The AM Forum

Rivalry between hams and Cher?s? It?s where I got my start in the mid 60?s

https://e-norge.com/2025/03/27/why-the-rivalry-between-cbers-and-hams-if-most-cbers-are-hams/

I started off as a cb'er. But my dad quickly waved the ham radio carrot in front of me by buying gear and having it sit there UNTIL I got my license. Once I got my ticket, I never turned my CB radio on again.

I think a lot of hams look at CB'ers as Outlaws. Before the FCC modded the rules not to require a CB license, EVERY CB'er on the air was operating without one. Add to that, the CB'ers that are running 5000 watt amplifiers.

For the CB'ers, they mostly think Hams are nerds and outcasts.

I don't think there is a rivalry at all,unfortunately, just a lack of respect on both sides.

CBers are doing a lot more than 5 grand.

3CW100000 is currently being built.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

WP2ASS said:That's just insane! 8)

With that kind of power you can be a Mother Trucker and talk over anyone!

I confess to having been a CB op back when it became a fad in the 70s. Had the Class D license like many of my friends back then.  Eventually, 11m became overcrowded locally and turned into like what various social media is today, a cesspool.  A couple of years later (1979) I had my Novice license.  I never looked back at CB until some of my coworkers several years ago were talking about it and were active in their area.  They convinced me to get on 11m.  I tried but I was too far away from them.  Recently, I have been on 11m with 12watts talking on slop bucket to the folks across the pond.  One thing is for certain, the audio quality of my old CB rig stinks. It's tin can quality. It is so unpleasant compared to my Yaesu HF radio.  11m is like living in a hotel for a week or so. Coming back to 15m and 10m is like being at home.

as far as a rivalry goes, I don't think there is much of one.  You hear each side complain about the other but the complaints are few and far between.

I got involved with CB when I went to work at a NJ Lafayette Radio back in the early years. Customer interest was exploding and they needed someone in the CB department who knew and understood some of the technical communication aspects CB and amateur radio (had my license for several years) plus, I was in college and needed beer money.

It was a very fun experience and I got to play with every CB rig that Lafayette came out with. Plus, I remember a number of customers were very interested in the technical aspects of CB radio and always came in to Lafayette on Saturdays to wander around and ask technical and antenna questions.

Why not make it a three-way rumble and include the GMRS jockeys?

I also had a CB, which required a full school term of high grades (an amazing accomplishment for me) in order for it to appear under the Christmas tree. One of the selling points was that it would allow me to talk with my friends without tying up the phone line since they too made lofty promises of high grades and other sacrifices to get their CBs. I also learned, quickly, about using capacitors to filter my transmissions from the living room stereo speakers.

I remember the fun we had each night (after homework was done, of course) talking about dopey kid stuff. Incredibly, that radio has been plugged in ever since and continues to display the time faithfully in bright red LED numbers.

There may be a rivalry between Part 95 and Part 97 operators, but if there is, the banter is within the groups. While there's mostly chaos skipping in on The Superbowl (CB channel 6), it's not as though hamateur radio lacks our own Jurassic Parks. 7200 comes to mind. Also, I frequently hear some very civilized conversations on CB while tuning around. I have no idea where these ops are because there are no callsigns, but it does show that CB isn't a complete write-off as some might claim.

  Back in the 70's and 80's, when I was active on that band, our group never used any cornball lingo or profanity, and the subject of most of our conversations was...just as it is with most of us on 75 and 40 meter AM...radios, microphones, and antennas. Add ham callsigns, and you wouldn't know the difference. I have a lot of fond memories of those days, and I likely wouldn't be a ham today if it weren't for CB.
   Your TRC-457 is a true classic, and cost nearly as much as some ham rigs back in the day. The meters, as I recall, lit up red on transmit; a nice touch.

There is some civilized chit chat on the upper sideband channels.  Here in CT channel 39 seems fairly active with a variety of ops all across the state during the early evening hours and sometimes into the later evening hours. I think some of these guys are either running way more than 12 watts or have superior antenna setups or both to cover some of the distances they are covering.

For me as well, if it wasn't for CB and my first Heathkit catalog, I probably would not have been licensed as early as I was. I didn't build any amateur gear from Heathkit. At the age of 13 (1973) I was into music and stereo and I wanted a small stereo system like my friends had so I wouldn't use my fathers audio system.  I saved all my money up for one of those all in one compact systems. I was ready to go to Two Guys and buy one when my father convinced me to save some more and buy components instead and at the same time in an effort to pique my interest in electronics to build a kit. The family stereo system didn't have anything for receiving radio so my first kit was an FM stereo tuner. My father taught me how to solder. For 3 weeks 1 hour a night, I built various sections of the tuner.  My father would go over my work and make sure I followed the instructions which I did.  In the end, I had a working FM stereo tuner. The 2 of us stayed up until 3AM listening to all sorts of cool FM radio stations. Remember that Heathkit catalog?

After that was done, I drooled over the Heathkit catalog and stumbled up amateur radio gear.  I had no idea what it was but found it intriguing. Off to the library.  Not much info back then but it was always in the back of my mind.  

I was a gas jockey at one of the local gas stations when I turned 16. One of the regulars who was friends of the owner always got fuel there had a couple of antennas on his car. One day he was chatting with someone. So I asked him what kind of CB he had. I was very impressed how clear the other person sounded.  He said he didn't have a CB but 2 meter ham radio. He told me how he was trying to get my boss to get licensed.  A year or more goes by and I think it was the fall of 1978, I saw a posting on the bulletin board at the local library about amateur radio classes. In early 1979 I was licensed as a novice and my first rig was an HW-101. Somewhere between all that I lost interest in CB. Girls got thrown into the mix too.

I not only have my first CB radio. I also have the FM tuner and matching amp but also have my first amateur rig, the HW-101. All still work.

When I started there was 11 meters.

It doesn't go away because it's populated by another group.

11 meter band ||||| CB Band   ???  What's in a Name    ???

Years ago, we had the 3885 KHz Calling Frequency   ??? ??? Now it and the frequencies around it are called the AM Getto  |||| On 75, Life Goes On!

"Keep AM amateur radio in the ghetto where it belongs!"
Fans of classic print science-fiction will get the reference. ;)

Oh man, Two Guys.

All the way until he passed, my grandfather would quote 4 year old me (discreetly begging) "Teo Guys Got Good Trains!!!!)

All i wanted was an HO train set.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

I hate to hear CB jargon on the ham bands!

For me it was the HO cars. They had a good hobby department.

10-4 on that but on the flip side. I wonder big time, if CB?ers hate to hear ham jargon on the CB channels. Some of it can be as dumb as a rusty nail in the pocket.
Catch you down the road.
7 trees

Hi Hi

   Heard on a local 2-meter repeater one morning on the way to work: a guy signs off with "catch you all on the flip," and some popinjay jumps all over the guy with "we don't use CB lingo on ham radio!"
   And then, a few minutes later, Mr. Popinjay himself signs off with "I'm destinated." Yeah, our corny lingo is much better than their corny lingo.
   Is being "destinated" painful? Is it accompanied by gas and bloating, or maybe burning and itching around the nether parts? Maybe Preparation-H would help.

People that bash radio services are just as stupid as the idiots that bash one operating system  vs another.

I have Linux, real XENIX, windows and an ancient os/2 system here.  Just like I have ham radio and cb here.

If you bash one service over the other, your a moron

I've found just as many technological conversations on cb as I have utter goddam morons on the ham bands.

Sure, idiots abound.  It's all who YOU associate with.

--Shane
Wp2ass / ex KD6VXI

Yep, I remember Two Guys as well!  Wasn?t the full name of the store Two Guys From(somewhere in NJ)?  Can?t recall the name of the town.

On the subject of the thread I?m somewhat annoyed at the creeping inroads of CB jargon on the ham bands, especially ?personal here is?, ?running 500 whiskeys?, and especially calling anything not a mobile a ?base station?.  Even seen the base station term in ads in QST.

Why are my punctuation marks all screwed up?  I know I typed them as quote marks originally and keep trying to change them back from the question marks that keep showing up when I repost after editing.  I?m using Safari browser on an iPhone 16 Pro Max.

I equate CB with breaking the rules!  Used to be that a ham license was difficult to get and hams followed the rules vs cb.

What store did you work at? For me, the Central Ave store in Newark was my favorite because I didn?t drive and the Public Service bus didn?t go to Paramus. I wish Newark had the amateur radio area like Paramus had. FWIW, the Newark store is a parking lot today. A trip to Lafayette always included walking up the hill to Aaron Lippmann electronics.

Seems we had several interests in common.
Two Guys, originally called Two Guys from Harrison, just down the street from the RCA tube factory in Harrison NJ where my mom worked.

Those HO Aurora cars. Just decided to clean mine up and they are going to be sold off. Can?t believe the prices they are bringing!

I still have my first CB rig, a Lafayette HB-444/25A. A few years ago I restored it, and while it works, I haven?t made any good buddy contacts. Back in the mid 60?s I always wanted a CourierRoyale, but $249 was a lot of money. A few years ago I walked in to Wayne Electronics and he had a Royal, with a D104 for sales as is for $60. It was in rough shape, but I had to buy it. It?s back on the air, next to my HB-444.

Might be interesting getting these on 10m

  One of the first hams I met, an old Extra Class with decades of experience, also illegally ran his Yaesu FT-101 on CB. A ham radio shop here in Connecticut, owned and run by hams, did a brisk business back in the 70's and 80's selling CB amps and modifying CB rigs for illegal frequencies, right over the counter. The old "S9" CB magazine used to love to jab back at the amateur radio community by reporting on FCC enforcement actions in which Extra Class hams were busted for running excessive power or transmitting out of band. Maybe that's why a lot of CB'ers equate hams with puffed-up arrogance sprinkled liberally with hypocrisy.
  But of course we all know that hams follow the rules. ;D

We had a few of those here in NJ. One of the ?ringleaders? on 7.200 was a former coworker of mine. He got busted, and saved his butt by turning in the shops who were doing similar work. The sad thing is that he only went deeper down the rabbit hole, and did some jail time for harassing the wrong person on 7.200.

Ah, yes, 7.200 and 3.910; monuments to the superiority of hams over CB'ers. The group on 3.910 at one time referred to themselves collectively as "scumbag radio."

I had several of the HB-444/25's including 25A's and 25'B. I also remember finding a Courier Royale at the old Ramapo Mountain Hamfest when it was on Oak St. in Oakland, NJ. I think I paid $20 bucks for it.
The triple 4's and the Courier eventually went to Dayton and found new homes.

I see your triple 4's meter is showing the eventual crystallizing of the meter face. Was a common problem. I sold all the triple 4 meters I had in stock to a collector down in VA years ago.

Wow, one has a range boost and the other a range extender! wonder what they did?

I started part-time (was college freshman) at 139 W. 2nd St., Plainfield, NJ. They needed someone with some technical knowledge to work the CB and Amateur Dept. Thursday nights (when they were open late) and all day Saturday. There was an appliance store next to Lafayette, and area above the Lafayette store housed a garment shop of some sort.
The Lafayette store at this location now is a parking lot.

I also had the pleasure for 2 years, at roughly 6 months each time, to work at the Union Square store, NYC. All the employees from this store came from the original Lafayette store at 100 6th Ave. It was a Union shop so I couldn't handle the sale to completion (write the receipt, take the money, etc.) but I learned a lot from these salespeople.

In 1972, the Plainfield store moved to Route 22W, Watchung, NJ. Modern facilities, more room, better lighting, adjacent parking lot, and a lot more store traffic. I actually missed the grand opening because I was on my honeymoon up in Cape Cod.

After our service technician left abruptly (roughly some time in 1973), I took over all the service work for our store, plus, when asked, also did service support for the East Brunswick, Union, and Totowa stores and several times even for the Newark store. This stuff was done part-time - pickup stuff needing repair, take it home and repair it, bring it back repaired to the store where I picked it up. By this time, I was working full-time for Bell Telephone Laboratories in Holmdel.

When Chapter 11 closed in and most of the Lafayette stores in NJ were ordered to close, All service parts, cannibalized equipment, stuff that didn't have a stock number or identifier would either to put to dumpster or to me. Paramus store remained open, so for the next several years, I handled whatever Lafayette service work came into that store.  


When I was younger and just a few months earlier got my General, went to Lafayette in Newark. Mom like to shop in Newark (we lived in Rahway, NJ) so one day we took the train (mom didn't drive) to Newark, and in the course of shopping around, walked over to Lafayette at 24 Central Ave.
I bought a NE-30 neon bulb.The receipt has been in between the pages of my 1960 main Lafayette catalog since then. The date on the receipt is June 16, 1960.

Also in between the pages of the Lafayette 1960 catalog, I found an original IHOP menu with a date of 1962. The print in this thing is so small, it can double as an eye chart.

Diodes and some circuitry to provide clipping. For that really added ear-piercing sound, flip the switch on and yell into your D-104 or Turner +2 or +3.

Probably some incompatibility from this site:
MKPortal
M1.1.1 ©2003-2006
AND
what you said: "I?m using Safari browser on an iPhone 16 Pro Max"

edit: look my quotes work  - didn't the typical "smartphone" of today start to appear around 2008 and I'm using a desktop computer

HERE's A THOUGHT

Go to QSO
Create a new topic or thread using your smartphone
In the post, enter each one of your punctuation marks as it appears on your smartphone screen.
When done, click PREVIEW to see which ones changed on the preview screen.
If they look OK on the preview, save it, and it becomes a real post.
Let's see what happens, and if anything changes after it posts.

This is cool, hearing about Two Guys.  Being a west coast brat, I didn't know they where nationwide!

Don't have many trains now, most where lost or stolen over the years.

I did get my uncles N scale christmas train.  I remember him setting it up every year.   The first year I had it after he passed I couldn't keep the clears out of my eyes while I played with it.   Felt like I was 4 again lol.

Ya forget how much fun model trains are.....  Until you take a good hiatus and come back.

Kind of like slot cars.

And ham radio.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

Three way? lets also include FRS on the applicable frequencies (LOL channels) and the way some GMRS persons have no respect for them, run their full juice of 5W or even a 20-50W mobile they've programmed on the FRS channels and 'step' on the weaker 1/2W FRS signals. Then it's a 4-way.

Don't forget MURS either! Now there is a very nice service that almost no one uses, and being VHF it has its own advantages, and it's also 2 Watts.

LOL it's a bootlegger circus. How many rings?
1.) ham
2.) CB
3.) FRS (overlaps GMRS)
4.) GMRS (overlaps FRS)
5.) MURS
6.) 49MHz toy walkie talkies  - may as well throw in the kitchen sink for those stinkers!
7.) Marine Radio - oh yes these VHF things can be heard far inland on rare occasion.
6.) any old radios on other services, as-found or crystalled up on whatever was convenient.

As far as jargon, I don't like to use it on any service. I prefer phonetics and prowords. Some CB jargon could be considered CB prowords hehe


Mr. Popinjay LOL!  = the Ham Radio Police!

some of my CB friends were jealous that I had channel "22A" on my radio. I found it on the channel selector by accident when I heard others talking between channels 22 and 23 at the top of the detent.

There was enforcement on the ham bands and infractions were relatively rare.  Not so CB and it continues!

   The operative word there is "was." There hasn't been serious enforcement on the amateur bands for decades; it's no less anarchy than CB, and has been that way for decades. I remember back when I got my ham ticket in 1993, and listened to 3.910 for the first time. More filthy language than I ever recall hearing on CB; deliberate jamming; playing of music; threats of violence, and now 7.200 is largely the same. I must have missed all this "enforcement" that was going on.

My Lafayette HB-444/25A had 22A & 22B. Theybwere designated as the HELP (highway emergency locating plan) channels. I don't think they were ever implemented. On some of the non23 channel radios, like HE-20D, we used to reverse the transmit and receive crystals. I never figured out where we were transmitting but it was a local private channel.

   There were five of those "A" channels, as I recall, each 10khz above its "primary" channel: 3A, 7A, 11A, 15A, and 19A. Regular CB channels 23, 24, and 25 are numbered out of sequence, as far as the usual 10khz incremental spacing, so that channels 24 and 25 lay between channels 22 and 23. That weird layout led to some interesting confusion. Back then, I was the big loud signal in town, being up on one of the highest hills in the area, and when I would use channel 24, a group occupying channel 22 would get all torqued off, thinking my signal was wider than it actually was, since channel 24 is actually closer to channel 22 than channel 23. So, not understanding the actual channel layout, those guys would attempt to interfere with me by moving from channel 22 to channel 23, thinking that they were getting closer to my frequency when in fact they had moved farther away, thus solving both of our problems.

Love the IHOP Menu, looks like a patch from the old International Geophysical Year or the "Man from UNCLE" show.

The HELP channels were touted by both retailers and manufacturers and good vibe from FCC. Some manufacturers started including them in their designs with an easy way to put them into operation when FCC officially approved. When it came to final FCC approval, FCC killed it.

Above the CB band at 27.430, 27.450, 27.470, 27.490, 27.510, and 27.530 MHz are channels for the Business Radio Service. Around the same time, this service was moved to VHF and then later to UHF frequencies.

In 1965 Poly-Comm marketed the Poly-Comm B Business Band transceiver.

In 1966, Lafayette introduced the HB-600, 25 channel, 23 CB channels plus choice of 2 business channels.

There was also the Polycomm N.   The N was for Nuvistor, because it was New.   

Still much prefer my D201 and D201A to the rest.  They sound amazing, especially when outfitted with the 6550 or KT88 in place of the EL34 audio tube (with bias mod done).

Pure symphony.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

Heard a couple of CB'ers on 28.475 running AM today.  One operating mobile from TX had spurs up and down the band. NASA quality audio at 10 over S9.

Polycomm had a number of CB models in production at one time or another. They were the OEM for the Lafayette HB-333. They also manufactured 6, 2, and 6N2 transceivers.

When Polycomm moved out of Jersey, one of the main stakeholders started American Electronics in Plainfield, NJ It was mainly a Hi-Fi, CB and commercial radio repair facility. When he passed in the 90's, several of us were invited to the shop and pick through his stuff before it went to the third dumpster. Never did find out what was in the first two dumpsters.
But, came home with a HP-606A, Measurements generator, several linear amplifier prototypes I believe for CB or Business Band, a bunch Polycomm Senior 23, 23 and other Polycomm parts sets, assorted meters, a file cabinet full of manuals, a stack of original and never used, front panel red face plates for one of their CB's, a box tray of new 7027A tubes, and probably other things that I don't remember.

So the answer is yes there is still rivalry between CB and hams.  Probably more among older hams. I was first licensed in 1963.  I operate AM or CW exclusively with vintage equipment.  By the rules!

   Myself and a handful of friends, all hams, collect vintage CB rigs for fun and nostalgia; restore them and get on the air with them once in a while. By the rules!
   A few years ago, at a local hamfest, one of our group, a young guy who had just recently got his ham license but also liked playing with the old CB rigs, had bought a couple of old CB's and was standing looking at a seller's table with those CB's under his arm. One of those exemplary, gentlemanly, and obviously very superior older hams walked right up to him, looked him right in the face, and said, "a CB'er is the lowest form of life!"
   Do I think that ham, who was obviously little more than an ambulatory stool sample, spoke for all hams or was typical of them? Of course not; I don't engage in foolish generalizations like that, neither about hams nor CB'ers.
   

Pete, am I incorrect, or did Hammarlund make one radio for Lafayette? I seem to recall a radio where the 23 channels were divided into three ranges selected from a trilevel channel selector.

I really surprised nobody mentioned the HB115A. A friend of mine had one that he added the nuvistor preamp Lafayette sold. I think he also added some sort of relay switching modification.

If not for CB I likely would not be here.  When I was 16 my uncle urged me to get my ham license. He told me, in 2 years you will register for the draft. Many hams could be radio operators in the military. ?

Well I was in the last draft lottery, and fortunately got a high number, I think 248. Never got drafted but by that time I was enjoying this hobby. Wish my uncle was alive to thank him.

   Indeed, not only would I probably not be here if it were not for CB, in general, but I probably wouldn't be here if it were not for the number of hams that I met on the CB band as well. Quite a few of them were old-timers, advanced and extra, who saw CB not only as a place to enjoy a comfortable, laid-back conversation but also as fertile ground for recruiting new hams. They encouraged us, without being arrogant or judgemental, and oftentimes invited us to their local club events, like field days, as well as to their shacks, to see their stations and watch them operate. By getting on the CB band and encouraging us, they did amateur radio a great service.

Our first synthesized 23 channel transceiver. HB-222, made by United Scientific Laboratories (USL), Long Island City, NY, was a troubled design right from its beginning. Almost every one sold developed off frequency operation.
Hammarlund had developed their CB-23 synthesized 23 channel transceiver so a deal was developed between Hammarlund and Lafayette, to order up a bunch of CB-23's (I don't remember how many) change the labeling, change the front panel, massage the manual to now say Lafayette HB-266, and maybe a few other minor changes. Never was advertised in the years catalog since it was only around for less then a year. New 23 channel designs were being generated for Lafayette and others in Japan.

The HB-115 and the first generation HB-115A were both made by United Scientific Laboratories in Long Island City, NY.
USL also manufactured the HB-111, HE-15 series, HE20/20A/20B/20C, HE-35 series, HE-45 series, and HE-50 series, and the accessory VFOs, HE-61 and HE-62, and a few other products for Lafayette.

[(https://cbtricks.org/radios/lafayette/hb_266/graphics/lafayette_hb_266.jpg)(https://www.retrocom.com/images/hammarlund_CB23b.jpg)

   I worked in the Lafayette store in Manchester, Connecticut, back around 1977. Even though it wasn't a service depot, I would occasionally do some quick solder work for them out back at the small workbench they had. CB was big back then, and I remember offloading all those boxes of Telsat SSB-140's (a truly beautiful looking rig) from the weekly truck, coming from the warehouses in Syosset and Hauppauge out on Long Island. I have an SSB-140 in my collection, but it didn't come from those days; they went for around $300 back then, and they were paying me little more than minimum wage. I also still have the Lafayette stereo tuner/amp that I sold to my mother back then, an LR-3030, sporting the same brushed aluminum styling as the SSB-140.

OK about the Ham vs. CB thing, but the real questions is was there a rivalry between Radio Shack and Lafayette employees??? when I was a pup we had one Lafayette in town and two Radio Shacks located in malls, also two TV parts wholesalers. My memories were that Lafayette did not have all the parts in blister packs like Radio Shack did, and that Radio Shack sold integrated circuits and later computers and by that point Lafayette was thru.

The Lafayette SSB-140 was the 40 channel base. Nice radio. I have the 23 channel version, Telsat SSB-100, which I picked up years ago at a hamfest for $5. The only other CB I still have is a LM-300 which I used to monitor highway conditions traveling to and from Dayton each year. I had the Icom IC-706 MKIIG also in the car but preferred the Lafayette for the CB listening.

(https://klondikemikescapkits.com/cdn/shop/files/lafayette_telsatssb100_3b-1c_1200x1200.jpg?v=1720296925)

The Lafayette LR-3030 and 3030A were part of a very nice and successful family of receivers which included LR-1515, 1515A, 2020, 2020A, 3030, 3030A, 5555, 5555A, and 9090. I've had a LR-5555 and 5555A for years at different times and a 3030. I pulled a LR-1515 that was in a house fire from a cleanup dumpster. Interior was covered in soot. Took some time to clean everything up and, bottom line, it still worked fine. I sold it to a friend and it's still working fine today.

What was really cool about these receivers was that you could tune the receiver dial all the way to the left side, and with one good spin of the main tuning knob, the dial pointer would move all the way to the end of the right side of the dial.

These receivers were designed by Planet Research and Pioneer (Pioneer also had a financial stake in Planet Research) and Planet Research did the manufacturing. Planet Research was an OEM for a number of Hi-Fi brands.
I still have some of the Integrated power output modules that were used in the 3030 and 5555.

You would have to find all the former Lafayette and Radio Shack employees and ask them. :D
Back then, if I needed a electronic part and Lafayette didn't have it, I'd check with the local Radio Shack stores or other electronic part stores in the area.

Let me point out that even after the last bankruptcy proceeding in 1981, Lafayette didn't disappear. Five stores in the New York City area, including one in NJ. were bought by Circuit City, Richmond, VA. The stores were rebranded Lafayette-Circuit City and stayed open until the late 80's. Even though Lafayette's main warehouse and service area closed several months after bankruptcy settlement, I continued Lafayette service work until roughly 1985/86. Speculation was that Circuit City was testing the NYC market. Circuit City opened several area stores several years later, with just the Circuit City Banner.

   I think maybe you mean the LM-300? (no S) If that's the case, I think that was the dual-receive job, with the dual channel selectors and displays. As I remember, the LM (AM only) and the LMS (S for sideband) series replaced the older Telsat models just before Lafayette started circling the drain.
   Of all the myriad CB models that came on the scene in those days, I always felt that the SSB-100 and 140 were just about the nicest looking base rigs. For mobile rigs, I always loved Radio Shack's TRC-449, with its gleaming chrome and fake wood-grain. I've got several of those in my collection. A bit of CB collecting trivia: Most of those TRC-449's had brilliant mirror-finish chrome bezels, but a few, the later versions I suspect, had a more subdued matte-finish. Maybe mobile users complained about distracting reflections in their eyes.
   Yes, I love that tuning dial on the Lafayette receivers! Reminds me of the wonderful Eddystone dials on my Clegg Zeus and Interceptor

Correct - it is the LM-300. I probably was thinking of the Lafayette LMS-40 which I had also owned for several years. (brain :o fog)

I remember in the 70s my grandfather hooking up a cb.  Realistic TRC 47.  Paid a few hundred bucks for it, 24 channels with 46 more on ssb!  Lol

When he turned it on, signals from all over the USA came in.....  I was hooked!

My grandfather was a WW2 comms specialist, could do cw with his fist over 50 wpm...  and had ZERO interest in becoming a ham.  But sure pushed me every second of the day and way to license and get off 11 meters.

Never figured that out.  He HATED me being on 11 meters.  Even though he turned me on to it, he sparked my interest, and he flatly refused to get a ham ticket.

He also NEVER ran an illegal cb.  Even when I offered him an 8 watt export, nope.  Thems illegal.

I tried for decades to get my ticket.  Never could get the 5 wpm.  I had passed novice to extra when I first took my tests, but couldn't get the 5 wpm so was tech plus.

I should upgrade.



--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

Buried in the lab somewhere is an old 23 CH CB with two concentric channel knobs and an extra switch for 1/2/1-2 which selected one, the other, or alternated between the two, stopping when the squelch was broken. The radio itself is a solid state 12V mobile type but very large and heavy. There are also a couple of Johnson white face CBs, which run on 6VDC or 115VAC.

Does anyone else like the Sonar FS-23?

   And from the beautiful SSB-100/140 and Realistic TRC-449, we move on to the thoroughly butt-ugly Johnson Viking 4740. It's almost as if Johnson's designers deliberately intended the rig to be unattractive, but I suppose it simply reflects Johnson's business-band/public service equipment heritage. As if to compound the visual assault, they also chose to put the microphone connector at the rear, near the coax connector. But, visual hideousness aside, and true to Johnson's heritage, it's a solid, dependable little rig.
   I call this my "Barf Radio," not entirely because of its appearance, but because of how I obtained it. A number of years ago, at Nearfest, I was walking past a small camp-trailer, and noticed the rig sitting on a table in front of the camper, but there was no one around. I was interested in the rig, and figured I'd wait around a bit for the seller to show up, but then I heard a gurgling, groaning, stomach-distress sort of sound from behind the camper, accompanied by occasional messy spattering noises. Someone peered around the camper, looking none-too-well, and I asked, "ten bucks for the CB?"
   "Sure," he grunted, "just leave the money on the table," before quickly disappearing behind the camper to continue purging whatever offending food item he'd eaten the evening before. And thus the Barf Radio was added to my collection, and among my local group of collectors, those Johnson rigs are still known as Barf Radios. "Bill, there's a Barf Radio up at the north end of the fairgrounds, next to the red Suburban," or something similar, is likely to be heard on my Kenwood HT to this day at hamfests.

that is butt ugly and a hilarious story.

I sort of like the appearance.

   It does have a rather practical, functional appearance, like a mule. Which end of the mule, I guess, would be the question.

Back when I was a CB JN I subscribed to Popular Electronics.  Occasionally PE would do a piece on CB radios.  I had a liking of the SBE series.  One that always kept me wishing to have was the SBE  Console.  Like much of the audio equipment of that era, it came in a wood cabinet and it was very eye appealing. A coworker of mine had one and asked me to look at it because it was not working properly.  I wasn't impressed with the internal construction but I got it working as it should.  His was in very good condition. He took care of it.  It was a very nice looking rig on the outside and seemed to work quite well considering its age.

  Yes, some of the SBE rigs were very nice looking. That Console V is quite the prize on the collector market even today, although I think the Console II was a bit better internally.
  The thing about the CB market back in the day was that those rigs were targeted at a largely non-technical demographic. Unlike hams who'd be more likely to buy a rig based on its features and technical specs, the average CB'er was more likely to go for aesthetics.
  I often proudly show my wife my ham rig acquisitions, and her response is usually an uninspired "That's nice, go put it in your radio room," but one day when I came home with a shiny chrome Cobra 2000, it was "Now that's a radio I like!"

The Good Old Cobra 2000.

Or as mine is called (has rca line level in and a buffered detector output)....  A Wideband Cobra Two Grand.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

I guess I'm just like a number of us that are on here.  I too started out in CB of the 70's.  My best friend's dad had a Super MC12 with a D104 hooked to it.  I didn't think much of it at the time until my friend took me over to one of his neighbors who had just received a Lafayette CB, similar or maybe the same as the HB444 that WA2SQQ had pictured.  I was hooked immediately.  For me, my first CB is a TRC55 which I still have.  By 1979 I was a licensed ham.  Along the way, a TRC448 and TRC457 came into possession along with a Sears RoadTalker.

Scott
W6WAC

Here in Nothhern NJ we had two ?dealers? that maintained an almost 24 hour presence on ?their? channel. Al Boney was in Nutley NJ, representing the Browning Eagle on Ch13. On 11, in the Southern part of Newark, there was a couple (Betty and Vinny) who owned some sort of auto repair business, representing the Demco Satellite brand. I recall meeting Betty the first time, walking in to her office to see a brassy elder bleach blonde putting her makeup on using the back of her D104 as a mirror.

What amazed me was that both of these ?dealers? were running sweep tube amplifiers, likely around 500w, openly using their assigned call sign, and neither ever got caught. We had a very aggressive FCC field engineer who invoked his rath quite often. After I got my amateur license I would get to know him, Dave Popkins, at a. more sociable level. Dave was also a ham. Browning and Demco were out of my financial reach, but having a Tram Titan was my real dream.

   Interesting to note that the Cobra 2000, and the later "three-button" Washington, with the Uniden 8719 board, employed series modulation in the AM mode, with a Darlington pair as the series element. Being series modulated they would have been capable of excellent AM audio, but since the FCC specified 10khz channel spacing, there was a lot of upstream filtering in place to keep the transmit bandwidth appropriately narrow.
   The original "two-button" Washington, Cobra 139, Realistic TRC-449, TRC-457/458, and a great many others, used the Uniden 858 board with conventional modulation transformer. The modulation transformers were deliberately designed with limited bandwidth, so less upstream filtering was needed.
   The Trams and Brownings used conventional modulation transformers, but other tube rigs, like the Courier Royale, used an interesting modulation transformer where the class-A modulator was connected to the primary's center-tap, with B+ to one side and the final PA to the other. The modulator is single-ended class-A, like Heising, but not technically Heising, since with the center-tap the transformer is acting like an auto-transformer rather than as a simple reactance.

DEMCO

Dosy Electronics Manufacturing COmpany.

Owned by Emil Dosy.

Sister company to Wawassee BlackCat Electronics.

My friend Dennis has warehouses full of stuff from Dosy (demco) all the way to multiple TWT, large ceramics, etc.

He thought it would be his swan song multiple warehouses filled with prototypes (he had a W6SAI 2 X 500Z prototype, etc from Eimac) but a few rats and other critters destroyed multiple acres of electronics history.

Spent over a decade going over his stuff.  It's mostly crap now.  All lost to time, tech, etc. In the mid 2000s his collection would have been in the half million dollar category.  Today, maybe 10 grand.  All junk destroyed by time, rust, rodents and a lack of people whom cared.



--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

I just bought a reel to reel tape deck to gut for spare parts for a tape deck that I have. The price was right and I only needed a few things out of it to support my machine. What I got was good but when I got the box from the seller, something told me to open it up outside which I did. It had a slight odor to it. Opened it up and the interior was a mouse nest. Nothing living in it fortunately but mouse crap all over the place. This machine evidently lived in a barn or worse in someones basement/house for a period. I always worry about what bugs are being shipped around.

Dave Popkin >>  https://www.qcwa.org/w2cc-17294.htm

[/list]

The equipment required for ultra-high frequency radios, during the late 40's through the 50's were neither practical nor affordable for the average consumer. So on September 11, 1958, the FCC created CB service class D on 27 MHz or 11 meter amateur band. Over the years, the 11 meter amateur band had showed very limited amateur radio use. The near-by 10 meter amateur band was more in favor as it provided both domestic and international activity.

Through the late 50's and through most of the 60's, this new CB 27 MHz service was found to be very popular with the home owner and the casual car user.

However, with the establishment of the 55 MPH and heavy enforcement in 1974 on all the major highways, CB found a very large audience with truck drivers and other mobile users that used our highways regularly to relay "speed traps", law enforcement highway monitoring locations, along with road and travel status.

The first Smokey and the Bandit movie came out in 1977.

Many movies never give accurate representation as to how amateur radio, CB, and radio/transmitting props in general are operated. As an example. there have several movie instances where Heathkit receivers were used as transceivers.

I seriously doubt manufacturers were worried about excess vacuum tubes in their inventory after WW II and Korea War. Through the late 40's, all through the 50's and into the 60's, manufacturing of vacuum tube radios, TV's, and tons of test equipment and military equipment (we were shooting for the moon) had skyrocketed. I doubt the CB 27 MHz service saved the day for them.  :)  Plus, after the War, the military was dumping all their storage of parts and tons of their completed equipment.

I'm a bit confused, OM: how would having a high draft number relate to being a Ham?

Bill,W4EWH

He could play radio without having to hold a rifle   ;D

If you're curious about the "HO" model railroad guage,GIYF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HO_scale (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HO_scale).


The first time this was explained to me was by my brother, W3TDH: he used to be in a model train club that was so intense, the club's officers had to hold actual, genuine Railroad Engineer licenses, which required that they pass the same medical checks required of airline pilots!

Bill, W4EWH

Oh,OK: I always thought that I was a Ham because it allowed me to have intelligent conversations with people whom were too far away to hit me.  ;D

Bill, W4EWH

At an early age my uncle urged me to get my license, in the event I was drafted, I t might have increased my chances for getting assigned to some communication related position. A good friend of mine, WA2TDA, was in that situation and was sent to Okinawa for some sort of signal intelligence assignment

Well...a bit late to the conversation, as usual.

Rivalry? Makes no sense. Amateur radio & Citizens Band are comparable to apples & oranges. Any competition is in the small minds of those who try to use something to elevate themselves, increase their perceived prestige and so on.

Back in the day there were surely hams who were miffed at losing one of their bands to average folks who didn't need to take a test to gain access, simply pay the $20 license fee and off you go. Wasn't around then so I can't say what any derision was like. My good friend and radio mentor Ray, KC1BT/SK told me that instead, many just accepted it and bought a rig for 11m as back then it was used mainly for local chat, along the lines of today's "2 meter CB".

I do know there have been many over the years who have looked down on CBers in an elitist way. Happened to me years ago at Hosstraders when I was looking at an old Browning Mobilaire set and heard something like "I didn't know you stooped to such levels!?!!" I pointed out that I collect and enjoy old tube gear - regardless of the service it comes from. Military, ham, CB, broadcast....makes no difference to me as I never blame an inanimate object for the way a previous owner may have used or misused it.

Are there idiots on CB? Without a doubt. Same goes for amateur radio, as pointed out by others. The numbers may be different, but the effect is still the same.

The most amusing aspect to me was always the newly-minted ham who jumps right on the 'dumb CBers' bandwagon to try to fit in. Many or most, like me, weren't even around then.

Question for Pete: which manufacturer did Lafayette use for their Comstat 25A set? Looks a lot like the ECI/Courier 23 except for the rounded cabinet design which looks like Regency.

All the Lafayette Comstat's were OEM'd from Japan. I don't remember the manufacturer. If the catalog number for the product started with a "99", it was imported from Japan.
And. of course, whoever it was, could have been the OEM for a number of U.S. and international resellers and the designs could have been similar in look and feel and construction.

Also note that Courier 23 was manufactured by ECI/Courier, Mount Vernon, NY.

Wow man that's deep! Are there idiots on CB? somehow think there's a good share of idiots everywhere.
CB operators use AM, we use AM and maybe the real question is if there is a rivalry between AM and SSB people? or Voice and CW?

  On CB, back in the day, there was great rivalry, even outright hostility, between AM and SSB ops. There was an unofficial "gentleman's agreement," similar to the agreement on the amateur bands to use LSB below 9mhz and USB above, with that agreement stipulating SSB only on certain frequencies and AM only on others within the forty CB channels. Incursions by either adherents into the other's "territory" led to unpleasantness.

When there was only 23 channels, most of the SSB activity congregated on channel 16 and used LSB.
When 40 channels opened up, most of the SSB activity congregated on channels 35 to 40. However, with the advantage of many of the newer PLL-type CB's to easily shift operation higher in frequency, a lot of SSB moved there. Plus VFO's or "Siders" became a useful addition to the CB'er to move within the CB band and beyond.

Lafayette had a number of SSB/AM models from the 60's through the late 70's, but in many on-the-air CB demos and home operations, I never observed any hostility.

Of course, if you were around in the late 50's through the 60's and even into the 70's, the animosity between amateur radio operators using the SSB mode and the AM operators was quite strong and, at times, extremely humorous. It was quite prevalent on 75 and 40 meters. You couldn't buy this type of entertainment.

Today, this type of amateur radio animosity exists between users of digital modes and the rest of the amateur community that doesn't use any digital modes. :D

   In 1976, the number of CB license applications exceeded half a million per month. Of course, many operators didn't even bother with the license at all, making the total number of CB operators difficult to count. What resulted was certainly the most crowded 440khz in the history of radio communications, hence the temptation for many to venture out of band. I never got into the out-of-band operations, myself, but the local radio shops were doing a bang-up business converting rigs, not to mention the rigs modified (often very clumsily) by their owners.
   In my area, channels 16 and 17 were the customary hangout for SSB, along with 36 through 40, but channel 35 was a sort of no-man's land, and often hotly contested. Lower sideband use was encouraged, but there were a few groups that used upper sideband, resulting in some friction.
   The friction between SSB and AM operators wasn't entirely an interference issue; there was a perception that SSB operators were the "elite," and some of them played that up, while AM ops tended to resent the perceived superior attitude of the sidebanders. The price disparity between sideband and AM-only rigs encouraged that schism, with SSB rigs often selling for twice or more the price of AM-only rigs.
   I have to wonder if, had the popularity of CB not waned, CB manufacturers today would be offering some form of digital voice modes similar to DMR.

What makes you say that "had the popularity of CB not waned"

Not digital voice but: In September 2021, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in the US approved the use of the FM mode for CB radios, alongside the traditional AM and SSB modes.

For digital voice on a CB channel, there's probably no reason why a CB user couldn't use one of these:
http://www.aorusa.com/others/ard9800.html
if there was someone on the other end to communicate with.

   Citizen's Band Radio, in terms of the number of users and relevance in the consumer market, is surely only the most fleeting shadow of its former self. The rigs are still available at Walmart and Best Buy, but sales numbers would certainly be minuscule compared to the glory days of the 70's. Very little CB usage is heard these days on the highways; I suspect the long-haul truckers have moved on to something else.
   I doubt that the FCC's decision to allow the use of FM had anything to do with consumer demand. FM capable CB rigs had already been on the market for decades in the form of "export" rigs manufactured for the foreign markets where FM was allowed, with large numbers already in use here in the U.S.
   I suspect that the decision to allow FM was largely motivated by the FCC's washing their hands of CB enforcement, which had become a burden. They eliminated the licensing requirement, and later removed the rule prohibiting communications over 150 miles, since enforcing both required manpower and expense that the government couldn't justify. And, since FM rigs were already pouring into the country and readily available, they simply threw up their hands and gave in.
   In retrospect, though, I don't see why FM shouldn't have been allowed right from the beginning. Narrow-band FM would have been compatible with the 10khz channel spacing, and would likely have reduced interference with other users and services.   

I always thought the best CB accessory was something like the Delta TURBO Echo and Roger Beep. Wonder how this useful and valuable technology has never showed up on the Ham bands yet, imagine the Hams are just behind the curve. Way better then digital.

Back around 2004, I was speaking to an elderly Scoutmaster about the steps my son had to go through to be awarded Eagle Scout rank, and I remarked, toward the end of the conversation, "He's still got time: he's only Fourteen, so we've got a few years before the deadline."

The old man (I get to write that because I'm one myself now) shook his head and smiled at me sadly, and said "No, you don't: once they get a whiff of perfume and gasoline, they're gone!"

Bill, W4EWH

 Don't forget the noise toys: farting donkeys, mooing cows and crowing roosters. I haven't seen them yet in the HRO or DX Engineering catalogs; maybe the shipments from China have been delayed by the tariff negotiations. ;)

Sounds like TimTron on 75.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

There was a big rivalry between ssb and am for a long time on 11.

Not so much anymore, especially since everyone is running a export or YeaComWood.

35 and up was for ssb when the 40 channel upgrade came.  16 was the big ssb channel in the 23 channel days.

Yes, the ssb guys REALLY thought their feecees didn't stink, compared to am guys.  For the most part, the ssb guys ran clean setups and the am guys would run class c.

Then Davemade and the rest of the battle box class c amps showed up.  Ssb went the way of crossover distortion on the standard 11 meter band.  The freehand is still pretty clean.

Now it's the am guys that have super clean setups.  Using SDR or wideband detectors on the receivers and external modulator on tx.

To each his own. 

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

When folks feel compelled to use devices that they don't understand, they go back to the Book of Judges, and they invent Shibboleths to feel like they are distinct from everyone else doing the same thing. Thus, those using CB sets during the 60's were forced to learn a new made-up language, and "Smokey" became a synonym for "State" trooper," most likely because both "Smokey the Bear" and "Highway Patrolman" both applied to people who wore wide-brimmed hats. Anyone referring to an amplifier was expected to say "kicker" instead, and these other shibboleths (from https://www.rightchannelradios.com/pages/cb-radio-codes-and-lingos (https://www.rightchannelradios.com/pages/cb-radio-codes-and-lingos) became common:)

Chicken Coop:	A weigh station.
Chicken Lights:	Extra lights on a truck?s exterior.
Christmas Card:	A ticket for speeding

So, we have some hams who disdain CB'ers because they realize CB'ers are just like them:

• both ham and CB sets have Push-To-Talk-and-Release-To-Listen buttons
• Neither group knows as much about antenna as they pretend
• Both Hams and CB'ers want approval from the public
• Neither group has home-brewed their equipment
• The list continues, ad infinitum

CB is withering away, for these reasons:

• Modern cars have so much RF noise in them that it's damned near impossible for CB sets to function, because they still use AM
• There's no longer any cachet to be able to call your girlfriend from your car
• Finding a source of DC is very difficult, too.
• Mounting antennas now requires a college degree
• Nobody is impressed by a Push-To-Talk-and-Release-To-Listen button anymore. Broderick Crawford no longer has better toys

Bill,W4EWH

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I don't recall that I ever used the lingo, even back in my younger days.
I haven't had a CB rig in a vehicle for many decades, but I do notice that my Icom IC-7000 picks up a bit of noise on 6 meter AM, though it's not horrible.
My Nissan Frontier has a connector under the dash for a trailer brake controller, and I've got the mating connector on my Icom power cable. Easy DC access with no cutting into anything.
I just mount my 6m/2m dual band vertical with a mag-mount; no holes or engineering degrees required.
I don't want approval from the public; I hope they think I'm a dangerous fanatic and keep their distance. ;D

I've been licensed for 46 years.  Going back 25 or so years, when I moved after getting married my work commute went from a 5 minute drive to a 90minute drive. I got up in the morning at 330AM to to get ready for the commute to arrive at work around 630AM. I put a CB into my little Ford Escort to pass the driving time. 2m didn't cut it at that hour. The band was dead.  The Escort was a noise maker. I just turned up the squelch on the radio and drove. On many occasions I would pass some of the same truck drivers and they'd give me a "shout" on channel 19.  It was a mutual welcome to chit chat with others and take the boredom away and reduce the risk at falling asleep at the wheel. I recall nice cordial conversations with no radio lingo. No one would have noticed if we were CB'ers or amateurs. It was just 2 or more people talking the time away.

 If you're South of the Mason-Dixon line, just put a "Biden" bumper sticker on your car!

Bill, W4EWH

   Or perhaps get myself a MAGA hat and walk around the UCONN campus, which isn't far from here. Great entertainment for someone whose idea of fun might be rubbing his head with bacon grease and sticking it down a badger hole.
   My wonderful wife, by the way, who is a bit challenged in history, geography, and linguistics, refers to the Mason-Dixon Line as the "Maple-Bacon" line, perhaps because she loves going out for breakfast.

Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon Line.  ;D

I can?t resist bringing free Lafayette 25 channel toob sets back to life. 

At one time I had at least half dozen NOS of those TM-58 meter movements in my inventory. Made a bunch of Power/SWR meters using those meter movements and sold them at local hamfests.

It's also been years since I checked my crystal stock for a lot of the crystals used in the frequency synthesizing setups. I should probably check and sell off that stuff before they crumble into dust.

The veritable D201.

Has a 6550A in it now instead of the 6L6GC.  I ran a KT88 in it for a long time until it broke shipping it here.  Had a 6550 so threw that in.

Has zero issues making 8 watts of carrier and 150 percent modulation.

Those bigger tubes REALLY didnt want to fit in the radio, but it was worth it.

Of course I had to bring a couple plate mod transmitters down to the Caribbean, too :)


I have a Glenn 326G (programmable digital) VFO for the D201.  As is it covers 11 or 10 meters depending on which xtal i have in it for the BFO to heterodyne off with the factory vfo.  Haven't had time to put it on it.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

Wow, all this talk about CB has me so inspired decided to look on the Bay and see what is available. Being i am not smart enough to use modern radios just did a key word search for used and vintage.
over eight thousand used CB radios pop up and did see some nice Lafayette tube sets I can relate to but also saw this.
I don't want it being too new but looking at it feel this must be the "Trump" edition radio.
Look close at the picture and see the radio in the background with the old Heathkit amplifier.

K4HX said:Everywhere I went in the south, (Norge included! ;) ), the REAL Mason-Dixon line is only 10 miles north of where you are standing at that time!

that is a cool looking radio. practical and utilitarian but a beauty for that time period.

Pete
I had an old Courier manual that listed their address on Frelinghisen Ave in Newark,NJ
Were they ever made in NJ?
I also re+all that at some point the company was  called Fanon Courier?
I?m seriously wanting to convert my Courier Royale up,to 10m AM. Not sure where to start and what would be involved.

https://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=16767.0

Courier 10 meters with the math.

I found using a MFJ 259 to inject the new signal gave me a drift VFO.  :)


--Shane

Courier was owned by ECI at one point as well.

Their chassis, along with Lafayette, Robyn (early tube stuff), Gemtronics (tube stuff), ECI Fanon Courier and even Kris (tube stuff) where fabbed by Panasonic in Japan.

Later on, after the switch to solid state, Cybernetic became a powerhouse of CB manufacturing.  If it has the PLL02A PLL in it, it's a Cybernet.  Chances are good it was assembled here in the good old USA as well.  Cybernetic would finish a lot of their chassis in Puerto Rico.

Unidentified came along after that, well into the late 70s to mid 80s and started falling for everyone.

Finally it was Jimmy Peng and Ranger Communications International that has been building most CB chassis ( the Cobra and Uniden boards, so to speak).  

Interestingly enough, Ranger (Jimmy Peng) bought the the Tawain fab shop that built the Fanon solid state Courier radios.  He ended up owning the name Courier and Galaxy from that purchase.  It ended up becoming RCI.

He started by bringing the Courier name and the Galaxy name back in the late 80s and early 90s. 

There's another fab house that built the crappy radios of 20 some years ago, wireless marketing.  Early Chinese crap.  

Memory lane.  Whodathunk being an insider to CB radios would have ever imparted knowledge anyone cared about.  Maybe nobody does.


--Shane
Wp2ass / ex KD6VXI