The AM Forum

A poll is set up online for AM'ers to submit what age groups we fall into.  No need to sign in or give your name, call, etc.  Just choose your age group and hit the "Vote" button.

So far, looks like we are all past the age we can be trusted.
Looks like finally some under 30's.  Interestingly, 15% of total report being 21-30, but only 3% age 31-40.  Still, <1% below 20.

http://w5ami.net/polls/agepoll.php

                               " Interestingly, 15% of total report being 21-30 "

Maybee the counter 'rolls over' after 99...................

If nothing else Don, it backs up your theory of the bands being less congested, and becoming even emptier over time.

Back when I was giving Novice tests, I think all but one applicant was older than me. And I'm not even sure about him, just remember he was around my age. That should've been a big hint of things to come.

Two new questions have been added to the poll. How long you have been a ham? and How long have you operated AM?

...the longer one is a ham, the greater the chance of old buzzard-dom setting in at an earlier age...at most hamfests i attend, the hams seem to be in their late 40s, to abt 60...most have'nt been hams that long, and certainly are not am ops...sk..

And also dont forget:

1. Can you make an "old buzzard" transmission??
2. Have you started "geezing" yet??
3. do you have "senior moments" and brain farts??

 ;D ;D

Geez, I dunno Frank. There are people out there now who do all three of those quite well, aren't hams, and are younger than me!

Seems like the 25 yr mark is the accepted boundary between old buzzardom and RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN! After a quarter century, you have no excuse. 

Not there myself. Yet. Just can't run worth a damn anymore.  ;)

Aww Geez!  So at age 43, being licensed since 1978, and active since 1982 I'm an old buzzard?  <Sigh!>

Ellen - AF9J

In the book, The Peter Principal, Dr. Peters discused Multi-Modal Sumit Complex. This is where a person rises to two seperate levels of incompetence.   Einstein was a trendsetter in Physics and the fashon industry; now you can make a claim of being an old buzzard and a YL .... ..     klc

Ah brrrrr! back in the old days when I was first licensed in 1959, the vast majority of newcomers on the novice bands were high school age.  I recall a science fair at which the sponsors said there were too many amateur radio projects on display.  When I sat for the General class exam I remember the examination room being full of young people.

To-day, W2OY would have no reason to say "no lids, no kids, no space cadets, no school-bus riders, no johnny-come-lately's".  There are plenty of lids, johnny-come-lately's, and a few space cadets,  but hardly any kids or school-bus riders.

And virtually all of the very few youngsters I have encountered lately who do show any kind of interest in ham radio are not the technically inclined or those with scientific curiosity, but the wannabe cop types, AKA "whackers", future "shack-on-a-belt" types.

..."shack on a belt" also means "dipole in a bag"...over priced, and dont werk worth a damn...sk..

Coming soon is shack on the wrist.

(http://hometown.aol.co.uk/peteroberts007/odd/wrist1.jpg)

Protests to the contrary notwithstanding, I'm not so sure that most of us haven't already made the turn and are coming down the stretch.  Which isn't altogether bad.  I'm just concerned that once we've crossed the finish line, SK will sound the same in CW, AM, or SSB.

Just re-checked the poll and there is still that deep lull in the 31-40 age group.  Those are the people who were born in 1967-76, and were adolescents during the 1980's.

Any theories on why?

Appears to be the middle of Gen X. 

The following from Wikipedia

The exact demographic boundaries of Generation X are not well defined, depending on who is using the term, where and when. According to generation researchers Neil Howe and William Strauss, Generation X includes anyone born from 1961 to 1981 in North America. The term is used in demography, the social sciences, and marketing, though it is most often used in popular culture. The generation's influence over pop culture began in the 1980s and may have peaked in the 1990s.

Yep, I read that stat myself.  I consider myself a Gen Xer.  The dip in numbers in the 31-40 age group - probably computers:

You see, this group is the first group to come of age during the Personal Computer boom.  So, it's very possible that they got caught up in what was at the time the latest "hip" techno thing - computers, software writing, etc.  I didn't learn to write code until my Freshman and Sophomore years of college (1982 & 1983 - can you say FORTRAN?).  Around the the time the 31-40 age group came of age, most  High Schools started offering classes on computer related subjects.  So computers replaced ham radio as the techno thing to do.  As for the surge in numbers in the below 30 age group - by the time these people came of age, the faddishness of computers had worn off.  Also, with the advent of Visual Basic, which eliminated the need for many computer languages, there wasn't as much of a need or desire for people to be software gurus. It could also just be due to computer & video games too.  ;)

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Nothing new there, Dick Tracy had one 50 years ago!!

Ellen adds an interesting twist to this. The term "old buzzard" is usually used to refer to one that is of the male gender.

What does one call a female "old buzzard"?? Or is the term non gender specific?

This may be breaking some new ground. ??? ???

                                                       the Slab Bacon

YLs should never be referred to as old buzzards....rather they might be referred to as "seasoned"  lady operators.  Perhaps this could be interpreted as saying that chivalry and respect for the female gender still prevails with us old buzzards.

73,  Jack, W9GT

Gee the guy who did my foundation was in his 70s and still slinging concrete.
I know whimps in their 30s who couldn't keep up with him.

I can think of a few terms at the risk of sleeping on the sofa tonight. I don't think my wife would bless any of them.  Among the more neutral... "OYL".  It rolls off the tongue better than Old Buzzardress.

To Ellen's point on X-ers vs.Boomers.  I consider myself a "late Boomer" because I was born in '59. My memory of hamfests in the late-70s and early 80's is of myself being the only member of the high school ham club, and only a few people my own age at hamfests which generally had people 10 years older than me & up in attendance. 

Ellen, your comment on when they began to teach computer skills in H.S. was interesting. When I was in high school I remember that computers were mainframes in special air conditioned rooms attended to by a robed priesthood. PC's were at least 5-7 years away from coming onto the scene.

I remember that I had a latent interest in computer technology in H.S. but I was prevented from developing it by my algebra teacher who implied that I would be wasting his time because my math skills were weak. He was the advisor to the budding computer club which mainly taught kids to program in Fortran or Cobol. I often wonder what "could have been" if that b*stard had only let me join the club. Although I later went on to a career in engineering, my mind has always perceived a sense of elitism about the whole computer and software industry that I've resented ever since. Brrr, maybe I'm already sounding like a bitter old buzzard!
73, Jim
WA2AJM/3

I think the polite term would be...buzzardette? But there are probably others out there, just like there are for us geezer-guys. Being born in '61 I get to be a boomer and Gen X-er. Um...Yay?

Yes Ellen, you make the 25 yr grade on both levels, licensed and active. There's no escaping the distinction. Revel in the fact that you've accomplished something in amateur radio through time and dedication that many can only dream of.

Frank 'GFZ: my dad worked in the granite industry up here for decades doing shape carving (fine detail sand blasting) and hauled around large hunks of granite on dollies in and out of the shaping room. He's not a very big guy and I'm pretty fit, but it's always been a challenge keeping up with him. He hunts, rides a Harley, and still works constantly despite being "retired". The physical work ethic, as well as work ethics in general, were more ingrained back then and meant a lot more than they do to many today.

Dad's almost 70, so he's starting to slow down a bit. I think I see my chance approaching to 'keep up'. ;)

My OM is 81 and doing his second summer of chemo and still has a grip like a shop vise.
When I was 18 he grabbed me and pressed me over his head.
I can run fast the than him though.

quit smoking my friends because it sure dropped him down a peg.
He quit when he was about 65 but it caught up with him.

Some good points here.  Todd, you are right about the work ethic being more ingrained back then than it is now.  I even notice it more in people my age than (and I never thought I'd see the day, where I'd say this) in some of today's younger people.  BTW - I guess you could call a female OT ham a buzzard.  Remember the Loony Tunes cartoon, where Bugs Bunny changes the vampire into a 2-headed buzzard, and the female 2 headed buzzard chases off after him?

Jim, I remember in my high school, where the situation was similar.  We didn't have a mainframe, but they had an early modem hookup to a mainframe that one of the local businesses (Mirro Aluminum) had.  It seemed like all they were doing, was programming to do math problems.  If I remember right, it was a computer club that used the computer room in high school, and the only reason I knew about it, was because they showed it to my math class.  By that time, I was a Senior, who was working at a part time job after school.  So I really had no time for a computer club.  Sadly, my high school's radio club had lapsed into neglect.  Nobody belonged. There was no club advisor, the radio gear sat in the radio room collecting dust, and the mulitband quad was falling apart from the weather.  I said that I wouldn't mid putting the club station on the air (remember, in High School, I had a license, but no gear), and was basically ignored.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

I dunno if I'm an ol' buzzard or not.   I'm a baby-boomer, born in '51.   Been on AM since I got my ticket; well, at least six months after, once I had my phone priviledges.   I do however, have buzzards flying over my house.  Should I be worried?

I probably would be more worried if a cat named Oscar visited your location and wanted to curl up next to you.

       " a cat named Oscar visited your location and wanted to curl up next to you.  "

But only in a nursing home.......     klc

Ellen, FYI -- Bill Gates got started programming in high school using a mainframe timeshare via modem which was a popular method of computing at that time due to the high cost of computing power. Also, remember the old keypunch terminals and tape readers? I try to explain this to college kids and they don't believe me.

By contrast my high school ham club was relatively well off with two advisors, a complete Swan 500CX HF station with 2-meter AM transverter, and tri-band beam over the library, and halfwave dipoles for 80 and 40 over the science department. The membership had dwindled in the mid-70's and I was the only one left by that time. It seems most people wanted instant gratification and didn't want to study for the license.
73, Jim
WA2AJM/3

Hi Jim,

Yeah, I remember the keypunch tapes.  I even remember the punchcards.  I don't know if I saw them in the High School computer room. But, when I was in college (Univ. of WI, Class of '87) taking the obligatory computer science courses for my engineering degree, I remember seeing some keypunch machines, and a punchcard machine, sitting in one of the computer labs, gathering dust (this was in 1985).  I goofed around with the punchcard machine for a minute or two one day, while I was waiting for a program I wrote for a class, to compile, so I could run it.  That was during a summer class.  The machine I was using was a Vax 11/780, and there were 30 other students using it at the same time.  You had to sign up for time.  If you went over the total amount of computer time you were alotted for the computer course, you had to pay to get more time!  That machine would run so slow with 30 people on it, that it would literally take a half hour just to compile a program (convert it to machine language so that the 11/780 could run it).  Some people would play cards.  I'd read a book. The worst part of the whole thing was finding out after waiting for all of that time, that you couldn't run the stupid program, not because of a logic flaw/bug in your program, but because of a (computer language related) gramatical error in the program!  Ugh!

Your High School radio club station was at least better than ours.  Ours was just a DX-60 with a Heathkit or Hallicrafters receiver. Not only that, it was located in the Industrial Arts building (in other words, where shop classes were held).  Many of the people who hung out at that building were a bunch of lowlifes.  The only reason I even knew about the ham club station, was because I took my only high school electronics course, in the industrial arts building, when I was a Sophomore (they didn't hold them under the aegis of the science department).  The club station was in a small side room, off of the class room I took the electronics course in.  Frankly, the course was a waste of time.  It was just a rehash of basic Ohms law stuff I had in my 8th grade science class.  The instructor had little to no control over the students, and we had two students that were a bunch of absolute lowlifes (one of them was drug dealer).  Walking back and forth between the industrial arts building, and the main high school building, you'd often see people having fights.  After that classroom experience, I said "no thanks!"

73,
Elen - AF9J

         " Yeah, I remember the keypunch tapes. "

The tape machine.... I heard stories of people emptying the punched out "holes" into paper bags, and then loading the contents into defrosters, (or that little door in the dodge Dart footwell)...fun times.   The batchcards were bad as the cardstock was thicker, and it had sharp edges. The rectangle  chaff hurt if it got stuck in the eye. Still, a grocery bag full of them made a fine sight on windy days.....  klc

Many years ago we had a friend that worked for a printer / bindary. He used to bring us boxes of paper dots that were the punch outs from loosleaf type books.  when a friend of mine got married we got him good at the reception. We opened the convertible top of his car (an MG Midget) and filled it up to the top of the windshield with the paper dots and then closed the top back. He got one hell of a surprize when he went to leave that evening!! ;D ;D

                                                    the Slab Bacon

Wow, talk about a carload of chads! Must've been a waterfall of paper when he opened the door.

       **GEEZALERT**

My found memories of such havoc involved using an empty LP cover, filling it with a can of foam aftershave, slipping the opening under a UVM dorm room door on the girl's floor at Mason hall, then stomping on it. Looked like a winter wonderland inside.  ;D

They still had punch cards here when I came to work in '96, although the punch and reader were long gone. The cards got used for leaving notes for other operators. We also disassembled an old mainframe with a chiller on it that summer, what a beast. The new z900 box is tiny in comparison.

I knew guys who related working in a "strategic communications complex" back in the late 60's, during the 'Nam era.  You had to have a top secret clearance to even get past the door of the place.  They used paper keypunch tapes in machines that looked like teletype unts (maybe someone here could refresh my memory about what purpose the punched paper tapes served).

As part of the hazing ritual for new guys, they were assigned "chad count" detail.  It was explained to them that as a security measure, every one of the "chad", or the little round pieces of paper punched out of those tapes, had to be accounted for.  The floor of the room would look like the aftermath of a snowfall at the end of  the day.  The newbies were directed to pick up the chad by hand, piece at a time, and count the little pieces as they placed them in a trash can.  I think standard procedure was to let them work at it for about a half-hour before letting them know the whole thing was a hoax.

Then there was this.....

Don,
Paper tape was compact storage compared to cards. Cards and tape made me run away from a life of programming computers. Cobol was another reason. I wish my skills were better in the new world of SDR.
I remember our secure comminication system in the 80s when I worked in the field. Sometime you could actually get a full phone call in before it fell apart. I hear it was a trip to install the key code.

               " Paper tape was compact storage compared to cards.  "

Small programs fit into the Kodak 35m film cans ( the metal ones with the screw on cap).   klc

Cards were only good for a name and address, and not much else....
Good filing system... the high school I went to had been using them to take attendance..if you card went to the office you were not "present and/or accounted for.."

We  had three computer rooms there.... one air conditioned room with the DEC PDP8A mainframe, and one sysop terminal, one was the classroom with 10 CRT terminals, and 2 Lineprinter terminals.... (they had paper tape readers on the side)... then the 'media storage' room, where the cardreader was, allong with shelves for the 16" platter disks...


Guess which room I spent most of MY time in....  :-)   the AC of course.....

It was great when people didn't want anyone to know they were late, or not even in school at all that day...they'd come to the back door, hand over a 'gift', and we'd remove their card from the system....

Teachers and administrators had already allowed themselves to rely so heavily on the pile of transistors.... they never had a clue what was going on...
Heck, half the school could've been absent, they'd say " huh, the computer says they're all here...that's odd...."

Let's see, that was 29 or so years ago, so I know computers have been used in scams, and scandals at least that long!

I'ts easy to fool a "user".

Wasn't quite sure how to answer this one.  My first official AM QSO was in my last month as a novice with a Heath Twoer.  I choked terribly with mike fright, the fellow on the other end had a lot of patience.  This experience kept me away from microphones in general for the better part of a couple decades.  I still love CW.

The real AM bug kicked in around 1992 when I discovered the 3885 Midwest Classic Radio Net (the NC at the time was only 3 miles from me) and the QTH became rapidly Boatanchor-heavy, starting with a Johnson Ranger and leading to the current ton or two worth.

So I disallow my first AM QSO in 1967, and claim 1992 as my AM awakening year.  I do respectively submit that my AM QSO's in 1992 came before my first FM QSO, that's worth something!

Mark K9TR

Cool!

BTW I took a look - you have a nice website.

73,
Ellen - AF9J
Old Buzzardette

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. What most people forget about is the original old buzzard. Old Buzzard Hiram, W1JS from Buzzards Bay on beautiful Cape Cod. Hiram became a ham radio operator back in 1910 at a very young age. He worked the Titanic as it was sinking in 1912. In WW 1 he was serving with Major Armstrong  in the fledgling Army Signal Corps. At the end of the war he returned to amateur radio in 1919 when amateur radio was allowed to continue. Hiram got the callsign 1JS Later W1JS . Hiram's ragged voice and buzzardly operating style could be heard on am on the big 85 in to the early 70s. Hiram would hold court with other old buzzard compatriots such as W1NX , W1FQ , W1PB, W1DML and others. The subject matter seemed to revolve around Hirams good wife Mable and her homemade apple pie. Other equally boring subjects were discussed as well. These old buzzards would crash in on top of an ongoing QSO of the "young whippersnappers of the day, such as myself back then. All of Hiram's radio compatriots died off, their call letters reassigned. Hiram did not mind the store and forgot to renew his license in the late sixties. He still went on operating.After all who was going to question his legality. As it was in the middle 70s the callsign W1JS was vacant, Don K4KYV had had his extra for the requisite 20 years . He was able to apply for and get the call sign W1JS. Back then you could hold two or more callsigns. In the later 70s the FCC changed the regs . You could only hold ONE callsign. Don decide to let W1JS go. Once again the call sign  went into the unassigned callsign pool .When W1JS got reassigned in the middle 70s Hiram went ballistic. He felt that because he had been a ham radio operator from the very beginning that the FCC should honor his license as a lifetime license and needs no renewal. Hiram occasionally would show up and chastise various operators from time to time ,then go away as soon as he appeared. He still sported the callsign W1JS. In the mid 90s when the vanity callsign program came along. Another old friend of mine Jack WA1ALM applied for and got W1JS ,which were his initials.Old buzzard Hiram only appears once in a while as 1JS his original call.I can still hear Hiram in my minds ear"Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Hiram here --hotel India --Roger--Mary. and we are located on buzzards bay on beautiful Cape Cod. The rig here is an '03-A modulated by a pair of 211s. the antenna here is a windom and the hearing aid is a Pilot Super Wasp ." by now Hiram must be in his early 100s by now . So who do we think we are calling ourselves Old Buzzards De Tim WA1HnyLR ;Djavascript:void(0);
Grin

Thanks for the history lesson Tron!!!... Great to hear from you!!..

Regards to Marcy!

73;

Glenn, Formerly K2KL, "the good Glenn"

Aaahhhhh-Brrrrrrrrr-Yes! I recall those spritely exchanges, including the ones between Hiram and Dubble-yew-wun-PEEE-dubble-yew! It warmed the cockles of my heart to hear Hiram leave the QSO when Mable had a nice, hot piece of PIE waiting for him BRRRrrrrr!

Not to mention the most entertaining musical kazoo selection by his cousin Horace, crackling away on the old Victrola.

When CW was still king and real men sported RF burns in odd places. Now THOSE were the days, I tell ya....!