The AM Forum

Down three games to one, the Sox win three straight and the AL Championship.  World Series here we come.

Smokin  Rich!!!

Colorado watch OUT!

Brent

No one will want to watch. The Yankees aren't involved.

Oh gawd,
here we go....groan

Steve, you're correct.

Sounds like I won't be missing any quality shack time watching the W.S.
Ah another year not watching a single baseball game. all those missed naps

Congrats to ur team Rich !!
It was painful to watch the total collapse of the Tribe's pitching staff and offense. I'll bet being outscored 30-5 in the last 3 games was quite a learning experience for our kids.

But we'll be back and do it all again.

Here's hoping things go well for our AL team in the series.
Kinda like "keep it in the family" !! (besides, Manny and Coco were trained in Cleveland)

As a born & bred Clevelander & an Indians fan since 1954, it was painful to watch. The ALCS proved we still have a few areas where we need to improve in order to compete with the big $ teams.

Red Sox are now the best team money can buy.


Rank  Team       2007 Payroll        2006 Payroll 
1   Yankees    $195,229,045    $198,662,180
2   Red Sox    $143,526,214    $120,100,524
23   Indians    $61,673,267    $56,795,867
25   Rockies    $54,424,000    $41,133,000

that is my reason for almost no interest in baseball.

That comes with the experience Terry. They've been there and it really showed.
Our Kids just buckled under the pressure. I really don't think the money has much to do with it. It just follows..... ya gotta pay the experienced or they walk. Why do you think Manny plays for them an not us anymore?

The money does matter, big time. Just look at the at Red Sox lineup, especially the guys that can really get it done:

Beckett  & Lowell from the Marlins - big bucks.
Manny of course from the tribe bigger bucks
Schilling big bucks - Arizona I think
Daisuke -  ridiculous bucks from Japan
None of these guys came up through the Red Sox Farm system.

The "small market" teams like the tribe cannot compete for these type of players.

Baseball is in dire need of a salary cap (ala, the NFL or NBA) or it will be a boring annual coronation of the Yankees, Red Sox, Yankees, blah, blah.....

Sorry Terry..... having played at the Semi-pro level .... I respectfully disagree.

The very fact that the Tribe was there in the end PROVES you don't need the most money to win. In fact, the 1995 Tribe was midway up the salary ladder but made it to the fall classic. The 1997 Tribe was no wheres near the "big money" and was beaten by a less expensive team in game 7.

The average age of the Soxs is what.... 34 ?? The Tribe....27. Playoff experience was virtually non-existant with the Tribe. The pressure at these levels is un-imaginable.

I'm disappointed they collapsed like that but the experience they gained for that level of play can only improve them for the future.

Bottom line; It wasn't so much the money as it was the experience.

In two weeks, it won't matter.

Mbwahahahaha!

It didn't matter last week Bill  ;D

Are you suggesting a Colorado Sweep of the Red Sox ??

I totally agree with you that you experience is paramount. Sizemore, Hafner, et al were grabbing the bat a little too tight & CC & Fausto were gripping the ball a little too tight  & our 3rd base coach, well he just flat lined under pressure.

The problem with the system in MLB however is that as soon as your good young players accumulate the much needed experience, they get bought up by the big $ teams. There are endless examples of this as you know.

CC's contract will be up at the end of 08' & Cleveland will probably lose him to the Yankees or Red Sox because they won't be able to compete in the bidding war. Where will the tribe be without his 19 wins - second division that's where. Where will the Yankees or Red Sox be with him - at the top as usual.   

MLB's system is broken. The league needs to understand  (as the NFL & NBA understand) that their ultimate product is a competitive league not just a few well positioned teams within the league.

I'm saying the Rox swept BOTH the Snakes and Philly in the playoffs.
That doesn't happen by accident.
You easties don't know much about them because of the media.

OK, ERA of Colorado pitchers has been a stellar 2.0.
MVP candidate Matt Holliday with a league-leading .340 batting avg with 36 homers and 135 RBIs. Three other unknowns with at least 110 RBIs each. Four players with 24 or more homers and six players who scored 80 or more runs.

Jus' stating the facts.

From a sportswriter:

• The Rockies have a .636 winning percentage in Interleague Play over the last two years, and that was before this team really caught fire.

• The Rockies have more speed and are better defensively than Boston, and that will be the difference in what should be a close series.

• Unbeaten in October and with just one loss since mid-September, do you really think this team is going to lose four times in one week?

You nailed it. It's not that lower payroll teams can't compete for a season or so. There are many examples over the past few years (Rockies, Diamondbacks, Marlins, etc). The problem is they can't compete over a longer term because they can't keep the young talent they developed. Just think how good the Seattle Mariners would have been if they could have kept Ken Griffey, Alex Rodriguez and Randy Johnson!

That's the free enterprise system, if I can get a lot more money working somewhere else I'd probably go for it, these players are the same and you can't change it unless there are rule changes which would probably be a good idea. The experienced players go where the money is, but big money doesn't necessarily mean success, look at Daisuke, he hasn't been very good this year, has little experience here in the U.S. big leagues, which shows that experience probably has more to do with success than money.

Indeed. I don't blame the players. How many of us can say we turned down a job that offered WAY more than we were currently making?

If it was all based on money, the Yankees would win every year. Thank goodness they don't. Their fans are already insufferable. ;D

Yeah, they're suffering this year ;D

Let 'em suffer. :'(

Speaking of suffering fans....
man those poor Oriole's this year....gawdawful.

;D

(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/5/5d/1908_Red_Sox_Logo.gif)

 Sox in 6!  It is gonna happen!!!!!!!

Yay! The Red Sox just won game 1!11!!

Who is an Orioles fan?

Dude..... whatareyasmokin' ?

First pitch is TONITE ot 8:25 pm.   ;D ;D

Bad example.

The only money that changed hands in that deal was for Beckett. In order to get Beckett, we had to take Lowell, whom all of baseball had written off as worn-out, past his prime, liability, please take him off our hands if you want our star pitcher.

For Mike Lowell, the Sox essentially paid zero, and got a huge return on that investment.

That's the real money game in baseball: it's not how much money you have to spend, it's how you spend it.


Nobody on that list did, but that's not the whole roster, and only a few of the real play-makers. Jacoby Ellsbury is a great example of the Red Sox farm system doing the right thing, and not the only example.

How many other teams have pulled guys up from the minors to pitch a no-hitter in their major-league debut?

Don't forget, the Red Sox current owners bought the team in '04. It takes years to work a kid through the minors and get him ready for prime time. Under previous ownership, the farm system was not being fed and watered properly, so the prospects were few. That is changing quickly enough.

Just as an amusing antectdote, Mike Lowell came up through the Yankees' farm system :)


So, when Cleveland obliterated New York in the ALDS, that was because Steinbrenner was delinquent on payments that week? What about their loss to the Marlins (the freakin' Marlins, fer peetsake) in their World Series bout a few years back? Did money cause the Yanks to fold like lawn chairs?

Money can buy you all the headline players you want, but it can't make them into a team, it can't make them execute the plays correctly, it can't make them ten years younger, and so on. Money can buy the talent, it cannot buy the outcome.

Baseball doesn't have a salary cap, but it does have the luxury tax structure. It's a sort of "soft cap", and it doesn't stop King George blowing his coin on every washed-up name-value-only player he can, and look where that got him.

Besides, just try and get the idea of a salary cap past the union and see how far out of town you make it.

By the way, I'm glad to see that Sox victories are simply going to be assumed from this point forward. Just a few years ago, we were the ones on the bottom, looking up.

After the almost-century-long drought we had, a few World Series championships coming to Boston won't kill the rest of you (though we much appreciate the resentment :) )

No matter how the money is regulated, no matter who plays on what team, no matter how level the salaries: there can only be one victor.

May the best team win!  ;)

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

LOL!! You must know Bill, that even when that happens, there will be whining and excuses galore. The Red Sox are the only Boston team I don't like. I'm a Yankmee fan (credit to HUZ for the name), but would love to see the Rockies win their first. Indiains would've been nice to see in there, too.

Very well stated Thom.
My original assessment stands.
It was the experience that won it for Boston. (or lack of it on our part in Cleveland)
That type of pressure can be crushing for a young team. After the series with the ever present Yankees the Tribe was all but used up. They got a boost at home from the crowd but it just wasn't enough.

Again, congrats to the Sox. When it came to crunch time..... they did !!

Nice cherry pick and incomplete analysis. So the Marlins beat the Yankmees. So did the Diamondback. Within a year or two BOTH of those teams were dismantled because the team could not pay to keep their BIG name players (you know losers like Beckett and Shilling. Who do they play for now? Or Randy Johnson who went to the Yankmees.)

You are missing the argument. It's not that smaller market teams can't compete with big market teams like the Yankmees and Red Sucks, it's that they can't do it over any significant period of time. Let's talk about Cleveland. They had a very good team in the mid and late 90's. But nearly all their players left for big bucks elsewhere. Guys like Albert Belle, Jim Thome, Roberto Alomar, and Manny Ramirez (oh that's right he now plays for the Red Sucks). These guys were at or near the top at their positions. Do you think the Indians may have vied for a few more World Series in the lat 90's and early 2000's if these guys would have stayed? But they left and Cleveland had a relatively poor team until the last few years, a long period of rebuilding. Cleveland was lucky to keep those guys as long as they did because the general manager was smart and signed them to longer term contracts before they became big stars. We’ll see how long their current crop of rising stars stays.

How many World Series do you think the Yankees would have won recently if their young talent like Derick Jeter, Bernie Williams, Mariano Rivera and Andy Petite left for other teams in say 1998? My guess is zero.

That was 2001, not long after 9/11. Some say it was related to that, yet the Yanks had no problem getting to the Series to start with. My theory is the Marlins just beat 'em.

But you can always pick out the Red Sox fans by the way they marginalize any win the Yankmees have, while over-inflating their meager winnings to seem as if they've conquered the entire planet, solar system, and porn industry too! The 2004 ring ceremony comes to mind. ;) 

Eh? You won the World Series? First time in how many years decades?

George is handing the reins to his sons though, so who knows what the future holds for NY. Boston spends big bucks to 'buy a team', the very thing they've criticized NY for over the decades. With a rivalry record of 26-6 in favor of NY, Boston is going to have to start winning every series pretty soon or we'll never see that record beat in our lifetimes. 

I agree with Steve and whoever else said that keeping your talent is at least as important to the end result as building it. 

Huh?

Of everything I just wrote, you focus on that one paragraph as an "incomplete analysis" (I wasn't offering an analysis, complete or otherwise), and I'm the one cherry-picking?


Maybe I'm missing your argument, Steve; but I've got my argument down pretty good. I don't recall arguing with you, either, but that's okay, I'm flexible. :)


"But they left"... as though that's all that happened.

Like a wise man once said to me, nice cherry pick.

What did Cleveland get in return for Manny Ramirez? Do you remember? I do. What did Cleveland do with what they got in return for Manny? How much of that is money, and how much of that is management of resources? You make it sound as if money is the only resource in baseball. A player is more than the sum of his paycheck.


You're making my point.


It depends on what the Yankees got in return, and more importantly what they did with what they got in return. That's management, not money.

I stand by my initial point: money alone doesn't win championships. It takes talent: on the field, in the dugout, and in the front office. Two out of three on that list isn't enough, no matter how much money you throw at the problem.

--Thom
Kilimanjaro Africa One Zulu Goat Cheese

You can always pick out the reflex Sox haters, too. They're the ones that marginalize any win the Red Sox have, like jilted lovers.


...as if by example.


I sort of hinted at that, Todd, but it doesn't stop people from coming off like the Sox going to the series is something that happens every year, in responses to what I wrote.

Like I said, there seem to be quite a few jilted lovers in this crowd.


As do I, but money alone doesn't accomplish that.

--Thom
Kerolene Apparatus One Zooming Golf Cart

In an effort to avoid a never ending line-by-line discussion, let me boil it down to this. I think we are basically in agreement. Where we seem to differ is on what management actually means and what it means over the long term.

No Sox hater here. Quite frankly, I like seeing the Sox do well. They are a much more interesting team (a bunch of interesting characters) than most others in baseball.

Since you pulled the post down as I was responding to it, I suppose we'll agree to differ where we do.

Besides, we can have this conversation over the air some day and reach a consensus much, much quicker.

May the best team win.

--Thom
Kilowatt Amplifier One Zero Grid Current

Whoa big fella. I didn't score anything. I joined in on a discussion (a discussion I had already been involved with) on a discussion forum. That's what we're here for. If you choose to view it as a fight and a win situation, that's your problem. I don't, because I don't have a fight with you. It's baseball we're talking about, not something really important like ham radio. :D

Maybe we'll have to add baseball to the list of banned topics.




The QSO area is for any subject except political and religious posts (and baseball).
 

what Todd said.
Is there a baseball game tonight....I watched Wired Science on pbs very interesting show.

 Marlins and D-Backs lack a deep loyal fan base. Even after fairly recent WS wins, they cant fill their parks. Red Sox have a "nation". They seem to be everywhere. Camden Yards becomes Fenway South. Interleague  play with San Diego, the place sounds like Fenway in July. Even The Sox farm teams (Portland & Pawtucket)  games get sold out often. I dunno. It's just crazy and i love it. Like anything else in life this too will fade, but Im just glad to see it happening now.  :) Go Go Sox!

Here's where it gets interesting. Sox win 13 to 1, scoring 7 in the 5th inning alone.

Most fans would get cocky at this point, but Colorado was playing after 8 days rest. After that kind of pounding, I wouldn't be at all suprised to see Colorado galvanized for a comeback.

I predicted at least six games to decide the series, and even after game one's lopsided outcome, I'm holding out for a long series.

Steve:

We both thought better of it and backed down our last posts for good reason, so let's leave them down. I saw what you wrote, you saw what I wrote, but none of that's in public sight anymore. We can debate it on the air someday and spare these guys.

Ed:

It's hard to tell what brought on the nationwide Sox mania. Some places make sense: Baltimore's close enough to Boston that we can all drive down there and take the place over, Florida is God's Waiting Room, so plenty of New England retirees down there catching pre-season and D-Rays games.

On the other hand, you get a large contingent of Red Sox fans in places that just don't have a logical reason for them. Sure, every city has it's Boston transplants, but not that many. It may well be something as simple as the populace getting tired of the Yankees taking it year after year, and everyone knows the Yankees haven't really been beaten until they lose to the Sox.

If that's really what's behind the growth of Sox Nation, then some other team could do a similar thing if they can get their hands on Joe Torre. The general consensus I get from most baseball fans I talk to is that Joe Torre was mistreated for years, and handed the ultimate disrespect at the end (with which I agree wholeheartedly).

A whole lot of people would love to see Joe Torre come back with another team and stick it to the Steinbrenner Administration. That could be just enough impetus to start selling more seats, which in turn gives the team more capital, which in turn gives the team more signing power, and the ball would slowly start to roll in their favor. A few guys might even take a modest one-year contract to play for Torre in a situation like that.

Time will tell.

It's going to be a great series, and very interesting off-season.

--Thom
Killer Album One Zappa's Greatest Compositions

My experience may partially explain this phenomena.
As a die-hard Indians fan since 1954, I can tell you that my second favorite AL team is whoever plays & beats the Yankees. So I was pulling hard for the Red Sox in 2004 when they came from behind & whipped the Bronx boys. I'm sure this sentiment was/is shared by millions of others out in fly over country as the Yankees have always been the most hated franchise. Problem is the Red Sox have adopted the Yankee model & are quickly becoming the new Yankees.

 :o

(cough, cough, splutter, cough...)

Bite your tongue!  :)

The "Yankee model", as I see it, is to spend huge amounts of money on players who bring rock-star name (and advertising) value to the team, and pray they live up to it. The Sox may be spending almost-as-huge amounts of money, but their spending criteria are very different from the Yankees.

The current ownership and management got away from buying up players for the sole purpose of depriving the Yankees of them, but the Yankees still do that. The Yanks' farm system is a wreck, because it's still being managed the way the Red Sox farm system once was.

The Red Sox' previous owners were more focused on competing with George Steinbrenner, their current owners are more focused on owning a winning team. That started in 2004, and carries over to today.

If the Red Sox really are becoming the next Yankees, it's because they've stopped doing things the Yankee Way. They may have almost as much money, but that by itself isn't the reason the Sox are winning.

At any rate, I'm with you insofar as I'll always root for the American League team in the World Series, as long as it isn't the Yankees!  ;D

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Conductor

You mean like Manny, Beckett, Schilling & (talk about publicity & fanfare) Daisuke.

Nope... those guys were bought for their talent, and they brought it with them. Unlike the Yankee's headliners, the Sox headliners have lived up to the hype.

I was thinking more along the lines of Roger Clemens. What a waste that was! Don't forget Alex Rodriguez. Sure, the guys a good ball player, but not for the money he's being paid. He was bought for his name, the streak he went on this year was a fluke. I'll never forget him swatting the ball out of our first baseman's hand a few years back. What a fraud. Every team he ever left went on to greatness the following year. Many of the top-dollar vets the Yanks are holding on to are getting too old to play like they played 9 years ago, but they're still there, mostly out of sentiment.

So they've got three expensive guys who can play, but they've got just as many guys dirt-cheap who can play equally well: Ortiz, Lowell, and Ellsbury are at the top of that list.

They are two very different teams. That's why one is playing baseball tonight, and the other is watching baseball tonight.

You're more than welcome to root for the Rockies, if it'll make you feel better.

--Thom
Killer Aircraft One Zeppelin Goes Crash

Well, I'll tell you, the Sox played a great game tonight. They proved they got what it takes to win. Their pitching was excellent, especially the two relievers. The Japanese reliever (you can tell I'm a fair weather fan) was really good. I like that guy. The worst hype or what ever you want to call it is calling the 20 million dollar Japanese pitcher Dice K like he's some kind of Japanese rapper or something. He'd probably be embarrassed if he knew how stupid it sounds. 

His name is "Daisuke Matsuzaka", and the "u" in "Daisuke" is practially silent, so it comes out sounding like "Dice K". Some people write it that way, but that's only because this is America, and people use their rights and liberties as an excuse to be functionally illiterate and ignorant.

The pronunciation is correct, however.

If you think that's hype, you should see how ga-ga the Japanese press goes over him. He's bigger over there than any rapper over here.

--Thom
Kilimanjaro Africa One Zulu Goat Cheese

The Sox are definitely emulating the Yankees - spend, spend, spend. Unlilke the Yankees, they haven't won as much. If they win this year, they can claim success. If they win 4 series in 5 years, they can put an NY on their hats! :o

Your last comment could only be made with the advantage of 20-20 hindsight. At the time these players were aquired the Red Sox hoped & prayed they would produce for them as they had produced in the past. As you know there are no guarantees, particularly with pitchers & their various & sundry arm ailments. Daisuke may have been the biggest risk in the history of MLB.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, guys.

Blaming it all on the money is the easy way out. I expected better than that out of both of you, but trying to discuss this objectively with either of you has been like trying to teach a card trick to a dog.

Talent doesn't enter into it. Management doesn't enter into it. Hell, the umpires don't even enter into it. Nope, just the money, nothing else. Every ill that ever befell baseball is the fault of the Red Sox for finally having some money to spend.

You're right, just because you're you; I'm wrong, just because I'm me.

Satisfied? I hope so, because this conversation is over.

--Thom
Keep Arguing One Zealot's Gold Coin

Not even faith-based baseball?

http://sport.independent.co.uk/general/article3033367.ece

Thom, it's hard to believe you're looking at this objectively with the comparisons you make. Like, the Yankees didn't lose to the freakin Marlins! (for peetsake), they "folded like lawn chairs". IIRC, the Yankees still beat out every other team in their league that year for he right to play in the championship - including the Red Sox.

Or: the Yankees spend money, the Red Sox "buy Talent". Suddenly the Red Sox are doing pretty much exactly what the Yankees did successfully for decades, yet it's different somehow. Very objective.

Same thing about either team buying players just to keep the other team from getting them. Red Sox, no more. Yankees, still doing it. What about Ruth, Clemens, and so many others? Did the Yankees force their sale somehow? Considering the prices paid these days, I'd sure like to see some proof of that beyond opinion, if you choose to state it so certainly.

'Hey George, let's go spend 50 mil on players we don't really want or need, just so Boston can't have 'em'.  ;)



No differently than the many more times the shoe was on the other foot and the Red Sox, for 86 years, were doing the watching.

I was actually relieved, even a bit glad they finally won in 2004. Like any team. the Red Sox have many, many more good fans than idiots like the one who threw his drink in Sheffield's face while he was making a play for the ball a couple years back. I really thought that winning the series would relax everyone.

Then they pulled the stunt with the rings, waiting until they played the Yankees to have the award ceremony - like they were gonna show them a thing or two! But it did more or less fit with the 'wait 'til next year' whinge, and the constant marginalizing of the Yankee's far superior record. Love 'em or hate 'em, you can't deny history. Unless you're a Red Sox fan, perhaps?

So in my experience, the Red Sox 'haters' are more along the lines of folks getting some satisfaction from seeing the loudmouth/crybaby/whiner types get theirs. In reality, the Sox are just another team playing the All-American pastime and trying to come out on top. The difference seems to be, when they do win it's soooo much better than anything any other team has ever done. Pay no attention to the historical record, recent or otherwise.  ::)

That's the year hell froze over.  If the Sox win again this year, maybe the inmates will at least enjoy having a cool front pass through.

In response to the assertion that money alone buys the championship, yes, I did say that. Go back and read it again.


...and somehow all that money lost to all that poverty. Go back and read what I was responding to. Nevermind, easier to take it out of context.


Go back and read it again. What I said was the Yankees bought based on ticket sales, the Red Sox bought based on talent.

Did they spend some money? Yes. Shame on them! How un-american!


Go back and read it again. Those were different owners, Todd. My point was that the current ownership isn't pulling that crap anymore, your rebuttal is to pull up stuff that had nothing to do with the current ownership in response to an out-of-context mis-quote.


Scoff all you want, it has happened.


That's the whole point, Todd.

After all that, somehow the Red Sox merely bought their way into the World Series, and did nothing to earn it? Please.


Nice try, Todd, but that was their first home game. When did you want them to have the ring ceremony? August?

No "stunt" there, Todd. You can't deny history.


Name one time I marginalized the Yankees' record. Just one.


Appearently not, Todd. There seems to be a lot of that going around.


Victory is much sweeter for Boston because of history! Don't you get it? Why is it good for every team to celebrate making it to the World Series except for the Boston Red Sox? Why is it when the Yankees make the world series, they're a great team, but when the Red Sox make it to the world series, they just bought their way in?

You call that objective?

Do you have a point to any of this, or are you just trying to make yourself feel better by assuming some moral high ground?

No matter what anyone says to you guys, the response is that the Red Sox got where they are simply by spending money. If beleiving that is what it takes for you to feel good about yourself, fine.

I don't need to cast aspersions on others to make myself feel good, so I'm not going to keep beating this horse. You guys enjoy your little spite-fest, I'll be enjoying baseball.

Sheesh...

--Thom
...whatever.

Spend, spend and spend, until you buy a championship. This is what baseball has become. No wonder the NFL is kicking its butt.

I'd rather spend my money and time with other pursuits, including radio. My wife watches the  games, and she is rooting for the Sox because she and her whole family are from the Boston area.  I stop by occasionally and watch a few minutes at a time, but it would be tedious for me to sit in front of the tube for hours and watch the entire game.

I'm perfectly happy just to look at the newspaper the next morning to see who won.

Baseball is a better "radio" game than a "TV" game anyway.  When I was a kid I used to listen to the games over AFRS on shortwave.  That was back when they had the legendary announcers like Red Barber and Mel Allen.They delayed the broadcast for a couple of hours, and by that time they had edited out the commercials and long periods of dead air, and condensed the play-by-play to a two-hour time block.

I think I could still can get more into a BB game by listening over the radio than by watching on TV, but 90% of a radio game lies in the skill and personality of the announcers.  But I have not heard a play-by-play over the  radio in years.  I'm not even sure they still do it.

Exactly. And they lost a large chunk of fans with their little strike a few years back, which took them years and steroid-assisted records to get back to this level of interest.

And look at how much College football has risen in the last decade or so. People really do enjoy a good match up without all the crap.

Thom, my point is merely this: you/other Sox fans praise Boston for doing exactly what you poo-poo the Yankees for: doing what they need to in order to win. But you do it in a way that clearly shows it's not the method, it's how you can spin it to favor your team/viewpoint/etc. Perhaps if you'd added the Red Sox historical penchant for choking in the latter half of the season in there somewhere with the 'lawn chair' and other analogies, it would've seemed more objective and balanced?  :)

Regardless, it's still a game, albeit a pricey one between salaries, TV deals, and getting your mug on the Wheaties box. At the end of the series, some fans will be elated, others will feel cheated or let down, and they'll do it all again next year.

I agree with you Don, baseball on TV sux. It's better on radio and even better at the park, complete with the smell of the grass, freshly cooked popcorn and some faint cigar smoke!

Just remember fan is just short for fanatic.

Steve, At least football is exciting every couple minutes. I can't remember the last full baseball game I watched. Then there is travel ball.
Compare soccer to baseball is like comparing drag racing to checkers.

Thom... 03 lose to Yankees. Curse. 04 Beat Yankees go on to win 1st WS in 86 years. Curse broken. Others say fluke. 05 Limp into playoffs,die a quick death. See. It was just a fluke. 06 crapout early. Yanks crush us and we never recover. Wait another 86 years I guess. 07......Lead the AL practically from day one. Blowout Angels, Play a tough Cleveland team and comeback to win. Now 2 games up in the WS. No fluke No curse. And   not a copy of the Yankees! Sox just STRAP!  ;D

Agreed!


Yes, they do.

Oddly enough, even though ESPN has the World Series radio rights, they're appearently not exclusive rights. WRKO (680 kHz) and WEEI (850 kHz) are still doing their own broadcasts (WEEI on Wednesdays, WRKO otherwise). They no longer outcue as the "Red Sox radio network", only the station call letters, which suggests to me that everyone else carrying World Series coverage is stuck with ESPN.

Radio coverage of the Red Sox is what got me back into baseball.

When I was at WTOS, I picked up extra hours by working for the three sister stations (WSKW, WCTB, and then-WHQO). I had totally lost interest in the Red Sox after the blown World Series in 1986 (ten years earlier), but there were Sox broadcasts that needed producers, so I picked them up.

One of the things that impressed me right off the bat was WEEI's production. It was absolutely flawless. When there was a local avail, the format called for 90 seconds of silence from the sattelite, and exactly 90 seconds of silence was what you got. NBC, CBS, ABC, and ESPN were all over the road, couldn't follow their own format, and usually left the local producer pulling his hair out and cursing sportscasts in general. WEEI's broadcast was such a breath of fresh air!

In 1996, the announcers were Jerry Trupiano and Joe Castiglione. They did a great job painting you a verbal picture of what was happening on the field. Jerry moved on last year, but Joe's still there, flanked by either Glen Geffner or Dave O'Brien (though I suspect Dave is currently doing the ESPN coverage of the World Series).

It was a very relaxing way to make a few hours' pay. There were nine regular local avails during the game, plus two for pitching changes. The rest of the time you got to just sit back, kick up your feet, and enjoy the game.

In fact, the broadcast was so easy to manage, if I ever got scheduled to do a Sox game during one of my WTOS airshifts, I simply ran both broadcasts from the WTOS studio. The station was wired such that I could feed the WTOS programming on the WTOS board's program bus, and any of the other stations on the audition bus. Worked slick.

To this day, I listen to far more games than I watch. I'll be listening tonight for as long as WRKO's signal holds up, then I'll have to give up and flip on the tube.

So radio coverage is not only alive and well, it's the reason I wear this jacket.

--Thom
Kilowatt Amplifier One Zero Grid Current

Go back and read it again. I never once poo-pood the Yankees for trying to win. I pointed out a difference in tactics.

Your presumption was otherwise, and was incorrect. It made a nice excuse to lump me in with a totally different crowd and twist my words into a different meaning, but that doesn't make your mis-interpretation any more valid.

Read what I wrote, not what you assume is my point of view.


Like your complaint about the ring ceremony "stunt"?

People who live in stucco houses should not throw quiche.


Perhaps if it had been relevant at that moment, I might have? Remember, I was responding to one statement with a few examples of why that statement wasn't necessarily true. You guys took that as some all-encompassing analysis of baseball.

Go back and read it again. Seriously. Not just parts of it, either.

Perhaps if you'd read what I wrote without assuming the outcome before you started reading, it would've seemed more objective and balanced? To the phoenix, everything tastes like ashes.

Shed your presumptions, go back, and read it again.

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

Which brings to mind some of the great announcers from the past: Detroit's Ernie Harwell, Pittsburgh's Bob Prince, St. Louis' Jack Buck, Cubs Harry Caray, NY's Red Barber & Mel Allen  & some current greats like the Red's Marty Brenneman.

These guys painted a beautiful mental image.

Man, what a crap storm I started.  Hey, how 'bout those Patriots!  Undefeated!

coming from CT I think the owner is an AH but the team is like a machine.
They will go all the way this year.
How about those Giants!

How about those UCONN Huskies knocking off USF this afternoon, and as of the bottom of the fourth tonight, the Red Sox are already strapping the Rockies 6-0!!!  Life is good....

The Sox win another one. This team has heart like the 04 team, that is something you can't buy.  ;D

I have now seen the Kahdiak Kids go the distance for the second time.

Twice in one lifetime should be enough for any real Red Sox fan.   ;D

Bill

My son is going to school in Boston.   He sent me a picture from outside a bar called The Fenway or Fenways,  something like that.   Cops, cops and more cops.   He said he'd never seen so many cops.    Let's hope the euphoria doesn't turn to mayhem.

BTW.  He sent me the coolest T shirt.   It reads simply except with better typography  i.e math symbols etc:

         E/c^2  sqrt(-1)  PV/nR

From one of those 'anyone but the Red Sox' fans, congrats to Boston fans on a HUGE series sweep and overall great season. Your team is the best, proven by their abilities and tenacity this year.

And since the Sox have so capably mastered the Yankees formula for success, it seems fitting to borrow the previous century's Red Sox mantra:

Wait 'til next year!!! ;)

Congrats to the Sox and their fans, they truly strapped everybody.

Wait til next year...

Some interesting artcile from a few weeks ago on RS Nation.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7323070



 :o