The AM Forum

I just don'tunderstand my 1977 Sears washing machine is starting to have controller problems.
The mechanical computer sequencer is starting to hang up.

The problem will be what do I buy to replace it with the same quality???
I'm sure it won't be make here or as well.
any suggestions.

My 17 year old dryer is also showing signs of were...A Maytag and new Maytag stuff is junk.

I know XLY won't go out to the stream behind the house and beat it on a rock....

Frank,
When we were building the house here it got to the time to pick appliances. One of the things I did not want was an electronic controller on the appliances.  We ended up getting some of the appliances  with mechanical timers.  I figured we'd see the situation you're having right how. We picked a washer and dryer with mechanical timers. I figured if they crap out that would be the first thing to go and chances are they'd be easily jury-rigable which would buy time to replace the timer if that ever was necessary.

The oven and microwave have electronic controllers and it's a matter of time before they crap out since they're "on" all the time. With the flakey power we have out here and goofy storms in the summer it's just a matter of timing and circumstances before they take a hit then I'll be bitching at the manufacturers.  I'm looking forward to an ass-wooping.

FWIW all the major brands are not unique as they were 30 years ago.  They all use common parts between them.  A timer from one brand will be the same timer in another brand. So it doesn't surprise me  that Maytag is junk.  Chances are Maytag uses a Fridgedaire or GE or whatever controller.

You might try getting in touch with this outfit for replacement parts. I have had really good luck with them.
http://www.repairclinic.com/0070.asp?apptype=9&gclid=CLyxxJGg4YkCFRtCgQodLhCpFQ

HI--

You might still be able to get the timer if you want to replace it. All of the washer/dryer parts I've bought over the years have been in FSP (Factory Service Parts) packaging, even if purchased thru sears parts div. Sears may still list the timer, they will need the model number, etc.  You probably have independent appliance parts houses, (Greer Appliance around here) that may have it too, possibly for a little less than Sears.

Yes, appliances like washers have become very generic, and one machine may be branded with several different names. That was beginning to happen by the late 70's, and has gotten more common.  

Should you decide to check with Sears Parts, be sure to have all the info--model, serial, type, etc. ready. ALL of their info in on their computer; very little in their employees heads. They also have in internet parts site that I used to order half-nuts for my Craftsman (Atlas) lathe, made in the 50's.

Worth a try if you want to fix it.

73; Gary KD5CPL

Maytag-Whirlpool-Amana etc are pretty much the same according to the local dealer. I had multiple system failure with my 22 year old Maytag and it was just too costly to repair it. I bought a Fisher&Pakel washer. Its pretty funky and it uses less water and detergent and it spins at 1000RPM so the clothes dryer only works half the time to dry. So far so good but I hope I will get 22 years of service from it.         (http://usa.fisherpaykel.com/admin/images/prod_mugshots/Autowashers/gwl15-wh-us-ext_md.jpg)

whatever you buy, make sure that the XYL picks it out.

We finally had to replace our GE Washer and dryer we bought in 1975.  This was after years of service and replacing motors, belts, heating elements, etc. The pads for the dryer drum became unobtanium and I had been using those furniture moving pads modified to fit the brackets. they lasted forever. anyway, replaced both with the GE profile series. stainless steel drums, no agitator, water and energy efficient. only complaint so far is EMI put out by the PWM drive for the washer motor.

also recommend buying the extended in home service contract that takles over after first year. cost 90 bucks each for an added four years.

expensive, yes. I consider it like buying any other tool, you get what you pay for. and XYL loves them so I get no complaints on that side!

 "whatever you buy, make sure that the XYL picks it out. "

Let her pick it out, just make it so the dryer door doesn't get in the way when you try to load it from the washer....   Oh yeah, when you have natural gas available, dont let her buy a electric dryer...    klc

Our old Maytag crapped out about a year ago.  It had the heavy duty transmission and massive counterweight balance.  I had kept the thing going for over 25 years, but when the coils in the motor finally started smoking as the house fuse blew, decided it was time to retire it.

We ended up purchasing a new one from Sears Roebuck, per some appliance reviews on the internet.  So far it has worked without a problem, but its internal construction is much more  flimsy than the old Maytag, and I doubt it will last anywhere near as long.  The new Maytags are basically  the same as our Sears model.  It's that heavy duty transmission and counterweight that are missing in the newer models.

I never buy extended warranties.  I think  they average out to be a waste of  money.  If something has an obvious defect, it will likely crap out during the regular warranty period.  If not, the extended warranty period is calculated to fall short of the first likely long term failure.

What really pisses me off is that replacement parts for so many consumer items are discontinued just about the time the machine gets old enough that you might actually need to replace something.  I had to throw out a $750 vented kerosene room heater because a $5 part crapped out and I couldn't find a replacement - new or used - original or aftermarket - anywhere.  The guy at the parts house said, "well you shouldn't expect to find a part for that heater.  After all, it's over 15 years old"...  as if I would likely need a replacement part for one that was only three years old!

I love the look on a sales person who offers me an extended warranty and I ask them if what they're selling me is  junk and tell them I don't want it if I need another warranty.

1000 rpm spin dry, damn, hope it has a good off balance detector. I had
a pair of maytags that I kept going for 25+years. wound up giving them
to a landlord, as I had no place to store and they were at the rent site.
I have an super fast spin on mine, but don't use it, afraid it will break

This conversation got me to thinkin'.

We have these Kenmore Heavy Duty 70 series unit's and the date code looks like 1984. It's funny that that much time goes by, and you don't really think about replacing them with newer models.(unlike everything else in the house.) As long as they work every day, nobody is thinking about it.

I have a customer that owns a laundromat and I was there a while back to run some water lines for him. I had to move a couple of these coin op machines out of the way, and I'll tell you what, "NOTHING" can be that heavy, and be made cheaply. They were the size of a regular machine, and had the coin thing on top, but they had to weigh three times what a regular washer weighs, (and probably cost 3 times as much too). If you want something REALLY heavy duty, that would be the way to go. Just make sure your not home when the YL see's her new coin op washer/dryer set. Make sure you leave a roll of quarters on them.

The Gates BC1-F AM broadcast transmitter weighs in at 2900 lbs.  The BC1-T weighs in at 900 lbs.  Both rigs run a pair of 833A's modulated by another pair.  Go figure.

 It sounds like a small jet taking off. It has a off balance detector. After 3 trys it quits and beeps away. Hasen't done that yet. It really spins the water out so the dryer only has to run about half as long. Yes the XYL was the decider in the purchase.

One of the things that really pisses me off is when you have to buy something to replace something that you have been using for years and the new one that you buy is a real p.o.s. compared to the one that you had.  You tend to become complacent with the old one and its quality. The new one may have more frilly features, but you can instantly tell that it is a p.o.s. compared to the old one.
This is the miserable feeling of having to settle for less than what you had before.
I absolutely hate that!! I guess that is why I keep fixing stuff untill it is unfixable any more. The new is quite often nowhere as good as what you just threw away, and you definately know it will not last anywhere near as long!!

                                                                            The Slab Bacon

Oh, yea, that is why it NEVER hurts to stockpile the expendable parts while you can get them!! (I guess that is why I'm a packrat)

ALWAYS buy Sears.  You can ALWAYS (well, almost!) get spare parts easily and quickly.

The sears washer has a mechanical pa-kuter. It hangs up near the end of the last spin cycle and needs a little nudge to finish the spin. It is only a couple minutes so not a big deal.
The tranny looks like BW made it. It doesn't leak. I've only replaced the belt once. Maybe I will get another control and keep my fingers crossed. I think it is a model 80 form 1977.
Rob cool idea on the pads. I took the rollers out and put a bit of oil on the sleeve bearings but still a bit of rumble. Pads still there but getting thin.
The dryer seems fine just makes some noise. The idler roller is making a bit of noise so maybe the belt has streatched. The roller and pivit looked fine. Spring also seems ok.

Long story short:

Find the local REAL wholesale appliance parts distributor - not the one in the yellow pages, go there, talk the guys behind the counter, they know what's service-able and service free and what is not. Plus you can get almost any part you want...

But, the XYL, not me, owns a pair of Maytag Neptune machines.
Front Loaders, computer controlled washer. 3ph PWM control. Stainless drum. etc.
Great washer.

Except, it put Maytag out of business!
Yes, Maytag is gone.
Note, no Maytag ads on TV?
Whirlpool bought their assets and name.

They died because of the butte stupid and bad design of the controller board.
They die.
They apparently die without notice.
And, often cause the front door to spring open while washing.

Lost a BIG BIG Class Action lawsuit.

We found out about it a few months too late to collect when our 9 yr old machine's computer crapped out.
THREE boards later, I got one what worked.

Retail they want ~$300 per board, without installation.

Oh, hey - ever hear of a "Wax Motor"??
You would have if you owned a Maytag Neptune...  ::)
In case you haven't it's a solenoid that works by using a PTC to heat a vessel full of this wax that expands when heated. Why use a Wax Motor instead of a solenoid? It's cheaper.

Which is funny - the crapped out boards that is. Why?
Because I know they were paying a big engineering department beaucoup bux to design that thing.
That thing had next to ZERO isolation between the uproc and the driver transistors - apparently they never heard of opto-isolators, and anything resembling fail-safe designs where in the blow up state the thing doesn't dump water on the floor, etc... well anyhow transients zap the uproc and then it won't work properly, since the port that is driving the driver transistors that controls the functions is zapped. Duh. The funny part is that I can't get hired to sweep floors in places like that... but they can't design an "industrial control circuit" to save their lives, or in this case their company.

Well anyhow, afaik there are two main styles of top load washer mechanisms, the "GE" and the "Whirlpool" but neither, afaik, are made by either company. I think a company called Roper makes most of that stuff...

Parts like motors? The local high-volume appliance store has dumpsters full for the taking...
I like the GE style, they're ubiquitous and easy to fix, interchange a whole lot... the only problem that can't be fixed or isn't worth fixing is the bottom seal or the bearings...

           _-_-WBear2GCR

Ah ur just a pack of appliance operators!!  :D :D :D  ;)

New washers are better.   They get clothes cleaner, don't beat them up so much, use less water, less detergent and less electricity.  The leave much less water in the clothes so the dryer takes much less time. 

I have two sets of Neptune front loaders.   Like Bear I was surprised there was such a thing as a wax motor (failed).   Both machines needed new controller boards.   On one the diodes were blown clean off the board.   Vaporized. Impressive.   The controller board issue left me not so keen on Maytag.

If I were buying new now, I'd probably go with a Kenmore front loader.  Consumer reports is also keen on the LG, Whirlypool and Bosch front loaders.   If you want the ratings, I'll send them to you.

Jon

Victim of a voltage or lightning spike?

Victim of switching big inductive loads  carelessly.   Now that I think of it, it may have been MOSFET's that were vaporized.

Last month I had to replace an electric tank-type water heater that sprang a leak after 41 1/2 years.  Yes, it was a Monkey Wards unit installed in 1965.  I still have the yellowed paperwork that came with it.

I was going to replace it with one of those tankless on-demand heaters that run on gas, until I decided that would be biting off more than I could chew - with all the rerouting of plumbing, addition of gas pipes and regulator, vent pipe installation, plus the additional cost of the machine itself, and instead just bought a drop-in replacement.  I recall tankless were the only type of residential water heaters I ever noticed anyone using in Europe, because they are supposed to be much more energy efficient than maintaining a large tank full of hot water, whether or not you are using it.

The new heater works great, with a control panel that lets you instantly adjust temperature, you can put it in standby if you plan to be gone for a period of time at a setting that just keeps it warm enough to prevent freezing.  You can even program it to remember the time of day you habitually use the most water, and it will warm to a higher temperature than at other times of the day.

But that fancy control panel is all solid state, full of IC chips and transistors.  I have already gone through several cordless phones, several answering machines, one VCR and one computer within the past 5 years due to lightning zaps, so I am wondering how long that fancy electronic control unit can be expected to last.  At least with the other stuff, I could have avoided the problem by unplugging them, but with the water heater, it is hard wired to the 220v line, with no way to unplug it whenever there is a threat from a lightning storm - not that I would want to have to bother with that in any case.

Does anyone know if there is any kind of brute-force surge protector available, that would limit the voltage entering the house to maybe 150% of the normal peak until either the house wiring melted or the 200-amp fuse blew?  I'm not talking about one of those crappy MOV things that deteriorate with every surge, until they eventually fail to deliver any protection at all.

Frank,
You might want to apply good quality 1980's troubleshooting techniques:  Spray everything with WD40 until drops of oil start spitting out everywhere, bang strategic parts with a Ball Peen or body shop hammar (do not use a carpenters hammar - right tool for the right job), Spin all dials randomly with very quick abrupt motions, spray more WD40.  That should set you up.

Other than that I have a new set of Kenmores from 1991 and will be swapping them out this summer when I rebuild the bath/laundry room (only room for a stack).  Will trade radios for washer/dryer.

Tom
ILA

Tom,
The hammer and oil have been used.

Don, I just installed a GE electric heater with a 12 year guarantee. That was the best I could find. 41 years you must have soft water.

Who would think to unplug a washer and dryer that has an electronic control unit when a T-storm rolls through?  The microwave and oven here have electronic controllers but I never thought to pull them out and unplug them. To much of a PITA to do.  Guess I'll flip the breaker in the future.

We had a Fisher&Pakel washer and it had problems due to getting moisture in the electonics (possibly only once). It wasn't much but it caused corrosion in the push button switches and on some tracks in the control board. I cant figure how the moisture got in but it did.  After about the fourth local repair job I was informed we were buying a new machine.....
Apart from that it was an interesting design. Direct drive motor driven by mosfets (IRF 840s ?) heatsunk to the water inlet manifold.  I would have kept it for parts but you can fit a lot of electroic junk in the space of a washing machine.
                                                                    Ian VK3KRI

Guys,
Last night on "This Old House" they showed a whole house surge suppressor
at about $260 mounted on the breaker panel.

Here's an idea; replace all of the swtiches with heavy duty toggle switches mounted on a H.B. panel with some lights and a clock. Tell your kids it is an electronic game and when various lights illuminate they have to throw the toggle switch associated with that particular light. If they think it is a worthless game they will love it and play for hours. If they ever find out that it is actually performing a useful function they will drop it like a bad habit.

The Maytag's controlller board seemed to have died the first time due to a transient of some unknown origin on the power grid... it is in the City of smAlbany NY, and in that area there is mostly underground electric service, although not on evey block. So the source of the glitch is/was unknown. Could have been lightning.

The Wax motor did not die, afaik. I replaced the one on the door for good luck. They used them also for controlling the water inlet, etc... so why the others don't die, i dunno.

The controller transistor (no mosfets on the controller board) was fried as was its collector resistor... but that in turn fries the dedicated port on the microproc... no opto iso. Dummer and bummer.

She unplugs the washer when not in use now.

BUT who's to say that merely plugging it in, and out won't kill it??!!!  ??? ???

Well I have a back up board that does EVERYTHING except FINISH THE CYCLE!!
I mean, how wierd is that??
It will just sit there on the final "idle out spin" rocking back and forth a bit forever...
Set urself a timer and be sure to get back to the machine eventually... well it is a back-up.

See, the "timer" on these units, isn't. It actually would run through the entire cycle in about 30 seconds, if you left the power on it all the time. But that's not how it works, it is powered up by the microprocessor, then it runs to the next function, where the (duh) microprocessor senses that it has started a new function and turns OFF the stupid "timer" motor!! BUT the timer doesn't really power anything big like it used to... the microprocessor turns the motors on and off and determines their speed... the "timer" was just to keep old time housewives happy!!

Well... fun fun fun...

           _-_-WBear2GCR

I replaced mine with a Whirlpool, also with a 12 year guarantee.  They had a cheaper model with only a 5 or 6 year guarantee, and a slightly more expensive model with a stainless steel tank and a lifetime guarantee.  But the stainless steel model had a larger tank capacity than we needed.  You should never use an oversize tank, since you are wasting energy to heat more water than you actually use, and the wasted money over a lifetime would easily pay for a replacement heater.

I don't think our water is particularly soft.  We  have galvanised steel pipes, and I have noticed when working on the plumbing that there is plenty of crud buildup inside the pipes.  We have another heater that runs off gas, and we have already had to replace it because it sprang a leak after about 8 years.

Wow Don, Stainless good find. I wish i could have grabbed that one as long as it is real stainless. There is a lot of foreign crap stainless floating around. We have a mil contract that states stainless hardware made in the USA only.