The AM Forum

Here's a memory maker
Does anybody remember when the local telephone company monitored how many telephones were on the line? This is berfore the sale of telephone sets to the public. They had a way to measure the line and determine how many ringers were on your line. If you "came across" a telephone set it was advisable to disconnect the ringer.

Fred

Or put a neon bulb across where the ringer was.

Ok, this was all before my memory,  but its interesting that we put up with such a draconian monopoly!

-Jason kf6pqt

Black boxes, Blueboxes, W.A.T.S. lines, tape recorded coin tones for coin phones AND the old D.C. blocking cap in series with the line. Yes, I remember a few things about Ma Bell 8)

Not that long ago; most of us have rigs older than when this was active.
If I remember correctly, it was done actively up to the mid 70’s. With the coming of divestiture, and the telephone new world order, the cry going forward was “buy your phone”, since, prior to divestiture, the majority of all phones were leased. In the past I also believe, that when a new phone was assigned to a residence, measured impedance was recorded between the switch and the residence. When that impedance varied by some “X” amount, it was either “trouble with the line” or a “non-approved attachment”. “Ma Bell” wanted their money for anything additionally attached to the line.

Even I got called on the carpet by my Director, when a homebrew phone patch I made developed a shorted diode in a full-wave bridge I had across the line to drive a relay. Impedance on the line dropped dramatically causing a trouble ticket to be generated to investigate the problem. My understanding was that it was a common practice to check residence name with some sort of Bell System employee list especially if a “non-approved device” was suspect. Many corporate executives back in the day were also not very supported of ham radio phone patches.

My phone line had a "wet condition".

My phone line runs thru a tree. literally. I have a phone line taking a short cut across the back corner of the lot that a tree grew it's way up to over the years. The tree happened to crotch right below the line, then over the years as it got taller, the crotch grew right around the line. It's been getting pretty high lately, so I called the telco to come out and check it out. The service man came out, took one look, and say's, "Oh yeah, that's fine. Call us back when it snaps the line and we'll put up a new run after you cut down the tree." (What do you mean, WHEN I cut down the tree? Your damn line is running thru MY property. You people can move YOUR line, not my tree.) He left shortly after that rant.

So far, no static on the phone, even when it's windy. But, I'm sure it won't be long now.

I get along great with everybody. >:(

Manufacturer's still include the REN on the back of newer phones even though it may not be much of an issue these days.

Remember Ma Bell's phones and how they were built like tanks and were virtually indestructable?

As an old telephone company veteran (GTE/Verizon), I do not disagree with the assessment that things were a little ridiculous back in the days of "no foreign attachments on the line".  I will, however, say that all the changes brought about by de-regulation and re-regulation have certainly not entirely benefited the consumer.  Many of the changes have benefited big business and high volume users, but have had some negative impact on residential customers.  Competition, and resulting cost-cutting have reduced the level of customer service to an alarming level in a number of areas.  Just try talking to a real person sometime, when trying to call-in trouble or inquire about service.  Don't you just love those voice answering systems and accompanying multi-layer menus?  It may be argued that a lot of the advancements that have occurred over that last 22 years since divestiture have certainly improved the options available, but there have been a number of fall-outs as well.  One can't help but wonder if government meddling sometimes does a lot more harm than good.  I still believe that market forces are the best way to regulate any business.  What we did get was thousands of displaced workers in the telecommunications industry and a redistribution of wealth in the name of "competition".  The industry was turned upside down and many suppliers, as well as service providers went "belly-up".

Even more astounding is the fact that all the "baby Bells" created by divestiture in 1984 are now merging and re-combining and creating a reincarnation of MA BELL.  Hmmmmm.......what is wrong with this picture?  Why did the government force the split to start with, if they were just going to allow them to recombine?  Maybe heavily-regulated "monopolies"  and the "universal service concept" were not all that bad to start with????

I think that there will always be some need for land-line telephone service, but we will see more and more people opting for wireless service to replace their home phones.  I was intimately involved with the early licensing and development of cellular systems (early 80's), and I remember then that I predicted that wireless would someday assume the position of being the primary telephone service for the majority of customers.  Looks like that could be happening one day soon.

73,  Jack, W9GT

Re recombination, the same thing happened with the oil industry.  Back at the turn of the 19th/20th century, one company, Standard Oil was split into several companies.  Amongst them were what eventually become Exxon and Mobil.  Now those companies have re-merged, and I think one or more other spin-offs of the old Standard Oil Co. have joined the Conglomeration.

Yes, I remember the "no foreign attachments" days.  I always had several bootleg extensions, and merely disconnected the ringers in the extra phones and it was never questioned.  Even the phones themselves in those days were "bootleg" because they were Bell Tel property, distinctly marked "not for sale."  When phones were retired from service, the company collected them for scrap and recycled all the materials inside.  That's why antique phones from the 30's and 40's are so rare.  The only ones still in existence were "stolen property."  But you could always find working phones for a few bucks each in antique shops, second-hand stores and flea markets.

My philosophy on "bootleg" extensions was that one paid for phone service 24/7, and that no matter how many extensions you had, you could still only carry on one conversation at a time on that line, so nothing was being "stolen" from Ma Bell except the monthly fee they wanted to charge for each extra phone.

The only time the phone co. ever got on my case about "foreign attachments" was the rf filter I put on my mother's phone because my ham rig blasted her out is she was using the phone while I transmitted on AM.  In those days, the phone line used three wires, the red, yellow and green.  The only effective filter I ever came up with was to put a 2.5 mHy transmitting type rf choke in series with each wire.

One day the phone went dead, so she called repair service.  They came out to check, and evindently the surges from a T-storm the night before had opened up every one of those chokes.  The serviceman started griping and bitching when he saw what the trouble was and warned me to "never put that thing back on the line again."

As soon as he left, I found 3 more rf chokes and replaced the filter.  Afterwards, whenever the lightning zapped an rf choke, I just replaced it, after instructing my mother to always let me know if the phone went dead, before calling repair service.

Here's a snipet off the web from 4 years ago on the 20 year anniversary of the Bell System breakup:

"It was 20 years ago that AT&T, the once-mighty "Ma Bell," was broken up on the order of Judge Harold H. Greene of the U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C.

Since the break-up, consumers have had a staggering array of choices for local and long-distance phone service, they've been able to buy their own telephones, hook up fax machines, modems and other devices and they've been presented with a multitude of new services, including cellular service, DSL and even Internet and cable-based telephony.

All this choice is no doubt what Judge Greene, who died four years ago, would have wanted. His ruling, after all, was based on a finding that AT&T had such a stranglehold on all aspects of the telephone business that newcomers like MCI weren't able to compete on a "level playing field," a phrase that has since become a standard verse in every lobbyists' litany."

Without the breakup, anything you would have wanted hooked to the line would require permission, approval, and monthly pay-back to AT&T.

All this and .........now lets just allow the Bell companies to recombine.  Doesn't really make a lot of sense.  In the name of competition, the whole industry was nearly destroyed.  ::)

Seems like this whole scenario demonstrates the LAW of Unintended Consequences.  At least the lawyers got rich....seems like they always benefit from these things.

73,  Jack, W9GT

"now lets just allow the Bell companies to recombine"

New rules, new managements, and all the "fat" has been cut away. These types of company mergers generally are done to capitalize on each other's  market areas strengths.

"In the name of competition, the whole industry was nearly destroyed"

Many of these these companies tried to play in all telcom markets, even in markets where they had no strengths. Crappy management generally rolls into crappy results. Many of the local telcoms that sprung up after the breakup ran their entire existance on credit fumes. Many of the larger telcom suppliers sold billlions of stuff on credit and many with the option to return the goods if they weren't sold within some time frame. Unfortunately, the crash came all but too abruptly, leaving many caught with their pants down. In the late 90's, I junked millions of new telcom goods and raw materials. Inventories were so high, that it was costing more to store than what you could make in real cash flow.

Lawyers are like funeral directors; there’s always going to be a market for their services

                              We don't care, we dont have to.... We're the phone company.

Back in the mid-60s I built a phone interconnect which used a transformer which was capacitively coupled to the line.  The problem, unbeknownst to me, was that the inductance of the transformer and the capacitance of the capacitor created a series-resonant shunt that sucked out the ring signal.

So of course I went about my business with the thing connected to the line, but then my sister or my mom noticed that incoming calls were not being received, and they called the phone company.  Of course my interconnect was discovered, and I heard about it from my dad.

Fortunately, although my dad was never a ham, he was a former Merchant Marine radioman and a former TV repairman (I remember touching the plate cap of an active horizontal sweep tube at age two when he wasn't looking.  Never did THAT again...) and a electronic-tech writer for a government contractor.  He didn't like me making trouble for him with the phone company, but he was pleased with my technical progress.

Pete, if you had been part of the so called "fat" that was eliminated or displaced, you might not have such a cavalier attitude toward the upheaval of the industry.  I freely admit that the telephone companies needed to be shocked into reality and become reasonable in their approach to competition, however, the wholesale de-reg/re-reg of the business and forced dismantling of a long successful and superior communications structure (compared to the rest of the world) was not necessarily well thought out.  This, unfortunately,  is what you get when you allow government entities that are not technically well-versed and are not ncecessarily motivated by anything other than politics and/or legal manuevering to have such total authority over a highly complicated and sophisticated industry.  I was in Washington, D.C. in 1983 and I personally saw a group of attorneys wearing freshly printed sweatshirts that said "I helped kill MA BELL".  That was eye-opening to say the least.....was it really in the best interest of our country?................I'm not sure!

Also, please don't confuse the start-up "competing companies"  with the LECs (Bell and existing Independent companies) who built the industry over many decades and then were forced to compete with one hand tied behind their backs and to give away their services to those who wanted to compete with them.  It was not an "even playing field" , it was a disaster....and, in my opinion, still is.  As I said before, the consumer didn't necessarily benefit, but the lawyers definitely did!

73,  Jack, W9GT

The choices we have today are nice.  The fact that we can connect things is nice, and I think our bills would be higher without the breakup.  But it's true, quality of service, both assistance from telco reps and the function of the infrastructure, has deteriorated dramatically.

As for the foreign devices, Pete I think you're right.  My mother's entire family before her worked for Western.  Her two uncles were fairly high up as far as I could tell from their standards of living.  One worked in Kearny, the other was an electrical engineer by training and worked in NYC.  Over the years I would hear them discussing adding phones to their houses.  Both lived in large houses with one desk phone each.  They were too cheap to PAY for extensions and it was very obvious they did not want to deal with the ramifications at work of having illegal phones. 

The family had this idea I would follow the family footsteps and go to work for Western.  To say they were displeased that I did not would be an understatement.  Funny though, in 1984 I'd have been unemployed.  Instead in 2005 I was collecting a pension.

I was there for it all; i.e. Bell Labs, American Bell, AT&T (in all it’s variations), NCR, Lucent. As the Company(s) rolled and changed, I had to re-invent my skills, processes, ways of doing business with customers, how I saw my future in the business, etc. numerous times. It was a wild ride, with lots of ups and downs, but I don’t regret having been part of it. Businesses and markets were begging for changes to move forward, and the breakup was one major step in getting the ball rolling. Unfortunately, de-regulation also brings upon the business world a lot of other problems that many corporate managers and business owners were not capable of handling properly.


I wasn't confusing them. In my opinion the LEC's were milking the industry for years. De-regulation forced them to now come to terms with their own balance and financial sheets by standing on their own two feet. Some did and thrived; others rolled up quickly and faded into dust. It bcomes an "even playing field" if you can quickly figure out how to play in the "field". Unfortunately customer demands and business models over the last 25 years have changed continually as technologies advance forward. In order to stay profitable, businesses also have to continually re-invent themselves with mergers, acquisitions, offshore manufacturing, downsizing, etc.

IMHO, the biggest loss in the break-up of Ma Bell was the research at Bell Labs which I understand doesn't exist today.     'Course, it was their fault that everything's solid state these day...guess we could blame them for rice boxes.   ;) :P

I guess the whole idea of pure corporate research is considered pretty quaint today.  What!  Spend money for reasearch just for resarch?  Egad!  The stockholders will hand us our heads when they see what that does to our quarterly report!   :-\

I remember in '78 when I got new service to my place.  I went to the Bell telephone store (?)(!), signed up for service, and they handed me a phone.  Told me to plug it in after the guy installed the line.  Yikes!   :)

But, back in the good ol' days, if you wanted to connect something like a phone patch, you could always pay Ma Bell for the "connection box." and that would make it "legal."

Oh, but today we have the benefit of strangers calling us up to inform us of the wonderful things they have to sell.  Which is why I got rid of my landline...I got tired of having 99 junk phone calls to wade through to get to the one useful message.

BTW...you telephone guys...inside the telephone case there were the dial, the bell, and a box with screw terminals.  In modern 60's phones the box was approx, 2x2.5.3 inches?  That's a very rough guess.  In the generation of phones just before that the box with screw terminals was long and skinny, mabe with two cylinders.  (Long time ago, the memory is dim.)  What was that?

Reminds me of the time I called up the phone company repair service to see if I could get a schematic of a telephone.  Must have made that operator's day!   ;D

I think you are talking about the hybrid. It took the two incoming wires that contained both the transmit and receive audio and separated (or combined, depending on how you want to look at it) them out, one going to the mouth piece and one to the earpiece. It also included the circuitry for the sidetone (sending a little bit of the transmit audio to the earpiece, so you could hear yourself talk), and maybe some circuitry for compensating for the distance to the CO.

Reasearch at Bell Laboratories still exists today. But, there has to a plan, time frame, and destination.
For lots of info, go here:
http://www.bell-labs.com/


Need phone schematics for some phone products, go here:
http://64.143.172.245/telephones.html

If you really want to take a step back into the Bell System, go here:
http://64.143.172.245/

Steve -

The time frame was about '61, 62 before touch-tone.  But I think I've heard about the hybrid before.  The thing that confuses me about that is that you could take just a handset and put in on the line and it would work.   ???

Pete -

It's cool that there's still research going on, but is it the kind that will lead to a transistor, or unix, or the C language, or the background radiation from the big bang?  It's my impression that that kind of pure research isn't happening.  Or am I wrong?

Interesting perspective on the research scene here.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060724-7340.html

Depends on who's doing the funding for research.

In today's world, AT&T Labs is not Bell Laboratories. Bell Laboratories is owned by Lucent.

BTW, is your "CWA" the Communications Workers of America?

It could be any number of acronyms. However, I never use the one you mentioned.
Some Common ones:
Clean Water Act
Concerned Women for America
Communications Workers of America
Closed World Assumption
Civil Works Administration
California Waterfowl Association
Contract With America
County Warning Area
Clean Water Action
CEN Workshop Agreement
Country Women's Association
Chemical Warfare Agents
Championship Wrestling Association
Constant Wattage Autotransformer
Construction Writers Association
Catch Wrestling Association
Center Weather Advisory
Czech Wrestling Association
California Workforce Association
Common Work Area
Canadian Welding Association
Central Water Authority
Charlotte Woodworkers Association
Crackers With Attitude
County Welfare Agency
Customer Web Access
Cat Writers' Association
Cape Wind Associates
Contract Work Authorization
Clean Work Area
Caution Warning Advisory
Central Wisconsin Airport
Controlled Work Area
California Warehouse Association
Caribou Woodlot Association
Coordinator of Welfare and Attendance
Cadet Wing Adjutant
Cold Wall Abated
California Warehousing Associates
Caution and Warning Annunciation

:) ;) ;D :P

Backstreet Boys

(http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/villagestreetwear_1915_20635534)

Actually I would prefer it that  way. I would like to pay for every phone, fax, and modem that I attach to the system.Hey look, its their system.If I want to use it then they have every right to charge me extra for whatever I attach.

They are still doing some interesting stuff at Bell labs (Lucent). Check the research and resources on

http://www.bell-labs.com

I think theres some info on past, present stuff going on there.

Yup
I remember the handset trick. If you were good you could tap out the telephone number, by "grounding out" the line.  
How about the pay phone? There was a time that you could unscrew the mouthpiece and "ground" the connector and you could get a free call............haaa haaaa.
NOW I know why people calling me on a cellphone are blasting out my ears. THERE'S NO SIDETONE on a CELLULAR PHOME, so they are talking in a loud voice.
Fred

Bell Labs first mobile radio telephone in 1924:

(http://www.bell-labs.com/history/75/newimages/wireless-then.jpeg)

Something I noticed about phone calls lately, a lot of calls, especially telephone support services, e.g. Dell Computer, have way too little audio.  I have to listen very hard to hear what they're saying.  Sometimes I have to ask them to speak up and that helps for about two seconds, then I straining to hear again.  It's bad enough when you have to talk to India and have an accent problem without having to deal with an inferior technical system.  Grrrrr  >:(

Not to mention you have to go threough the whole intro and review of your personal information, etc, etc,etc. each and every time you call in,

I am not happy with Dell despite the fact that I own three of their machines at home. While their prices on consumer oriented machines is not bad their motherboard tend to be low end and lacking features.  Also, many of their add-on's, i,.e sound cards, video cards are OEM versions made specifically for dell and that can be probematic when trying to match up drivers, etc.

And something I noticed lately.  It's time to upgrade my laptop if  I want to play the latest games, so I priced gaming laptops (>2Ghz, 256M current video) and at first glance Dell is about a grand higher than HP or Sony.  Granted, their service is top-notch, but I'm not sure it's worth an extra kilo-buck