The AM Forum

No idea which thread it was, but I had mentioned replacing my old 70s-era 'fridge a couple months back and Frank 'GFZ remarked that I'd be surprised at my power bill.

I am! Didn't want to mention it without a couple of months data to back it up, but what a HUGE difference! My monthly bill was $54-$62 on average. The last two months were $34 and change, and this includes home cooling fans running and a large compressor for the house paint sprayer.

Still amazed that changing out one appliance could make such a remarkable difference. Now I can run the transmitter 24/7. ;)

Must be that 50 KW broadcast rig in the basement. :o ;D

73,  Jack, W9GT

Todd,
When our bill went down a light co guy knocked on the door and asked what happened. We just got rid of the water bed last year. We did about $85 last month but the AC was running a lot. Beach place was about $50 with electric hot water heater.

Since that last thread, we were given an electric clothes dryer... not ancient, but not new....

We've been using it for a couple months now.... when the WX dictates no outside drying...

Maybe 4 loads a week, on lowest heated setting...

E bill went from under $50/mo. to over $80.

I suppose the convenience is worth it.....

It's amazing how quick a pile of clothes gets big with an 8 month old, a 5 year old, and a couple of adults when we get a 3 or more day stretch of wet WX.

Naknek Alaska....July 2007 .....1206 KWH @ $.335 = $404.  Our electric plant is powered by diesel...Never use AC ..Hi temp for July 69 deg F.   I'm getting ready to go to Tum Tum for the winter but I think I will stay here for a while longer....too hot there right now.....

our dryer is 17 years old and needs to be replaced. sounds like an old concrete mixer. We plan to get a new one when the kids go back to school. we have a good long clothes line and sometimes the xyl can fill it twice in a day. It will hole 2 loads of wash. I'm thinking of a way to extract all the heat going outside to heat the basement.

Well Frank, I'm still very impressed that updating one appliance can make such a big difference.

If my bill seems low, it's because I currently live alone, don't watch much TV, or spend time at home on the computer. My dryer is also electric, but only gets used once per week for a load or two. The furnace is probably the next biggest offender, since it heats the hot water in addition to heating the house in winter. Oil-fed, but heating oil was around 74.9¢/gal. when I bought the place in '94.

Steve, a friend of mine out in Hood River told me it was cold there this morning. 'Cold' compared to the high temps they've recently had, perhaps? Won't be long now until the autumn cool down begins.

The month of july wus kinda comfortable around here, but the beginning of August has been hotter than the gates of hell itself. Yesterdays recorded high for the Baltimore area was 102 deg actual temp at BWI airport. Partz of the city were reporting actual temp of 106!! Yowsa, Yowsa, Yowsa!!

My 2 ton window shaker has been gettion a workout lately, and has not been shut off since sometime last week. With our new 50% increase on our lectrick bills, I'm dreading this one coming up!

All I can say is "Bend over Buckwheat, this one's gonna hurt!!"

                                                  The Slab Bacon

Yeah Slab, that's one of the fears I have about moving to Florida. The house we found has a big cube in the backyard with a fan on the inside top, says 'Amana' on the side. Looks like it could suck the life outta every piece of radio gear I own.  :o

Trade off, I s'pose. Electricity vs. Heating oil.

The concrete and asphalt jungles seem to create their own climate to some extent. 'Heat Island' effect of something like that.

Todd, you will make up for the pain when winter comes.

Ah Yes Electricity cost!
In my all electric house this is a very sensitive issue.
However I recently saw that my last electric bill was $148.47 and for the same
period last year it was $231.52.
What do I attribute this to. Both my kids have moved out!
Last week I installed a new super duper micro processor controlled hot water heater that is
95% efficient and has a "smart energy saver" mode and 3 inches of insulation.
Next month when I get my electric bill I'll let you know if it saved me any money.
My last January bill was $651. Be curious to see what it goes down to this coming January
with all the unused rooms shut down that the kids used.
Regards
Q, W1QWT

Todd, change the refrigerator now.  If you open the door a lot for a beer, the cost of electricity is huge.  As a matter of fact, any old appliances should be upgraded. 

We have a 15.2 SEER heat pump here in S. Oklahoma and, even my wife who is not mechanically inclined, noticed the size of the compressor.  2100 sq. ft. with skylights in three rooms, all electric with my AM stuff that runs as much as I have time only cost about 150.00 last month.

Electricity is much cleaner than oil anyway.

Years ago I calculated that running a kw DC input on AM, and  doing a typical amount of operating every day, would cost only a few dollars a month.
 
Let's say your transmitter draws on average 3 kw from the mains while you transmit.  Let's also say you are above average in amateur activity, and operate about 3 hours per day.  In that case, you probably actually key-down transmit no more than one hour per day.  That makes 3 kWh per day, or about 90 kWh per month.

If your electric rate is 10¢ per kWh, that would make your electric bill for operating your transmitter $9.00 per month.  Our residential power rates here are 7.413¢ per kWh for the first 1000 kWh, and then it drops to 6.838¢ per kWh after that.  So my power bill for transmitting would be less than $6.70 per month.

Now adjust those figures for the amount of over-the-air activity you do, and the power rate from your local utility.  It's pretty easy to estimate what your transmitter contributes to your monthly electric bill.  At most, probably about the same as one cinema ticket.

Now compare the amount of entertainment or enjoyment you get from a month of AM hamming vs what you would get from sitting through one movie.

Pretty cheap entertainment, eh?

Q does the water heater turn off at night when you are sleeping. I was thinking of adding an industrial timer to my new one. We do about 725 gallons of oil a year so that is close to $2K so electric doesn't look so bad.it is all about insulation these days. fc

That was actually the point of the post, Jim: the old fridge crapped out a couple months back and was replaced with a newer (year or two old) model. Hence the much lower electricity bills. I was reluctant to credit the new appliance until seeing at least two bills.

It sure is cheap and chintzy compared to the old one, but I was in a pinch and needed something fast.

Depends how the electricity is generated I suppose. A lot of generating plants still use oil or coal. Either way Frank is right: I'll make up for the saving when winter arrives, if the house hasn't sold by then.

If I remember correctly it keeps track of your hot water usage (somehow) and when it thinks
it is in a period when it won't be used it backs the temp down about 10 degrees colder than
you set it for.

Here is the add for it:
It is a Whirlpool electric water heater with a 12 year guarantee.

Regards Q

I bought a standard 12 year GE so it will stay there for a while.
Sounds like I should add some more insulation around it. I have it set for just under 120 degrees and a short run to the tub. I was thinking of adding one of those timers to turn it off during the night. Yours looks pretty smart. I bet it costs some bucks. I think i paid around $300 a couple years ago. My neighbor across the street just replaced his again 50 gallon. I think he paid around $330 for a standard one but the same brand as yours.   

$329 at Lowes. 50 gallons.
My brother in law, a plumber, helped me put it in. I had to add a 240 volt disconnect cause I didn't have one there at the heater.
I saved a boat load doing it myself. I had two quotes from local plumbers who wanted $1200 and the heater they were going to provide only had a 9 year guarantee.
Getting the old one out was tough cause it was a stone lined tank and weighed a lot.

Q

WOW great deal. I put trex under my heater to get it off the concrete floor heat sink.

The best way to go is with a demand type water heater.  No energy wasted storing 50 gallons or more of water and keeping it hot when no-one is using it. 

I was going to replace my electric one with a demand type gas unit, but the cost of running the extra propane line and installing the vent pipe would have cost more than I would have save over the lifetime of the heater, plus the units themselves are overpriced.

They use them almost exclusively in Europe and as I recall, they are ventless.  Just a little rectangular box on the wall next to each appliance that uses hot water.

I have an Aquastar (by Bosch) on demand profane water heater....

I paid $399 at Homedepot...

Installed it myself, the gas guy ran the line to it... $50.

I put the required 5" exhaust pipe through the roof. that cost about $30.

If it was the only gas appliance I owned, I'd have a tank just for that....I love it.

I think between the gas stove, and the water heater, I pay around $65. per month for the profane....
That's at $4.15 per gallon of profane (I don't use enough of the stuff to get a good price, if I used twice as much per year, I'd save $1 a gallon)

Frank

Put a timer on my electric HWH about 6 months back. Turns on twice a day 5:30 - 9:30 AM and 6:00 - 8:00 PM. Saved ~ $15+/month.

Bought a P3 'Kill A Watt' plug in power usage monitor. Reads up to 1500 watts @ 120 VAC. Impressive unit at < $20 delivered (careful shopping). Digital readout of voltage, current, watts, VA, Hz, power factor and kwH. They claim 0.2% accuracy. Appears to be rf proof - used it to monitor the Class D transmitter the other night.

Checked everything in the house and got some surprises - especially with stuff turned off! Got no beef with what something draws when it's being used but 'off' is no longer 'off'. A few of the items:

15 year old Sony TV (off, but with fast warmup) -  85 watts!!!  (on) - 95 watts

Dell Monitor (sleep) - 15 watts

Bose radio (off) - 6 watts

HP printer (sleep) - 12 watts

Cordless phone (charging) - 5 watts

Stereo system components (sleep) - 16 watts

Cable modem/router/4 port switch (always on) - 18 watts

Mr. Coffee (on) - 1000 watts

HP 3586C SLM (unit off, crystal oven on) (had 2 plugged in) - 20 watts each

Symetrix 528/CRL PMC300A (on) - 25 watts (used to leave these on)

etc, etc.

Transformer type wall warts with nothing attached - small but measurable. Switching type wall warts with nothing connected - unmeasurable. Add it all up it's a couple hundred watts continuous draw! Back in the days of cheap electricity it didn't matter...

Monthly electric bills here now running  $225/month so we're putting power strips on the entertainment system, computer and ham radio setups so that off really is off. Some systems will get two power strips - an 'essential' bus and a 'non essential' bus. Power strips are dirt cheap.

Money saved will be plowed into IXDD414 drivers and 11N90 FETs for the next AM rig...running > 90% efficient...





   

The Kill A Watt meter: http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

I purchased one of those last year and got similar measurements.  I was amazed at what some things were drawing especially when they were "off".

I ended up putting timers on appliances and consumer electronics for when they're not being used. So a good drop in the e-bill.

That's why I've always chuckled when the Class E boyz get a big woodie and brag about the efficiency their transmitters and how much they save on electricity. Dream on.

Sorry for bringing this thread back to the top, BUT my wife and I are looking for an effecient refrig. Any special makes or models? We have a Sears '91 20 cu ft with ice maker and it runs and runs and runs. Some of the guys mentioned a tremndous savings in lectricity. Our central air conditioning condensor unit is next with a high SEER rating......Down the road, though.
Also we are looking at the Front Loading washers. I remember the Westinghouse my parents had in the early 50's. I know they save water, and do not tear up, wear out clothing like the top loaders. They are coming down in price around $678 for a G.E. 3.6 cu ft. (Are they trying to force metrics on us????) Any special makes and models for front loaders???
Thank you
Fred

Fred,

I'm a firm believer in the "Quality of Life" method of shopping for appliances: if the gadget improves the quality of my life, I don't care about energy costs. OTOH, if other things are equal, I'll pay extra for excellent energy efficiency.

The trick is to spend about an hour in the showroom, loading and unloading a gallon of water from each unit you're considering. Think about the tradeoffs of bottom freezer (less energy efficient, more convenience) vs. side-by-side (small space, great convenience), or top freezer (best energy efficiency, PITA to use). After you've decided which type of unit will cause you the fewest back problems, the fewest avalanches, and the least agravation, then shop for brand and finally for price.

Once you know which type you want, look at the Consumer Reports Frequency-of-repair records and pick the most reliable models. After that, use the energy stickers to compare the difference in energy costs between your top two or three choices.

Finally, negotiate between the dealers for the best price on a single brand and model.

YMMV. HTH. HAND.

Bill W1AC
P.S. If you can wait, you'll find the best bargains at bankruptcy sales: assuming you have the floor space, a commercial unit will last far longer than a consumer-grade unit, and you'll probably compensate for any energy cost by paying only pennies on the dollar. Be sure to research the units and view them first, and then take your shot.

$0.27 last month for combined gas and electricity.  The power my PV solar system generated offset all of the electric bill and all but 27 cents of the gas bill.   I'm not sure they were supposed to offset the gas bill but they did.   Next week they install the time of use meter.   The rates will be $.29/kWh during peak summer, noon to six, $.09 the rest of the time.   Since I mostly generate during peak and use during off-peak (talking to you jokers at night), I'll be even more ahead.   

Incidentally, the new SunPower (Xantrex aka Trace) 5 kW AC output inverter is EMI quiet.   I was prepared to install a big filter as others have done but it makes no noise that rises above the din of Silicon Valley crud. 

Jon

Thanks Bill,
We looked at the answers here and got a good solution to the energy thing. We found a nice Kenmore that uses less lectricity than a 100 watt light bulb and some info that a bottom freezer is the most efficient for energy. That will be a little PITA to bend over a little but it brings the refrigerator to eye level.
And we bought a Kenmore for the front loader with its, always been known efficiencies. The top loaders became popular because the older front loaders were hard to load and unload, but that's why you buy the pedastal. Brings the whole works up to a less PITA to load/unload.
A lot of good energy here on the AMFONE
Fred

Well I got my bill for August and it did go down!
I have two meters, one for hot water and the other for everything else so I'll just report the Hot water savings.
I found a bill from April when I used 395 KWH's which was the old water heater.

For August, which is the new high efficiency one I used only 151 KWH's!
Now granted some of that tremendous reduction was my daughter moving out but this electric bill is the lowest I have ever received for this all electric house.
I'm smiling now!
I guess it pays to update. The old water heater was a rental from the electric company!
HMM? Not that's interesting.

Regards
Q
W1QWT

We're loving our modern microprocessor controlled Kenmore front loader washer. Uses 6 gals of water and you have to stand next to it to hear it run. The small downside is that it can take 3 hrs to wash/sanitize the bay's clothes. A 'normal' wash would be up to 2 hrs, depending how you modify the settings. There is a quick wash that gets you closer to the top loader time of 40 min.
It's a huge change from the Westinghouse front loader I remember in the 50's. There is no visible water level and suds. You have to use the HE soap which is twice the price, but you only use about half the cap on the soap jug. The GUMMINT is going to mandate that manufacturers get their machines into saving energy and using less water....even the toploaders!!!
The new ref should be another step to crush the lectricity hold on my BA$$s. I can't worry about time involved for a return in investment. On a retirement salary, every increase of one thing or another that equals $100 hurts real bad. We just jump into these big ticket things with the buy now pay later (1yr.) The plan works for us.
Fred

wow,
I pay around $175 a month for electricity. between 11-12 cents kwh
They claim i use around 1000 kWh a month
I live alone (except for the dog, maybe hes having parties while i am at work)
I dont watch tv.
I am on the computer alot but i use flat panel lcd screens, not crt.
I dont leave lights on, not even outside lights.
Even when im on the radio i dont see too much of a difference (except when i run the toob linear)
think its time to update the fridge, dryer and water heater.
looking at my bill its about $114 plus $65 in "service charges"
wtf is a "delivery" charge, those wires have been running to the house for the last 60 years.
plus distribution charge, CTA charge, Transmission charge, Combined Public Benefit charge and FMCC charge.
ugh!  >:(

Blaine

Blame your legislators for the high price of electricity in CT.

They mandated that CL&P sell off all of their generating equipment and become just a delivery company. This was done on the notion that there would be vast energy supply competition and the price to the consumer would be lower. Wrong! When was the last time a new nuke or other generating plant was brought on line?

CL&P is forced to buy power on the open market. Gone are their generating plants that were either paid off or would have been paid off by now, any economy in overhead, personnel, etc. Now you've got multiple energy suppliers involved, with multiple overheads and multiple profit requirements that figure into your bill.

Just heard recently that the legislators are considering letting CL&P get into the generating business to reduce electricity costs - treating it like it's some new and novel idea! 

One thing's for sure...when the dumb asses in government get involved, hold onto your wallet.

Have you tried reading your meter and comparing it with what they indicate on the bill?

Try turning everything off in the house, and then turn on one thing at a time and see how that affects the rate of usage.  If you have one of the old fashioned electromechanical analogue meters, you can see how fast the little disc rotates.

A few months ago they replaced ours with a digital meter.  I have made it a point to regularly monitor usage, because the new meter seemed to indicate more usage than I thought reasonable.  But so far the monthly bill has been about the same as expected.

Geeeezzzz  Blaine !!!!

I think you've got something SERIOUSLY out of whack there !!!!

Your electric water heater, freezer and fridge have to go!!!

Never mind the actual cost of the power..... 1000kwh a month is serious usage for a one person houshold....

We have just installed an old ratty dryer that we use whenever hanging clothes outside is inconvenient.... an old freezer and fairly old fridge....

We DON't have an electric range OR waterheater though....

The absolute MOST usage we've had in 4 years is 515KwH......
There's 3 of us (well 4 now).....

You need to check and see which of those beasts are at fault....

I don't know a bout where you live... but here in Verminmont, if you go over 5ooKwH per month.... they slap on an extra charge .....

This is the first time my total usage is under 1000 KWH.
I am looking back at my bills and my highest month was last January at 3981 kWh.
My house is all electric so the heating part is astronomical in the winter.
Hopefully this winter it will be lower what with the kids gone.
I will just close up all the unused rooms.

Regards Q

Another Question 'bout lectricity Vs Nat Gas
This is the best place to get info on this stuff without pressure from sales people.
I would like to heat the basement area, which is less than half the size of our split level. A typical 1500-2000 sq foot house. The laundry area is the biggest room and there are two 8X10 rooms where the Flintstone studio is located and the Ham shack.
The cold Wx keeps me from going down there coz it's only 50 degrees F. We heat with a pellet stove and this is the disadvantage of turning off the central heat.
What could I use to heat this area? A small wall mounted nat gas heater with a blower? (Might heat the entire basement?) A 220volt basboard heater in each room? (These heat sources would only be on when I'm using either room)
The 110 volt ceramic heater was killing me$$$$$$ Plus it was discovered that these are very unsafe appliances.
Thanks
fred

I'm amazed at some of the costs some are incurring here.  The highest bill I ever had was $160 and that was two years ago when it was very cold and I was running a heater in my garage to help keep the upstairs bedroom floor warm.  My last bill with the central air running was $120.  My lowest is in the $70 to $80 range during spring and fall. Maybe my meter is broken.

Bob,
I wish we lived in your neck of the woods. Those are long lost memories of an electric bill under $100. A lot of people are getting the old weiner up the old waazoooo.

Fred