The AM Forum

I was on or about 3705 with a bunch of other folks last night (Friday), and WOW, it was worse there than in the "Ghetto" up on 3885.  INTERFERENCE, INTERFERENCE, INTERFERENCE - and MALICIOUS interference.  Slop buckets going 3kHz up and causing problems, on-frequency jamming, CW, noise generators....

Is this new or have I been missing all the "fun"?  That's a nice part of the band in which to operate, but the "ghetto elements" appear to have moved in.

 :P

Regards,

Steve

Hi Steve,

In spite of my broadcast intermod problems with my receivers, I can still occasionally hear stuff around 3705 kHz. Yes, it's happend before.  I've heard it at least once or twice before.  I think one time, it was Brent, W1IA being interfered with.  The other time, Don K4KYV, may have been subjected to it.  Unfortunately, a higher class license doesn't necessarily mean the individual is a better ham.   Also, as has been commented on, it seems that some of the troublemakers that cause so much grief on 3885, have followed us down to 3705, and even 3710, now that they know more of us are operating down there.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Steve I hope you took advantage of the resource we set up to make recordings and send them to Brian WA5AM or myself.

This was announced a few months ago, please review and help us document.

The offer is open to all who are complaining. Take action and don't provide them with jolly on here.

You can't fix stupid Steve.

Listened to the activity last night, Sounded like 3.710 was a battle ground. Still the stations were heard throught the pathetic attempts at jamming. Meanwhile the ghetto was deserted, except for some weak carriers Called CQ from time to time, and did get a few QSO's on 3885 or so. No Big Guns like down on 3710/05.

It's sad that this stuff happens, as I have been a part of great QSO's with stations all over the U.S. without the intentional nastiness. Must have caught the jammers off guard. This is why I hesitate moving the RA250 to 75M. 3705 was so nice for a few months.
Phred

There is a dead-air group, an offshoot from the 3892 crew, that has been trying to squat on the frequency ever since they discovered the attempts at transatlantic AM.

I have run into similar hassles from those and other dead-air groups on 3725, 3710, 3690, 3685 and elsewhere.  If the frequency is not in use when you start, just ignore them and turn up the wick if you have the capability. 

Most of the time there is very little QRM "down below".  I usually operate with my receiver in 8 kHz selectivity position.  I have had many great QSO's on AM with stations I had never contacted before, and get frequent replies from SSB ops who are trying for the first time to operate their transceivers in AM mode.  Most of the time, they end the QSO with a positive impression of AM, and a few have indicated interest in returning to AM more regularly.

"Ain't a slopbucket in North America can bother me" - W8VYZ

Is someone crystal controlled?

Just like 3890 or wherever, it could become the same bad habit NOT to move around down low.

Clear spot, it's yours.

There is only one way to deal with this, strap and ignore. Sending recordings crying to the FCC a waste of time. They have better things to do than play mommy to a bunch of WAAAAAA. And I bet the losers monitor here hoping to get press and send just as many recordings to the FCC with their version of WAAAA.. Watching them on the spectrum display I see they park themselves 2.3 to 3 KHz away. So what will the FCC really do beside limit our bandwidth. I think these losers are parking next to us just to raise the BW issue.

I disagree with the idea that the FCC (Hollingsworth) will not do anything...  And crying to the FCC is NOT what we are doing either, so where did that come from?  So far, we have not submitted anything, as no one has contributed anything to speak of TO submit. 

It's all in the way it's presented to Riley that makes the difference, and recordings are one thing he favors most, and I know that for a fact, and have proof of it.  He will take action, but not on frivolous notions, and kluged up complaints with nothing to back them.

I do agree that we don't need to vent these complaints on a public forum.  It is counter productive to say the least, and all it serves is to give the culprits time to prepare for a defense ...if there is any.

BTW, I have had many communications with Riley Hollingsworth since he obtained his current position with the FCC, and he does have a lot of interest in stopping crap like this.  He is an attorney, and attorneys do have to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to present, or pursue a case.

Thanks,

Brian / wa5am

By the way; "strap and ignore" depends on the circumstances.  If you are there first, go ahead, but if THEY are there first, I would not advise anyone to do that, I don't care what mode you operate.  We don't want to send the wrong message.

About the only thing I would recommend sending to the FCC, and which WILL bring action, is if you happen to get them on tape or MP3, clearly identified and openly admitting to deliberately interfering with other amateurs, or if you catch them on another frequency conspiring to interfere with an ongoing contact.  Just sending in one lone recording of a frequency dispute isn't likely to do anything but get the FCC people annoyed at everyone involved - both victim and perpetrator, and could encourage the rulemakers to look more seriously at the next bandwidth petition. But if multiple recordings of specific miscreants are archived and multiple sound clips are sent in one batch at the appropriate time, this just might result in enforcement action.

"Strap and ignore" should be the primary strategy.  Above all, avoid crying, or pissing 'n moaning about the QRM, over the air.  Of utmost importance, I would advise carefully listening to make sure that the frequency is not in use, before making an initial transmission.  My mode of operation is to monitor what sounds like a clear frequency for several minutes, and if no activity is heard, then make a call or test transmission.  Asking "is the frequency in use?" is an invitation for members of any dead-air group lurking about on the frequency to reply that yes, it is.  Just having the receiver on, monitoring a frequency while doing something else in the shack but not actively engaged in a contact, is NOT using a frequency.  I make it clear up front that I do not recognise dead-air groups' claims of ownership of any "channel".

OTOH, I consider a frequency up for immediate grabs if members of an ongoing QSO all sign off and make clear their intention of closing down or QSY'ing.

Oddly was working the European AM stations on 3705 kHz's and there was an adjacent peanut gallery; but I had the array pointed out NE and they weren't doing any harm.
I am looking forward to more stateside stations joining in. Steve WB3HUZ, Ken W2DTC and others have joined in the past.

Brent W1IA

Steve!

Ofcourse you are all wellcome on 3705.
We using many years these freq. for AM in Europa.
Yesterday evening again good qso with Brent on 3705.

Hope to meet you soon in qso on 3705,

Henk
PE1MPH ;)

I was listening to you guys first on 3717. I noticed a bunch of dimwits had zero-beat your signals and was working USB to boot. I turned on the rice box which has a nice panadapter to see the trash. I scooted up to 40 to see if there were any prospects up there but to no avail. So I came back down and only heard 'Donny & Dimwit' on 3717 and found the AM QSO had shifted to 3710. "Excellent!" I thought to myself. I have a rock for the MK-214D and can easily tune up there. I got everything in line when I realized 1) there were a bunch of stations already on freq., 2) those that were talking were P&Ming about both the QRMfest on 160 and the 'Donny & Dimwit' show, 3) about 2 other stations were trying to break-in, (VJB,HUZ), but were covered 4) the break-ins were so fast that you had about 5 stations talking at the same time. A cacophony of hetrodynes ensued. Now, let me throw this disclaimer out there, I'm not a break-in type of guy, even though the MK-214 is equipped with it, (hence why I wanted to use it), also, I like roundtables but when they get over 4, I'm usually the first one to bail. But, I guarantee you that the previously aforemention people lacking brain cells, were probably laughing at the chaos provided by our own group. This is not intended to be a drive-by nor sour grapes on my part but as a little reminder that there are others listening.
(Sorry for the old buzzard)

Unfortunately, AM qsos are always fair game if you are a knuckle dragging ssb operator. It doesnt matter where you are, we are gonna get qwermed. It is an unfortunate fact of life if you are an AMer. Unfortunately this is made worse by the bottom of the cycle operating condx we are all stuck with and everyone trying to find a little "piece of heaven" on 75/80. If you were there first,  quietly QRO and totally ignore their presence. If they cant get their jollies jamming you, they will eventually go away.  STRAP AND IGNORE!!! That is all the more incentive to be able to put out as big of a signal as you can! Its nice to have the horsepower when you need it.

Last night things pretty much settled down after the path to Europe closed dowm and the French SSB cornholetesters faded away. They are even more arrogant than the American inbred SSB qwermers!!

After the French qwermtesters faded away the band settled down into a great night of radio!! Big signals, great people, and great fun!! It was wild and wooly super fast break-in,
stopping just short of human sacrifice!! The AMers were definately in rare form last night!
Definately not for the weak at heart!  My sides are still sore from laughing. All in all it was a great session of late night radio last night on 3.710!

IIRC, it was Myself, WB3HUZ, WA3VJB, W3JN, W2JBL, W1IA, N3JUH, KA1KAQ, WA1QIX, WD8BIL, WA2PJP, KD3CN, AB3AL, WB2LTO, WB2GCR, and prolly a few others that my fuzzy head is forgetting. 

                                                                                   The Slab Bacon

My father used the same term for some family members and oddly behaved the same ;D

that was a good show on 3708 or wherever we were last night('cause you cotton pickin' AMer's can never get on the same frequency). Darwin awards to the guys on 3705 USB with the slow scan, and the total moron Frenchie contester who after Steve told him to hit the road offered this reply: "thank you very much for your consideration. CQ contest CQ contest CQ contest". and thanks to all for putting up with my FMemmy ARC-5 and 811 linyar. sure was fun! so the Ghetto moves down the band and us Po' Am'ers are still the NI%%$RS relegated to the back of the ham radio bus. same crap, different frequency...Damn i love ham radio!

Your rig did a pretty good job of averaging out a zero beat with all of us, from time to time.

I wish my rig had a DFO option like yours.  That was very effective.

"Running WM here, that's Wobbulation Modulation, caw maw"

Give the guys with slow scan TV credit. They are the ones that usually sit at 3710~3711. At least they demonstrated some bit of courtesy by moving instead of sitting right on top of you.

The HP3325 would make a perfect SBE source. Set it up as a slow sweep...a KHz or so wide.

Just a few quick things:

 - We were there first, 'HUZ, 'JN and others having found a clear frequency sometime in the late afternoon and activity continued into the evening (I joined in sometime around 5:30 PM)

 - Frequency ownership issues combined with dislike of AM are behind it (lack of viable brain cells playing the largest role)

 - Acknowledging it on the air does no good and in fact, gives the idiots what they desire: attention, and verification that they are somehow bothering us.

We moved down to 3710 not because we couldn't hear each other, more to have a clean frequency without the annoyance of the TV fools. We were followed. They have zero regard for anyone who operates on or near a frequency they claim as their own, and have no problem with jamming and other childish crap. 4 and 8 Land's best and brightest at work. Nevermind that the frequency was in use and had been for hours.

Not to diminish the role of the inbred, we still tend to be our worst enemy for the most part, or at least give them way too much help. The biggest issue is lack of AM activity in general and big signals in particular. When there was a regular presence of stout AM stations below 3800, there weren't many issues like this because everyone could quiet the receiver. This was still true a year after the band expansion. It's only started to become a real problem over the last few months, mainly due to SSB groups using the frequencies we aren't using, then laying claim to them instead of finding an open frequency when others are using the one they want. Some SSB ops are quite cordial and move to another frequency after calling on sked or such. Many others, not so. And we all know what corntesters are like.  ::)

So, bottom line: use it or lose it. And I agree entirely with Paul, Brian and others: Move around, don't play the same ownership games as the idiots. And don't publish frequencies, times, etc here on 'fone unless you enjoy inviting the 'tards to play. The less said for them to feed off, the better. And as Done say, clear-cut cases of intentional interference should be recorded and reported, but not every little piss and moan report. I think that's the gist of what Paul and Brian put together for the sound files.

 

Only if you consider 1 kHz below and on USB not right on top.

I'm sure these losers monitor here

Gary was right a few posts back "you can't fix stupid". happy you liked the ARC-5 Paul. i have a max SBE option available for that rig not wired in just yet too- switch the VFO to from regulated 250 to 300 unregulated and hit then also hit baseline a bit. in testing it would swing like a BC-375 on Crack when i did that. i have also confirmed in testing that most ricebox auto notch filters are too slow to keep up with that setup. and who can touch me doing that? after all it's a gennie WW-II "legacy" transmitter!

The slow scan guys are not the problem. They operate higher around 3710 and are not a factor. They always are up there on Saturday's. Of course an AM QSO and a Slow scan QSO within 5 kcs of each other will no doubt cause a bit of adjacent channel interference. And two AM QSO's wiithin 5 kcs of each other will do that too.

The problem was deliberate interference.

Actually we were creating more interference than they were, just amongst ourselves. Trying to break into that mob Saturday night was a tough one!

Mike WU2D

I disagree. I've been deliberately QRMed by them numerous times in the past few months. Saturday night was just the latest time.

Same situation for myself and others who operate the 80m portion regularly. If you're operating anywhere near or between 3710-3715 when they decide to come on, they will intentionally jam you. Brent has copied their pictures sent on top of our signals, after our group has been in QSO for several hours. And we know they can hear us by their comments.

Channelized mentality.

Steve and Todd are right.  For instance woe unto you if try calling CQ on 14.320 Mhz.  I learned this the hard way back in the 80s, when I got my General.  The SSTVers will fire up on top of you, even if 14.230's not in use, when you're calling CQ.  The situation has existed on that freq. for a very long time.  As far as they're concerned, it's THEIR freq.  It wouldn't surprise me one bit, if they feel the same way about 3.710 MHz.  I've heard SSTVer's use the complaint that "you have all of those other freqs. you can use for phone, the least you could do, is stay off of the one freq. we use."   They get very "dead air group" oriented about "their" freqs.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

I guess their VFOs don't work. Or they are just stupid and inconsiderate.

I do think we should try to maintain the expectation of AM presence in the vicinity of 3705, but without trying to claim we "own" the frequency, because of the longstanding use of the frequency in Europe and the possibility of transatlantic AM operation, now that US subband restrictions have been relaxed.

I don't mind sharing any frequency with other operators or groups, but if I am on a frequency first, I expect others to respect my presence and find an alternative frequency.

But I have found that the "Is the frequency in use?" tactic to be self-defeating, because dead-air group members who are guarding their channel tend to respond "yes" even if no-one has transmitted for a half-hour or more.  I prefer to monitor for a few minutes, or make a short "test" transmission and indicate that I am listening on the frequency.  It is too easy for dead-air operators to passively reply in the affirmative to the phone equivalent of QRL?, and you are immediately on the defensive the moment you transmit.

Technically, a dead-air group has no claim to the use of a frequency if none of its members have transmitted and identified with a callsign during the preceding 10 minutes, per the FCC ID rule.

The intentional QRMing in the "new" part of the band was probably inevitable.  It is not what frequency you are on, it is just the fact that you are on AM that prompts this type of behavior.  We not only receive this type of harassment in the so-called AM window or "ghetto" region, we will have to deal with it anywhere in the band that we chose to operate.   The best way to deal with it is still just ignore it and strap away!  Persistence will win out over this stuff.  When they realize that we are not going to give-up or stop using our favorite mode, they will eventually lose interest. 

I do believe that we have won a number of battles, if not the war.  AM has become (once again) a widely accepted mode on the bands and seems to be gaining strength in numbers every day. 

73,  Jack, W9GT

...what is happening is what all we Canadians dreaded, and feared. it used to be very quiet down there. just us.. no qwarm, carriers, jerks, it WAS nice...i guess it is true, the level of license does not dictate one's intelligence. at least we Canadians can operate phone down to 3500kc, without these idiots (for now)...  ..tim...sk..

Todd,
Had a "gut feeling" that this behavior would just "expand" after the phone expansion privileges were
ok`ed by the FCC.

The original rationale for the 3880-3885 ghetto where guys were "limited" for AM and thus were
forced to fight for a little "turf" was supposed to be "cured" by the phone expansion on 75.

Looks like it just made a "bigger yard" with a larger fence for many of these guys to "play"
and wreak havoc.
So much for 75 and its notorious reputation,--"more space", just meant "more play".

                                                 73, Rene, K1MVP

Welcome Back, Rene.  ;)

Tnx Todd,
I do get on cw, lately and have even met a "newbie" on cw (no code general) who is doing his best
to learn cw,--now THAT IS encouraging,IMO.
So my hope is being restored after all in the future of HR.
Now if 75 meters could be "cleaned up" from the troublemakers,--THAT would really be great.

                                            73, Rene
P.S.,
I may even finish up my 100 watt homebrew rig, and put it on AM,(if I can find a CVM-2)
or equivalent mod transformer.

Hi Rene,

Long time no see. :)  The Viking 2 is just about ready to rock with the SX-96.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Hi Ellen,
Been catching up on home projects(and also HR projects too).
The Viking 2 should make a real nice "match" with the ol "96".

Forgot how long ago I sold it to you(time does fly) and have since acquired a couple of BC-348`s
that I have recapped and restored,--and they are fairly nice receivers once they are aligned
and running right.

They are not a "390" but then again,--ya can get one for a lot less $$$.

Hope to get back on AM sometime this spring,--hopefully 40 meters will get better.

                                 73`s,-- nice to hear from you, Rene --K1MVP