The AM Forum

I've had my old 95 Ford since new, and at over 200,000 miles, it's never cost $140.00 to fill it up with diesel.

$3.599/gal today

This is getting a little ridiculous now.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid it's only going to get worse.

It is now inevitable that the price of crude oil will surpass $100.00/bbl within the next few weeks (or more probably sooner), and it really has'nt gotten all that cold out yet, which has dampened the demand for home heating oil. Once the demand for heating oil increases, this will put more pressure on gasoline prices, and they will rise further.

73,

Bruce

Forget it!

Soon it will be $ 5.00 a gallon, and you know just another bump in the road.

Afterall, latest word is the economy is good, thousand of new jobs have been
created, all paying $ 7.50 an hour.

It's alright, got an election coming up.

Just keep putting em back in, don't say nothing, don't do nothing.

Interesting point my late father-in-law had told me thirty years ago, too bad
you will never see regular person be President.

Regards,

KC1XF

The economy is doing so great that this past week my 401K account dropped by almost $8000 when the stock market dropped.

The same old crap will continue, regardless of who wins the election.

To get an idea of why, look at this (http://www.politicalcompass.org/usprimaries2007).

So don't expect to see gas prices, the war, the other war, BPL, the bandwidth issue, AM IBOC, the p.e.p. bullshit or slopbucketeers go away, regardless.

Which reminds me.  I was listening on 75 a couple of weeks ago, and it sounded like the piss 'n moan net has been reactivated.  Anyone know its scheduled time?

That is right Don, question in a C/W song "How highs the water Mama", well it's pretty high now. We just got to keep our heads up.

73,

Fred
KC1XF

I hope all you guys remember who screwed you the next time you vote

Who?

And HRC if elected will "fix" this whole mess?---sure.
                                                   73, K1MVP

P.S.,--got to be careful, as to where this thread could lead,--no politics or religion if I recall.

        "  Who?  "

        They.            klc

Where was "they" when gas prices were 50-70 cents lower, just a few months ago?

Anyone who thinks politicians have any control over gas prices (other than taxes) is out to lunch.

Ah yes, an old Johnny Cash classic.

73,
Ellen - AF9J
Where Regular gas is $3.10/gallon

  "  Where was "they" when gas prices were 50-70 cents lower, just a few months ago?   "

They was riding around in Black Hell ocopters, controlling our thought.

There is something we can do.

We can vote for those politicos, from either party, who promise to fast track new refineries, open up drilling and exploration and otherwise put policies in place that will lead to increases in supply of petro products.

Oil & gas are commodities like any other & their price fluctuates based on supply & demand. Demand has been growing and will continue to grow at a rapid pace. The supply has not kept up with this increase in demand. No new U.S. refineries in 30+ years, no new drilling anywhere.

This is clearly a suicidal path that is guaranteed to lead to much, much higher prices & extreme economic hardship.

And forget alternative fuels, at least in our lifetime. They are all economically unfeasable.

Unless someone has revoked the law of supply & demand, increasing the supply is the only way to materially lower these prices.

So next election, look closely at the policies advocated by the candidates & vote for those who promise to remove the barriers to increased supply.






 

Atchooly, the cost of oil hasn't gone up so much as the value of the dollar is imploding big time.  Compare the price of oil to the price of gold, you'll see what I mean.  Same thing as what happened in the early 70's with Tricky Dick in the White House.

seems to me tricky dick was the last conservative to have a balanced budget.....and he was no crook.

Let's not forget where we are.  Sammy Kershaw had a song out in which he said he would not discuss, "...politics, religion and her..." Two of them apply well here.  Politics is for another place.

Thanks,
Rick/K5IAR

I don't want to be political, but Nixon a conservative? Not even close. His wage & price controls in 1971 were about as anti-free market as you can get (and of course they failed miserably as all such heavy handed schemes are destined to). Other big government ideas such as the EPA, and expansion of Social Security were signed into law by him.


Terry
W8EJO

Economics is science, not politics. Our government's economic policies are politically shaped however.

Terry
W8EJO

  "  but Nixon a conservative? Not even close.  "

Yes, you can see who his friends were.... .. klc

During the last 7 years the national debt went from a surplus to a record getting close to 10 trillion.    You can form your own opinions of why that has happened (at the risk of getting political)  but it is the direct cause of the devaluation of the dollar and the cost of imports.   Over this period of time the Euro went from about $0.80 to over $1.50.    If the dollar remained as valuable oil as it was 7 years ago, the cost of oil would be about $50 a barrel now.   

Hops for beer brewing are a bit scarce this year too, prices expected to rise. No doubt another gov't conspiracy waiting to be discovered. Sure, it's logical and explainable if you want to take the time to learn the facts and apply some common sense. Unfortunately it's a lot less common than it used to be.

I'm with Rick - let's not even go there. Life has plenty to piss and moan about without taking it political. Our personal choices and deeds, not our rants, are the only things that will make a difference.

 ::)

$3, $4, $5 a gallon, where does it end?? Not to date myself with this one, but..................... When I bought that orange car in my driveway that many of you have commented about, "high test" gas was somewhere between 27 and 29 cents a gallon around here depending on where you got it from. (and it was all full serv back then) :'( :'(

How many if you all remember telling the attendant "give me $5.00 or fill it"

                                          The Slab Bacon

The national debt has never been a "surplus". It can't be by definition.

The national debt = the cumulative excess of spending over tax receipts since our government began doing business. In inflation adjusted dollars (2000 dollars) it stands at 
about 7 trillion dollars. The debt was fairly constant from the end of WW II (slightly less than 2 trillion) until about 1980. It has grown bloated since then as our government has grown bloated with new agencies, cabinet level departments,and spending programs.

Terry
W8EJO

I remember gas being 32.9¢/gal. forever when I was younger, 35+ years ago. Paint was a lot cheaper then too, along with toothpaste. What's a gallon of toothpaste cost these days? When I bought some exterior latex for the house a few months back, it was right around $36/gal. I was always amazed that I could get a whole gallon of gas, something that would power the lawn mower or go kart for what seemed like forever, for a few cents.

Europe has been paying through the nose for years thanks in no small part to their taxes and other economic issues. We had it good for a long time thanks to our ability to discover and recover oil in our own territory.

Times have changed.

I think I was making about $1.50 an hour when gas hit 30 cents anound 40 years ago....I was pissed but still ran high test in the old 60 poncho

Three quarts of Champagne Velvet (Beer) for $1.00, two bucks of regular gasoline and still had enough left over for a couple of us to get into the drive in.  Of course, we had at least two more in the trunk!  Ahhh.. the good old days really were good!

Rick/K5IAR 

Regardless of who is responsible, the high gas prices to provide motivation for innovation to find a replacement for oil.  The whale oil producers of the 1850s saw their industry vanish almost overnight after the petroleum infrastructure became established, and became a cheaper source of energy.  The minute that coal gassification or liquification, or biodiesel, becomes cheaper than petroleum, all the junk going on in Iraq, Iran, and Venezuala will become irrelevant.

diesel, Hmmmm............... thats another interesting story of supply, demand, and butt pucker factor. Back in the days when gas was under .30 a gallon, diesel was around .15 and heating oil was somewhere around .07. (the only difference is the red dye and the road use tax) Fuel oil was always much much cheaper than gasoline motor fuels. Now with the advent of many diesel cars and small trucks it is now MORE than gasoline. Go figger.........................

                                                    The Slab Bacon

The average price of gas in Ottawa is  approximately $3.80 a gallon, or about $1.00 a litre.

It doesn't matter what currency, however.

I thought gas was expensive here in Aroostook County (Maine), which has just risen to $3.25 for regular. This pic was taken in San Francisco two days ago...

(http://i3.tinypic.com/6jlax43.jpg)

Ouch.

-Charles
ps in case it doesn't show, regular is $415.9

More importantly, the level of debt as a percentage of the GDP is far less than it was after WWII and through much of the 60's. It's amazing how misinformed the general public is on such important matters.

None of this has anything to do with the price of gas.

I freak when my credit card is above zero because I was taught to not live by the credit card.....and my Dad had a name for that life style. n rich. Modern thinking tells us we are ill informed, bull pucky

Yes, but look at where the vast majority get their info. NBC, CBS, CNN, NYT, etc etc.

Once upon a time the media reported the news. Now they think it's up to them to create it, editorialize it, and spoon-feed the finished product to the all-too-willing masses (Arnett and Rather come to mind). They probably wear black robes too!  ;D

Listening for that little voice in the wilderness....

I used to teach basic economics back in the early 70's. I don't think they've offered those courses in 25 years to high school kids.

Basic economics, Hmmm............................

Basic economics = I got it, you need it, bend over! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !  :o :o

Ruled by, no; heavily influenced by, absolutely.

Consider that a chunk of the crude oil price is based on the fear generated by the political instability in many oil producing countries.

An announcement by the U.S. govt. that we are lifting the ban on ANWAR, Gulf of Mexico and West coast drilling as well as fast tracking many new refineries will have a significant psychological impact (read downward price influence) as well as an ultimately increasing supplies in the oil & gasoline markets.

Yes but the fox is guarding the chicken coop and there are plenty of chickens to eat so why change the supply.

I just did a little research on the national debt thing.   According to the AP it just broke the record over 9 trillion.   However I found a chart listing the debt vs. GDP and it is about the same as it has been over the past few administrations and was at one time much higher.   It is interesting that one article stated that it took from George Washington to Ronald Reagan to get to 1 trillion.   I think it was the budget deficit that was low during the Clinton years, whatever that is.   Economics is like the weather, you can't predict it much in the future.

Heard on the news today that they're paying $8.00/gal. in the U.K.

So that's sposed to make us feel better right?

I'll care what the rest of the world pays when they step up to the plate against the bad people who would do us all harm.

The US dollar was worth $0.93 Canadian as of 12 noon to-day.

That calculates out to a Canadian dollar worth $1.075 in US dollars.

I have been following the daily foreign exchange rates as posted in the local newspaper  lately.  In recent days, the USD has been falling about 2¢ a day, relative to the Canadian.

Something you can do about the high price of gas besides politics is use less of it.

I've fallen in love with my wife's Prius.  I didn't expect much, a tinny little thing is what I thought.   It's way better than that.   It's pretty darned nice.  My fire breather stays in the garage most of the time now.   We drive the Prius when we go anywhere together, something we had no intention of doing.    I drive it when she doesn't need it.  It gets 48-50 MPG in mixed driving, tank after tank.

It's no substitute for an F-250 but it is a mighty fine substitute for the family sedan.

The budget deficit is the annual excess of US govt expenditures over tax receipts.

So one year's budget deficit gets added to each preceding years deficit & the accumulated total since the inception of the country = the national debt.

States do not have this problem since state constitutions require a balanced budget by law. Only the fed govt budgets expenditures in excess of tax receipts (reminds me of my ex-wife). 

Conservation is a great idea. I bought a used GEO Metro - about 45 MPG.
The safety factor is a bit worrisome, however. I think I'm about 5 x more likely to die in a crash then when I'm driving my Ford f-250.

I read somewhere that congress, trough it's establishment of CAFE standards, has caused an additional 3000 (+/-) deaths annually since the CAFE standards were established in the mid 70's. That's bout 100,000 additional highway deaths due to CAFE. We have a society that seems to value fuel economy over human life.

Let's see we piss off everyone who supplies crude then act stupid when the price doubles....da
Al Gore wound never drive a geo.

Yep,--I remember well also Frank,--but am also dating myself,--that era of "cheap gas" is well over
with, just like "cheap BA`s", also a thing of the past.

As far as this "gas crisis",--I am sure many on this board remember the long gas lines of the mid 70`s
when gas just about doubled back then, from 30 cents to 60 cents a gallon, and most people
started burning wood as an alternative to oil.(myself included)

Where were the politicians back then?--here we are over 30 years later(after both Republican and
Democrats) holding office, and we are still dependent on foreign oil.--Gee I wonder why?
So much for expecting the government to "solve" the energy problem.

                                                   73, K1MVP
                                                      
                                    
    

Rene,
        I remember the "gas lines" all too well!! What a pain in the ass!!
During the first one my poor mother caught hell. We would send her up to wait in line, then the OM and I would siphon the gas from her car to get back and forth to work and she would go back up to set in line.

The second time it happened, I was working as the mechanic in a local gas station near my home. Because I was this big strapping son of a bitch, I was always asked to go out and put the "last car" sign on whatever car I decided would be the last car of the day. This caused me to fall into some very interesting situations. This went from the ridiculous to the sublime, including many fist fights and twice having a gun pointed at me.

I still, and will always feel that those "gas shortages" were just created by the oil companies to increase profits & "flex their muscle".

If you remember, back in the 70s there were "shortages" of many consumer items from time to time. People were trying to be prepared by hoarding everthing from sugar to toilet paper. My mother still has about 100# of sugar in her basement pantry from back then. It is now harder than concrete!! All in the name of driving prices up.

Just start a rumor that there was gonna be a shortage (by the news media) and it would happen just from everyone trying to get all of that item that they could get, just so they would not have to be without it. And naturally as the shelves emptied out the replacement merchandise would be considerably higher priced.

This kind of crap reduces us to being on the same level as a "third world" country, and makes a "black market" ecomomy very profitable.
It disgusts me!!

                                                  The Slab Bacon

Here is another thought to ponder with this as well. Those of us that were in the working world 30+ years ago, look at your paycheck.
Compare it to a paycheck from 30+ years ago!  It is CONSIDERABLY larger than the one from years ago. Now look at the cost for consumer goods then and now. What you can buy for each hour worked is probably close to the same. Salarys have increased 10 fold and so has gas prices (and other stuff as well). Americans are also now spending way beyond their means due to the ease and availability of credit and the imfamous plastic money.

Just stop and think about it for a minute or two, Where will it all end???? Its kinda scarey, we have an entire economy (all the way down to the individual person) based on money that we dont have!!
It has got to come crashing in on us sooner or later. It scares the hell out of me!

                                                 The Slab Bacon

A fairly well known economist was recently quoted in the media as stating, "no economy has ever devalued itself to prosperity". With the recent continuing decline of the value of the U.S. dollar, this is a scary thought.

73,

Bruce

you noticed that Bruce......The poor farmers learned the hard way when the value of their land was pumped up then they borrowed on the new value....That put a lot of them out of business.
Look at homes the value has been pushed so high nobody can afford to buy a house.

I've noticed that my OM was able to buy a home, drive Buicks, ( one Pontiac) have 4 wonderful children, and his wife stayed home. Oh yeah, he didn't finish hi skool because of the depresion; he went to work.  He retired in '78.....   Nowdays, the XYL and OM work to pay for the 2.4 utes and the nikes,  computers, ipods, cell phone, multiple tv's w/ dvd  etc......  klc       

yea but today there are so many people in China with good factory jobs. Isn't that nice.

Hi Frank,

Actually, I was referring to the value (or devaluation) of the dollar, although your point is correct as well.

The talking heads in the media have largely refrained (as has Mr. Bernanke) from using the "R-word" (as in recession). However, if you talk to the guys who work for the large brokerage houses, such as Merrill-Lynch, etc., they are much more forthcoming with their impression that a recession in the U.S. is a very real probability in early Q2-08. It is interesting to note that whenever the U.S. housing market goes into a recession, which is plainly the case currently, there is a 97% probability of the overall U.S. economy going into a recession. And remember that nearly 70% of U.S. GDP is driven by consumer spending. The consumer always feels less wealthy (and spends less into the economy) when the value of his most significant asset, i.e. his home, sees a decrease in value.

Consumer disposable income is already decreasing, as shown by the poor showing of October retail sales.

I say fasten your seatbelts for this one; it may be a rough ride. I'm not ready to cash everything out yet and buy canned goods and a shotgun. However, I do think that scenario is still somewhat plausible, but much further downstream.

73,

Bruce

How can that be?   Cars are way bigger than they were in the 70's or 80's.  Is the thinking that without the CAFE standards they would be bigger still?  The Prius is a bigger, safer car than a GEO but still no match for an F-250 in an accident.

The price of biodiesel fuel made from old fast food restaurant grease and/or soy oil has remained the same for at least 6 months, near $3/gallon.

If I keep my foot out of it, I get over 20 MPG on the stuff in a 7,700# pickup truck and always have- for the last 98,000 miles.

If I could afford one, I'd buy a 50 MPG VW TDI in a microsecond.

Only problem is that biodiesel exhaust smells like a Chinese restaurant.

Woody Harrelson and Willie Nelson promote biodiesel made from hemp seed oil.
I bet their exhaust smells *real* good. :o

http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel/retailfuelingsites/

Willie blends a little reefer smoke in to make it smell better.

Time to clean the crooks out of the beltway...less than a year hang in there. A new crook is always better than one who knows the ropes.

Waste cooking grease can definately be some nasty, raunchy smellin stuff. especially if it has ben sitting out in the heat for a while. :o :o

but if you live somewhere in a warmer climate area, and you can get used oil type frying shortening, you can say screw all of the biodiesel crap and use it directly in a diesel engine!!
You just better have good fuel filters to strain out the flour crumbs. That makes it totally free and it dont get no better than that!!

                                                                   The Slab Bacon

I just read a large oil deposit was found off So. America.....let's see who can we tick off now. bobble head on her way to impose our  way of thinking.

Fun thread but way too long waiting for the message box 'till I can get in a few remarks.  Maybe we ought to start it up fresh.

Anyhoo... I'll describe life in absolutes, not ephemeral gas prices which mostly reflect inflation anyway.
Tried to stay out (yeah, right Rick) but for those of us able to remember... i.e. most of us here;

1. Ur rig used to come via REA.  yeah, on the railroad. You went down to the terminal to pick it up if you lived very far out.  Lucky if you got a ride.  For that matter, lucky if you had a few bucks for the rig.

2. We used to hitch rides everwhere; those having cars were fortunated indeed.  Prosperous families had a car. Really prosperous ones had one for the wife (who stayed home and gave you hell for having a hot soldering gun.) :O )

3. Most of our towns had factories right in the middle of town ; most walked to work; remember shifts or "towers" if you worked in the patch?  Coal mines here in West Virginia - whole other stories of sacrifice for family there.

4. There were no interstates or beltways.  Cities had defined centers with "the main line" for any suburbs, e.g. Philadelphia defined by railroads or if lucky a 4 lane highway a few miles out in the country.

5. You wanted to travel city to city you took the train. Happy relatives greeted you on arrival... Everybody was so excited and chattered all the way to the Thanksgiving feast.

Now in a land of plenty, three cars/trucks per family not counting the kids cars, fabulous roads everywhere, more rigs than the average ham can count, all we do is bitch, bitch, bitch.
We've gotta' get back the ol' "can do."   Take care of our less fortunate neighbors, even offer a ride now an then.  See if others are really inconvienced by riding together or won't trade the super convience of having their own wheels .....  just like to bitch as they hop in their SuckVee, run to the store five miles away for a six pack so they won't miss Tech on HDTV.   Yeah, life in a country that's been "Tyson Cornered" for mile after mile.. .   Oops, sorry, almost started a whole new set of bitches. 

Ok, so there are some of us that still live in neighborhoods... have trouble meeting monthly bills, etc., but guess where you are?
Yeah, typing away on your $3000 computer with communications unheard of a few years ago.
.... restoring 57 chevy's or old horizontal gas engines or even building up a dream AM rig. 

Don't bitch too long or life's "class E" will blow by you faster than you can think. 

I was driving by my egg plant friend's Dad's house today and remember bugging my dad for a ride across town because it was a bit out of range for the bike.
Then it hit me all my old pals and I were enjoying first grade 50 years ago this fall.
and we still act the same.

the last few posts hit close to my heart!! We're old enough to remember the way it used to be. And still young enough to wish it was back!! Life was so much simpler back then!! It was a beautiful thing. Many times I have thought that I would love to be able to give up some of today's modern conveniences for life the way it used to be. Our parents (and ourselves) survived well for many years without computers, cellphones, shopping malls, fast food, etc!!

Have they made the quality of life better, or have they actually made it worse??

                                               The Slab Bacon

One's happiness is directly proportional to one's independence and control over one's life.

The last 50 years have all been about surrendering our liberties and independence.

- Control of employment to big business.
- Control of manufacturing jobs to overseas companies.
- Control of personal finances to the government.
- Control of healthcare to big business/trial lawyers and the insurance mafia.
- Control of personal liberties and property rights to the black robed gangsters.
(This includes the establishment of the State as a religion, as well as so called "hate crimes".)

Don't get me wrong, both sides of the aisle have been complicit in this subversion.

Fritz Lang's Metropolis seems more and more accurate every day.
What year did he set it in, 2026, heck, he might have been 10 years early.

Of course, previous generations have said the same thing.

Thanks for enlightening us.  I'm sure personal liberties were at an all time high in the late 1950's.  I thought people's dissatisfaction with modern life was just from working too hard and worrying about escalating energy costs.  Are you saying that the key to happiness is found in one's relationship with big business, government, and the courts?. . .this doesn't ring true to me.   

...Unless one happened to be born into an ethnic or religious minority.

The perception is (true or not, the perception is what counts) that the American middle class -who has made this nation great and stabilized our society- is taking it on the chin from every direction. This is not a good thing.

On top of that, I'm getting old and crabby.

LOL. If you weren't ethnically German, you were born into an ethnic minority. And everyone knows the Germans ruled this country in the 50's. Not. ;D

Isn't that what the 60's movement was supposed to be all about, a rebellion against the  repressive society that existed in the 50's?

I don't recall political pressure to curtail personal liberties, at least for WASPS, once the McCarthy era had passed, but it was a time of extreme conformity.  It wasn't so much the government, but social pressure that made people conform.  But that was also the time the civil rights movement was brewing in full swing.  I  remember the "COLORED IN REAR" signs on city buses and the "white/colored" water fountains at the local FW Woolworths'.  As a rebellious kid, I used to get a great kick out of making it a point to use the "Colored" one.

That's also the same era when I used to get together with a couple of friends and go door to door after school and ask people for any old radios they might want to get rid of.  It's amazing the number of radios I acquired that way, many from the 1930's.  I just wish I had kept some of them instead of parting them all out. Some of those sets would be real collectors items to-day.

We had this speech pretty well polished and memorised about being members of a fictitious high school amateur radio club, and that every member was required to have a project, and that we needed old radios to get parts for our project, so we were wondering if they had any old radios they might be willing to give away.  Very rarely was anyone rude to us, and we always showed genuine appreciation whenever someone did give us a radio.

A myth.

Truth be told, the fact that average folks are going to have about $1500 less buckos to spend this winter after buying heating oil and gas, makes me worry that consumer spending is going to tank.  ED

Yep, mostly bored kids from white middle class families raised in the 50's of peace and plenty. Vapid mostly.

I feel their pain BG&E increased rates by 50% this year and are talking about another bump of 30% soon (in a few months).  "Heat or eat" is a very real dilemma for many Maryland families with these rapid rate increases (nevermind the fact that their CEO makes over 500K).  Thank goodness the winter has been mild this year.  It was awfully nice of O'Malley to make good on his promise of holding the electric/gas price hikes at bay....  My apologies to any O'Malley fans but that man has hit me right where it hurts...my wallett.