The AM Forum

A friend of mine sent me this link.  I'll quote him as I could not have said it better. Amazing!

Al

"Check out this P-51 Cockpit shot.  I have never seen this type of Omni picture from a cockpit before.  It's "All View" capable.  Put your mouse pointer anywhere and click/hold down/ and drag the photo to what you want to see.  Play with it because you will be amazed at how much you can see.  More than the Pilot could see in combat because he is limited by his harness and cannot rotate his neck 360 deg.

"Click the link below.
Fantastic!  Awesome restoration. Every nut and bolt, every instrument like new...not even a chip on the paint.  Use the + or - key to zoom in and out P-51 Cockpit - Click and Drag for 360 degree V&H views
Click on the link below :"

http://www.stclairphoto-imaging.com/360/P51-Mustang/P51_swf.html

Al,
    That is way kool! ! !  I aimed the view down at the seat and spun it around, it actually made me dizzy, I had to stop as It almost gave me a headache.

However they did that, that is pretty awesome technology! It actually "feels" like you are in there!

We used the same Red guard as on the starter switch on the F117A for 3 different functions

Go here for all the 360 images.    Under aircraft, there are some more cockpit 360 images.

http://www.stclairphoto-imaging.com/360/

Where are the ARC-5 controls? The gear itself should be behind the pilots head in that blacked out area.

I don't think the Navy (users of ARC-5 gear) had many P-51s, Carl. The AAF used the SCR-274N 'Command Sets', but since the P-51 arrived a bit later in the war, they were generally fitted out or retro-fitted with the SCR-522 VHF set. Mike Hanz has a good page about it at:

http://aafradio.org/flightdeck/bendix2.htm

I see a VHF panel on the lower right of the cockpit, but it's post-WWII. Since this particular plane appears to have been converted to two seats for giving rides, I'd guess the control boxes were deemed unnecessary since the radio wasn't present behind the pilot.

Speaking of P-51's, I saw the movie "Red Tail" last weekend and the base commanders office had an RME 45 behind his desk and under what looked like an HB black crinkle xmtr....

They are all the same to me Todd, ARC-5 and Command. One was bare aluminum and the other was black wrinkle....and yes there are a few differences ;D

Too bad it's not a two seat-er. I can just imagine the trill of sitting in that cockpit when the engine comes to life. The vibration probably shakes the entire airframe.   

Ah, I see. The old 'just like xyz except different'. mhm.

Right up there with the R-390A and R-390 non-A. Apparently the original R-390 that the later cost-reduced A model was based on never existed. It all started later.   :P

A coupla interesting things: early Command sets were black wrinkle like the ARA/ATA Navy versions. Cooler still, the later ARC-5 transmitters use a plate modulation scheme vs grid modulation for the Command transmitters. I like the Navy models. Mike's Flight Deck page has the best collection of that gear you'll ever see.

No doubt early versions of the P-51 had the Command gear in them to start with.

Looking forward to seeing Red Tails soon. Somewhere in the vast archives of 'stuff' (junk) I have an unassembled 1/24 scale P-51 model, left over from my misspent youth, in a Red Tail cover scheme.

Navy had the Corsair with folding wings later in the war. Then there was the P38

The Navy Hellcat F6F had a better kill record ;D

And there was the (in)famous Brewster F2A Buffalo, about which the Marine air commander at Midway said, "any commander who sends a pilot on a combat mission in a Brewster Buffalo should consider that pilot as lost before he leaves the ground". Not really one of the great fighters of the time.

"  Brewster F2A Buffalo "

Forget about the airframe for a minute.   

A classic "What were they thinking?" moment. Name your fighter plane after an almost extinct, lumbering animal.....


klc

I got dizzy and had to close the computer 8)

I did some research on line and it turns out that this airplane wasn't all that bad. The web is always correct :P :P :P

One article on it that I read said that "Pappy" Boyington praised the handling of the first model -- "it'll roll and turn in a phone booth". The ones at Midway were weighed down with more fuel and ammo and were no match at all for the Zeros.

The Luftwaffe thought they were great. They shot enough of them out of the sky early in the war. One was recently recovered from a Finnish lake in a remarkable state of preservation.

I'm not sure anything we fielded at all during the war was a match one on one with the zero. Maybe the P38. The zeros were light, fast, and very very agile. At the expense of durability and systems redundancy. If you could hit them, they apparently came apart pretty easily, but getting in a position to do that was the problem.

After one was recovered from Alaska mostly intact (pilot apparently ran it dry and deadsticked into the snow, flipped and broke his neck but the airplane was not much damaged), they had a chance to fly it against the current and prototype fighters and get a better feel for it's strength and weaknesses and design tactics to deal with it.

Our fighters were heavy and fast and had big engines and decent wings that didn't bleed too much energy making lift so they developed tactics like "Boom and zoom". Out climb the zeros to altitude, dive on them and make a slashing pass with heavy guns on the way through, and blow through them and outdive and outrun them till you were clear, climb to altitude, rinse and repeat. Getting in a turning fight with them was apparently a loser.

My family and friends who lived through that fight told many stories. The theme that kept coming through was that we didn't win because we were bigger, meaner, or better than the Japanese - despite the courage of our soldiers and airmen. We won because we could build airplanes faster than they could shoot them out of the air.

The Brewster's problem wasn't that it was a good fighter in its time, it was more that its time had passed. Aircraft technology was advancing by leaps and bounds then. It was more in the category of the Russian Polikarpov I-16, though the Finns shot a lot of those down with the Buffalo.

The Zero gained range and maneuverability at the expense of overall strength, armor, and self-sealing tanks. The F4F Wildcat was the only aircraft of numbers that had trouble with it, requiring the 'pounce & run' tactics, though the Thatch Weave helped out when they were forced into dogfights. The later F6F, Corsair and others had little problem with the Zero. 

Talk about a "flying milk jug"  ;D

Al

I liked the flying beer barrel, the P47. Apparently those things could dive like a wet safe! The first indications of the 'sound barrier' were experienced by P47 pilots in long dives when they would experience control reversal. Can you imagine diving down and as the ground approached at 500 mph plus and discovering that pulling up made the nose tuck *down*!   :o  Talk about pucker factor.

My mom actually saw one of the early P47 prototypes crash near her home in Long Island during the war. The engine apparently ripped lose from the mounts in a turn due to gyroscopic forces and the plane and pilot ended up burying themselves in a golf course. She said kids in the neighborhood had pieces of the plane that the Feds came around an collected from everybody after the crash.

If you like the "Jug", find a copy of "Thunderbolt" by Robert Johnson. Great book by a guy who flew 'em. Fun story in there about his first flight after they changed to the paddle props.

So the new issue of Air & Space, March 2012, has a big story about the
remaining 10 B-17's flying in the US.
"Experiences" to find out what it was like to fly in one is about $500 for
30 minutes. I just was thinking, for a ham, this would be a better investment
in my $500 if they had an authentic station on board to operate.
Think about that for a stocking stuffer! What would a couple of AM/CW
QSO's on a vintage warbird be worth?
73
Steve
w8tow

Somewhere I have pictures of the Collings Foundation's B-17G Nine-O-Nine and their B-24 which was painted as the All American in the early 90s, just after completion of the restoration. Both aircraft have stations in them, though the B-17 was lacking cabling. The B-24 was complete so far as I recall, not sure if it was hooked up for operation.

One thing I can say from experience: you're sure not going to hear much without a headset tightly affixed to your ears. I carried a 2m HT with me and once all 4 engines were wound up, there's not much else to be heard. The movies you see with pilots and crew talking in a slightly raised voice just aren't accurate.

It's definitely something I'd strongly recommend for anyone who is a true aircraft buff. Buzzing the runway 30-40 feet off the ground with throttles open, engines bellowing, then pulling up and banking away can't be explained in words, particularly when the negative Gs kick in.

I like this Coilings much better.

http://www.collingsguitars.com/Instruments/?ID=25

They say (the mythical 'they') that you only regret the things you didn't do. While that doesn't apply to ex-wives, it certainly applies to the B-25 ride I didn't get. After a 3 B-25 low fly-by at an air show at Rialto (CA) about '92, I was talking to one of the crews after they'd landed.

"What do you have to do," sez I, "to get to ride in this bird?"

"Come by and help us polish on it sometime," was the answer.

I never got back to the airport on a weekend to help the guys polish that Mitchell, and I sure wish I had. All the rides being offered are now $400/hr or so. I shoulda...

I scored a ride in a B-25J that was visiting the St. Paul MN downtown airport for an airshow - $25 back in 1983.  Best money I ever spent.  I think they charged $50 if you wanted to ride in the nose, but the 4 or 5 of us aboard took turns at the tail gunner's position.  Every small motion of the aircraft is amplified back there - I can't imagine being cooped up there, looking for enemy aircraft and knowing it's me or them.  WWII vets are truly the greatest generation.

To this day the B-25 is one of my favorite airplanes.  The Tokyo Raid of April 1942 underscores the heroism of both the men and the machines.

The Mitchell is my favorite airplane of all time. I got to crawl through "Miss Mitchell" when she was on static display at CAF HQ in Midland TX. I have some great pix of me in the left seat. I l crawled back to the tail gunner position, and even on the ground you can feel a bit of the vulnerability the guys experienced back there. Great airplane, and nothing sounds better than those Cyclones.

Prior to the Mustang, existing fighters all had to turn back somewhere around Aachen and let the bombers go it alone over Germany.  Luftwaffe would hang back for the shooting match.  Losses were so high in 1944 that the legendary 8th AF was stood down to develop better tactics.  When the Mustang was introduced, they could escort bombers in all the way and make daylight precision raids less costly.  I read somewhere that when Goering looked up in the sky over Berlin and saw a fighter with the telltale star on its wing--he remarked, "the war is lost." 

Not sure about fighter guys but think the bomber pilots really loved em! 

Gonna send link to some pilot bubbas--they'll love it!  Thanks for the read!

Best 73's
Geo W8VG/6

By 1944 most of the high command knew the war was lost.

Back when I hung out in the tower at Hancock Int'l Airport I knew an ATC guy who flew the Brewster 2A Buffalo during early WW-2.  He called it "10,000 rivits in close formation".  He also claimed it had some "real nasty" stall character
Also claimed it had some "real nasty" stall characteristics.  :P

Ken - K2UPI

Ur probably right--unfortunately they hadn't worked up the nerve to tell "Herr Meyer" or his boss  :)

Mustang:  Cadillac of the Sky!