The AM Forum

    Hi all,
                I have a Collins 20V2 that I saved from going to the dump.  I have someone interested in the Mod xfmr & mod reactor (what a surprise).  Can someone give me an approximate value on these items? 

                I'll be listing a bunch of 20V2 stuff here in the near future.  This rig was converted to 160 M and was on the air about 1 year ago. 

Tnx & 73,
Bob
N2OAM

I would say that it's too valuable to part out. A Collins 20V2 that's converted over to 160 will be a sought after transmitter.

Mike

Hello Bob,

Completely agree with Mike!

If I may,   WHY part out,  what is probably the most beautiful (IMO) broadcast rig made?  (yea,  some of the WE BC rigs are stunning!).

There should be many people lined-up,  to buy the entire rig,   and happily do any repairs that might be needed and proudly put it back on the air (in its entirety).

Large Mod Iron is a bit scarce,   particularly the Reactor,   but please,   please do NOT part out this historic,   FB   rig!

Just an additional opinion,  hopefully not too much attitude.
73,   GL,   Vic

     Thanks for the replies, but it's too late.  PA tank circuit is gone, as is most of the internal wiring.  I still have all the iron, the deck that has the LV & HV power supplies, RF deck, Mod deck, both less tubes, all switches, & control circuitry, meters, oil caps, etc.  Also have a very large grey box that everything went into.  If there's no interest in that, next step, cutting torch!

73,
Bob
N2OAM

The only thing I will keep is this

 ???  restore it. seems like a waste to cut up 90% of it.

I hate to say it, but the broadcast transmitter market isn't what it was even a few years ago. Very little interest, it seems. It's quite a commitment and apparently much easier for many folks to talk about than actual do.

Still have the 'INR 21E/21XS here in the garage after several attempts to sell it. Converted and ready to go, requires some assembly, space, and a strong floor. Chances are it will end up parted as well if I can't manage the time to get it back on the air myself soon. Had planned to scrap it before the move when it didn't sell but just couldn't bring myself to do it. Gary did such a wonderful job converting it from ceramic to glass tubes and it was a clean transmitter to start with. Think it works on 160 or 75/80 with some adjustment.

A lot of metal and iron, for sure. Photos of it before conversion and after Gary had it breathing fire in Syracuse. It's nice to preserve things, but there comes a point where someone else needs to preserve some of the stuff at their location.

Bob, hard to follow the story.
So, you saved what was left of the Collins BC transmitter from the dump?
or before someone was going to scrap it?
The PA tank and wiring was gone? Or did you part that out?

Seems like a worthy thing to utilize.

How about a pic of the unit as it now stands?
Maybe there is interest here... etc.

What's ur QTH?

yes, a picture.. Someone might like the stylish cabinet and restore it with something else insiide.

It was pretty much complete when I got it.  If I didn't take it, it was going to the dump.  Sold off the tubes & the variable & padder caps, kept the big inductor to replace the hand wound inductor in my link coupled tuner.  I'll try to post some pictures of what's left.  My qth is Putnam county, NY, ZIP 10541.

Bob

That was a quick end to a classic.....The radio gods are angry

That was a quick end to a classic.....The radio gods are angry

Would you rather it ended up in the dump??  Still looking for approximate values on the mod xfmr & mod reactor.


N2OAM

Well no use crying over spilt milk.

But in general, and as someone who some time back looked in vain for a decade for a BC
transmitter "within striking distance" (none showed up), it might have been prudent to first offer
it up as a full piece for sale on the several online places that one might, such as this one?

So, no - nobody would have wanted it to go to a dump if that was your thought?

Anyhow, pictures might show what is left in more clear terms than you may be able to list.
And, assuming it is beyond resurrection, one could put the remaining iron up on one or more
of the places where people sell ham stuff and see what surfaces.

But at least the parts and iron may go to good use and good ham homes...

                            _-_-

I'm not sure the value,  but you might want to hit the FOR SALE section of this board and see if there are any listed.   Would give ya a ballpark figure.

I'd love to have that chassis.......   Have a build I'm buying parts for now that would look amazing in it.

Alas,  I'm in the left coast........

--Shane
KD6VXI

Oh, the mod transformer is easily worth $20,000 and the reactor being that they are much more scarce, could easily go for about 30K. For insurance purposes, I would suggest insuring the pair for 60K! Maybe on a good auction day, they might easily bring $100,000. Not bad money and with the proceeds, a timeshare home down payment could be in the offering?  Maybe you will get more but this is a good starting point?

I think I have been watching the Antiques Roadshow too long? Try listing it on epay if you don't want to offer it locally would be my suggestion. You might get better satisfaction for a trade for an item that  you are looking for?   

Everything is worthless unless you have someone who wants it... Cheap hams might give you a couple hundred for both..

Hi Bob,

To the right person the transformer (kept in good shape) is worth approximately $100-$200. The reactor, the same. They are heavy. Shipping is expensive. Prices on equipment like this have gone thru the floor as the consumers for it are aging out.

My 20V-3 was a pile of junk. It will now cover 160 thru 10. Value, who knows, but never what is invested. People do this kind of thing Bob. We wish you had offered the V-2 in one peace here (on this reflector) first. They are hard to find.

Mike

I've killed off so many BC rigs I've lost count, but the majority were tube-type FM jobs with no future.  No guilt there.

A Gates BC-1G died here, but it had an internal fire and most of it was junk.

Several gates MW-5's have passed on in pieces as a favor to every engineer that ever had to flog one, and some hams that needed QRO stuff.

Lots of 1 kW AM's have come thru, and every one of those have gone on to live at some ham's QTH.

There is a BC-1H1 here now, hopefully it will go to a local guy as negotiations are ongoing.

Too bad you hacked that V2 before finding it a home in one piece, but it is still better than in a landfill.

73DG

That BC-1H is the only transmitter I would like to own again. The one I had was sold and is back in commercial service. It had the solid state audio driver.

Couple pictures of a particular nasty MW-5 that I killed with a backhoe. The PDM system was never right and it ate modulator tubes twice as often as a couple other MW-5 that I use to have in service. Another engineer before me apparently decided that he knew how to build the PDM system up better then Harris and that transmitter never sounded right and was always a pig, so when the time came to replace it bought a new building for the site and a new DAX and decided to knock over the old building and the transmitter at the same time although I did salvage several parts from that transmitter to keep on the shelf for the other two that were still in service at the time.
Over the years have sold and given away three or four RCA and Gates transmitters to Hams along with converting and using a RCA-BTA1 on 160 for a couple years and have found just what other have said. Everyone says that they want a broadcast transmitter until it comes time to move it. The problem is that in the real world where you’re looking at time frames and schedules you can’t just tell owners and managers that you want to keep something around that may be in the way or blocking installation of a new transmitter while Hams decide what they are going to do and if they can get it or not. Twice before I had Hams tell me they were going to take a transmitter and then after setting up time to come in on a week end or at night have them show up and see just how big the transmitters are and what they weigh and then backing out.
There is only a small group of Hams that got what it takes to resolve all the challenges of using an old broadcast transmitter, moving, storage and conversion. But there is a larger group that thinks they can do it but when it comes down to it they can’t get the job done. And knowing what it takes I can’t fault this guy for going thru the huge effort in just picking this thing up and at least making an effort to see that some of the components go to a good home. The thing to consider now is that I know that I got rid of all my tube AM high level transmitters in commercial service around ten years ago along with most other broadcasters who are now all solid state so you’re not going to see many more of those transmitters given away and very soon the only availability will be from those who have them in use on the Ham bands or stored away.
But beyond all this maybe my point is that owning a Broadcast transmitter for Ham use is a lot like owning a drag race car, If you want a race car and are trying to buy it when the seller does not need to sell it they will ask twenty or thirty thousand dollars because that’s what they have in it but when the same seller decides to get out of racing because they lost interest, get divorced or have to relocate you can pick the car up for two grand.  I figure being into heavy metal AM is a lot like drag racing.

Does scrap have to be broken up before a yard will take it?
I guess of it is reduced to a plastic pile, aluminum pile and steel pile , then they're happier.

Something tells me that crushing that MW-5 was more about the satisfaction, rather then the scrap..

Absolute satisfaction, especially that particular MW-5 with its horrific audio and ability to somehow always fail on holidays and weekends and how it would produce spurious products up and down the band under normal modulation. Killing that transmitter was the best day’s work I had done in a long time. Had two other MW-5 that I eventually replaced but they both went to sister stations as parts for their MW-5 transmitters.

Thinking back on it that MW-5 also had a talent for failing right 4:45 on Friday afternoons too.

I have only seen one MW-5 in person.. And that was when I had the sawzall in my hand ;D

The MW-5 was one of the first generation Harris PDM transmitters, no modulation transformer. The PA tube was simple enough being just a triode but its cathode was connected in series thru the PDM filter to the plate of the modulator tube. So the PDM signal that controlled the modulator tube, a tetrode or pentode don’t remember what it was also controlled the output power. When you started the transmitter there was some sort of feedback loop with the PDM driver that sensed the output and if everything was not right the transmitter would not start. And that happened often.  Being the RF output amplifier floated above the modulator all of the components of the output stage were isolated above ground including a strange looking filament transformer for the PA tube.
The high voltage power supply was a lot larger than you would normally encounter in a radio transmitter being something like 10 or 12 Kv because the two tubes were in series. Think normal plate voltage on the PA was around four or five thousand volts but remember that it floated above the modulator that had another five or so thousand applied. On a couple of the ones I had they were good transmitters usually only requiring new tubes once a year and the occasional fan belt and light bulbs, they had lights in the PA cavity so you can peak in at the grid and plate current meters but the transmitter at WJDY that got squashed had no end to issues. Things like transistors in the PDM driver that ran in class D use to short out on occasion and were a real pain to get to, the HV shorting contactors would die and drop down and short out the HV supply with colorful results and also had to replace the HV transformer on that transmitter and whoever installed the transmitter originally did it with about a little under two foot clearance behind the transmitter so you were not able to fully open the back door and had to remove it from its hinges and pass it around to the front of the transmitter then to outside because the building was so small. When the HV transformer failed had to disassemble the front of the transmitter and drag it out that way. Another fun thing about that site was that once the CP current meter failed, being that station went on the air back at the beginning of time they used antenna current meters that were directly in line instead of the Delta loops that everyone uses today. The CP current meter at the input of the phasor failed and it was mounted panel of the phasing network isolated by some phenolic block or something like that just behind a window on the cabinet. When the meter failed somehow the RF started arcing from the meter to the cabinet and after burning up the meter and block it was installed on the plasma from the RF set about burning a hole thru the front of and down about six or eight inches of the steel rack plate that was part of the phasing network. This was not the thin steel that we see in modern rack panels but steel plate that was maybe just a little bit thinner then quarter inch. Of course the whole time the transmitter was burning traces up and down the cabinet it had no issues staying up and doing the destruction. After knocking the building and the MW-5 over we installed a new prefab building at that site but the old phasor cabinet is still in operation to this day, considering its been in continuous operation from 1949 until today it may be one of the oldest items in broadcast radio that’s still in constant use. Think that’s about sixty eight years of service! You can see a picture of the site and phasor on one of my web pages at:

http://staff.salisbury.edu/~rafantini/transmitter_site_tour.htm