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THE AM BULLETIN BOARD => QSO => Topic started by: WB3LEQ on February 23, 2008, 08:13:53 AM



Title: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB3LEQ on February 23, 2008, 08:13:53 AM
I did a check on my reference number which is in the 920000 range.  It said my application was approved and awaiting mailing.

WTAE in Pittsburgh announced the converter boxes are now available locally but some stores have them tuck away in semi secluded areas with staff that in some cases did not know they were in stock and for sale! 

Walmart has two models listed online in the $49+ tax:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8343230 
and
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870

So has anyone received their digital TV converter box coupons?


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: KF1Z on February 23, 2008, 08:32:58 AM
Nope... not yet...

Not that I'll need them now....
Needed a new TV... everything was turning green....
Besides, that the channel changin' knobs was wearin out!


Got a digital-ready .. 24"  bran-spank-me new for $140..
No converter box needed..



Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: k4kyv on February 23, 2008, 01:14:05 PM
I haven't checked into it yet.  I seem to have read somewhere that if you tell them you have cable, satellite or already have a working digital set, you are not eligible.

We use cable (got bare-bones basic TV along with high speed internet), but my wife has a rabbit-ears set upstairs (actually, a JS clip-lead antenna).

The cable service is in my name, so I suppose if that is a disqualification, we could apply in her name.  She's the only one who regularly uses that TV anyway.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: N1ESE on February 23, 2008, 01:54:01 PM
What's a television?   ;D

I haven't owned a TV in probably 5 years and don't miss it.
 
- JT


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: K3ZS on February 24, 2008, 02:17:35 PM
I stated that I had cable/satellite service and asked for only one coupon.   According to the gov. web site, I was approved and the coupon was to be sent.  I may in the future want to take a TV on vacation or use one where I don't have cable and $40 off a $49 converter is worth it.    I just traded up to a digital HD Tivo unit.    I was surprised that most of the digital stations around this area are received better that the analog ones.    Several have digital, same frequency repeaters, most of them have 3 channels broadcasting at the same time.   The local PBS has one HD, and two regular feeds, all with separate programming most of the time.    With digital TV, I can get all the networks and PBS with an indoor rabbit ear type antenna sticky taped to the top of the TV.  Looks like I may not need the cable anymore, except my wife likes the other channels on the cable.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on February 24, 2008, 02:51:51 PM
I heard somewhere (NPR?) that they were starting to mail them out this coming Tuesday.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W1ATR on February 24, 2008, 03:03:03 PM
I changed the mercury vap rectifiers to the digital solid state ones, so my TV is ready to go. :P


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W1RKW on February 24, 2008, 03:57:22 PM
Does one have to apply for these coupons? If so, where does one go to apply?


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB3LEQ on February 24, 2008, 04:57:09 PM
Does one have to apply for these coupons? If so, where does one go to apply?

It's easy.  You can apply online at:
https://www.dtv2009.gov/


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W1TAV on February 24, 2008, 09:13:56 PM
That Was Easy!  :D I just used the link and requested 2 coupons.  Yes, all the sets in my home have satellite, however I depend on over the air for local programing. So having satellite should not be a disqualification from getting reimbursed.

Steve


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: KA8WTK on March 05, 2008, 12:39:27 PM
Received mine today. They look like credit cards and there is a list of retailers and model numbers that are available. They also have a web address where you can look up other retailers in your area and the latest model listing.

Bill
KA8WTK


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB3LEQ on March 05, 2008, 12:47:40 PM
Bill,
Did you receive one or two?  My status still shows I am approved & awaiting mailing. 


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: KA8WTK on March 05, 2008, 01:05:24 PM
Two


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W3RSW on March 05, 2008, 01:20:08 PM
Interesting in that the specs for converter boxes allow 300 ohm input if desired, analog pass-through to the detriment of sensitivity, etc.  Lots of good information here along with thee reasoning for same.  In the list of approved manufacturers I see only a few that will allow analog pass through.  The AWA will not be happy.
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2e.htm (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2e.htm) ;D


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: k4kyv on March 05, 2008, 02:10:22 PM
How long did it take?  I applied for mine 2-3 weeks ago and so far, have heard nothing. Or do they come in the kind of envelope that looks just like junk mail, in which case mine could have got accidentally tossed out.

Once, I almost discarded a refund check from a company worth hundreds of $$$.  It looked exactly like typical junk mail and as I was putting it in the daily junk mail pile to be thrown away, I just happened to recognise the company logo on the envelope and decided to open it.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: KA8WTK on March 05, 2008, 06:25:00 PM
Don,
  If I remember correctly, I applied on January 2. But, if they are starting to roll them out, it should not be too long before you get yours. 

Bill
KA8WTK


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB3LEQ on March 05, 2008, 06:32:28 PM
I applied on Jan 3rd so I may see something this week.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Ed/KB1HYS on March 05, 2008, 08:04:20 PM
I just received two coupons today.  I had applied back in December(?)
FWIW


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Ralph W3GL on March 05, 2008, 08:40:17 PM
Hey, you people that received your coupons...

What kind of envelope is being used?   

Does it look like JUNK MAIL?   

I applied back when this deal was first published and throw out several pieces of JUNK daily...


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: KA8WTK on March 06, 2008, 09:37:16 PM
The envelope says that it contains a "TV Converter Coupon" in the return address area.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: KA8WTK on March 06, 2008, 09:41:33 PM
Went out and bought a box tonight. HH Gregg had the Zenith (LG) DTT900 for $49.95, so I paid $9.95 after the coupon.
The thing works pretty nice. Some stations are full screen on my old TV, some are "wide" and some are letter boxed. I guess it depends on how they are transmitting the signal.
The upshot is that the reception is clearer, even on what were marginal UHF stations.

Not bad for 10 bucks.

Bill KA8WTK


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 07, 2008, 07:17:01 PM
My two $40 tickets arrived today.
Thanks for buying them for me.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 07, 2008, 10:12:49 PM
My two showed up today also. Maybe I'll swing over to RS and pick one up with the change from the C note I used to fill up the truck. Man those poor truck drivers diesel is going for $3.85. Time to present iraq with a bill to be paid in crude.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W4EWH on March 10, 2008, 04:00:18 PM
Mine arrived yesterday, and there are a couple of things that I'll mention:

  • They came in a very clearly marked envelope
  • They look and feel like credit cards
  • They're only valid for two months

Now that I'm ready to buy, does anyone know if Consumer Reports or other test reports are available for the various models? What stores are selling the converters?

73, Bill W1AC


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 10, 2008, 04:32:39 PM
I did notice a few of the converters on the list have a signal pass-through capability ( A bypass switch). I assume that means they can either pass analog signals through unaltered or serve as a converter from HD to analog. The pass-through capability would be useful where one receives analog TV translators or LPTV stations, which will continue broadcasting after the deadline.

I'm using one of the coupons to get a converter for my 1951 Zenith porthole set. Real B&W- Yeah!


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W9GT on March 10, 2008, 04:49:37 PM
Not sure if there is any parallel to the "off-the-air" digital converters, but if you are a Verizon FiOS customer, they are giving out digital converters for "free".  They are converting to 100% digital in April.....they say all TVs must have set top box or digital converter.  You just call them and they send them to you.  I asked for one for an extra TV, they sent me two.  I don't know how these boxes compare to the off-the-air models.  They are manufactured by Motorola.
Haven't hooked one up yet...but hope they are not susceptable to RFI problems(in or out).

73,  Jack, W9GT


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Jim, W5JO on March 19, 2008, 09:46:52 AM
The stagecoach with the mail finally arrived in Southern Oklahoma yesterday and my coupons were in the sack.  I noticed Bill asked if anyone had seen reports on various models and there weren't many answers.  Around here the RS store won't take the coupons so it leaves only Walmart (whopee). 

They have only two brands, the RCA (I hate RCA, cheap built and if they quit, the best place is the garbage can) and the Magnavox brand.  I have not seen a way to purchase on-line, I suppose because you must sign something to veryify you actually purchased the unit(s). 

Has anyone bought the Magnavox brand, and if so, what is your experience with it?


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: KB1IAW on March 19, 2008, 10:52:47 AM
Quote
The stagecoach with the mail finally arrived in Southern Oklahoma yesterday

Well, the dog sled with my coupons hasn't found it's way to Maine yet. I just checked the site and get the same message as before:  "Your application was recently approved and we are currently preparing to mail your coupons."


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Tom W2ILA on March 19, 2008, 10:57:40 AM
Wow - is this free money from our government? 
Bailout (or stimulus) candidates now:
TV watchers
or
Broadcasters
or
Wallyworld and the Chinese manufacturer of converter boxes.

   Tom


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Jim, W5JO on March 19, 2008, 10:35:45 PM

Wallyworld and the Chinese manufacturer of converter boxes.

   Tom

I do wish someone would explain why foreign auto makers have built plants here saying they can manufacture autos cheaper here than at home and we send most of everything out to China or elsewhere.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Opcom on March 19, 2008, 11:15:47 PM
Get one with an S-video output. That is the highest quality output signal allowed under the rules.

Unfortunately, they do not allow standard definition analog RGB/component outputs nor any kind of analog "VGA" or digital outputs. I wonder if the box could be opened and the analog RGB/component signals found inside. Need to know the chips being used.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W4EWH on March 20, 2008, 12:48:59 AM
I bought two Zenith units at Circuit City: they had them for $60, and with tax I paid $45.83.

First impressions:

  • Audio is a lot better
  • Sensitivity is very good, although I do have to move the rabbit ears if I change stations. The audio tends to drop out before the video freezes, and there's definitely no snow or noise - it's all there or none of it's there.
  • An outdoor antenna is probably essential

FWIW. YMMV.

73,

Bill W1AC


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: ka3zlr on March 20, 2008, 06:31:15 AM
To be Honest... We're ready to throw the thing out the door...why shud my capitol gains be used to further the addition of more LEO Space Junk...I think the continual bombardment of the planet with Controlled Media Wave lenghts is an Invasion of my Personal Air Space... 8)


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB3LEQ on March 22, 2008, 07:24:48 PM
Well they finally came today.  Two cards in two separate envelops.  Must have something to do with automatic processing or something.  Looks like we have a trip to Wallymart on Monday.  I think later I may send out a few signal reports to the chief engineers of the TV stations that I now watch on analog but no longer receive via the new improved digital system.  I know there will be quite a few of those.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W4EWH on March 23, 2008, 01:03:24 AM

I think later I may send out a few signal reports to the chief engineers of the TV stations that I now watch on analog but no longer receive via the new improved digital system.  I know there will be quite a few of those.


I've disconnected my converter and gone back to analog, since I'm using rabbit ears and the digital signal was always dropping out where the analog wouldn't.  HDTV definitely needs an exterior antenna.

Good luck.

73, Bill W1AC


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: K3ZS on March 23, 2008, 09:26:13 AM
Probably due to local conditions, but I went from receiving two snowy analog channels to 10 perfect digital channels most of the time with rabbit ears.    At times though some of them drop out and would be improved with an outdoor or attic UHF antenna.    Around here all the VHF stations are and will be on UHF after the transition.    One advantage of digital TV is the capability of same-channel repeater stations.    That is the case here, the local closest PBS and NBC stations put up a local repeater.    Apparently with digital TV, the echo cancellation capability will eliminate a weaker signal on the same frequency allowing same channel repeaters.    I can get all networks over the air now and could do away with the cable TV.    My wife still likes the Food channel so we keep the cable.   If you ever tasted my wife's daily gourmet dinners, I won't complain about that.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: N0WVA on March 23, 2008, 11:13:24 AM
Ive gone to FTA satellite,anyway, so only thing I might need a converter for is local weather. Im really enjoying the signal and the live news feeds are fun. When over-the-air finally goes to UHF, Im pretty sure I will have trouble receiving them because there are a couple analogs up there right now that are barely making it with a snowy drifty picture. And I have a deep fringe antenna.

With Ku band FTA I can get several PBS feeds, Create TV, Fox, Abc, NBC, tons of RTN, and another station that plays old b/w movies. I look for more stations to pop up as they migrate from the old C-band.

The complete system only cost me $250 and thats with a rotor and satellite finder!


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: K3ZS on March 23, 2008, 11:32:16 AM
I was going to ask what FTA is, but I googled it and found out.    I didn't know free satellite TV was around anymore.    I thought it left behind free C-band and was replaced by Dish and DirectTV networks.   I am going to look into this.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB3LEQ on March 24, 2008, 04:07:31 PM
I did some searching around and found Radio Shack was offering a $59 Zenith version converter and since it was priced at only ten dollars more than the one Wallymart was selling I figured I would buy it at Radio Shack.  We jumped in the truck and headed out to Radio Shack.  I went in and inquired about this converter.  The clerk informed me it was $69 and not $59 as Radio Shack.com was advertising.  So back into the truck and on to Wallymart.  We went in and found a stack of Magnavox units on a bottom shelf priced as advertised at $49.98  Pick one up and headed over to the clerk for the payment.  I handed the converter and the government issued card to her.  She looked at the card and had no idea on how to enter the transaction.  So ten minutes and two clerks later we were headed out the door and on our way home.

We got home and I unpacked the unit.  Since I have the VCR, antenna, and dvd players on a home cable system I opted to add it by using a UHF TV modulator and added it as UHF channel 16.  The setup was relatively simple after hooking it's input to the antenna and the video and audio outputs to the modulator.  Some units do an automatic setup scan to locate available channels but this one requires some manual input.  After doing the channel setup scan I checked on what was available to me.  I now have a total of two stations available which is eight less than what I currently have on VHF.  Of the two one that I get is ABC out of Pittsburgh.  It will not play more than three minutes without loosing the signal which causes picture blocking.  If I move the antenna more than about four degrees I totally loose the Pittsburgh station.  I am using a rotor controlled fringe range antenna at 37 feet with a Channel Master preamp and low loss coaxial cable into the house.  The antenna tower sets against the chimney and is a foot away from the house so there is not an excessive cable run from the antenna to the house.

So the bottom line is when February 2009 gets here I will have free to air tv that rivals the reception that I had when I was growing up here in the 50's and early 60's.  I'm not going back to cable or satellite tv where I have to pay for local programming. 


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB2EMS on March 24, 2008, 04:53:23 PM
About the same results here, instead of picking up the additional digital channels being broadcast, I'm missing whole networks like ABC and CBS that I pick up fine on analog. Unless the digital co-transmitters are running a lot less power now than they will on the day of the big switchover it doesn't look good for digital. When half my channels go away, I may just say the heck with TV and concentrate on other things. Not like it would be a big loss most days...   I have no desire to start paying for cable or satellite.

I live in the fringe, but live on a hilltop and can see clusters of all the major networks on analog from 3 or 4 different cities (Primarily watch Syracuse feeds, but also see Binghamton, Elmira, and Rochester, and some days Toronto!) using a good sized antenna and rotor. I can see Fox's blowtorch in Syracuse P4 in the basement with no antenna!

So, now that congress has 'fixed' my television viewing, now they want to take over and fix my health care?



Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB3LEQ on March 27, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
Just an update on the new whiz bang digital TV.  I said earlier I was back to two stations that I can receive.  Well today it has been a rainy day.  Channel 4 WTAE-DT 4.1 has had the error block up "NO SIGNAL" during most of the day.  It is still not watchable with the signal strength hovering from 0 - 17.  Attached is a screen shot during peak signal conditions.  Looks like I will have to look into one of those Free To Air satellite systems.  It's that or watch PBS out of Morgantown, WV and nothing else forever!


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Jim, W5JO on March 27, 2008, 07:35:50 PM
It turns out the retailers are not confident they are going to sell many of these boxes in this neighborhood.  The local RS only had the Data Stream and did not take the coupons.  The one about 35 miles away had the Zenith and does.  The Wal-Mart stores only had the RCA and none of them plan to order additional boxes when the supply is depleted.

So I bought the Zenith for my location.  I receive two analog channels here, 10 and 12.  10 is marginal and 12 is very clear with analog signals.  With the converter box attached, I can't find 12 and 10 is the only station I receive.  Fortunately I only wanted it for weather here in tornado alley, for when the storms arrive from the Southwest they block my satellite dish wiping out any storm reports on TV.  By going to the DTV station I receive I should be ok.  They broadcast radar 24/7 until storms approach then they switch to weather related information.

But with my HDTV the new 16:9 format does not fill the screen.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB2EMS on March 27, 2008, 10:05:36 PM
I'm wondering if the digital transmissions at this point are at the power level they will be after the big switch next year. I think I remember reading that a lot of the stations that were putting digital streams on the air because of the FCC mandate were doing it at lower power levels than their main analog transmitters. I think it was both a cost of the transmitter issue for some of them, and also the cost of power. It's pretty expensive to run a pair of transmitters sucking down the watts when there's only maybe 5% of the folks watching the digtal one yet.

In fact I think I recall some folks talking about an upgrade path using a digital exciter on a lower power PA, and then switching it over to the current high power PA when analog goes off. Anyone have any hard data on that? Something I picked up wandering around NAB I think.

If the current crop of digital stations I'm trying to receive are 10 db down from where they're going to be after the switch, then I'm not too worried about my current results. But if this is all the better they are going to be then I think the whole thing is a big swindle. But maybe that's ok, less TV, more radio!



Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: N0WVA on March 28, 2008, 10:30:08 PM
Currently Im getting a good analog picture and am also receiving FTA which is digital,MPEG. Switching back and forth on the same programming showed that the analog picture was crisp, more defined, and had truer color than the blurry,smudgy digital picture. Is this the way over the air digital is going to look?

I just dont get it. All the hype and for less quality. Whats the point in going hi-definition with a huge screen when all it will see is you-tube quality video? Seems like there should at least be some standards required here.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: N0WVA on March 28, 2008, 10:53:48 PM
Here is a good treatise on that nasty ole MPEG signal. Its all in the compression,man.

http://www.digitaltvdesignline.com/howto/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=180207633&pgno=1

So digital CAN be better, but it wont be because no guidlines are in place to limit the amount of compression and artifacts which can be in the signal.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB2EMS on March 29, 2008, 06:13:27 PM
Yes, how well the compression is done is a big part of it. But also how the stations choose to use their bandwidth. I run an IPTV service at the University where I work. We stream standard definition video at 3.8-6 mbs and it looks pretty good. The stuff that comes out of the high end encoders looks better than the $1000 portable units we use for field use, but both look better than VHS. The stuff that is put up on the digital birds looks better yet, they use higher end encoders, some of them do more than one pass. The mpeg on DVD's is better yet, very high end encoders with no worry about real time - make multiple passes and really optimize it.

As far as how they use their bandwidth, the allocation can carry one HD channel. Or it can carry 4 lower end SD channels. Which choice do you think offers more advertising revenue to the station owner? I doubt you can sell commercials for 4x when they are paired with an HD program.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Tom WA3KLR on April 18, 2008, 07:12:24 PM
I received my DTV converter coupon today.

I ordered it February 16th on-line.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: N8LGU on April 21, 2008, 10:15:10 AM
    I got mine in the mail Friday...now all of the local retailers are out of stock.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Tom WA3KLR on April 23, 2008, 08:33:34 PM
I bought my DTV converter today at the Wal-Mart in Clinton, NJ.  What they have in stock is the Magnavox TB100MW9.   With taxes added, I wound up shelling out $13.36 in cash along with the $40 coupon card.

I probably won't hook it up until this weekend.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: k4kyv on April 29, 2008, 09:23:17 PM
My voucher came in last week.  I took it to the local Wal-of-China Mart, but they were out of stock, but the employee was able to access the computer and  found another store about 5 miles up the  road that had one.  The computer showed 2 in stock, but when I arrived, they had about a half dozen.

With the voucher I paid a little over $12 for a Magnavox unit, which included sales tax on the full cost of the unit.  Last night I connected it to the little TV my wife has in the bedroom that uses rabbit ears.  In analogue mode the picture has always been snowy and only 2 or 3 channels come in well enough to view.  I was  surprised when I got it set up that the picture comes in as clear as on the TV downstairs that is fed with cable, and was able to receive about a half dozen channels.  On one of the channels I kept getting a pixelling effect and frequent "no signal" error messages, but a slight repositioning of the antenna seemed to cure that.

I notice on some channels the picture doesn't fill out the full screen, leaving the 19" screen looking more like a little 15" or 17" screen.  On other channels I get full screen.

The system works better than I thought it would as long as I  can get enough signal from the rabbit ears to maintain lock.  Digital is more like a wide-band FM signal in that you either have a perfect full-quieting image or nothing at all.

I am wondering if when they turn off the analogue signal they will put full power into the digital to make it more  reliable.  What they are running now is a hybrid signal kind of like IBOC radio, but at least the digital doesn't seem to degrade the analogue signal as in the case of IBOC AM.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: N3DRB The Derb on April 29, 2008, 10:51:24 PM
I have the elgato eyeTV 500 which is a dvr and a hd tv that hooks up to your mac. So I watch and record HD on my mac. The only problem is that there just bout never anything on worth watching. the quality is great, but a turd in HD is just a more realistic turd.

my cable provider encrypts everything on the cable line, but I get 22+ OTA channels with a 22 element RCA on the roof pointed towards DC, along with a mast mounted Wineguard 22 db preamp. I have a 2400 ft mountain ridge in the way, but I get 85 to 90 + on most channels.

TV sux. 90% corporate gangster mind control and disinformation.




Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB2EMS on April 30, 2008, 12:22:23 AM
Quote
I am wondering if when they turn off the analogue signal they will put full power into the digital to make it more  reliable.  What they are running now is a hybrid signal kind of like IBOC radio, but at least the digital doesn't seem to degrade the analogue signal as in the case of IBOC AM.

Don,

From what I've been able to find out, many if not most of the digital signals are in a different part of the spectrum even though they share the same channel number. ie analog 5 is down in the low VHF, but 5.1, 5.2, 5.2, 5.4 may actually be in the UHF spectrum on channel 17 or some other UHF allocation. Apparently some stations will be doing digital in the VHF spectrum, but most are being moved to UHF for their digital allocations. As far as I've been able to determine it's not a case of 'stacking' the digital modulations on top of the analog signal like IBOC tries to do.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programming/index.php, click on the "over the air" broadcast icon for the network in question and then pick the media market that corresponds to your area. Left click on the bubbles on the map and it will show you the details on that station including transmitter power and the actual RF channel for digital output. I noticed that some of the digital stations in my area are very low RF output (1kw) which makes me think they will probably run that through an amp once they turn off the analog station and it's amp. Paying two 500kw power bills is probably no fun at all...



Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: k4kyv on April 30, 2008, 05:20:23 PM
From what I've been able to find out, many if not most of the digital signals are in a different part of the spectrum even though they share the same channel number. ie analog 5 is down in the low VHF, but 5.1, 5.2, 5.2, 5.4 may actually be in the UHF spectrum on channel 17 or some other UHF allocation.

Wouldn't that cause a problem with people using roof-top antennae that are specific to VHF or UHF?  Or is a VHF specific antenna so obsolete that they assume everyone has a combo antenna now?  It's been a long time since I bought a rooftop TV antenna.

But if what you say is true, that must be where they will be getting that VHF spectrum they want to auction off, to ultimately stick the public with the bill for zillions of dollars.

Once they phase out analogue VHF, that should end the old harmonic TVI problem with HF transmitters once and for all.  That will be great for those unfortunate enough to have neighbours receiving their TV signal over the air on VHF with a crappy antenna.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: flintstone mop on April 30, 2008, 10:02:07 PM
I'm hearing bad news for us purists that the DAM cable companies are compressing 3 HD channels into one analog slot on their cable systems. "THEY" won't tell which ones are getting the extra whamo of compression. The satellite folks seem to be giving a better value for not compressing so much, but the old problem is going to be our enemy RF bandwidth.
I guess it's costing everyone dearly to get into the HD race for who can carry the most HD channels. Where is that FIOS thing????
Fred


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: flintstone mop on April 30, 2008, 10:06:11 PM
FINALLY a real deadline to go digital. The ONLY changeover to a digital service that we can see and hear a difference!!!!!!!!!! Godd-bye Never The Same Color

Fred


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on April 30, 2008, 11:09:53 PM
From what I've been able to find out, many if not most of the digital signals are in a different part of the spectrum even though they share the same channel number. ie analog 5 is down in the low VHF, but 5.1, 5.2, 5.2, 5.4 may actually be in the UHF spectrum on channel 17 or some other UHF allocation.

Wouldn't that cause a problem with people using roof-top antennae that are specific to VHF or UHF?  Or is a VHF specific antenna so obsolete that they assume everyone has a combo antenna now?  It's been a long time since I bought a rooftop TV antenna.

But if what you say is true, that must be where they will be getting that VHF spectrum they want to auction off, to ultimately stick the public with the bill for zillions of dollars.

Once they phase out analogue VHF, that should end the old harmonic TVI problem with HF transmitters once and for all.  That will be great for those unfortunate enough to have neighbours receiving their TV signal over the air on VHF with a crappy antenna.

I'm 60 miles from the Denver TV stations and I just bought top quality VHF-only and UHF-only Winegard antennas and hung them at 80' up on the tower last weekend. They still are making the VHF antennas, in my area a least one Denver DTV station will remain on VHF (Channel 12). I expect the future VHF TV antennas will only be for channels 7-13, without the large elements no longer needed for 2-6. The mega-fringe VHF jobs with the 15' booms will soon be history. But I am also interested in FM reception on 88-108. From the noise I'm seeing on analog, I will need add a mast-mounted preamp for UHF and digital. My antennas feed maybe 175' of RG-6, and then a 6-way splitter which feeds jacks around the house. Way too much loss.

Derb is absolutely right, 90% of teevee is garbage. But I am NOT going to pay $80/mo or so for satellite TV..It's not worth it to us.  I'd consider $25/month for a few satellite channels of my choosing, none of the satellite providers offer a la carte packages.

The free Denver stations carry pro football and baseball, local and network news, and there's some neat multicasting stuff going to happen on digital.
Off-air forever at the HG household.



Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on May 01, 2008, 01:36:42 AM
Got my coupon on Tuesday and went over to Circuit City today(4/30) and picked up a Zenith unit. Receives 29 digital channels with an antenna I put up sometime in the 70's. Use to be plagued with some type of motor interference late afternoons on Ch. 2 and 4. Now, with the box, no interference, and the quality of all the channels is great. Of course, still have the cable for all the super stuff on the "big" TV's.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB3LEQ on May 01, 2008, 07:11:45 PM
Just as information, I live 15 miles from the local Morgantown, WV digital transmitter which is considered as "line of sight" on the HDTV forums.  My signal strength is usually in the 40 - 50% range.  Last week we had a few heavy rain down pours.  The rain scattered the digital stream and with a reading of 45% on the built in meter scale I was UNABLE to receive ANYTHING except garbled video with zero audio.  All the big three networks out of Pittsburgh are broadcasting with their current output listed as 1000.0 KW.  Of these I can OCCASIONALLY receive channel 4.1 & 4.2 provided the skies are clear between here and Pittsburgh.  During heavy summer storms WTAE in Pittsburgh goes into its weather alert mode providing real time warnings for severe windshear & areas of storm rotation that could be forming tornadoes.  These new DTV working parameters defeat the Emergency Alert System.  How can you be provided with information that has pending storm damage if you can not see it being sent out?  With this in mind I personally feel that the new digital TV format constitutes a threat to general public safety.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W4EWH on May 01, 2008, 07:21:59 PM
I'm hearing bad news for us purists ...

Fred,

That should be "we purists".

Bill, who couldn't resist


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W4EWH on May 01, 2008, 07:24:37 PM
Godd-bye Never The Same Color

Fred

I think you mean "Never Twice the Same Color.

Bill "Anal retentives of the world, unite" W1AC


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: ka3zlr on May 01, 2008, 07:47:15 PM
Ditto on the TV leaving alot to be desired...I agree....Springtime is upon us now and Outside is where it's at for me...They couldn't give me a big screen TV.. Told the Kids..if that's what "you" want....knock yourself out in "your" own apartment...it's all over kill now anyhow...

However i did convert a little transistor radio i had since i was a kid to 160 it's in the garage..hooked it into the stereo out there...cold beer in the little frig out there Johnny Cash and Merle Haggard on the 8 track....a little slice of Red Neck heaven...Kamon... ;D


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WB2EMS on May 01, 2008, 11:09:55 PM
Quote
Wouldn't that cause a problem with people using roof-top antennae that are specific to VHF or UHF?  Or is a VHF specific antenna so obsolete that they assume everyone has a combo antenna now?  It's been a long time since I bought a rooftop TV antenna.

Most of the antennas that I have seen in recent years seem to be LPA's covering the low and high VHF portions with another section tacked on that is specific to UHF, sometimes even with a separate feedpoint. Or you can buy band specific antennas, but those are harder to find. I think pretty much any metro area has had a mix of VHF and UHF channels once they got more than the big 3 networks, so a broad band antenna system seems to be the standard offering. With the move to UHF for digital I see a lot of emphasis on higher gain "HDTV capable" antennas.

Quote
But if what you say is true, that must be where they will be getting that VHF spectrum they want to auction off, to ultimately stick the public with the bill for zillions of dollars.

Bingo!

Quote
Once they phase out analogue VHF, that should end the old harmonic TVI problem with HF transmitters once and for all.  That will be great for those unfortunate enough to have neighbours receiving their TV signal over the air on VHF with a crappy antenna.

Apparently there will still be some locations, I think 6 metro areas was what I read, where there will be low VHF stations, but yes for most folks the harmonic issues should be better. Now whether the new digital converter boxes hooked up to, oh say 66' of coax cable, will suffer from fundamental overload and puke pixels when you fire up is something yet to be determined.



Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: N0WVA on May 01, 2008, 11:12:28 PM
Just as information, I live 15 miles from the local Morgantown, WV digital transmitter which is considered as "line of sight" on the HDTV forums.  My signal strength is usually in the 40 - 50% range.  Last week we had a few heavy rain down pours.  The rain scattered the digital stream and with a reading of 45% on the built in meter scale I was UNABLE to receive ANYTHING except garbled video with zero audio.  All the big three networks out of Pittsburgh are broadcasting with their current output listed as 1000.0 KW.  Of these I can OCCASIONALLY receive channel 4.1 & 4.2 provided the skies are clear between here and Pittsburgh.  During heavy summer storms WTAE in Pittsburgh goes into its weather alert mode providing real time warnings for severe windshear & areas of storm rotation that could be forming tornadoes.  These new DTV working parameters defeat the Emergency Alert System.  How can you be provided with information that has pending storm damage if you can not see it being sent out?  With this in mind I personally feel that the new digital TV format constitutes a threat to general public safety.

Yep, thats the only reason Im bothering with this at all. I guess it wouldnt matter anyway though, we dont have a basement.


"DTV: Turn On, Tune, In And Drop Out!"


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: WU2D on May 02, 2008, 08:30:27 AM
The US over the air standard for Digital is 8VSB a form of AM, so it is appropriate that we are bitching. Actually the signal is digital AM.

Imaging taking a carrier and amplitude modulating it to 8 discrete levels, each level representing one digital state (data word). The fast data modulation process of course causes two sidebands to occur. The lower sideband is filtered (thus it is similar to analog TV) thge V in 8VSB stands for the same thing - Vestigal Sideband.

So the HDTVtuner demodulator has the dubious job of telling which level 1 through 8 it is seeing at any instant in the presence of fading, multipath interference, co-channel interference - all the usual AM stuff.

The System in Europe is totally different - miles different - like real different. They use a system called OFDM which is the same multicarrier type used on 802.11g. It is digital (real digital) and does not suffer from the problems mentioned since several hundred of the carriers can be wiped out and it still corrects the signal.

It does share a couple of common things with the US system, at the end of the path - you lose everything! and MPEG encoding.

Mike WU2D 


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: W4EWH on May 02, 2008, 11:28:34 AM

Quote
Once they phase out analogue VHF, that should end the old harmonic TVI problem with HF transmitters once and for all.  That will be great for those unfortunate enough to have neighbours receiving their TV signal over the air on VHF with a crappy antenna.

Apparently there will still be some locations, I think 6 metro areas was what I read, where there will be low VHF stations, but yes for most folks the harmonic issues should be better. Now whether the new digital converter boxes hooked up to, oh say 66' of coax cable, will suffer from fundamental overload and puke pixels when you fire up is something yet to be determined.


I think the biggest advantage of DTV is that it will mute itself instead of passing the interfering signal through. I started doing voice on six meters back in the Sixties, and I think I had a bigger audience on channel four than on 50.4 MHz! I had only to key the rig and my sisters would yell out my name at the top of their lungs - but my father wasn't as amusing to listen to, so I put a length of twin lead across the input to cure the problem, much to my sisters' delight.

I have a Gonset G-50 and a couple of Clegg 99'ers (my very first AM rig) downstairs on the shelf, just waiting for the sunspots.

73, Bill W1AC


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: k4kyv on May 04, 2008, 02:50:42 PM

I think the biggest advantage of DTV is that it will mute itself instead of passing the interfering signal through.

At least the TV should just puke pixels with no way to identify you as triggering the problem, unless they simpltaneously have an audio rectification problem in the TV.

As for what the satellite companies offer, DishNet used to offer a limited choice of stations à la carte.  You could order stations in a specific foreign language.  I recall a choice of French speaking stations from Europe, or Arabic speakers from somewhere in the middle east IIRC, for about $20 a month.  I haven't checked recently to see if they still offer that service.


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: Mike/W8BAC on May 05, 2008, 10:45:44 AM
Here is an interesting story on subject from NPR this weekend. Click the "Listen" link.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90157323 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90157323)


Title: Re: Anybody receive their digital TV converter box coupons?
Post by: steve_qix on May 10, 2008, 02:17:42 PM
Got mine yesterday (2 coupons).  I think it took about 50 days or so.

I didn't realize they expired.  These are good until 7/29/08.

Regards,

Steve
AMfone - Dedicated to Amplitude Modulation on the Amateur Radio Bands