The AM Forum

Does anyone else find the sight and especially the sound of a 4 engine propeller driven aircraft to be a beautiful thing like I do?

Every Memorial Day weekend (beginning today) there's an air show at nearby Republic Airport in Farmingdale, New York.

Since I live within 5 miles of the event and they take paying passengers up for rides, I see these beautiful aircraft flying overhead on these special occasions.

To me there is nothing like the sound and sight of these planes.  Today, for the first time I saw a B-29.  I think there are very few examples still flying.  In other years there have been B-17s and the twin-engined B-25. 

I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s when 4 engine propeller aircraft were very common.  Then they slowly disappeared, replaced by the jets.  I think of the large propeller driven craft to be akin to our boat-anchor tube type radios. 

It's nice to see and hear these magnificent aircraft even if only a few times a year.  I stop what I'm doing and watch it fly until it's gone from view.

Those radial engines have a distinctive sound all their own.

Eric

"Does anyone else find the sight and especially the sound of a 4 engine propeller driven aircraft to be a beautiful thing like I do?"

I do!  In the 70's the Confederate Ghost Squadron used to be a staple of the airshows in the south and they flew B-17's and a host of other WWII aircraft including P-51s, F4Us and even P-38s.  I'm not sure if the Zero's were real but they at least had some mock ups and they would also put on mock dogfights.  I sure miss those airshows!

I find them "pretty" to watch but make much, too much, ear splitting noise.

Aw Pete, you must have wimpy ears! ;)

Besides, none of the old planes even come close to a Harrier or F-16 in terms of noise.

Spend a day at the Yuma, AZ hamfest and 'feel' the price of freedom going over your head all day long.  It can literally rattle tubes from their sockets!

73DG

Love em! A cple of weeks ago one of the Air Forces surviving C-54 "Berlin Airlifters" flew into the Winchester Airport wich ment she had to go right over work. Awsome!

The C-54 civilian version was the DC-4.  That was the only plane I've ever flown in... in 1960. 

After I posted, a friend of mine emailed photos he had taken at the show today of the B-29.  It's the only surviving airworthy B-29 named "Fifi". 

Photos by Don Huber, WB2UKA

The distinctive sound of even one 'round' engine is enough to get my attention and have a look skyward ... pretty much guaranteed there's something interesting attached to it  ;)

Jay said:
You might not have to look skywards sometimes...... ;)

If I read this right, "FiFi" will be making an appearance next weekend at the Reading Airport's WW2 Weekend...
http://www.maam.org/wwii/ww2_acft.htm

Event includes some rather special guests...
http://www.maam.org/wwii/ww2_guests.htm

Ott

DC-3 has that sound from its radial engines too.

Only two of them, but hey ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnSClrWPb-s&feature=mh_lolz&list=FLYf5YX2slT4M

Scroll up to around TRT 1:40 for the rollout and takeoff.

I can't imagine what 130 octane aviation gas sell for these days.

Bill the 100HL is long gone, that's probably what you're thinking of. Octane at takeoff came in at around 130 (set to rich).

What's left is 100LL.  When I fly (right seat) it's been closing in on $6, not quite there yet, and surprisingly not as high as the amount of jump seen in street gas.  

I'm about to drop the boat in the water. Dock gas.  Now THAT's another price tag altogether.  If you get the good stuph, it won't have any ethanol in it (water being not good in the boat gas tank). Per gallon, I don't yet know the price, but they always blame limited production volume and delivery costs.

It may mean lots of time at anchor this summer. I often just trailer to a gas station...

The Constellation or C-121 was the main passenger plane before the jet airliners.  It has four radial engines.   

I love the radials and other piston aircraft. The oldest thing I ever flew on was a turboprop airliner. It was pretty quiet.

Sun-Sky Air used to run a Constellation route between Phoenix-Yuma-LA.  I got to fly in it a few times back in the 80's.  The best part was once standing outside while it started up an engine, with the commensurate cloud of smoke and belching before it smoothed out. :D

73DG

Mike ... tnx radial engine motorcycle pix ... impressive! 

Consider myself lucky to have logged stick time in a T6 and a Stearman 4D 'Jr. Speedmail' (that was actually used to deliver mail earlier in life)  ... in trade for electrical system work on the a/c.

Always make sure the 'drip pan' is in place before leaving the hangar  ;)

Ive always been a radial fan and down the hill here there is a family that restores a lot of the old biplanes and such.

The strangest piston engine sound Ive heard was when a squadron of B-36's went right over my house down in Valley Stream, NY sometime in the early to mid 50's. It was mesmerizing and still gives me goose bumps.

Carl

I love those radials and frankly any of the prop warbirds. Having flown in an SN-J, B-17, and B-25 I can tell you that the B-25 is the loudest by far requiring even the passengers to wear ear protection. I was a member of the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum for a number of years and the wife and I participated in the WWII Weekend in uniform for several years. If you've never been to the show you really should see it at least once.

Larry

When my two sons Dave and Ben were young, the Collings Foundation B-24 "All-American" came to Quonset Point NAS just after completing it's restoration.  We took the tour and naturally, one of the highlights for them was "manning" the 50 cal machine guns in the waist.  We saw the B-24 along with the Collings B-17 Nine-O-Nine a few more times over the years in the fall when they would fly into the Groton Airport.  Was always great hearing those two planes taking off and landing in the area.  In the fall of 2002, Dave, now a college grad, and a helo aircraft electrician at the 1109th AVCRAD, CT ARNG at the Groton Airport, helped out in troubleshooting and fixing a bad 28V  generator's voltage regulator on one of the B-24's engines while the Collings planes was there the same weekend as his monthly drill.  Afterward, Dave and his buddy who worked on the regulator got taken up on a check ride and they took a few pictures there.  One was Dave "manning" a waist gun just like when he was a kid...I have pictures from the original visit of him as a kid to Quonset in the same pose somewhere..will have to dig it out and match it up with the later one.

Several months later, Dave, his buddy and the rest of the AVCRAD were sitting in bunkers with SCUDSs flying over them in Kuwait during the opening days of OIF.  Luckily, they all came back in early 2004 before things got really nasty.

As we enjoy our long weekend, let's not forget what price was paid by those whose day it really is on Monday...

As popular as the Constellation was, total production numbers of the other American made 4 engine radial passenger planes exceeded it.

Lockheed Constellation produced 1943-1958 = 856
Douglas DC-4/C-54 produced 1942-1947 = 1174
Douglas DC-6 produced 1946-1958 = 704
Douglas DC-7 produced 1953-1958 = 338
Boeing 377 Stratocruiser produced 1947-1958 = 56

Total numbers = 3128
The Lockheed Constellation accounted for just over 27% of the total in that era.

The majority of the civilian DC-4s were converted from C-54s that were sold off as surplus by the US military after WWII.  Only 79 were built from scratch as civilian craft.

Eric

About three weeks ago I found that FiFi lives in my backyard. It and the C.A.F. B24 are stationed at Addison airport. Addison is on the north edge of Dallas. I called about a visit and was told they had just left on Wednesday for New Orleans and would begone all summer to air shows around the country. I was told to check back in the fall.  :( :(

Mike

Glen Curtis, father of aviation in the USA was also into motorcycles and you can see some of his work in Hammondsport NY in the Curtis museum. I got to see this V8 that he set the land speed record with in 1907. I visited for a "wine tour" of the finger lakes and found this amazing museum.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Nz13SosIM

Are radial engines still manufactured, or are mechanics relying on surplus stock?

W1AC

Why does it cost so much? Is it all taxes, or is there some special blend?

W1AC, who is thinking about buying a boat.

When I was a kid (long time ago), we lived within a couple miles of Norton AFB in CA. I grew up hearing and seeing B-17s, B-25s, B-29s and many other radial engine birds fly over. I love piston engine sounds in general, but radials are the best. And the B-25 is my favorite plane of all time. Haven't gotten to fly on one yet, but did get to go through "Miss Mitchell" when she was on display at CAF HQ several years ago. Some about the left seat felt very natural ;-)

To all veterans, and all currently serving, my sincere gratitude. Thank you.

Eric,
I heard the ads on 880 AM yesterday. I bet that was very cool. My Dad had a Radial in his outside test stand. They used it to generate cross winds across the front of a jet engine inlet to try and make it stall. Very cool motors and not as loud as some of the APU's I have heard.

Not sure if you guys get it down there but History Channel Canada carries a show called Ice Pilots NWT and profiles Buffalo Airways out of Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories. "Buffalo" Joe and his crew fly DC-3, DC-4, and C-46's everyday to supply far northern communities. His newest work aircraft is a 1950's Lockheed Electra turbo-prop. I love the sound of an old piston pounder on start-up. If you guys get it tune in,it's a great show.

http://www.icepilots.com/show.php (http://www.icepilots.com/show.php)

I'll never forget the deep rumbling sound of a B36 as it passed overhead back when I was a kid.  I had the thrill of going through one at Loring AFB when I was at camp as a CAP kid. An unforgetable experience

Now that was a big bird

Al

With six engines, that must've sounded impressive! Unfortunately, I've never seen one except in photos.  See photo of it in comparison to the B-29.  

Eric

  There was a squadron stationed nearby at Willow Run or Selfridge when I was a kid. The rearward facing engines were unique even to a 5 year old neophyte kid. The rumble of multiple engines always found the kids of the neighborhood in awe struck skyward gazes. Unlike the "so what ?" jaded attitude that prevails today.

The later versions had 2 jet pods with 2 engines each in addition to the 6 R-4360s.  Hence the moniker "Six turnin' and 4 burnin'".

When I was a kid I remember seeing the B-36 airplanes flying to the west from my vantage point in NE PA. I could see the contrails but I can't remember if they had any jet engines on them. I think they may have been flying to the Air Force base in Syracuse, NY. That was around 1953.

Some fellow had a B-36 on his farm in Ohio or PA, can't remember which. He bought it along with many other surplus aircraft over the years and towed them to his land, in pieces. Inside the B-36 was stored a P-38 along with another aircraft, P-51 perhaps. He had a bunch of planes along the edge of the woods, too. He passed away in the last few years, never heard what became of the collection. The movie Strategic Air Command with Jimmy Stewart has some excellent footage of the Flying Cigar, including some great aerial shots. B-47, too.


There should be another flying example out there soon, if not already, Eric. 'Doc' is being rebuilt to flying condition by Boeing's Witchita plant over the last few years. It's been a while since I checked, but it should be done by now. Pretty sure it was the last one pulled out of China Lake. Kermit Weeks also has/had one that was scheduled to be rebuilt, and another that escapes me now. Then there was the Kee Bird. Great documentary, very sad story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kee_Bird

The first time I ever flew in a plane was across the Atlantic in a Rolls-Royce "jet prop".  Don't know if that's the same thing as a turbo-prop, but I recall it had propellers  but jet exhaust came out the rear of each engine. The flight from New York to Luxembourg took 11 hours.

I flew in a commuter airliner DC-3 in East Africa once. The only thing I have ever flown in CONUS is a jetliner, except a couple of times in small private single-engine aircraft. That DC-3 flight was wild and exciting. I enjoy old buzzard industrial technology, but it does make one appreciate 21st century technology as well. I wish there still more DC-3s in commercial use. They have to be the BC-610s of commuter aircraft, and some claim they're one of the most stable and safest aeroplanes ever produced.

I recently visited San Francisco, and loved riding the cable cars, preferring to stand on the running board and hang on to the vertical rod, to elbowing my way inside to a seat. Also visited the cable car museum, where you can watch the mechanics of the one remaining power station in operation. The entire system was originally 100% mechanical, driven by steam engines, with gas lights on the cars. Now, geared down electric motors drive the cables, and storage batteries on board run the lights. I find the cable cars sort of reminiscent of ham radio AM. At one time, they were the primary source of public transport throughout the city.  Now, only a small fraction are still in operation, just three short lines (and one of those is currently down for maintenance), but the ones still in existence are highly appreciated and have their die-hard enthusiasts. There used to be cable car systems in many major cities in the US and abroad, but now, the one in San Francisco is probably the only one still in operation anywhere in the world.

We lost one today...luckily  all 7 on board walked away.....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-crews-responding-to-incident-involving-wwii-bomber-20110613,0,5852034.story

DC sixes  fly over my house here in Naknek every day this time of year....On approach to King Salmon airport...Northern Air Cargo and Everts Air Haul are still flying those old girls.....Interesting sound after take off until the pilot gets all 4 engines syncronised.....They are hauling freight , fuel and fish in the frozen north....

""
The pilot managed to set the plane down in a gap between a relay tower about 60 to 70 feet high and a line of trees 25 to 30 feet high -- around 500 yards from his home. "He did a great job," Barry said.  ""