The AM Forum

Last week Thursday, I put a couple of my radios up for auction on eBay.  Why?:  1.) I need the money for a brake job on my car;  2.) I need to make space on my operating table  3.) I want a transmitter with 160m AM capability;  4.) I want to get rid of a rig that's collecting dust;  5.) I want to use the cash from the auctions to buy a 160m AM capable transmitter, and a Ten Tec Argonaut V.  An hour ago, I got a question from freebander asking me if the dust collecting radio (the Swan 270B), could be put on CB, and if so, did I have a "Buy it Now" price for the radio.  Grrrrrrr!  Freebanders make me irate!   I ended up having to strongly answer the question by saying I will NOT sell the radio for CB & freeband use.  And, I had to add a statement to the listing, stating that I will require proof of a valid Amateur Radio License, before the sale is final.  I just love the way freebanders assume thay can do whatever they want!  How stupid & brazen could he be?!  Not only is it illegal to sell a ham rig for CB & freeband use, but if I were to be one of "lucky" ones the FCC were to hit for doing so, I could lose my license, and pay thousands of dollars in fines.  NO Thanks!

Here's the listing if you're curious about it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Swan-270B-Transceiver_W0QQitemZ200124300283QQihZ010QQcategoryZ4674QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


73,
Ellen - AF9J

I think the fine, etc applies only to commercial vendors.  I have never heard of an individual ham being busted for selling to another individual.  Nevertheless I would not knowingly sell one to a CB'er, though (unless they offered me at least 10 times $$$ what it was worth).

Now if they showed me that they had something like a nice AM broadcast transmitter, a rare mid-30s' Collins or a half-dozen NOS HF-300's, I might consider an even swap, heh heh.

Wink! Wink!

73,
Ellen - AF9J

I'm surprised the Chicken Bander didn't ask how many 'pills' it uses or how many Bird watts it will put out.;)

I also want to get a Argo V. Unfortunately, I'm getting married next year and I'm writing checks left and right. It's a shame when things get in the way of my toy fund.

Good luck with your eBay auction. I got tired of eBay so I usually buy and sell only on radio related sites. I've had good luck both buying and selling.

I once sold a Uniden HR-2600 to a non-ham in the late 1990's who hacked it up and then tried to return it saying it was not in working order. Never again. I don't have anything against "CBers" because I have several friends who are CBers and they are very intelligent and great people.

Best,
Brian

What's unfortunate is that marketing to the freeband crowd often bumps the price up. The Swan looks similar to the Siltronix 1011, a favorite of freebanders, and sure to attract attention. I'm surprised you got only one such inquiry. Many hams are unscrupulous about selling to CBers and illegals. Thanks for doin' the right thing, E!

Ellen,
Maybe you shudda stated a copy of a Ham license before the sale of the radio. And that you will verify address and name in the FCC data base. The freebanders love the Amateur radio equipment.
Fred

Ellen,

Out of curiosity, where is the 270B in relation to the 350/500 rigs? Was it an earlier version, or later? Is the PS built in?

I've always liked the look of the Swan rigs, but I don't remember this one.

73, Bill

P.S. How high does it go n the mod? Is the kicker built in?

Hi Guys,

Fred - I ended up inserting a statement into my listing stating that I would require proof of a valid ham license, for the sale to be final.

Bill -  the 270B grew out of the 260 series.  It's an 80-10m rig, with a built-in power supply.  This line of rigs was made during the late 60s & early 70s.  They were marketed as base, mobile, and (semi) portable rigs.  They're all similar, other than a few minor changes in the PA tubes.  Here's the Chronology:

1.  Swan Cygnet  260 - Made in 1969.  One 6LQ6 final, 130W out SSB, 90W out CW, 80-10m, built-in 120V AC & 12V DC power supplies, and built-in speaker.

2.  Swan Cygent 270 - Made from 1969-1973.  One 6LQ6 final, 130W out SSB, 90W out CW, 35W carrier AME, 80-10m, built-in 120V AC & 12V DC power supplies & speaker.  Additions were made in the form of an S & tuning meter, better filters, selectable sideband control, separate RF & AF gain controls, 100 kHz crystal calibrator, and an optional VOX unit.

3.  Swan Cygnet 270B - Made from 1970-1973.   Basically a cheaper 270, in that the 12V DC supply was not built-in, and was only available as an option.

4.  Swan Cygnet 300B - Made in 1973.  Basically the same as the 270B, except for a different finals tube, that gave it 150W out on SSB.  Somebody told me that the 8950 final tube for the 300B is hard to come by, and quite expensive to boot.

Here's a URL for a listing & info on Swan rigs:

http://www.pcs.mb.ca/~standard/

As for the Siltronix (originally sold as a Swan) 1011 - yeah that was stupid move by Swan in my opinion.  It was such a thinly veiled freebander rig.  All you had to do to get it on CB/freeband, was cut a jumper across the bandswitch.  Swan even clearly hinted at how to do so, in the manual for the rig.  The rig looks kind of like a cross between the Cygnet series, and the 350/500 series.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

              "  Unfortunately, I'm getting married next year "

It is a very dangerous thing to post these statements on the board..  The data is saved, and can be an embarassment if the xyl takes up an interest in AM .... ..      klc

I kinda lost touch with the level of activity of the freebanders.
back in the 70's, I actually got a CB license, KAEJ0210 I think
it was. wonder if anyone else did, don't know if they still issue em.
anyway, glad the gear will go to a ham.

Hi Dean, 

Yeah, when I couldn't afford ham gear after I got my Novice in Feb. 1978 (my parents stipulated I couldn't spend more than the cost of an average CB), my folks cheesed out, and let me get a CB as a substitute.  My dad even got a license under his name, that I basically used.  I hated it.  By the end of 1978 I had quit doing CB.  I think by the end of the 70s or the early 80s, the FCC, completely eliminated the requirement for a CB license.  None have been issued in decades.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Since I was selling CB's at Lafayette, I got a CB license in 62 or 63. It was a 2W...; then FCC revised their "numbering" procedure and converted it over to KBI4708. For some reason, never forgot the call.

Yeah, maybe I should have worded that differently! hehehe
What it meant to read was "I'm getting married next year and unfortunantley, I'm writing checks left and right"! ;D

Best,
Brian

Stop digging...

Too late, Brian.  Wives have a way of finding out these things and she will never read your corrected statement.  Sorry buddy, you've had it.  Ahh... wedding bliss and you're about to be the blister that gets popped!    ;D

73,
Rick

The shame of it all is that chicken banders and freebanders will pay more money for that stuff than legitemate hams will. It is a shame, but those guys will spend some serious bux for bragging rights!!

                                                         The Slab Bacon

Good Morning Frank,

I sold it last night to N5WTZ for $91.  It's already packed up (and foamed - I also removed the sweep tube final, and packed it in its own separate box solidly) and ready to go.  I checked the guy's e-bay address & qrz.com info, and they match up.  So he's legit.  He's a minister who's an OT (been a ham since 1961 according to his qrz.com bio), who lives in Indiana.  The FT-897D was sold to a Technician class licensee in Iowa. Both of the buyers already paid me via Paypal.

And you're right about the CBers & freebanders being more than willing to spend big money for our stuff.  I'm sorry, I'll sell it to a legitimate ham for less, thank you.  Tomorrow, I'm going to the Oak Creek swapfest, to see if I can find me some 160m AM iron.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

I don't advocate making transmitting equipment available to be illegally used by the 11m crowd, but if they are willing to pay me 10 times the value for some old beat up piece of junk that I would probably just part out anyway, or if they have in their possession some other nice piece of radio gear that they are willing to swap because they don't know how to make it work on 27 mHz, then I might be willing to sell or trade, with a clear warning on my part that they need to acquire a ham licence before they put the radio on the air.

When I ran the two-way radio service back in the early 80's, I helped another licensed ham negotiate a deal with a CB'er to swap even a well-used FT-101EE with the 11m xtals installed, for a near-mint condx BC-610E.  I didn't get anything out of the deal other than knowing I had rescued a nice AM transmitter from likely butchering or even the landfill, but the CB'er thought HE had ripped off the ham by getting a "nice" piece of Jap Crap in trade for that "ole piece of junk".

I checked out the FT-101 to make sure that it still worked, and led the CB'er to believe he had better take the guy up on the deal because the BC-610 was totally worthless, and that he would never find another taker (I was probably right back at that time).  The CB'er had acquired the 610 believing that all he would have to do would be to connect his radio up to it to use it as a "leenyar".

160 should be quite interesting for you. I think you are in the same boat that I am. 160 with short compromised antennas creates some interesting problems. The fun of it all is the learning curve of finding the solutions. We have had many interesting discussions here on that subject!!  Soundz like a nice dixie 100 or yiking 2 is in order!

                                               The Slab Bacon

Hi Frank,

Actually I've done 160 with short antenna systems.  Back in college I actually made a helical vertical (I got it out of an old Handbook), out of old computer cable wire, and ran it indoors!  I had a few ragchews with it on both SSB & CW.  It threw more than a few people for a loop.  My rain gutter antenna, as about a 1/4 wave long on 160, and is actually quieter on 160, than it is on 75.  Results have been OK with it on 160, when the QRN isn't too bad.  I won't lie, I've always liked 160, and have been on the band ever since I got my General back in 1986.  I actually prefer 160 to 75.  I'm thinking along the lines of a Viking, or Valiant.  DX-100? - are you crazy!  I'll just about kill myself carrying the thing up to my 2nd story apartment.  At least I can sort of handle the 85 pounds of a Johnson.  100 plus pounds from a DX-100? - that'll be the straw that breaks this camel's back.  If worse comes to worse, I'll get a Globe Scout, or a (if one can even be found that isn't going for a zillion dollars) Ranger (I regret selling the one I had 12 years ago).  Any suggestions on rigs are welcome.  Put on your thinking caps, so I can have some shopping ideas.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Ellen,
       After lots of experimenting with shortened antennas on 160 (mine is a 60' flat top @33') About 100w is pretty much the minimum amount of powa that you can run and be heard. 100w into a shortened antenna, you can somewhat be heard, but you get kicked around and stomped on pretty good. Somewhere near legal limit that starts change and people start to hear you pretty well.

The biggest problem on 160 is finding someone to talk to. All of the east coast 160 wimps seem to be off the air and asleep by 9:00 pm even on weekends. I spent a lot of time waiting for people to show up on 160 that I missed many good qsos on 75 ;D

                                              The Slab Bacon

I have noticed that even in winter.  They roll up the sidewalks on 160m after about 8 PM even on weekend nights.  Late at night I have often heard the band open coast to coast, and nobody on.  I call CQ till I'm blue in the face, and no response.  Finally, I do hear a station from somewhere in the far reaches of the continent strapping in like thunder.

For some reason, 75 seems to be the more popular hangout for nocturnal emissions.

Hi Don & Frank,

Frank, I'd pretty much figured that 100W was the minimum on 160 AM (although I have had good results with much less on 160 CW).  Any rig like the Scout, Ranger, et. al would be for driving something like an Ameritron.

Don (and Frank too), yeah, it's hard to find any  night owls anymore on 160, although I do know about a fair amount of early birds that show up on the band at 4 and 5 AM.  Anybody have any other ideas for a 100W, 160m AM rig?

73,
Ellen - AF9J

I'm sure real estate for an antenna is one of the big stumbling blocks for top band action, it is for me.  If ever I get my HyTower up an this old GE BT-20-A finished I plan to haunt 160 every chance I get.  It will most likely all come together about the time the seasons change which is perfect.  I hope to work all of you real soon.

Rick/K5IAR

Frank,

ever think of shunt feeding ur tower with the miniquad on top on 160? wonder how that would work. I dont think flattops are where it's at on 160, unless you can get it 130 ft up. Don's the tower of power on 160. That 1/4 wave vertical drops the bomb. I'm sure glad I got to go down there and see his setup. Ham radio paradise, old skool.

"Anybody have any other ideas for a 100W, 160m AM rig?"
Ellen- how about a DX100, Viking II or Valiant?

73
Steve WA2DTW

steve,
       thats about the 3 I'd pick for a 100w am rig, and in that
order. I have 6 of them, 5 working, 6th for parts!  I doubt
I'll be able to work you guys from az, although with 3
80 meter verticals and full ground under them, I might be
able to load up one of the verticals from 160     Dean

What the heck frequency is the 160 action on? 1885, or 1940/1945?

I heard a little activity last winter up around 1940, but didnt make a mental note exactly where. Once I get my dx100 running again I'll want to give it a try.

Also, is the west coast offset on 160 just as it is on 75? (eg, 3870 instead of 3885)


Thanks,
Jason kf6pqt

Jason you will find activity on 1915 from some in AZ, NE, OK, TX, WY, UT, SD, ND and Canada.  Some of the morning guys in AZ are on 1885.

Activity in 5 land is sparse at best, but hopefully this winter there will be more on.  I have not heard any 6s on 160 but that doesn't mean there isn't activity.  Check with the group on 3.870 and ask.

I was first licensed the year after 11 meters was given to the CBers, and never really used 11 meters.  There was always some resentment about losing 11 meters, which during sunspot highs was a great DX band, some said even better than 10. 

But now- we have 12 meters, 17, and a few other additional bands.   When 10 and 12 are dead, which is most of the time, I sometimes listen to 11 meters to get some idea about the level of propagation.  Although it can be vile, it can also be quite entertaining. 

So- as long as they don't encroach on our bands, why not just let them do their thing on 11 meters?  And do we really want all these guys to get no-code amateur licenses and crowd our bands with their banter??

73
Steve WA2DTW

The problem with the Dave Made and Texas Star slack jaw gang is when they're "doing their thing" on 11 meters, they're trashing 10 meters with RF garbage from their non-linear linears. One of my favorite pastimes used to be working QRP cw in the lower 50khz of 10 meters. ..... As soon as one of these clowns fires up... no more QSO.  :P

......I`ve got a Realistic Navaho 140 to trade for a...............
(insert your pride and joy, here)..........I was just thinking
about (partsing the parts out, nice and awkward, huh?) to
some friends or turning it into an audio driver (4- watt
audio drivers can be royal pains) but you never know?.........

Glenn
My guess is that if they get ham licenses, they will be no more careful in tuning their "linears", but will just bring more splatter to our bands.
73
Steve WA2DTW

Hi Steve;

Not having any tuning controls (solid state) won't stop these big mawl operators from generating Tee-rash. Just overdrive the input beyond saturation with a good helping of completely overdriven distorted audio. That will do the trick, not to mention who knows what type of biasing arrangement these Joe made amps use. Can you say Class C?

Once and a while I'll tune the bedside receiver across the Cluck Band to check for 10 meter openings (good for something) There is a group of locals that openly brag about their linears that run a pair of 3-500's! and how much "swing" they get.... "4 watts of carrier, 800 watts on voice peaks, caw mawn!!".

OK, I must have been living in a deep hole until now.  I just looked on the Dave Made site and saw one of his tube amplifiers that "boasted" a 30kw carrier and 84 kw peak "as measured on a Bird Wattmeter".  Plus he had a mobile amp listed for 12 kw output. 

I wonder if thats why some CB'ers in the Cleveland area spread their audio out over plus and minus 500kc.

Is Dave and/or Dave Made still in business?   How much does his 30 kw amp sell for?  The site had dates of 2001 on it, so I wonder if he is still around and making amps.


73
Ted, K8VPL
....completely underpowered with a Valiant and a DX-100B.

S-W-I-N-G!!

Dat's what it's all about! ;D

AFAIK, the folks who inhabit this subculture depend on rumors and snake oil salesmen for facts. Claims such as "85KW measured on a Bird wattmeter" go unchallenged because no one knows any better.

Perhaps the CBers, along with the foreign broadcasters, can actually be our allies in the fight against BPL.
73
Steve WA2DTW

Good man ! , Don't sell to those bloody freebanders . I don't have any gear yet ( only 16 so no money and only been licensed since April ) but i would not sell with out someone giving me proof of there license .

Hi Matthew,

What kind of gear are you planning on buying when the money is right?  My first rig was an old Heathkit DX-20 and a homebrew super regen receiver.  Man, talk about drifting!  I needed an extra hand what with the key, the regen control and the tuning!  Hope to catch you on the air someday.

73,
Rick/K5IAR