ANAN 100B, 100, and/or Flex 6300 for AM

[K4VA]

I am curious if anyone has used or worked one of these "low end" models for AM. Most of what I have read has been on the middle & upper models from both companies, but I'm curious what you give up for the lower price, as a primarily AM rig.

Thanks for any insight.

Allen

[n1eu]

I'm fairly certain you give up zero in terms of AM performance.

73, Barry N1EU

[WA2SQQ]

I'm pretty sure that N2DTS had one of the lower tier Anan's and sold it shortly after buying it. I also know of 2 people (WO2X and K3WKM) who bought the Anan's and eventually sold them for a Flex. They were great performers, but they discovered that if you are not fond of tweaking many parameters and installing frequent updates, it removed a lot of the enjoyment you normally get from a new radio. I also heard that Anan has decided to do some of the signal processing in your PC, which would require a more resourceful PC. Flex does all processing in the radio and uses a standard network connection. No powerhouse PC is required, as was the case with the Flex 3000 / 5000.

Flex, on the other hand, offered more "enjoyment". Its software supports DAX which eliminates any audio cables making interfacing digital modes very easy. I can attest to that. You can set up countless profiles for bands, modes or even audio preferences and switch between them with one mouse click. Flex's network connection makes remote operation rather easy using a VPN connection. They just released the Maestro control unit (full knobs / LCD) that will even allow you to remotely control the radio over a VPN connection despite the fact that Flex has not yet released this feature.

If you want access to many more advanced adjustments and are not opposed to frequent software and firmware updates, go Anan. If you are buying a radio to talk on the air and enjoy some of the most advanced SDR technology go Flex.  

[n1eu]

Sorry, but I have to diagree with a lot of this.  I've owned first an ANAN-10 and then an ANAN-100D, soon after they came out.  I currently own both an ANAN-100D and a Flex 6500.

All the ANANs use identical dsp software.  The AM is simply the same in all of them.

I'm sure the AM performance has evolved over the years, but it stabilized well over two years ago.  NO, you don't have to constantly tweak parameters.  I can see a Flex lover waging this criticism because SmartSDR seems to be based on NOT allowing parameter tweaking - you can't adjust many things you'd like to adjust.

Yes, Flex processes in the radio, not the pc.  But the reality of that Flex decision is that Flex is S-L-O-W to release bug fixes and enhancements.  Any fairly recent PC (e.g., i3 or better) will easily run PowerSDR for the ANAN with at most maybe 25% CPU utilization.

Sorry, but I find the radio "enjoyment" comments a bit out of left field.

Yes, the Flex DAX works quite well and they're definitely ahead of ANAN on that count.  But I actually find the ANAN profiles easier to use and preferable to the Flex profiling.

Simple things the Flex is sorely lacking:  no stacking band registers, no adaptive pre-distortion, and no ability to save a WAV recording of the rx audio.  Yes, you can play it back over the air but you can't even save or access the WAV file.

Yes, Flex is out ahead on WAN access.  I have little interest in this, although I have a Maestro on order to try it out as a better interface than mouse/pc.

As I said, they're both great AM radios.  But I honestly feel that the ANAN gives up absolutely nothing to the Flex.

[WB2EMS]

Several folks have talked about 'having to do all the updates'. Are they required? When I was running my Flex 5000, I got to a certain version of the code that did what I wanted, and the new versions would have required changing a few things in my setup, so I just didn't upgrade. I left it at version 2.5.3 I think, when there were two more revs to 2.7.2. No harm,no foul. It just kept working. I presume it would be the same with the software that runs the Anans. Heck, I have a pc that still runs XP. It's not on the net, and is used to run a specific task, so there's no need to have the latest and greatest software on it.

DAX sounds good, but haven't we been using Virtual Audio Cable (VAC) in that way for years successfully? I presume that's used to couple the audio together on the Anan. If not, that would be interesting to know.

I don't get the fascination with Maestro. I want to be able to run the radio, whichever flavor, remotely at times. But I think I'll want to do that on a tablet or laptop, or maybe from a phone if that can be managed. I don't get wanting to carry around a specialized piece of hardware that doesn't look all that small and portable to do it. Maybe if I had my hands on it it would make more sense.

[n1eu]

With the ANAN, I think you want to run the latest and greatest, but no you don't have to.  They are truly making some neat enhancements to it all the time.

The ANAN computing landscape is eventually (when?) going to change big time when they release the new Direct Fourier Conversion (gigabit) firmware/software.

[WA2SQQ]

I think I was a bit misunderstood. I think the Anan is a great radio, but it's definitely not a plug and play radio. I've heard this on the air from several people. For example ... taken directly from the owners manual...

"Each ANAN-10 owner needs to manually calibrate the Transmitter Power Output settings within PowerSDR™ to ensure proper operation. Some versions of PowerSDR™ offered an “Automatic Calibration”. Please do not use any automatic calibration routine. Manual calibration per band is the only recommend method at this time."
Calibrate a new radio?

At least in the beginning, I think the adaptive predistortion required constant adjusting, and it's not a plug and play feature when you are using an amplifier. Such requirements could easily intimidate someone who is new to SDR radios, and that's where my comments come from.

When I attended the Orlando Hamcation this year there were three hams in Flex's booth that were placing orders for Flex radios - all were former and / or present Anan owners. They all loved the Anan's performance but were somewhat frustrated with the initial setup. These were undoubtedly operators that were more of an appliance operator. Many of us who enjoy operating and restoring older legacy equipment may not be concerned with this. In the end, I think both are great radios, each having pros and cons when compared against each other.

[Steve - K4HX]

I don't see how b, c and d are accomplished buying a plug-and-play radio. So, even if the Anan required tons of set-up and such, it should not be a problem for anyone who is or wants to be an Amateur Radio operator. Those who are not prepared for such might want to consider stamp collecting. 


§97.1   Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

[WD5JKO]

  Good points Steve. I recall once looking for a Flex 3000 schematic, and a few people thought I was totally nuts. When I finally got one, I noticed there indeed was analog circuitry between the front mic jack and the A/D. Perhaps the term "Appliance Operator" only applies to rice boxes, and "Plug and Play" only applies to SDR radio's.  

   With the KE9NS mods to PowerSDR, limitations placed upon AM operation have been removed for the Flex 1500 and Flex 3000. Both can go to 10 Khz audio (20 Khz BW) like the 5000 always could. The AM Monitor feature has been turned on as well without ANY latency (pre-processed audio). A second hand 1500/3000 makes a decent AM exciter at reasonable prices.

Jim
Wd5JKO

[Steve - K4HX]

Kidding aside, different strokes for different folks. I understand that there ways other than what rig you purchase to accomplish b, c, and d. But hearing amateur ops complain that a radio is not plug-and-play just sounds wrong to my ears. I'll get over it. 

[K4VA]

Thanks for all the replies. It was not my intention to spark an ANAN-vs-Flex debate, but rather to gain insight as to whether the 100B (or 6300) were less suitable for AM than their 100D (or 6500) counterparts. Both brands obviously have operators demonstrating what the rigs are capable of on AM, but everything I've seen is with a 100D, 6500, or 6700. Unfortunately, I lack the understanding to determine if this is due to the higher-end models being more capable of transmitting and/or receiving in AM mode, or if the advanced features really only matter for other modes.

While my brain is inherently tends more "appliance operator", I don't mind a bit of a challenge... as long as there isn't something that could "brick" the radio.

73,

Allen

[W2NBC]

Good sounding AM is getting to be common place because of Flex and Anan. Both sound superb once properly set up.

Radio Service will never be quite the same.. or?
 
Yes indeed,  "The times they are a changing"..

[WA2SQQ]

Yes, I agree that this turned into more of a debate, but there were many relevant points made. Once in a while, this is good!

Steve, “plug and play” is very important when a manufacturer is trying to persuade legacy users of any product to adopt a new technology. It is all about making their user experience as good as it can be. It all begins with the user’s first impression, which is shared with fellow enthusiasts and eventually becomes a major factor in how well the market receives the product. If the customer’s first experience was not positive, they are likely to share it with up to eight times more people than if it were positive.
 
Ease of use is another factor, as any Apple product user can attest to. Their products are so intuitive to use that you usually don’t need an owner’s manual. Apple’s office in Cupertino is across the street from our research labs. While visiting I was talking with an Apple employee who told me that their goal is to design products that are “plug and play”, so the customer’s experience isn’t “plug and pray”.

Consider Icom’s new 7300, an SDR radio paired with a hardware control panel. It doesn’t have all the latest bells and whistles, but it performs very well. The simplistic user interface has removed the computer intimidation that many senior hams may have. It’s flying off the shelf and most dealers can’t keep them in stock. The customer purchases it and in minutes he’s on the air.

Introduce a new radio with a 300 page manual and a lengthy setup time and you’ve effectively alienated many customers.

Next topic!

[W7NGA]

AM is essentially dead. Yes, you'll hear AM on 75-meters and 15-meters whenever it decides to open, but in general .. a zone of deadness.
I'm thrilled to have a Collins 32V3 and Viking Ranger II, but realistically .. the SDR radios fair much better. My Flex 6500 simply rocks it.
But AM only exists at the margins ... much like using my Hassleblad's with Tri-X film.

Once upon a time .. sure, but now ...

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Introduce a new radio with a 300 page manual and a lengthy setup time and you’ve effectively alienated many customers.

Next topic!

Probably not a great comparison.

Apache User Guide is 67 pages.
Flex 6000 hardware and software manual total 229 pages
IC-7300 (2 user manuals) total 245 pages

[K4VA]

All the ANANs use identical dsp software.  The AM is simply the same in all of them.

Thanks, Barry. I had read about different boards, lack of filters, etc. in the 100B, but didn't know if it would affect AM functionality.

BTW- I really like the ANAN wiki site!

73,

Allen

[n1eu]

Actually, the growing migration toward SDR means folks suddenly have incredible effortless audio capabilities (except for Icom that is) and this bodes well for AM.

[WB4AIO]

AM is essentially dead. Yes, you'll hear AM on 75-meters and 15-meters whenever it decides to open, but in general .. a zone of deadness.
I'm thrilled to have a Collins 32V3 and Viking Ranger II, but realistically .. the SDR radios fair much better. My Flex 6500 simply rocks it.
But AM only exists at the margins ... much like using my Hassleblad's with Tri-X film.

Once upon a time .. sure, but now ...

That's definitely not true out here in the eastern part of North America. The AM windows on 160, 75, and 40 are so popular (and sometimes crowded) that AM operators have carved out some new territories to colonize. Many, many dozens of AM QSOs can be heard every day.

73,

Kevin, WB4AIO.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Many, many dozens of AM QSOs can be heard every day.

73,

Kevin, WB4AIO.

Wow! "Many, many dozens" that's a lot. What universe are you listening in? 

[WB4AIO]

Many, many dozens of AM QSOs can be heard every day.

73,

Kevin, WB4AIO.

Wow! "Many, many dozens" that's a lot. What universe are you listening in?  ::)

In an hour or so of casual listening yesterday morning, I tuned across simultaneous or near-simultaneous AM QSOs audible here in western Pennsylvania on 3665, 3695, 3725 (two QSOs, one right after another on this frequency), 3837, 3880, and 3885 (two QSOs here too, one after another). The same day in the afternoon, in just a simple five-minute band sweep, I heard three simultaneous QSOs on 7275, 7290, and 7295. Then in a similar sweep in the evening I heard AMers on 1885, 3873, 3880, and 3885. That's fifteen in well under two hours of total listening by just one person. I doubt that I heard even a quarter of the total AM QSOs I could have heard if I didn't have other things to do that day.

When I first became active in the 1970s, there were many predictions of the demise of the AM mode. That definitely hasn't happened, much to my delight. The SDRs and their excellent audio and AM performance are a factor in AM's current renaissance, I think.

73,

Kevin, WB4AIO.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Obviously, location is important for these "many many dozens of AM QSOs can be heard every day" and/or one has the time to count them all day long, but overall, I think AM activity is down from what I remember of activity back in the 90's and early 2000's especially on 160 and 75 meters. Back in the late 20th century you could find AM QSO’s stretching into the wee hours of morning almost every night. Weekends some might go all night. Today, generally by 11PM (EDT), it’s hard to find anyone on AM unless the conditions are great to work stations out to the west coast.

I seriously doubt the "renaissance of AM activity" had anything to do with SDR-type rigs which really didn’t hit the market until 2002/2003 with the intro of the SDR-1000 with PowerSDR software and adjunct hardware back then that could drive a sane amateur crazy. It took several years to sort all this out.

AM activity gained popularity back in the early 90's with the resurgence of many vintage rigs on the air. They were plentiful, they were cheap, they were generally easily fixable, and many seasoned amateurs could relive their youthful days of amateur radio. I find it hard to believe that many amateurs (you'll always have a few) are running out today and spending 2K+, 3K+, 7K+ dollars, etc. just because they want to feel a more wide-body AM experience. I suspect everyone’s perception of any amateur radio activity varies all over the place, along with as many reasons, so one believes what one believes.

[Steve - K4HX]

Not to pick a nit, but since we are - the comment was AM is dead. It is obviously is not. And that was the crux of Kevin's comment. It is an empirical fact. No belief required.

[WA2SQQ]

I think many new comers to the hobby are discovering AM, and others have decided to revisit it - similar to what's happening with vinyl and music.

Why we are seeing new places where AM activity is congregating might be due to the fact that AM activity often occupies significantly more band width. When band conditions are good, here in the NE, three QSO's can easily occupy the entire AM window on 75m. I'm wondering when / if bandwidth might become an issue?

[Steve - K4HX]

There was more AM activity in the past around 3885, and there was far more SSB activity on the band too. Yet AM thrived. I don't see how bandwidth would become an issue now with a far less crowded band.

Don't confine yourself to one frequency or a small range. There's tons of room lower in the band. The is no AM Window. It's a myth. Spin that VFO knob, or type in a different frequency.  Life is too short for windows.

[W7NGA]

It puzzles me .. on 80 and 40-meters there is a great deal of space lower in the band that AM'ers don't use.
Part of the problem is that most likely no one bothers to tune down there having never heard any AM activity.
I was hearing some AM on 7160, but the next day I heard SSB'ers railing against the inappropriateness of
using such an outdated bandwidth hog on 'their' band.
I wouldn't touch 17-meters AM unless wearing a flame suit and hiding the children first!

One of the beautiful things about SDR receivers is that I can set a panadapter to scan the entire band.
Any AM activity is readily apparent. Indeed, most of my 15-meter AM contacts are from stations with
panadapters that saw a huge spike up the band and tuned up to check it out. I have been the first AM
contact for many .. wanting to experiment with their Icom or Yaesu. The reality is that they usually
sound much better on SSB.

I love my Flex 6500 but AM sounds just a tad nicer on my R-390A @16khz.