The AM Forum

  hi from tim....i'd like to make some recordings of off the air stuff...
   i guess i'm looking for something small, line in etc...output to computer for emailing, etc...any ideas of these?...are they using a built in "hard drive", or some kind of disc?....suggestions please.....sk...

Hi Tim,

I like Minidisc and have three small recorders - refuse of the 90's!

The older minidisc recorders can not transfer files directly to a PC. The last generations did have a method to do it via USB and a program but I am not so sure it worked. The technology died before its time. Minidisc recorders were designed to replace the big cassette recorders like the Marantz, used for news interviews, so they had to be good.

I use Minidisc here to do something like what you want to do. Make recordings off the air. Several others use them in the same way. The audio compression scheme is called ATRAC. It is a "lossless" type designed for music. 

I simply play the files into my sound card and then reduce them into small MP-3 segments using freeware programs. My NERO package does the same thing now. 

Mike Wu2D

a simple and cheap mp3 player recorder can be had from walmart kmart tigerdirect and so on cost is gonna be around 60 bucks and the recordings are already in mp3 for easy emailing

Searching the net, all the $60 range flash memory recorders I have seen are classed as "voice recorders".  The high frequency range goes up to about 7K, but inevitably the low frequency  response goes down only to about 300~.  Otherwise the quality is ok.

Whoever designed those things must  have been a slopbucketeer.

I don't think anyone sells mini-disc recorders any more.

The only thing I have found with decent low frequency response is a "professional"  flash-memory recorder selling anywhere from $600 to $5K or more.  I haven't found anything in between.  Monaural would be OK, but I would like a decent low frequency response that goes below 100~.  I wouldn't mind paying $100 or so, and the thing doesn't have to be the size of a key chain; in fact I would prefer something large enough that I wouldn't have to look for it every time I used it.

...the items i've seen so far, will record FM broadcasts, as well as voice, but DO NOT have an input line. they rely on a small mic for voice.  i'm looking for an item that would actually plug into my receiver, to record....the mini discs DID have this feature.
 ok, if anyone knows of a MP3 thing that will record like this, please let me know.  i would appreciate a name as well to this item....sk...

I can vouch for what works here.
I have a couple of the Sony digital recorders, both have a line in and line out.
They offer a software package to upload the audio to the computer via USB, but the software does not run on my Mac.
So I just use the audio port and a Mac app to capture and edit the software.

I have two models, a flashy metal one I use professionally in meetings, and the Plain Jane version, I call it the "Riley Special", which I keep in the hamshack.

For the Plain Jane unit, Sony Model ICD-P520,
See -> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8231282&type=product&id=1168042838361&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=8231282

For the Uber fancy unit, Sony Model ICDSX57DR9,
See -> http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=171880&WT.mc_n=4&WT.mc_t=U&cm_ven=COMPARISON%20SHOPPING&cm_cat=GOOGLE&cm_pla=DATAFEED-%3EPRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=4

BAH
Open reel is the only way.

Ah, but can you fit 130 hours on a reel of tape?  ;D

I downloaded the operator's manual of the ICD-P520 from the Sony.com website and the frequency response is:

.   HQ 260 - 6800 Hz.
SP/LP 220 - 3400 Hz.

That's the problem.  None of them have any bass response.  I am looking for one that would be flat to below 100 Hz.

Also, the long play modes sound warbly on the ones I have played with.  It clears up in the highest quality mode, but the lack of lows still makes them sound tinny. 

From the ICD-SX57 manual:

STHQ 80 - 20,000 Hz.
ST     80 - 16,500 Hz.
STLP  80 -  7,000 Hz.
SP     80 -  6,000 Hz.
LP     80 -  3,500 Hz.

260-6800, come on that's not that bad for a unit that costs $59.  ;)


You could try this one, found it in my email today from BSW.
http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=PMD620
Pricey, but the audio specs - Frequency Response - 20Hz ~ 20kHz

I am looking for something intermediately between the $59 unit and the Marantz $399 unit.  80-8000 monaural for $125 maybe?

I just bought one and recorded you (KYV) on it about 10 minutes ago.  A clip is attached.

 The freq resp is the least of its problems.

Like so many consumer devices, this one is plagued with the mandatory auto level control with no way to disable it.
This makes it impossible to do anything serious with it when using an external mic/cable to line in.

The only way I could get a reasonable clip was to set the sensitivity to "L" and lay the unit on top of the speaker of my S38.  That is: speaker to built in mic.... not a high class hookup but it works better than any other I tried.  I used the S38 because it is the only receiver I have with a speaker on top to set it on.

This is the clip attached, all the others are useless as the background screams up between every word you say and it sounds like you are breathing in my face.

Great for reporting naughty hams to the FCC but not so hot for evaluating audio quality.

Jack

I didn't hear much in the way of low end response on Don in that clip. Either the recorder of the receiver is chopping it off.

Yeah, no lows on Don and I can hear the room where Jack set it up.
Acoustic coupling will do that.

I forgot about the mandatory ALC on these things.
That blows the ability to show compression levels as transmitted.

Don are you sold on having to have a digital recorder?
I can send you a nice Marantz portable hissette machine, the PMD 221.
Takes chrome tape, 40-12K response, and two-speeds in case there's an old buzzard in there.
All it needs is a drive belt and it's good to go for many years.
Cost of shipping and its yours.
Let me know.

---

(http://www.martelelectronics.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/PMD20154.jpg)

http://d-mpro.com/users/getdownload.asp?DownloadID=215]manual (http://d-mpro.com/users/getdownload.asp?DownloadID=215)

Spec sheet:

That Marantz is the exact unit I use in the shack to record on-air stuff. Works exceedingly well.  I then take the output to my computer to  do mp3's.

I would have died for that Marantz when I was doing film production.

Anyway, I listened to my clips from last night again and find that the line in does produce better fidelity but the AGC spoils the big picture.

I have another clip combing KYV with W1IA with line in.

What is interesting is that Brent is nearly unrecognizable but Don is familiar in spite of Don's lower pitched voice.

Jack

Suggest you up your bit rate when making MP3s. The 16 kbps seems to be really chopping up the audio. Try 128 kbps for starters.

Paul, I am afraid you have just made me an offer I can't refuse.  Pse let me know what the shipping costs are.

Do you know offhand where I might be able to purchase a replacement drive belt, before I start a lengthy web search?

Thanks.

Don

Don, let me check with a local electronics emporium tomorrow, and I'll report back. They have drive belts hanging on the wall, and that is one of their specialties.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know the sampling rate.  There isn't clue in the manual that came with it?

However, I downloaded a software recorder that does 128 kbps for only $29 and it works like a charm.  Condx too lousy tonite to record anyone but the playback is indistinguishable from the original when played back through the same speakers.

This may be old news but seems to fit into the discussion if on air recording is what is wanted.  AD Dave sent me the link and if anyone is interested it is http://www.artech365.com/winadr/index.htm

What I was looking for was something to record my audio transmitting into a dummy load so I can make EQ adjustments to suit my whims.  The hand held just is not up to that but I will no doubt find some other use for it.

js

Hubbout this nice Nagra III? http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Nagra-reel-to-reel-Tape-recorder-ex-ABC_W0QQitemZ290182143031QQihZ019QQcategoryZ15000QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Nagra-reel-to-reel-Tape-recorder-ex-ABC_W0QQitemZ290182143031QQihZ019QQcategoryZ15000QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Don,  I spoke to Gervais Electronics, and they tell me that they may have the belt(s). The PMD221 uses four (4) belts, and they'd need to know which one. They need measurements (length or diameter?). Maybe you can call them:  613-738-3101 
www.gervaiselectronics.ca

Alternatively, you can deal with an electronics emporium closer to you, who deal with repair parts, or who sell to repair shops.

Sony MDSJE480 MiniDisc Player/Recorder  $145 at Amazon.
Frequency response 5 - 20,000 Hz., 24 bits.

Joe W3GMS has a previous model - the MDSJE320 I think.  They do 72 minutes, but the -480 has a 4X mode.

Each MP3 file has a header that contains info, including the sample rate and encoding bit rate. Most MP3 player applications will give you access to this info.

Don I sent the machine to your callbook address in Saturday's mail, insured.
Before I packed it up, I saw one of my notation stickers on there that I use when I put something up on the shelf (12/96 !!!). The failure mode was a squeaking sound whenever the motor was powered up.

This made me curious, so I dropped three "D" cells in there to recall what's what.

Yep, there's the squeak, but it is somewhat specific to how you hold the machine. These were used off-the-shoulder on a strap as newsgathering audio recorders, but also can easily be used on a tabletop. So the loading on the belts and idler wheels varied a lot.  The single motor is powered up for all tape movement, and can be made to idle by pressing Play and Pause. The Tape Speed switch, and the varispeed pot both affect the motor speed, including when you're in the the FFwd and Rew functions.

When you get it, the transport assy is accessed from above, not the panel on the bottom (tried having a look there but, nope, just the bottom of the main circuit board seen).

Rest of it seems fine. I was reminded of the substantial metal case that helps keep out RF. And, FWIW, it's made in Japan not China.

In addition to the info from Ed, VA3ES, maybe do a web search, I think factory Marantz (800) 654-6633 sells directly, but there are many many of these things floating around and are serviced by third-party outfits.

The machine could probably use a full set of belts while you can still get them, but hold off in case there's a simple drop of synthetic oil to put somewhere that could do the trick.  This machine spent many years in the trunk of the car and maybe that cooked some of the lube out of it.

Thanks for your trouble, Paul.  I'll reimburse you for your shipping expenses, and try to get it running again.