going elsewhere is because the way of doing DOD business from congress all the way down to the plant worker has generated military programs that take so long to develop that they are usually obsolete by the time they are finished. The C17 and the Boeing 777 are about the same in complexity. The C17 took upwards of 15 to 20 years to field. Waste in an overrun program like this is ridiculous. The Justice Department took McDonnell Douglas to court for defrauding the United States on the C17. The 777 was fielded in 5 years flat. The DOD must learn to maintain the superiority of the American military with less cost because we are about out of money. Overruns of 1.5B for Sea Wolf and 200M for EACH B1 and on and on.

Flame On Frank


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 03, 2008, 09:02:50 PM
There was a day when Grumman built some of the best airplanes. Take the A10 or F14 for example. That is pretty piss poor that they can go offshore and employ someone else to design and build while Americans lose their jobs and still be expected to pay the bill.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: AMroo on March 03, 2008, 09:05:20 PM
       

       During the revolution- The French were revolting.......mmm guess what?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: KF1Z on March 03, 2008, 09:23:37 PM

As for buying American, even Ten-Tec rigs are filled with components manufactured with offshore slave labour.


Ah yes, "As American as Apple Pie" !!

Oh, wait....

Apple Pie is British!!!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: k4kyv on March 03, 2008, 09:44:29 PM
Don,
We are not bashing France. We are bashing the fact that the USAF would prefer to employ the French over the American tax payer worried about his job.
While HUZ yanks everybodies chain

Actually, I'm surprised we aren't buying them from China!

I read an article in the local newspaper the other day, that Wal-Fart may soon be offering Chinese-made cars in the near future, at less that $8K per copy.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: AF9J on March 03, 2008, 09:48:49 PM
There was a day when Grumman built some of the best airplanes. Take the A10 or F14 for example. That is pretty piss poor that they can go offshore and employ someone else to design and build while Americans lose their jobs and still be expected to pay the bill.


Ummm Frank, with regards to the A-10, you're only partially right.  The A-10, was originally designed & built by Fairchild-Republic (hence it's original, less popular name of Thunderbolt 2 [derived from the WW2, Republic P-47 Thunderbolt]).  It went into service in the late 70s/early 80s, and did not become a so called Grumman A-10, until Grumman bought out Fairchild-Republic in the late 80s.  I'm not even sure Grumman ever built an A-10.  I do know that they modified some A-10s into OA-10s (basically dual purpose observation/FAC, and attack aircraft).  

73,
Ellen - AF9J  


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: k4kyv on March 03, 2008, 09:54:51 PM
As for buying American, even Ten-Tec rigs are filled with components manufactured with offshore slave labour.

Isn't it interesting that the only radio manufacturer in the world to use such parts is the American Ten-Tec made offerings!? How shameful! ;)

No, that's not true, but Ten-Tec is about the only major US manufacturer of radio communications equipment that still sells to the general public.  How many Rockwell-Collins slopbucket transceivers do you see advertised in Queer Street Times these days?

Even nominally made-in-USA automobiles, by the remaining American manufacturers, largely consist of parts made in Japan, Mexico and other "offshore" localities.  And those companies are still struggling to survive because so many Americans consider their products to be pieces of crap and won't buy them.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 03, 2008, 10:06:31 PM
Not really. Toyota is kicking butt! Even in NASCAR.


Quote
And those companies are still struggling to survive because so many Americans consider their products to be pieces of crap and won't buy them.



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: David, K3TUE on March 03, 2008, 10:52:36 PM
Like a Buick 231 (3.8l) V6.
GM sold those engines to many companies.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: wb1aij on March 04, 2008, 12:11:17 PM
Air Bus employs Americans too. Don't be so racist.
#%X%*("%#!@&^%(&^%$#  that!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 04, 2008, 12:37:35 PM
That puts out more power than the GM units. Toyota rules! Next will be Honda. They've already dominated in Indy and F1 racing (real racing as opposed to the amateurs in NASCAR).



Not really. Toyota is kicking butt! Even in NASCAR.

Using a clone of the Chevrolet engine. They moved the distributor to the front to make it look different.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WD8BIL on March 04, 2008, 12:45:02 PM
Quote
Toyota is kicking butt!

He said "butt" !  :o :o


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 04, 2008, 04:33:38 PM
I know I've sent some nasty letters to the beltway bandits.
The Jefferson Memorial roof is high enough that we could hang a few right in the building.
A nice $600 check to a Boeing guy will make him feel good when he loses his job.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WU2D on March 04, 2008, 06:20:09 PM
Frank,

Boeing is going to make a fortune on the 787 and they have open reqs for over 600 engineers TODAY according to one of my buddies who works there. Of course they are late on the 787...

Mike WU2D


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 04, 2008, 07:38:16 PM
What about the poor Grumman guy who loses his job? I guess you have stock in Boeing.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 04, 2008, 08:17:05 PM
Embarrassing to whom? We have Airforce bases in foreign countries.


What about the poor Grumman guy who loses his job? I guess you have stock in Boeing.

I don't think any current Grumman employee will lose his job, since the plant that's supposed to be doing the work doesn't exist yet.

Come on now Steve, ya gotta admit it's a little embarrassing to have the USAF let a contract to a foreign provider for planes!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 05, 2008, 08:21:26 AM
787 is late because there is a lot of new stuff going on. We are making a ton of stuff for it. We could buy planes from Air bus and save all that pesky R&D money.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2008, 08:24:01 AM
Every plane has something new. The 787 is late because Boeing is incompetent. They are late on a schedule THEY made. Go figure.


787 is late because there is a lot of new stuff going on. We are making a ton of stuff for it. We could buy planes from Air bus and save all that pesky R&D money.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 05, 2008, 08:41:12 AM
So based on that comment we should have scrapped the space program after the first rocket blew up.

The biggest screw ups of all land where?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2008, 11:09:48 AM
Based on your comment, not mine. I never said anything about scrapping anything. Where did you get that?


The space program was largely a big waste of money. We could have spent it on better things right here on earth and the good old USA.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: K6JEK on March 05, 2008, 11:19:50 AM
We haven't seen the end of this.   There will be great gnashing of teeth in Congress and lawsuits.

One question I haven't seen addressed is why Airbus won.   I heard the DOD guy say they're offering a better plane in all regards.   We can't blame cheap ("slave") labor.

When I worked for Boeing we prided ourselves in being better than MacDonald-Douglas.   At least we thought so.  Now the only competition is Airbus and it looks like they built a better mousetrap. Perhaps when the dust settles, Boeing will get a second chance and come up with a better plane.

My real opinion is this, though:  We spend more on our military than the next forty countries combined. I've seen figures that say more than the rest of the world in total, all of Europe, China, Russia, Iran, and everybody else all put together. That's too much.

Ike was right.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 05, 2008, 11:39:10 AM

Ike was right but he needed the M.I. complex to win as much as he hated it.

Screw the world build it here keep the talent here and if it isn't right fix it here.



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: K6JEK on March 05, 2008, 01:31:12 PM
2008 World Military Spending (projected)

A few excerpts:

USA $711B, 48% of total for the world
All of Europe combined including UK 289, 20%
China, 122, 8%
...
Russia 70, 5%

Total 1.473 Trillion

So I was wrong.   We don't spend more than everyone else combined.   We spend just a tad less than the whole rest of the world combined.   I think we're suckers and should let some of the former imperial powers of Europe and the emerging world power, China, have more of the fun. The Europeans should build the damned tankers and just give them to us.
-------------------------------------------------------

Source "Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation" (whoever they are).   I think the US numbers are low


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 05, 2008, 01:54:03 PM
Now look at the credit card balance in say Russia.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WD8BIL on March 05, 2008, 02:56:09 PM
It ain't military spending busting our budget !!

Can you say, " Hey Hillary, give me more welfare ? ""


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2008, 03:23:50 PM
Quote
Shop around people, many stores in this area now feature signs that read, "We will beat WalMart's price on any comparable item".


Whixh just means they are selling stuff from China too. TANSTAAFL applies everywhere, not just at Walmart.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2008, 07:45:00 PM
Probably. I'm just saying other stores sell Chinese stuff besides Walmart. It's a bogus rap on Walmart.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 05, 2008, 08:21:04 PM
While nothing will probably replace the old economy factory jobs, it's gratifying to read about new success stories.
I gotta ask, why wasn't the company Boeing?

Vestas, a Danish company, recently invested in and built a 400,000 square foot factory not far from my QTH to manufacture large wind turbines for the North American market.These kind of businesses are a win-win for everyone, providing decent-paying jobs with benefits to manufacture products for the the growing renewable energy market.

Not long ago ago, Colorado voters passed a law mandating that the state's  utility companies generate 20% of the state's electric power from renewable sources. Understandably contentious, but the payback is beginning to happen in tangible ways. Last year, 700 megawatts of wind and solar power was constructed here, that's about the output of a large coal-fired power plant. Regardless of politics and whether global warming is factual or not, this waste not mentality is good to see happening, IMO. And it's paying back in the form of real American jobs, too.

----------------------------------

World's top wind-turbine maker opens first U.S. plant in Colorado
By JUDITH KOHLER Associated Press Writer
Article Last Updated: 03/05/2008 05:32:34 PM MST

WINDSOR, Colo.—The world's largest wind-turbine maker officially opened its first North American manufacturing plant Wednesday on Colorado's northern plains, where it expects to produce blades for 600 turbines a year.

Denmark-based Vestas Wind Systems will eventually employ about 650 workers at its 400,000-square-foot plant outside Windsor, about 60 miles north of Denver. It has about 200 workers now.

Ditlev Engel, Vestas' president and chief executive officer, said the United States was the company's largest market last year.

"We have great faith in the potential of our industry in this country," he said.

Gov. Bill Ritter attended the plant's ceremonial opening and called it "a victory for our state."

He said Vestas will help attract other renewable energy companies to Colorado. Ritter has set a goal of attracting renewable energy research and manufacturing operations to the state for what he calls the "New Energy Economy."

"We now have in-state manufacturing capacity to supply wind farms not just in Colorado but across North America," he said.

Ritter said the Vestas plant has already spawned conversations with other companies thinking about locating in Colorado. He declined to elaborate.

Vestas spokeswoman Lone Mortensen said the factory expects to reach full production in May. It finished its first blade on Jan. 31.

The plant will make 130- and 144-foot long blades weighing about 6 tons each. They will be used on two turbine sizes, producing either 1.65 megawatts or 3 megawatts.

One 3-megawatt wind turbine can supply more than 1,000 American homes with electricity for one year, Vestas said.

Vestas has installed more than 33,500 wind turbines in 63 countries and employs more than 15,000 people worldwide. It has installed more than 4,000 megawatts of wind power in this country.

Vestas cited Windsor's access to rail services and a skilled work force as reasons for choosing the location. Engel said the fact that Colorado has a statewide renewable energy standard was another factor.

Utilities selling electricity in Colorado must get 20 percent of their power from renewable energy sources by 2020.

The town and Weld County offered Vestas incentives worth a total of about $1.1 million in deferred development fees and tax breaks, interim Town Manager Kelly Arnold said.

Craig Cox, executive director of the Colorado-based Interwest Energy Alliance, a trade and advocacy group, called the plant "a true manifestation of the New Energy Economy."

He likened the significance of the plant to Colorado's voter-approved requirement that utilities get some of their energy from renewable sources.

"I think it shows Colorado is finally on the map," he said.

———

On the Net:

Vestas Blades America Inc.: http://www.vestas.com


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2008, 08:36:32 PM
What were you saying about conspiracies earlier? Do you hear the helicopters?


Probably. I'm just saying other stores sell Chinese stuff besides Walmart. It's a bogus rap on Walmart.

Everybody sells Chinese goods but NOBODY else can get the deal that WalMart has via certain U.S. politicians and the Chinese government help that they enjoy, Arkansas power ya know.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2008, 09:14:19 PM
Yep, sounds just like the CFR, Trilateral Commission and the Illuminati all wrapped up in one.

Good one!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 05, 2008, 09:49:28 PM
Bud are you a bit early on the Clinton basing. I take it you feel the past 7 years went well?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2008, 10:09:26 PM
Sure. Historically low interest rates, historically low unemployment and the stock market went over 13000.  Made tons of money on my oil stock. Yes, I'd say it went well.


Bud are you a bit early on the Clinton basing. I take it you feel the past 7 years went well?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 05, 2008, 10:18:09 PM
Hey Huz I think your Dog is getting pissed off at that friggen bug running figure 8s.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2008, 10:29:53 PM
What's political about making money?


Sure. Historically low interest rates, historically low unemployment and the stock market went over 13000.  Made tons of money on my oil stock. Yes, I'd say it went well.
Bud are you a bit early on the Clinton basing. I take it you feel the past 7 years went well?

Now wait just a !@#$%^ minute here, are you administrator/moderator/whateveror types allowed to stir political debate? ;)


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 05, 2008, 10:31:24 PM
Sure. Historically low interest rates, historically low unemployment and the stock market went over 13000.  Made tons of money on my oil stock. Yes, I'd say it went well.


Not to mention Paris Hilton's rise to fame...


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 06, 2008, 10:12:31 AM
I was referring to America in general, not to start a political debate


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 06, 2008, 11:51:34 AM
Indeed. Lots of fresh air in NZ. Don't worry, I'll be back to my dullard self soon.


Quote
You've been 'on a roll' ever since you got back home, the trip must have done you a lot of good.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: K3ZS on March 06, 2008, 03:30:16 PM
The bugs are multiplying!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 06, 2008, 04:44:04 PM
So Huz,
did it bother you to stand upside down in NZ. Did you have to degauss yourself?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 06, 2008, 05:08:42 PM
I see on CNN news my man Joe Courtney P&Ming about the deal with air bus. He is pretty good about asking your opinion and answering emails.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 06, 2008, 09:12:51 PM
Well my blood is at a good boil as I watch C-span on this tanker deal.. Air bus got the RFQ modified to require a bigger plane just before it went out for bid making Boeing non complaint. Boeing offered the 767 and they could have just as easily upped it to the 777.
This bimbo talking out of the side of her mouth is so full of crap it makes me sick. The Air Force wanted a smaller plane to begin with.

WTF is wrong with these people


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WD8BIL on March 06, 2008, 09:55:55 PM
Quote
Quote
Sure. Historically low interest rates, historically low unemployment and the stock market went over 13000.  Made tons of money on my oil stock. Yes, I'd say it went well.

Quote
Quote from: WA1GFZ on Yesterday at 09:49:28 PM
Bud are you a bit early on the Clinton basing. I take it you feel the past 7 years went well?

Ya... what Steve said !!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 06, 2008, 10:04:40 PM
Let's see the dollar is worth 2/3 what is did 7 years ago and the stock market is up what 300 points. Oh yea it did spike for what 3 months....wow
Trumped by $5T my kids get stuck with WOW and I thought the euro was doing well


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: k4kyv on March 07, 2008, 01:26:02 AM
You mean someone else makes consumer electronics besides China!?

I just found out that Sears Roebuck still makes good on their lifetime Craftsman hand tool guarantee.  Back in the 70's I bought a small diagonal cutter from the Sears store in Cambridge, MA.  It was good quality, made in USA.  Sometime in the 80's or 90's I managed to break it, trying to cut something larger than it was  designed to cut, so I took it back to the Sears store here and they exchanged it for what looked like an identical item, made in Japan.  Last week I broke that one, same way, trying to cut something it wasn't designed for.  So I took it back to the Sears store, and they exchanged it, no questions asked, for a very similar but not exactly identical unit, this time made in China.  It works well; let's see how long this one lasts.

We haven't seen the end of this.   There will be great gnashing of teeth in Congress and lawsuits.

One question I haven't seen addressed is why Airbus won.   I heard the DOD guy say they're offering a better plane in all regards.   We can't blame cheap ("slave") labor.

Certainly not, if it was made in western Europe.  Their workers got paid more per hour than Boeing workers would have.  Plus better benefits and 3 times as much vacation time.

Airbus employs around 57,000 people at sixteen sites in four European Union countries: Germany, France, the United Kingdom, and Spain. Final assembly production is at Toulouse (France) and Hamburg (Germany). Airbus has subsidiaries in the United States, Japan and China...On 1 March 2008 it was the announced that a consortium of Airbus and Northrop Grumman had won a $40bn contract to build the new in-flight refuelling aircraft KC-45A for the USAF. A plant will be built in Mobile, Alabama for KC-45A, A330-200MRTT and A330-200F production. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus)


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 03:07:27 PM
LOL! I want some of what you are smoking. Must be good stuff to be that disconnected from reality. Maybe I'll just call you Dan (as in Dan Rather). Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

The Dow Jones Industrial Index was at 7740 on 7 March 2003. It sits at 11880 today. Please show the math used to get a difference of 300 points and over only a 3 month period.


puff, puff, pass......

Let's see the dollar is worth 2/3 what is did 7 years ago and the stock market is up what 300 points. Oh yea it did spike for what 3 months....wow
Trumped by $5T my kids get stuck with WOW and I thought the euro was doing well


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 07, 2008, 03:19:26 PM
how about you flash back to 1991 when it hit 11700
how did it get down to 7700???


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 07, 2008, 04:45:46 PM
sure and that is why the euro is also taking off. And the $5T credit card is caused by all the welfare and ss.
The money is flying out of the stock market because of the value of the dollar.
Gee what about 1992 to 2000 compared to 2000 to 2008 
Not quite time to take advantage of the foreclosures


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 07, 2008, 05:08:12 PM
so what is going to happen to turn things around? not McSame.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 07, 2008, 05:52:00 PM


Remember what Sam Walton said after he became the biggest single loser in stock market history? "It was paper yesterday and it's still paper today".

Tell that one to the retirement savings in my 401K.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 07:06:11 PM
Puff, puff, pass...

Ever heard of the dot com bubble and 9/11?

Puff, puff, pass...



how about you flash back to 1991 when it hit 11700
how did it get down to 7700???


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 07:10:57 PM
Why? Are you retiring tomorrow?

Foreclosures have happened every day for the last 50 years. If more happen, it's called a market correction. Those who were dumb and/or greedy enough to take an ARM and think it would never go up, get what they deserve. Rates on fixed mortgages continue to drop and do house prices. Now is the time to buy!





Remember what Sam Walton said after he became the biggest single loser in stock market history? "It was paper yesterday and it's still paper today".

Tell that one to the retirement savings in my 401K.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 07, 2008, 07:14:29 PM
Tell that one to the retirement savings in my 401K.

Been there, done that. I used to have a lot of fellow employees at the telco that would come in to work severely depressed because the stock price slipped, some even had their losses written out on a sheet of paper to cry on. My reply was always the same, "I didn't lose a dime in my account yesterday, because I didn't sell a single share". When some were in deep depression I even bought their "in hand" shares and every one of them would get madder than !@#$ at me when the price went past it's previous high and then the shares split 2 or 3 to 1. Some of these same guys even got so nervous that they rolled their share accounts into a 'guaranteed interest fund' and lost big time. The stock market isn't for everyone and timing is everything. I think I had to wait about 1-2 years after retiring before I rolled my 401K & personal savings fund out, to take advantage of a good price per share.

I understand the ups and downs, Mack.
But is *is* my hard-earned money, not just some paper. And it is prudently divided into many investments and bond funds.

Know which fund did the best last year? The one specializing in off-shore stocks.

Don't get me started on Wal-Mart. Sam Walton should have been nominated for China's "Citizen of the Decade" award for his efforts in raising their living standards at the expense of ours.

<rant mode off>


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 07, 2008, 07:15:48 PM
Why? Are you retiring tomorrow?

Foreclosures have happened every day for the last 50 years. If more happen, it's called a market correction. Those who were dumb and/or greedy enough to take an ARM and think it would never go up, get what they deserve. Rates on fixed mortgages continue to drop and do house prices. Now is the time to buy!





Remember what Sam Walton said after he became the biggest single loser in stock market history? "It was paper yesterday and it's still paper today".

Tell that one to the retirement savings in my 401K.

I am really trying not to offer a Pavlovian reply to a chain pull, Steve!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 07:19:11 PM
LOL.  I love Sam Walton. He's the quintessential American success story. Those who hate him are either anti-capitalist, jealous or both.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 07, 2008, 07:23:14 PM
LOL.  I love Sam Walton. He's the quintessential American success story. Those who hate him are either anti-capitalist, jealous or both.

Please don't forward my previous post to the Un-American Activity Judgment Committee, Steve!


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 07:32:39 PM
Why? The company has only been more successful since his passing.


I love Sam Walton. He's the quintessential American success story. Those who hate him are either anti-capitalist, jealous or both.

I'm fond of Sam also, can't say much for his kids or the management team that took over after his death though.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 07, 2008, 07:32:57 PM
Other than for petrobucks, Sam Walton became a wealthy man by overseeing the largest transfer of dollars ever from the USA to a totalitarian foreign nation employing cheap slave labor and little concern for human welfare.
What's not to admire?



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 07:43:14 PM
It's a world economy. So what?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: ka3zlr on March 07, 2008, 08:05:04 PM
Other than for petrobucks, Sam Walton became a wealthy man by overseeing the largest transfer of dollars ever from the USA to a totalitarian foreign nation employing cheap slave labor and little concern for human welfare.
What's not to admire?



Can't argue there...You Have a Point Bill..


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 08:11:38 PM
Chinese hating. Man you guys sure are racist.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: ka3zlr on March 07, 2008, 08:26:46 PM
Chinese hating. Man you guys sure are racist.

But I am Not-A-Crook...LOL.......



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 07, 2008, 08:31:18 PM
I'm sure Huz would stand in front of the line willing to reduce his standard of living in favor of improving the lives of the people in China while calling Americans who lose their homes suckers and losers.
I remember being out of work in '91 and finally finding a job at 60% pay. It gives you a whole new view on your fellow man.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 09:04:16 PM
You've fallen for the shallow thinking of if they prosper, we must suffer.

Being racist is not a good perspective on your fellow man.


I'm sure Huz would stand in front of the line willing to reduce his standard of living in favor of improving the lives of the people in China while calling Americans who lose their homes suckers and losers.
I remember being out of work in '91 and finally finding a job at 60% pay. It gives you a whole new view on your fellow man.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 07, 2008, 09:21:00 PM
I agree with you Huz but I also see what is happening to manufacturing jobs in this country. I have no problem with China improving their lot but who you gonna call for help the next time we get into a real war...France?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2008, 09:28:12 PM
I agree. We don't need to sell ourselves short. However, don't confuse manufacturing jobs with manufacturing output. The manufacturing production in this country has remained about constant over the last 10 years. Jobs have dropped. That shouldn't be surprising with more efficient methods and automation.

Don't worry about China. We'll take care of them with our secret weapon - MacDonalds!


I agree with you Huz but I also see what is happening to manufacturing jobs in this country. I have no problem with China improving their lot but who you gonna call for help the next time we get into a real war...France?


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 07, 2008, 10:07:49 PM
I think China is a bit sharper than that and it may take R.J. Reynolds.
I guess my fear is their government has a lot more on the ball than our's. I've spent a number of hours listening to their version of a congress. Their issues are not juiced baseball players. They are looking down the road 10 years and making plans for it to happen while our clowns wonder about the next stupid issue they can waste their time on while we head in reverse.
The more we rely on outsiders for technology the more we screw ourselves. 


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: ka3zlr on March 08, 2008, 04:10:07 AM
For the most part i think a good bolstering of the American dollar would go along way.



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 08, 2008, 08:56:37 AM
China and business is one in the same. I'm saying it is right but they sure have their eye on the ball compared to what isn't going on in our government.
People are treated like ants at a picnic.
That's for sure on our mil. Let's see what have we done in the past 7 years. Smack production is at an all time high on one front and we have 150 thousand targets walking around on the other. Seems to me someone is making a lot of money and winning would just cut into profits.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: ka3zlr on March 08, 2008, 09:50:31 AM
Ok, how then do we return to a government by conviction.

There have been attempts...


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 08, 2008, 05:55:49 PM
Don't worry about China. We'll take care of them with our secret weapon - MacDonalds!

Forget that! MacDonalds is health food compared to a normal Chinese diet.




Nope.  They're all gonna get fat and die. Secret weapon. Don't tell anyone.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WU2D on March 10, 2008, 11:14:01 AM
Can I go to NZ instead? I hear that they have Rainbow Trout the size of Frank there.

I flew out here to beautiful Silicon Valley yesterday on a Boeing 737 that probably never got inspected. Southwest said that the FAA said it was OK to skip a few - them's good planes.

Frank what is that thing about aluminum where it is always doing something when you wiggle it?

Mike


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 10, 2008, 11:39:00 AM
Do you mean work hardening then cracking. 737 cattle car.
I spent way to many miles in that plane but my best ride was with 7 other guys with a mil driver.
My size trout...stay out of the water or be a worm.



Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 10, 2008, 04:31:12 PM
What about that stock market Huz...were cooking everything is so good


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WU2D on March 11, 2008, 01:13:00 AM
Frank -That's it ! Work hardening! Those new 787's are made of plastic. Will they come unglued?

Mike


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA2AAE on March 11, 2008, 07:58:29 AM
Right now we are seeing the results of letting "corporate America" run open loop. Excessive CEO pay regardless of their performance, focusing on short term profits instead of long term success, and selling off of our industries for short term gains. I wonder how long it will take before we realize that we are destroying our country from within? As you keep on eliminating American jobs and reducing the middle class, who is going to be able to buy all of these imported products? And being politically correct rather than honest is another reason for our many problems. Tell it like it is.

My two cents.

73, Harvey


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 11, 2008, 08:30:18 AM
never mind glue on the 787 what about lightning??? That is a real big issue.
A lot of glue is presently used on metal planes. Rivets are used around the edges of panels but glue is used to internal ribs. Glue is even used in wet wings. This has been done for at least 25 years and results in stronger wings because you don't have to drill as many holes in the skin.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 11, 2008, 09:55:44 AM
that is total bull shit. It doesn't take 40,000 people to shoot paint and mount a couple radios in an airplane.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: MICHAEL on March 11, 2008, 10:08:06 AM
"never mind glue on the 787 what about lightning??? That is a real big issue."

Lightning is not an issue on composite aircraft. Having worked at Columbia Aircraft, I can tell you that a copper mesh screen is imbeded in the material and tied together at all joints. This gives a very good lightning protection.

mike


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WU2D on March 11, 2008, 10:14:43 AM
Frank,

Three of the "kids" in my class that I am taking online are working at Boeing on the 787 and you are correct, they have fears of failing the lightning testing. The idea is to impregnate the composite with a conductive mesh but apparently the mesh may not be "good enough".

Ladies and gentleman use the buckle to securely attach your ground strap tightly around your ass.

Mike 


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 11, 2008, 10:56:08 AM
that is also bull shit. The planes will be built in France by French people who don't pay taxes to the American Government.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 11, 2008, 12:03:15 PM
Stock market is up because they are printing another $200B of paper.
The lightning issue is still big. We make a ton of stuff going into the plane.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 11, 2008, 03:05:41 PM
I'll be awaiting the contempt of Congress charges.



that is also bull shit. The planes will be built in France by French people who don't pay taxes to the American Government.



VGB sez:
Quote
After hearing all the info & Congressional debate on this deal, there's a few undeniable facts involved. Money wise for the American tax payer the deal with the Air Bus is a good one, plus Grumman is promising to add 40K new American jobs in the process which nicely offsets the recent 63K jobs lost.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WU2D on March 13, 2008, 10:42:37 AM
Well this thread covered many aspects of the fun involved with big military contracts and how US jobs are directly impacted so a few outbursts were warranted I guess.

There was a 25 cent editorial in the USA today - today - freebee at my hotel.


"Boeing has about a quarter trillion dollars woth of backlogged orders for its commercial aircraft, many from overseas buyers, and is in no danger of going out of business; in fact it is hiring."

" To its credit Boeing is basing its case on the merits of the competing aircraft"

" competition is fine as long as only Boeing can win; that other nations should but US aircraft, but the US won't buy theirs; and lobbying, campaign donations and a USA address are more important than which plane does a better job"

Available evidence indicates that the Air Force got the best airplane for the money and was scrupulous about making the choice .. The last time the Air Force tried to award a contract to replace the Eisenhower-era tanker jets, it cooked up a sleasy deal with Boeing that collapsed in scandal after Sen. John McCain R-Ariz. helped blow the whistle. A Boeing executive and a former AF procurement official went to prison and Boeings CEO resigned.

Mike WU2D


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 13, 2008, 12:35:10 PM
I still think our Mil stuff needs to be built here. Also the AF needs a light tanker not another KC10.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 13, 2008, 07:59:21 PM
Nice thought but we crossed that bridge decades ago.

I still think our Mil stuff needs to be built here.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 13, 2008, 08:42:31 PM
I still consider it way past stupid to rely on outsiders for our mil hardware.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: ka3zlr on March 13, 2008, 09:45:55 PM
C'mon Frank, repetitive machining withstanding, it's normal business practice to farm out..in certain areas.

With all do Respect.


Title: Re: Boeing
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 13, 2008, 10:00:19 PM
Family trait is showing.....sorry
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