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THE AM BULLETIN BOARD => QSO => Topic started by: k4kyv on September 17, 2007, 10:57:40 AM



Title: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: k4kyv on September 17, 2007, 10:57:40 AM
As much disdain as I have for Johnny Johnston, W3BE, because of the deceptive and misleading tactics he engaged in during his tenure with the FCC involving several rulemaking proceedings, particularly regarding the AM power limit, I'll give him credit for making some very insightful points in October WorldRadio (see p. 18), in his monthly "Rules & Regs" column.

This month's column is unusually rambling and incoherent, but he managed to bring up some clear observations regarding the volunteer examination system.

He mentions that the Element 2 Question Pool contains 98 "defective, freebee, tricky and misleading questions, 38 of which are usable with answers rewritten as shown".  He goes on to say that that the previous Technician Class question pool was terminated one year ahead of schedule, and in its place came "the greatly dumbed-down, defective-question  riddled, drive-thru-exam Element 2 pool."

"For an eye-opening report on how this disaster was accomplished, e-mail: winguin@bellsouth.net."

"The VECs' venture into policy-making committed to reinventing our hobby is one of the biggest stories in Amateur Radio History.  They are observably bent on changing Amateur Radio from "A radio communication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest" into -- as they petitioned the FCC to do in RM-10870 -- something that makes "...the amateur service accessible to as many citizens as possible."

"Although the FCC denied their request, the VECs have pursued the same objective through the Element 2 dumbing-down shocker.  Quickie cram sessions are now replacing serious learning.  Practically all of the Technician Operator Class examinations administered by our VE team are successful.  One examinee even passed after one-hour of "study."

"...the VECs are creating and issuing a series of exam question pools that have not been read, evaluated and approved by the FCC...  Chilling and true... It's been that way since 1986.  That's what (the amateur community) asked for and received.  All question pool maintenance and administration was turned over to the VECs by an FCC order in PR Docket No. 85-196...  Things have changed since then -- for the worse, obviously."



Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: k4kyv on September 17, 2007, 01:31:40 PM
Don, it's all slanted toward 'appliance operators' since that's the vast majority of hams today. It's the same in other hobbies as well. We've just returned from Pigeon Forge,TN for the Fall Grand Rod Run there and I've noted for several years now that the number of young people attending is getting lower every year. The great majority of those attending are now in their 40s-70s, it's an old folks meeting now! Starting to remind me of hamfests!

Like it or not, the 'appliance operators' are now the majority and will probably be successful in changing the rules and exams to make it even easier to get a license.
My son attended that event several years ago, when he was still in high school.  I have never had a lot of interest in hot rods; in fact, I think it is a shame when someone takes a vintage pre-WW2 car that is in restorable condition, and butchers and chops it up to make a hot rod, by replacing the power train, removing the bumbers, and replacing the wheels and tires.  To me, it's like finding a working, pristine 1936 vintage homebrew AM transmitter, gutting it, and building a SSB linear into the original cabinet and using it to work contests.  I would prefer to restore an old car back to stock, returning everything as much as possible to its original condition the day it left the factory in the 20's or 30's. 

However, I must admit that "hotrodding" has saved many an old car from the scrap yard.  Unlikely anyone would have attempted to restore it to stock in the 50's, so it otherwise would not have survived the decade in any condition.  I remember my father let a salvage yard have his 1936 Chevrolet sedan for $25 back in the 50's because the clutch failed and he didn't want to replace it.  The body and interior were in like-new condition.

But when I was a kid, many high schoolers found old jalopies and fixed them up and converted to "street rods".  They learnt a lot about cars, how they worked, and how to repair them.  They ended up with a street rod without a lot of money poured into it.

In the mid 60's, about the time ham radio was going heavily in the direction of appliance operation, I heard the same laments from hot-rod enthusiasts.  Kids were no longer fixing up old junkers from scratch; their parents were buying them brand new "high performance" vehicles right from the factory.  Fewer and fewer kids were doing more under the hood than changing oil and doing minor tune-ups and emergency repairs.  For anything serious, the car went to the shop, and daddy paid the bill.

 
[/quote]


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on September 17, 2007, 09:16:13 PM
Johnny Johnston. LOL! Another grumpy old man heard from. ::)


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Bacon, WA3WDR on September 17, 2007, 09:28:05 PM
"...the VECs are creating and issuing a series of exam question pools that have not been read, evaluated and approved by the FCC...  Chilling and true... It's been that way since 1986.  That's what (the amateur community) asked for and received."

It's a shame that we didn't receive the AM grandfathering that we we asked for.  Johnny Johnston was able to influence that, too bad he went the wrong way, and too bad he didn't influence the VEC testing too.  Seems like Mr. Johnston was the amateur's enemy.  Hopefully he can do something positive now.

Man, I have a cousin with the same name!  Not the same guy though.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: W4EWH on September 17, 2007, 09:47:20 PM
I won't recover old ground, other than to say that Uncle Sam isn't interested in ham radio anymore, and so that begs the question of "Who is?".

While I don't approve of "dumbing down" the question pools, the fact remains that we either attract new licensees or we cease to matter in short order.

My $0.02.

Bill W1AC


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: N3DRB The Derb on September 17, 2007, 10:24:28 PM
regarding drag racing:

The Fast and the Furious"

pretty much killed it.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on September 17, 2007, 11:41:24 PM


While I don't approve of "dumbing down" the question pools, the fact remains that we either attract new licensees or we cease to matter in short order.

My $0.02.

Bill W1AC


I think there's more to it than sheer numbers. One factor off the top of my head:

Our HF amateur bands are a resource that the military holds in reserve and can use on a moment's notice for worldwide communications. It's becoming increasingly clear that the internet and satellite communications are quite vulnerable to disruption.


Title: Re: old car salvage
Post by: WA3VJB on September 18, 2007, 05:00:32 AM
Quote
I remember my father let a salvage yard have his 1936 Chevrolet sedan for $25 back in the 50's because the clutch failed and he didn't want to replace it.  The body and interior were in like-new condition.

Don how come he didn't give it to some kid back then ?


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K9ACT on September 18, 2007, 10:32:13 AM


While I don't approve of "dumbing down" the question pools, the fact remains that we either attract new licensees or we cease to matter in short order.


The other side of the coin is: who wants to talk to dumbed down hams?  They contribute nothing to the hobby but QRM .

When it ceases to matter, they will be all that's left so who cares?

Our class of "real hams" will last as long as we do.

js





Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: k4kyv on September 18, 2007, 10:32:27 AM
If there is any interest, I may try to scan my 4" thick file on the power proceeding and other anti-AM BS that came down from the FCC during the 70's and 80's, and put it on a website.  I don't know how much storage space it would take, but it would have to be in pdf image format, since even though I have retired, I still wouldn't have time to scan and OCR every page.  I regularly see some pretty thick pdf documents published on the net, so it should be feasible.

Looking over all the documentation, it becomes clear that the fraud, deception and spin generated by the rulemaking division of the FCC on that issue would rival anything from the executive and legislative branches to-day involving Iraq and other hot-potato political issues.

They were able to get away with it simply because AM ham radio was such an unimportant issue in the grand scheme of things, and government "watchdogs" have much bigger fish to fry, or as the French say, they have other cats to whip.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: w5omr on September 18, 2007, 03:00:54 PM
I think there's more to it than sheer numbers.

Oh it's numbers alright, Bill, but the digits are Dollar $ign$.

Lobbyists from Yaecomwood preach to the ARRL about how many radios they're not selling.  Since the American Racket Raisers League is 'the voice' to the FCC, after kickbacks from Yaecomwood, the ARRL complains to the FCC that the tests are too hard, outdated, and there's nothing to be gained from experimentation anymore, so give the Ham Bands (basically) to the Citizens.  The bottom line is, Yaecomwood sells more radios.

Radio for Hams isn't about Radio, anymore... it's about Dollar$ for the manufacturers.

You watch - the next step is going to be that Hams can -only- run FCC type-accepted Transceivers.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: w3jn on September 18, 2007, 03:24:23 PM

The other side of the coin is: who wants to talk to dumbed down hams?  They contribute nothing to the hobby but QRM .

When it ceases to matter, they will be all that's left so who cares?

Our class of "real hams" will last as long as we do.

js





I have had many pleasant QSOs with hams who have recently passed the test.  I see no connection, per se, between what test someone passed and their abilty to hold an interesting conversation.  Nor do I necessarily see a connection between intelligence and the ability to pass the test - either 30 years ago or today.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: W1EUJ on September 18, 2007, 03:30:14 PM
Doesn't every Senior class in High School think they were the best, got away with more troublemaking, etc?

Here's the the new hams! PM me if you need some parts or advice.

David Goncalves
W1EUJ
Product of the Dumbed-Down Testing System, Class of 1996.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 18, 2007, 09:12:35 PM

I have had many pleasant QSOs with hams who have recently passed the test.  I see no connection, per se, between what test someone passed and their abilty to hold an interesting conversation.  Nor do I necessarily see a connection between intelligence and the ability to pass the test - either 30 years ago or today.

Johnny,
If what you say is true,--then why bother to have any exam at all?

Sure,-- one might, or could have have an "interesting conversation" , but about what?--world travel,
house repair, biking, etc, etc,-- but how can one "converse" about electronics, or radio without
some "basics" or "fudamentals" about basic LCR circuits, antenna`s, reactive circuits and how they
pertain to building or fixing equipment and/ or antennas?

Ever try to explain how a resonant circuit works to someone who does not even know, or more
importantly understand ohms law?

                                                 73, K1MVP

P.S, The ARRL and others will say--"you were a newcomer once",--to which I will say, it`s true,--but,
      I began as a Novice, with restricted privileges(low power, xtal control, cw, etc, etc) I did not begin
      as an "Extra" with the knowledge of a Novice, or worse yet, less than the knowledge of a Novice.
   


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: W1RC on September 18, 2007, 10:52:09 PM
It has been often said in many ways, "it's not how you obtained your license that matters; it's how you use it."

Some of us may not approve of or like the "dumbed-down" requirements and testing procedures but that's the way it is in the New Millennium.

Be thankful that the regulators haven't enacted restrictions against us building our own transmitters as is now the case in Canada (and probably other countries) for the entry-level license.  Other than us, who would object?

The cold, hard facts are: If we don't attract newcomers AND make them feel welcome the numbers of licensees will dwindle and our frequencies will disappear.  Then we're done.

73,

MisterMike, W1RC



Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 19, 2007, 12:09:19 AM
It has been often said in many ways, "it's not how you obtained your license that matters; it's how you use it."

Sorry,--Mike,--I dont buy that line,--its straight from the ARRL "power brokers".


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of us may not approve of or like the "dumbed-down" requirements and testing procedures but that's the way it is in the New Millennium.

If you want to accept "dumbed down" or "mediocity" just because its the "New Milennium", then "go for it",
Really a sad state of affairs, if that is your attitude.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Be thankful that the regulators haven't enacted restrictions against us building our own transmitters as is now the case in Canada (and probably other countries) for the entry-level license.  Other than us, who would object?

Dont think the FCC has not thought of it, and it may just happen in this country also in the not so
distant future.
I still think the FCC no longer views Ham Radio here as an "asset" but a "liability", or even a "thorn" in
their side, especially when it comes to complaints, they have little or no time or resources to deal with.    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The cold, hard facts are: If we don't attract newcomers AND make them feel welcome the numbers of licensees will dwindle and our frequencies will disappear.  Then we're done.

Watering down, the requirements just to get the #`s and $$`s up is what is doing ham radio in, NOT
maintaining standards.

                                                     73, K1MVP
 



Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K9ACT on September 19, 2007, 12:25:10 AM


I have had many pleasant QSOs with hams who have recently passed the test.  I see no connection, per se, between what test someone passed and their abilty to hold an interesting conversation.


That brings up an interesting point as it “takes two to tango”.  If a QSO collapses after an exchange of sig reports and rig info, neither side is more at fault than the other. 

Having been a salesman in one form or another all my life, I naturally fall into the habit picking people’s brains to keep a conversation going.  I don’t particularly like to have to do it but it’s sort of second nature to me.

Most people don’t have that innate ability or even know they should try but that does not mean they have nothing interesting to say or talk about.  Unfortunately, all too frequently people don’t but at least one should give them a fair chance.

My interest in the other guy’s rig is near zero unless he made it himself or spent a great deal of time with his head inside of it.

So, when the conversation sags, I don’t say I just got the dinner call, I ask him what other hobbies he has.  If no sparks there I ask what he does for a living.  If he sells life insurance, I start smelling dinner but before giving up I buzzard about my hobbies and background and most often, end up with a worthwhile QSO.

This of course explains why round tables are so popular.  The less gregarious get to be involved but don’t have to hold down the fort. 

I have run two nets in my ham career 20 years apart and both of them were a lot of fun because topics sort of produce themselves and people who have a hard time one-on-one enjoy being part of a gang.

So I guess I agree with the first statement but not with this….

>  Nor do I necessarily see a connection between intelligence and the ability to pass the test - either 30 years ago or today.

It seems obvious to me that someone has to be more intelligent to pass a harder test but again, he still may have something interesting to talk about.

js




Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: WA3VJB on September 19, 2007, 10:15:16 AM
Quote
topics sort of produce themselves and people who have a hard time one-on-one enjoy being part of a gang.

Very true, and I want to point out that there are a lot of listeners to our roundtables who have never introduced themselves nor taken part. Not just SWLs, but licensed people from all backgrounds, typically set up with contemporary transceivers who have discovered us. They find us interesting, and they eventually could be prompted to check in and say hello.

Don's original post had to do with the standards and practices of the volunteer exam program.  To his comments, I agree that there is little enforcement against sloppy testing, and no oversight of the latest threat to licensing, that of municipal workers laying claim to homeland security money by "qualifying" as amateur radio operators.



Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: WD8BIL on September 19, 2007, 10:30:20 AM
Quote
Johnny,
If what you say is true,--then why bother to have any exam at all?

"Here ya go. Fill out this here application and mail it with 2 QST front covers and your license will be mailed in a week !!"   ::)


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: w3jn on September 19, 2007, 10:48:22 AM


Johnny,
If what you say is true,--then why bother to have any exam at all?

Sure,-- one might, or could have have an "interesting conversation" , but about what?--world travel,
house repair, biking, etc, etc,-- but how can one "converse" about electronics, or radio without
some "basics" or "fudamentals" about basic LCR circuits, antenna`s, reactive circuits and how they
pertain to building or fixing equipment and/ or antennas?

Ever try to explain how a resonant circuit works to someone who does not even know, or more
importantly understand ohms law?

                                                 73, K1MVP

P.S, The ARRL and others will say--"you were a newcomer once",--to which I will say, it`s true,--but,
      I began as a Novice, with restricted privileges(low power, xtal control, cw, etc, etc) I did not begin
      as an "Extra" with the knowledge of a Novice, or worse yet, less than the knowledge of a Novice.
   

Rene, your premise that just because someone passed the new exam they necessarily have no (or limited) technical knowledge is faulty.  There are those who have been hams for 40 years that couldn't hold a technical conversation to save their lives, yet I've had good in-depth technical QSOs (and off-the-air eyeballs) with new hams.

Regardless, technical knowledge is but one aspect  of ham radio.  The FCC's goal is to ensure hams have the knowledge and ability not to cause interference with other services and know the regulations.  I don't think it's ever been intended as primae facie evidence of one's electronics skills.

As with on-the-air behavior, it all depends upon the individual, and has relatively little to do with the difficulty (or lack thereof) of the exam.

73 John


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: w3jn on September 19, 2007, 10:50:01 AM
It has been often said in many ways, "it's not how you obtained your license that matters; it's how you use it."

Some of us may not approve of or like the "dumbed-down" requirements and testing procedures but that's the way it is in the New Millennium.

Be thankful that the regulators haven't enacted restrictions against us building our own transmitters as is now the case in Canada (and probably other countries) for the entry-level license.  Other than us, who would object?

The cold, hard facts are: If we don't attract newcomers AND make them feel welcome the numbers of licensees will dwindle and our frequencies will disappear.  Then we're done.

73,

MisterMike, W1RC



Couldn't have said this better, Mike!


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: WD8BIL on September 19, 2007, 12:04:50 PM
So true Mack.... I personally know 2 Extras who "Bought" their dipoles 'cause they ain't never made one before. I tried to show'em how but they didn't wanna take the time.

Oh well....


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: w5omr on September 19, 2007, 12:15:03 PM
I can't believe how much 'store-bought' dipoles are going for, either.

It's cheaper to go to Radio Shack, get a chassis mount SO-239, go to one of the 'do-it-yourself-stores' (Home Depot, Lowe's, etc) and get a roll of 12ga house wire, and then saw up some scrap piece of plexi-glass (which they'll probably give you) and drill a couple holes for strain relief's, mount the SO-239, cut the wire for the frequency you want and build your own, for *at least* half of what the 'store-bought' things are going for.

That's one of the first things a new ham learns, is how to build a dipole.  If hams of today don't know -that-, what DO they know?


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: AF9J on September 19, 2007, 01:05:17 PM
Buddly & Geoff,

Good points.  I've never understood why (even if they have the money) some hams buy dipoles.  They're ridiculously easy to make.  As a ham who's had antenna real estate limitations for years, I've always ended up rolling my own wire antennas for HF (oftentimes having to be creative in the process, in order to get things to fit in what space I have), and even occasionally VHF & UHF (a HB 3-el 2m quad years ago, and as a quick and dirty antenna for 432 SSB & CW, stacked loops made out of stiff brass wire).  Antennas are one of the easiest things to expiriment with (except for any climbing you need to do! ;) )

73,
Ellen - AF9J


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: WD8BIL on September 19, 2007, 01:26:05 PM
Ellen..... ya ever notice how you really hafta work at it to make a BAD 40 meter dipole ?

My bestest pal and I have put 40m ants in attics, apartments, 20ft pine trees and a bunch of other less than optimum spots and have never been able to make'em fail !!

We had one in his attic that had more twists and turns than an O.J. hearing. We couldn't keep the Europeans away with a sharp stick !!!



Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on September 19, 2007, 02:01:05 PM
It's cheaper to go to Radio Shack, get a chassis mount SO-239, go to one of the 'do-it-yourself-stores' (Home Depot, Lowe's, etc) and get a roll of 12ga house wire, and then saw up some scrap piece of plexi-glass (which they'll probably give you) and drill a couple holes for strain relief's, mount the SO-239, cut the wire for the frequency you want and build your own, for *at least* half of what the 'store-bought' things are going for.

That's one of the first things a new ham learns, is how to build a dipole.  If hams of today don't know -that-, what DO they know?


Maybe they feel their time can be more productively spent in other areas rather then screwing around doing all these things.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on September 19, 2007, 02:15:38 PM
P.S, The ARRL and others will say--"you were a newcomer once",--to which I will say, it`s true,--but,
      I began as a Novice, with restricted privileges(low power, xtal control, cw, etc, etc) I did not begin
      as an "Extra" with the knowledge of a Novice, or worse yet, less than the knowledge of a Novice.

So did I, Rene (well, except for the xtal control part). You were licensed long before me. The old Class A ops were licensed long before you. Does that fact make you less of a good guy and first class op? No. So why would your qualifications, trials and tribulations make today's newbie hams anything less than what they make themselves?

I've known you for quite a while, Rene. You're a good, decent guy with a lot to offer those coming into amateur radio now. As Mike and John point out, the license requirements and grades don't determine what kind of on-air op they will be. Just look at our mutual friend KK1L as proof: he came onboard as a 'No Code' Tech, and can easily run CW circles around us. I'd like to say that there are many more out there like him, but the numbers say that there really aren't many more of anything compared to the growth we once saw.

It goes without saying that the League hasn't used the best judgment in the recent past. The FCC hasn't treated AMers fairly either, compared to other modes. The VEC program and overall test question pool isn't anything to write home about. I'm in full agreement.

But it is what it is. Being bitter about it adds nothing of benefit, it merely adds more of the same. And, since improvement seems highly unlikely on any of the aforementioned sore points, why not affect change where you, me, and the rest of us who say we care, can? Get active on the air and off, spend time with your friends and set an example for the newbs to follow. Share the skills and knowledge you've built up over the decades on homebrewing as well as restoration, CW, operating etiquette, and so on.

Every ham on this board and elsewhere should always exercise their right to comment, protest, piss and moan to the FCC, ARRL, their congressmen and anyone else who can help. But instead of holding your breath waiting for the miracle to happen, exercise the control you have now to do something about it by making things better in some way, no matter how small and insignificant it might seem. It can be as simple as getting on the air and not acting like the idiots you hear and detest, or as complex as teaching classes, giving radio talks, etc.

It should be painfully obvious that amateur radio isn't interesting to most folks. It should be equally obvious that other groups won't have our best interests at heart. Therefore, amateur radio will only be as good as WE choose to make it.

As the saying goes, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.  ;)


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: AF9J on September 19, 2007, 02:16:19 PM
Ellen..... ya ever notice how you really hafta work at it to make a BAD 40 meter dipole ?

My bestest pal and I have put 40m ants in attics, apartments, 20ft pine trees and a bunch of other less than optimum spots and have never been able to make'em fail !!

We had one in his attic that had more twists and turns than an O.J. hearing. We couldn't keep the Europeans away with a sharp stick !!!



Yuppers Buddly,

I've had some that zig zagged all over the place, and they still worked pretty good.  The key - keep 'em away from metal on buildings, and try to get whatever height you can, or else you'll wind up with a cloud warmer/NVIS antenna (which can be pretty useful in its own right).

73,
Ellen - AF9J


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: WQ9E on September 19, 2007, 04:18:07 PM
I also vote in favor of the 40 meter dipole as being almost foolproof and certainly a perfect first antenna.  As a novice, I had a 40 meter dipole basically following the eave line on my parents 2 story house with some droop at the ends to fit for length.  Using the Valiant/SX-101 I worked my first DX  using this antenna on its 3'rd harmonic.  I was in my 3'rd or 4'th week of novice hood and called CQ on 15 meters and got a reply from VQ9MI-it sure was fun being a novice!  The antenna also loaded up OK as a top loaded T on 80 meters so that I could check into the Mississippi Slow Net and it also provided a lot of stateside and VE contacts on 40.

I am glad that I had to learn about the technical, regulatory, and operating aspects to get my "ticket" and I imagine reaching goals is one reason a lot of people were attracted to ham radio.  This is probably one reason why contesting, DXing, and chasing wall paper in general is so popular.  I well remember how much following rules was a part of the novice culture then and I still have my log book which documents every time I called CQ in addition to QSO's and net operation.  I was very careful to load the Valiant only to the 75 watt input Novice limit and I remember calculating grid and screen power as part of this limit since that was the official FCC line at the time-of course at that time I didn't know about the inaccurate meter shunts in Johnson equipment so there is no telling how much power I was actually running but my heart was in the right place.

Rodger WQ9E


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 19, 2007, 06:15:45 PM


I've known you for quite a while, Rene. You're a good, decent guy with a lot to offer those coming into amateur radio now. As Mike and John point out, the license requirements and grades don't determine what kind of on-air op they will be. Just look at our mutual friend KK1L as proof: he came onboard as a 'No Code' Tech, and can easily run CW circles around us. I'd like to say that there are many more out there like him, but the numbers say that there really aren't many more of anything compared to the growth we once saw.


KK1L is the "exception", NOT the "norm", as he has a EE and works in Industry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It goes without saying that the League hasn't used the best judgment in the recent past. The FCC hasn't treated AMers fairly either, compared to other modes. The VEC program and overall test question pool isn't anything to write home about. I'm in full agreement.


Ditto, on the ARRL, the FCC and the NCVEC,--they are the problem, IMO.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
But it is what it is. Being bitter about it adds nothing of benefit, it merely adds more of the same. And, since improvement seems highly unlikely on any of the aforementioned sore points, why not affect change where you, me, and the rest of us who say we care, can? Get active on the air and off, spend time with your friends and set an example for the newbs to follow. Share the skills and knowledge you've built up over the decades on homebrewing as well as restoration, CW, operating etiquette, and so on.


As far as being "involved",--mentoring necomers is what brought this "dumbed down" exam system to
my attention.
It used to be one had to learn a few "basics of electronics" BEFORE one got his/her ticket, now the
ARRL and others just want to "get em in the door" and THEN its the OT`s responsibility to teach
them ohms law.(cart before the horse)IMO.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every ham on this board and elsewhere should always exercise their right to comment, protest, piss and moan to the FCC, ARRL, their congressmen and anyone else who can help. But instead of holding your breath waiting for the miracle to happen, exercise the control you have now to do something about it by making things better in some way, no matter how small and insignificant it might seem. It can be as simple as getting on the air and not acting like the idiots you hear and detest, or as complex as teaching classes, giving radio talks, etc.


Already have filed my comments on "restructuring" to the FCC  when they were soliciting comments
back in April of 2004.
I took the time submit my comments on ARRL RM-10867, RAF RM-10868, and NCVEC RM-10870.
So I dont believe I was "holding my breath",--question, is,--did you or others comment to the FCC
or did you even know they were soliciting comments back then?
As far as giving talks,--you and I amd Mr. Mike have given radio talks at clubs, and my take is most
guys at these clubs want to be "entertained", IMO.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the saying goes, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.  ;)


I would say that the problem, is not "joe average ham", but the "powers that be" in HR,-- ARRL, NCVEC, etc.


                                                 73`s, K1MVP


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: w3jn on September 19, 2007, 07:29:38 PM
Quote
As the saying goes, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.  Wink


I would say that the problem, is not "joe average ham", but the "powers that be" in HR,-- ARRL, NCVEC, etc.

Who says there's a problem?  If so, what is it?


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 19, 2007, 09:24:31 PM
Quote
As the saying goes, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.  Wink


I would say that the problem, is not "joe average ham", but the "powers that be" in HR,-- ARRL, NCVEC, etc.

Who says there's a problem?  If so, what is it?

Surely you jest,--you really do not believe amateur radio is "alive and thriving"?
                                              73, K1MVP

P.S., no problem as far as I am concerned,--I had almost 48 years of a "good run" and am still enjoying fixing and rebuilding vintage gear.
Latest project is restoring a couple of BC-348 receivers and building a couple of homebrew transmitters.--enjoy it even more than getting on the air these days.(gee I wonder why)                                         


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: w3jn on September 20, 2007, 06:53:07 AM
^^ See, that's why I really don't think there's a problem.  There are so many different aspects of ham radio that people can pick and choose what interests them.  You're pursuing CW and restoring a couple of BC348s.  Others are doin' the digital thang.  Then there are the corntesters.  I don't like CW, digital, or corntesting but so what?  There's room for any and every interest and it's all good.

THe one real issue I see with ham radio nowadays is the lack of young guys and gals entering the hobby.   Going back to the "old days" with the exams isn't gonna improve this one bit (or any other percieved problems in ham radio, either).

73 John


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: WA3VJB on September 20, 2007, 07:01:53 AM
Quote
THe one real issue I see with ham radio nowadays is the lack of young guys and gals entering the hobby.

That does not have to remain a significant issue, because of demographics, John.

Anyone promoting the hobby should be looking older, not younger, for recruitment opportunities.

Two, very important factors make this viable:

1. People who are now in their 50s-60s remember "radio" as a far more significant factor in life than people in their teens-20s.

2. Many who make up the population lump called the "Baby Boomers" now have the spare time and the disposable income to pick up hobbies like ours.

Anyone who puts together a good campaign will have years and years of people to draw from, even as the leading edge of the "Baby Boomer" generation gets beyond the prime time as a hobbyist.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: The Slab Bacon on September 20, 2007, 08:25:26 AM
A local ham friend and I have for many years had the same question about the 'old extra class' licensees. If their so smart and we're so dumb, why do these guys always want us to repair their radios for them!? Just an observation from a Tech+ and a General.

Mack

Been there, done that!! I repaired too much gear for guys that had higher class lisences than me when I was a tech. One would be amazed how many exters would bring their coax cables over for me to put PL-259s on them!! Many kids ended up with extras because they had a good memort and learned to copy code easily. Just about all of them are no longer lisenced!! If its in your heart you will stick around. If you are nare de will, you will just fade away.
                                                          the Slab Bacon


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on September 20, 2007, 10:36:58 AM
Quote
As the saying goes, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. 

I would say that the problem, is not "joe average ham", but the "powers that be" in HR,-- ARRL, NCVEC, etc.

Who says there's a problem?  If so, what is it?

I was more eluding to the pissing and moaning about 'how horrible ham radio is today', John. The only problem I see within our ranks beyond the obviously-bad operators (which is not a new problem by any means) is the attitude some hold about being better than new hams because they had to do 'more' to get their license, new licensees not being worthy of them, etc. - all the while doing nothing to improve this perceived 'problem' by helping bring new people into amateur radio or even help guide the ones coming on board.

To me, this attitude is as caustic as all the mistakes made by the ARRL, FCC, and any other group. Perhaps moreso, since it comes from within the very group that should be attracting new people to amateur radio. What's attractive about joining a bunch of bitter, cranky old farts?  ::)

KK1L is the "exception", NOT the "norm", as he has a EE and works in Industry.

I strongly disagree. I've met a good number of intelligent, overall excellent folks who are newcomers in comparison to you or I, Rene. One thing is for sure: you won't find them or change your attitude in this matter if you're not on the air and active in amateur radio beyond your own workbench. Come hang out with us at NEAR-Fest and meet some of the other 'new' hams who are intelligent, active, and very interested in the world of amateur radio in general and AM specifically. You'll be pleasantly surprised, and the future might not look quite as gloomy afterwards.  :)


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: w3jn on September 20, 2007, 11:14:07 AM
Well said, Todd! ;D


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: KB2WIG on September 20, 2007, 11:28:44 AM
We need youths so we have someone to move our boatanchors and swing chokes (ants) when we become Advanced OldBuzzardzs .............  klc


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: WA3VJB on September 20, 2007, 12:31:33 PM
Why do you think they invented hand trucks ?


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: KB2WIG on September 20, 2007, 01:37:54 PM
I'm too poor to buy a hand truck... I'll just use my cut up broom handles and plywood to move things around... Worked FB in the cemetary to move monuments, it'll work FB with any iron..


 I still cant see how I can swing one of them through tree Branches.    klc


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 20, 2007, 01:41:55 PM

THe one real issue I see with ham radio nowadays is the lack of young guys and gals entering the hobby.   Going back to the "old days" with the exams isn't gonna improve this one bit (or any other percieved problems in ham radio, either).

73 John

It seems that the ARRL(and others) think they can attract more young people by "watering down"
requirements,--they have been on this "track" for over 20 years now and what has it produced?
Do we find many more youth who "cant wait" to get their license?--As one W3 told me a while back,
ya probably could not even give it away to most young people.

My oldest son(35) a EE, works for Raytheon in the Boston area, (has been exposed to HR all his life)
laughs when he see me "tinkering",--thinks HR is archaic, and who can blame him, with todays
high tech world.
                                                           73. MVP  
    


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 20, 2007, 02:05:02 PM

I strongly disagree. I've met a good number of intelligent, overall excellent folks who are newcomers in comparison to you or I, Rene. One thing is for sure: you won't find them or change your attitude in this matter if you're not on the air and active in amateur radio beyond your own workbench. Come hang out with us at NEAR-Fest and meet some of the other 'new' hams who are intelligent, active, and very interested in the world of amateur radio in general and AM specifically. You'll be pleasantly surprised, and the future might not look quite as gloomy afterwards.  :)

Well Todd,--I would rather be "active" on my workbench and with guys who are active on theirs(of
whom I know) than than be "on the air" especially on fone at this time.

NEAR FEST may be a great "social hangout", but how many guys that go there (other than am`ers)
really use their soldering iron?(if they even have one)
 
Most of what I learned about radio or electronics was not at HR fleamarkets,--it was in the service,
in tech school, and working on aircraft radios, AND also working on my BENCH ar home.

Had lots of "comaradarie" in the service with fellow techs,who were not even hams.
BUT the "common denominator" we did have in the military,--was we all had the "basics" in
tech school AND THEN got OJT(on job training)

The military did NOT put "newbies" on the job without formal training in tech school,--somehow the
ARRL seems to think that OJT should come first without learning the "basics" first to get a license.

When and if the ARRL starts to "get it right"(like they did at one time) I might consider getting back on fone,--until then, I will just enjoy benchwork, and not have the slightest "guilt"  about it.

                                                  73`s, OM, K1MVP                                               


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: k4kyv on September 20, 2007, 06:12:26 PM

Most of what I learned about radio or electronics was not at HR fleamarkets,--it was in the service, in tech school, and working on aircraft radios, AND also working on my BENCH ar home...--somehow the ARRL seems to think that OJT should come first without learning the "basics" first to get a license.

When and if the ARRL starts to "get it right"(like they did at one time) I might consider getting back on fone,--until then, I will just enjoy benchwork, and not have the slightest "guilt"  about it. 

I never attended radio or electronics school.  The only training I ever had was "OJT" from building and experimenting with "projects".  Before HR fleamarkets, it was old broadcast radios that I dismantled for parts.  (And how I regret tearing apart some of the very nice old radios that were given to me.) 

When I was a kid in the late 50's (before the great exodus to the surburbs), a friend who was also interested in radio, and I, would go after school about twice a month and canvass door-to-door in older residential neighbourhoods, asking people if they had any old radios they wanted to get rid of.  The somewhat truthful story we told was that we were in the amateur radio club at the high school, and that every club member was  required to have a project to work on, and that we could use any old radios they were about to throw away, for parts for our projects.  You would be surprised how many (mostly pre-WW2) radios we got that way.  A couple of times we were given radios that were too big and heavy to carry away, and had to get our parents to come haul them home for us.

I started out SWL'ing, and that introduced me to ham radio. (No, I didn't "get into HAM" via CB.) My first rig was built from old broadcast radio parts, plus a few items like crystals and air core plug-in coils were mail ordered from places like Burstein-Applebee and Allied Radio.  Later on, a couple of OT hams gave me some of their excess "junk" and I was on my way.  Finally I discovered hamfests and HR flea markets.

I never in my life ever built a single project "by the book" from the Handbook or magazine articles.  I used those sources to get a general idea about what I wanted to build, then would take inventory of my parts on hand, and try to build something similar around what I had.

Just following instructions for a homebrew project from the Handbook, like cooking up a meal from a recipe book, does not teach you nearly as much as scrounging what you can find, and then figuring out how to use the stuff to build something that works.  To me, just following a published article step-by-step wouldn't be too different from assembling a Heathkit.

By the time I tried for my first amateur radio test, I had already felt the desire to become a ham for several years, and had accumulated substantial knowledge about  radio from reading books and experimenting with the old broadcast radio parts I had collected.  In other words, I had already nailed down the basics before I even considered tackling the Novice test.

To me, it's a totally different hobby to "get introduced to HAM" via CB or "Elmer", study the question pools with little or no basic knowledge or interest about electricity or electronics, take the test, and then buy a plug 'n play radio and get on the air to "talk".  My reaction would have been exactly the same as what would be typical of to-day's young people: "Bo-ring!"


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 20, 2007, 07:03:53 PM
Don,
The "point" is you DID learn some "basics" BEFORE you got your ticket,--you did not get your
"freebie" ticket and then expect other people to "teach" you ohms law.

And the fact is you probably learned a lot from reading books, not just having other people "teach"
from ground zero. What you did took a lot of motivation and ability(to be able to pick it up from books)

You were "self taught",--I had an uncle who back in the 50`s(with only a grade school education)
taught himself electronics and was able to fix TV`s just from book-learning.
That was, and is very unusual to have that ability and motivation,--something that is sorely
lacking in today`s world (motivation).
                                              73, K1MVP                             
 



Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: k4kyv on September 21, 2007, 12:39:05 AM
I just now finished reading the following as part of a message on another amateur radio forum:

Quote
I just heard a NCT on a repeater announcing he went in for a NCG test and passed.  He said, the VE then suggested he should go for extra.

He said, I thought about it even though I know virtually nothing about the inter (sic) workings of radio or electronics I decided to take the test. 

You guessed it!  He bragged that he was now an Extra Class and didn't even have to study. 


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 21, 2007, 01:25:04 AM
I just now finished reading the following as part of a message on another amateur radio forum:

Quote
I just heard a NCT on a repeater announcing he went in for a NCG test and passed.  He said, the VE then suggested he should go for extra.

He said, I thought about it even though I know virtually nothing about the inter (sic) workings of radio or electronics I decided to take the test. 

You guessed it!  He bragged that he was now an Extra Class and didn't even have to study. 

That SUMS IT UP,--This is what the "new exam system" of teaching how to recognize answers has
brought,-- "instant extra`s" who think they know it all after passing a "dumbed down test".

And the VE who gave him the exam, also "cluless", probably thinks he did HR a favor by bringing
this guy "in" with the ARRL`s blessing,--attitude being WE have a "new ham"(more $$$).

And many still insist HR is in "good shape",-- unbelievable.
Is it any wonder these guys go out and buy a simple dipole, connect to ricebox, and hopefully
figure out how to connect the mike up, and think,--"I ARE A HAM" --okayy.

                                                   73, K1MVP

P.S., sure sounds like the CB mentality to me.
                                                   


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: AF9J on September 21, 2007, 07:33:08 AM
I just now finished reading the following as part of a message on another amateur radio forum:

Quote
I just heard a NCT on a repeater announcing he went in for a NCG test and passed.  He said, the VE then suggested he should go for extra.

He said, I thought about it even though I know virtually nothing about the inter (sic) workings of radio or electronics I decided to take the test. 

You guessed it!  He bragged that he was now an Extra Class and didn't even have to study. 


[quote ]


OK, now my 2 cents worth - you all know I got my Extra the semi-old school way (in other words, back in the early 90s).  I don't believe in knocking a newb for being a newb (one of my biggest complaints about the 'Zed lately, is all of the cranky OTs ripping the newcomers, and the many newbs whining about feeling persecuted).  As long as they're knowlegable, or polite, and willing to learn, I have no problem with them. 

BUT,  I do have a problem with newbs who don't have a clue being made Extras.  I also have a real issue with what Don stated up above - what looks like an an Extra Class test that's too easy.  Back when I took my tests, the Advanced was THE technical test of the bunch.  I learned all of the electronics needed to pass the Advanced, back in college
 in the 80s, in electronics classes I had to take (to learn how to design & deal with instrumentation).  In spite of this, I took my Advanced cold in late 1992, and flubbed up, since it had been so long (7 1/2 years) since I had used the stuff.  I'm not a big fan of memorization (personal experience has shown me that I'll forget some answers, and memorizing doesn't deal with curve ball questions).  I borrowed an Ameco Advanced study guide from the local radio club.  I went through a sample test.  OK, here's where things deviate from memorization - whenever I flubbed up a section (or was weak in it), I went back to the relevant section in the study guide and read up on it. Since I'd had the topics in question in college I wasn't at ground zero - I was refreshing my memory.  Then I checked how I did. And I checked on umpteen different different questions in the same topics that I'd flubbed up on before, to determine if I was just lucky, or really remembering once again, how to calculate things.  I did not use memorized answers from question pools (didn't want to, and they weren't readily available, unless you were willing to pay for them).  I did great on my Advanced, and a year later, I got my Extra. 

Sorry if I digressed - the point I'm making is this.  The new Extra exams are supposed to be a blend of the old Advanced, and the old Extra (which in my opinion, was less about the technical, and more about 20 WPM, and a few goofy topics not covered in the Advanced Exam).  As I said, the Advanced was the brain burner of the bunch when I took it.  It sounds like they've wimped out on setting up what should have been the HARD test of the 3 now licenses classes that exist, in that it looks like a lot (if not most) of the old Advanced test, technical material was discarded, when it was blended into the Extra test.  If this weren't the case, NONE of these newbs (like the one bragging about breezing through to Extra in Don's post), would have passed the Extra.

73,
Ellen - AF9J



Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K9ACT on September 21, 2007, 09:16:12 AM
I forgot to ask the most basic question when I responded to the thread:

Who on earth is Johnny Johnston?

js


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: k4kyv on September 21, 2007, 09:23:58 AM
When I took my Extra in 1963, it was about on par with the 1st class radiotelephone.  I know that for a fact, since I sat for both exams in front of the same FCC examiner the same day.  Many of the questions on the two tests were verbatim.  IIRC, the Extra back then consisted of 100 questions, including drawing some schematics and block diagrams.

When they re-instated the Advanced class, they took 50 questions off the old Extra test, and from what a lot of people say they must have taken the hardest ones, and made that the Advanced test. The Extra was then 20 wpm plus the remaining 50 questions. So to go from General to Advanced, and then to Extra was still identical to going directly from General to Extra before they started issuing Advanced again.

I took my 1st phone and extra cold.  A friend was going down to the quarterly examination point to take his 1st phone he needed for a new job he had just taken with the phone company, maintaining microwave equipment.  I decided to go with him at the last moment and take mine as well.  We both already had our 2nd class phone tickets.  I studied a Q-A manual for the first phone during the 1 1/2 hour trip while riding down, and memorised some of the more esoteric topics like what is the deviation of the FM audio on the sound carrier of a standard TV channel.  My intent was to see what the test was like, to give me a better idea of what to study when I took it for real.  I didn't think I would actually pass it; I was just going along for the ride.

When they handed out the exam booklets, I was surprised at how easy it looked.  Much of the stuff on the test was very familiar to me because I had just finished building my first high power AM transmitter for 75m, and many of the questions were about transmitter theory and circuit design.

I felt so confident after sitting for the 1st phone exam, that I decided to stay for the Extra class amateur test.  My friend had to return for work, so I had to scrounge a ride back when I had finished. I was the only one taking the Extra that day.  I had been working a little cw from time to time, so I suppose I had picked up enough copying ability to pass the 20 wpm test (which actually surprised me; I was afraid I wouldn't make it past that part).  Then came the written test, which was amazingly similar to the commercial exam I had just completed.

Ironically, exactly one month later, my 1st phone certificate and extra class ham ticket came in the mail on the same day.  I rang up my friend, and he told me he had flunked his, and would have to drive to Atlanta to re-take it after the mandatory 30-day waiting period.

At that time, the Extra class ticket came with an FCC-issued wall certificate, similar to the commercial radiotelephone and telegraph tickets, only physically smaller.  I still have mine.

I had never taken any kind of electronics course.  I picked up the knowledge strictly from my amateur radio experience which included building several homebrew transmitters from scratch using parts on hand.  Maybe my university studies had helped a little (physics and maths), but those courses were all very theoretical, even the electricity and magnetism course, and very little of that directly involved practical radio or electronics.  I recall that my courses of study did help me on a few topics like measuring units such as Joules, and maybe some of the mathematics, but nothing else.

At the time Extra Class accorded no additional operating privileges.  It was strictly an ego-trip certificate to hang on the wall, but it came in handy when Incentive Licensing went into effect.  I didn't have to worry about licence class subbands, but after a few months it became clear to me that I had preferred ham radio the way it was before IL.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: k4kyv on September 21, 2007, 10:32:49 AM
I forgot to ask the most basic question when I responded to the thread:

Who on earth is Johnny Johnston?

He was practically Chief-for-life at the rulemaking division of the FCC that administered the amateur rules and regulations.  He first came on board in about 1973, and remained essentially in that same position until he retired just a few years ago.  He always appeared to have an anti-AM bias, and during the first 10-15 years of his tenure, we were constantly bombarded almost monthly with ill-conceived, poorly thought-out rulemaking docket proposals that somehow always managed to propose some kind of new restrictions on AM such as bandwidth and power, or to eliminate it altogether.  It was only because of the strong opposition spearheaded by the AM community during these proceedings that AM managed to survive this period at all.

It was Johnston who unveiled Docket 20777 at the Dayton FCC Forum in the early 70's, that would have eliminated AM via a regulation-by-bandwidth proposal similar to the one recently filed and subsequently withdrawn by ARRL.  All phone-band signals below 28 mHz would have been limited to 3.5 kHz bandwidth.  Johnston touted this proposal as "deregulation"!  I was told that at another FCC forum following the the Commission's rejection of bandwidth proposal, Johnston publicly P & M'ed that "Here, we had a good proposal, but it failed to pass because of a bunch of guys who want to keep on using the same transmitters they've had for the past 25 years."

The p.e.p. power limit was proposed in various forms, starting soon afterwards.  I recall one proposal that would have made it p.e.p. input power. It started out always being a small subparagraph of some other proposal, and never managed to make it into Part 97. At various FCC forums, Johnston and others continued to complain about  how "archaic" the US amateur power limit was. Finally the dedicated NPRM was released the early 80's.

After the p.e.p. ruling had passed and the 7-year grandfather clause was about to expire, there were several petitions submitted for reconsideration, including one by ARRL, to permanently "grandfather" the old power limit for AM.  A year or two earlier, a  W3 living in Texas named "Prechtl", to whom Johnston referred on a first-name basis, petitioned the FCC to eliminate AM from the ham bands because he was pissed off over some early-morning SSB vs AM conflict on 7160.  The FCC had retained his petition on file for a couple of years without acting on it, until it suddenly appeared with an RM- number just about the time the Petitions for Reconsideration were filed.

At the Dayton FCC forum that year, Johnston led off with the topic about how the FCC was being overwhelmed with frivolous rulemaking petitions from the amateur community.  "Take the issue of A3E (AM) power.  On the one  hand, we have a petition from the ARRL to change the rules to allow AM to run twice as much power as everybody else, while another  guy in Texas wants to eliminate AM altogether."  Of course his spin was that the FCC would take the "sensible" course of no action at all.  After sitting on it for years, they conveniently pulled out that old petition and used it to counter the petitions for a permanent grandfather clause. Sure enough, the petitions for reconsideration and Prechtl's petition were all denied in the same Report and Order.

At another FCC forum, while this proceeding was in progress, Johnston was the speaker, and he conducted a Q-A session after his speech.  I posed the question, was the FCC going to follow through on their stated commitment to "revisit" the AM power issue in 1990 when the grandfather clause was due to expire.  Johnston, referring to a lawsuit incompetently pursued by K1MAN years earlier, replied, "You took us to court, remember?"  I  replied that it was K1MAN who took them to court.  His response was, "well, as far as I'm concerned it was the amateur community. That issue just got caught up in circumstances."  Then without pausing he directed the forum to another questioner.

I have a paper file over 4" thick that I accumulated on this proceeding.  The overt spin, deception and downright fraud by Johnston and his henchmen would rival anything alleged on both sides of the aisle to-day, concerning the administration and congress, Iraq, Social Security, medical  care or any of the other current hot-potato political issues.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: k4kyv on September 21, 2007, 12:17:52 PM
Quote
I seem to recall the PEP output measurement of power came about because of a lawsuit filed by a ham widow against the FCC concerning the death of her husband while trying to confirm the DC power input of his transmitter or amp. Or it may have just been the possibility of lawsuit involved? Pretty iffy ground for the FCC to require poking around in HV!

That was one of the arguments they used against the DC input rule, but they had no problem with a previously proposed an "interim" method of p.e.p. input that would have carried exactly the same safety risks.

There is no reason why average power output couldn't have been used, as with broadcast stations.  The FCC said it would have complicated the wording of their rules too much, to list anything beyond a "one size fits all" rule.  Strangely enough, the Canadians managed to do it with just two short paragraphs.  But then, aren't Canadian people supposed to be a lot smarter than United States-ese?

“(b) where expressed as radio-frequency output power measured across an impedance matched load,
(i) 2,200 W peak envelope power for transmitters that produce __any__ type of single sideband transmission, or
(ii) 750 W carrier power for transmitters that produce any other type of emission.”

“the transmitting power of an amplifier installed at an amateur station shall not be capable of exceeding by more than 3 dB the limits on transmitting power described in this section.”

Technically, if all the U.S. technical standards are followed to the letter, the p.e.p. ruling hurts slopbucket almost as much as it does AM.  But little has ever been mentioned about that, and slopbuckets routinely ignore the technical standards and "turn the knob all the way to the right" anyway.  The modes that really made out with the power ruling are CW, FM and RTTY, all of which got their power limits doubled.  Interestingly, according to Johnston's own admission at one of the FCC forums, one of his primary operating modes at the time was RTTY.

Regarding the dead ham, perhaps the best thing to do during an FCC inspection would be to tell them, "there it is, go ahead and inspect.  I'll watch."


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K3ZS on September 21, 2007, 03:46:24 PM
About the military and OJT, my experience was backwards.    I got my General (all that was needed at the time for full privileges) when I was 13.    I built a lot of stuff, even built a homebrew mobile rig when I was 14, couldn't wait until I was old enough to drive.   I got into the Air National Guard by getting 100% on their electronics aptitude tests, and not by having any personal or political connections.    Went to Ground Radio school and phased ahead as fast as possible.    I received commendations for getting the highest scores and graduated from the course in record time.   When I got out I could repair an R-390 and all the other ground transmitters and receivers almost blindfolded.   I am not saying this to brag.   The clincher is, in the school was the last time I repaired anything in the service, for OJT we mostly dug holes for the deadman guy anchors and set up the towers for the UHF air/ground radios.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: W4EWH on September 22, 2007, 01:54:09 PM

To me, it's a totally different hobby to "get introduced to HAM" via CB or "Elmer", study the question pools with little or no basic knowledge or interest about electricity or electronics, take the test, and then buy a plug 'n play radio and get on the air to "talk".  My reaction would have been exactly the same as what would be typical of to-day's young people: "Bo-ring!"


With respect, I disagree.

I was one of the co-founders of the New England TCP Association at its rebirth in ~1994. Many of the ham operators who were involved with getting TCP/IP working on AX.25 packet networks had passed the Technician exam by memorizing the question pools, but they were some of the sharpest people I'd ever met, some of whom had authored RFC's, and all of whom were committed to furthering ham radio, by contributing their specialized knowledge of the Internet and data to a field largely stuck in the analog mode.

They considered ham radio to be exactly what it is in the data world: a different MAC layer, with different and interesting capabilities, and they went to work to make both AX.25 and TCP/IP over AX.25 into effective and valued tools in the emergency responders' bag.

I feel we're still mired in the "barbed wire" mentally: the feeling of many old (I'm one) Extras that "I crawled under the barbed wire, so you should have to do it, too!". Consider, please: would APRS have progressed to its current state if not for the dedication and technical curiosity of these "Plug and play" hams?

73, Bill W1AC


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on September 22, 2007, 02:00:22 PM
You bring up a good point Bill. Much of the future of amateur radio will involve computers, in one form or another. So having programming skills, understanding TCP/IP and the OSI model, and having the ability to work with other networking gear will be important.

So, the newbies never soldered a connection on a tube socket? How many of the P&Ming old timers ever programmed in C++? Times change. Get over it.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on September 22, 2007, 03:05:22 PM
Too many have been wrapped too long in 100 pounds of wire and solder. It's time to break free and feel the future of amateur radio.

Ah, I bet it's the ARRL conspiracy and QST sucks too. The bird is calling for a change.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: AF9J on September 22, 2007, 03:07:54 PM
You bring up a good point Bill. Much of the future of amateur radio will involve computers, in one form or another. So having programming skills, understanding TCP/IP and the OSI model, and having the ability to work with other networking gear will be important.

So, the newbies never soldered a connection on a tube socket? How many of the P&Ming old timers ever programmed in C++? Times change. Get over it.

Does FORTRAN Count?

73,
Ellen - AF9J


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: W4EWH on September 22, 2007, 03:32:07 PM
You bring up a good point Bill. Much of the future of amateur radio will involve computers, in one form or another. So having programming skills, understanding TCP/IP and the OSI model, and having the ability to work with other networking gear will be important.

So, the newbies never soldered a connection on a tube socket? How many of the P&Ming old timers ever programmed in C++? Times change. Get over it.

Does FORTRAN Count?

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Feh! Ptoosh!

C++? It's for hardware hacking! ;D

Fortran?  FORTRAN?? Haven't we translated enough formalae?  ;)

When you're ready (he said, modestly) for the major leagues, try coding PL/I in a mainframe shop that bills over $6,000,000,000.00 per year. To this day, my code processes the long-distance portion of your telephone bill.

Computer programming isn't like ham radio, you know: there are a lot of different levels and if you want to hang out with the big boys, you have to pay your dues!!  ::)

73, Bill W1AC


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on September 22, 2007, 04:21:54 PM
That's the beauty of amateur radio. If you don't like digital, don't mess with it. But don't try to stop or other wise complain about those who do choose to mess with it. To each his own.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: KF1Z on September 22, 2007, 07:08:15 PM
To this day, my code processes the long-distance portion of your telephone bill.


73, Bill W1AC

So THAT'S why my bill is so high!!!!

:-)


I lost interest in programming after COBOL, FORTRAN, SCALE, DIBOL etc. (well BASIC too of course).

After I bought my first PC (8088 xt) for way too many thousand $$$....and the "internet" was just a bunch of us fools with 1200 baud modems jacking up our telco bills....
For some reason the whole thing got sour.......

Stuff, and interests change I guess.....

oh wHell





Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: W3SLK on September 22, 2007, 08:56:47 PM
Cripes, I couldn't do much more than 1's and 0's. Give me the equipment, REP card and different I/O channels and I can whip you up a maintenance routine toot sweet, (OK so I lie, maybe a little longer just so I can clean out 25 years of cobwebs).


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K1MVP on September 22, 2007, 11:53:46 PM
Sorry guys but the digital stuff is old and boring to me, did that too long to earn a living. I'm going to have to stick with the wire & solder crowd for a while.

For emergency traffic the digital stuff may indeed be the best thing since sliced bread.

Mack

Mack,
Same here,--also worked with digital, back in the early 70`s in avionics in both general aviation,
and a commuter airline,--many avionics companys, (Collins, Narco, King, Bendix, and RCA) were
already making the switch from tubes to solid state, and digital circuitry.
Many ham rigs at that time were still tube, or hybrids as I recall.

PLL synthesizers were already being used in the aircraft radios at that time(70`s) along with chip circuits
in transponders, DME`s and weather radar along with the Comm and Nav radio`s.
After nearly 20 years in solid state,--I came back to tubes about 10 years ago, just for the
"laid back" enjoyment of it in my "late years".

                                                     73, K1MVP

P.S, the military, was just beginning to go solid state in the late 70`s, and early 80`s.     


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: K3ZS on September 23, 2007, 09:29:14 AM
I have been a ham almost a half century, and soldered a lot of tube sockets.    I also did parallel processor radar programming in C and assembly code using real DSP's , not the audio rate DSP on PC sound cards.   I did that to earn a living, now I couldn't care less about  all of the digital stuff, I'd rather fire up an old tube AM rig and enjoy good old fashioned ham radio.


Title: Re: Johnny Johnston Bashes Volunteer Examination System
Post by: W4EWH on September 23, 2007, 02:53:29 PM
To this day, my code processes the long-distance portion of your telephone bill.


73, Bill W1AC

So THAT'S why my bill is so high!!!!


Sorry, dude, something about you just pissed me off. ;)

Bill W1AC
AMfone - Dedicated to Amplitude Modulation on the Amateur Radio Bands